Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

boomchek · February 2009

HAHAHAHA $700 including paint. Yeah maybe for one bumper cover.

I agree with others, I think it's $5k plus for repairs, not to mention a rip in the driver's seat, and now you're stuck with a high mileage Audi with accident history. I suspect this car wasn't cared for very well in general, so mechanical problems are bound to pop up too.

texases · February 2009

"With the pound depreciating as Europe experiences a financial disaster and future almost as bad as ours "

Yikes, $1.43 to the pound - I didn't realize it had dropped so much. The show's on the "HD network", HDT on my schedule. There are a couple of more car shows on it, too.

boomchek · February 2009

New W126: I'd say it's worth it to the right person

Fintail, why do I have a feeling that you are the right person and you'd be all over this car had it been stateside and you had the money to blow on it.

fintail · February 2009

If I had money to blow, garage space, and the car was local, I'd give it some serious thinking, I'll admit it. I'd try to work on the price as much as possible of course.

If it was a Diamond Blue loaded late 560SEL with an off white interior, it would be hard to resist. Or a nice color combo early car (1980 build date) with a full option load (ABS + airbag) it would be tempting for "milestone" value too. An as-new 300SD would be interesting too, the diesel nuts would drool over it.

fintail · February 2009

Sounds cool, I'll have to look around online for it. Thanks

edit: looks like it's all over youtube too...might be a good way to spend some time

boomchek · February 2009

Once in a while I see a local 89 (last year?) 560 SEL for sale in good shape, so I know what you mean by it being tempting especially if it's in the sub $5k range.

Mr_Shiftright · February 2009

I just can't imagine anyone standing around looking an a 1983 Benz 4 door sedan, because it's too "newish" to look different to the modern eye, and not old enough or rare enough to collect. It's the fact that it is NEW that's interesting, not that it's an ordinary 1983 Benz.

So really you could buy any 1983 "new car" and get the same experience.

As someone said, you can buy a killer of a 560SEL right now, clean as clean can be, for way less than half the price of the "new" 280, and you'll have a much more interesting automobile that you can actually drive around.

I bought a 560SEL a few years ago for $1500 that ran very well. Had a dent, a few trim pieces hanging off, but I think, had I cared to, I could have spiffed it all up for another $1500--$2000. As it was I flipped it for a small profit.

fintail · February 2009

The last official year was 1991, but I know in the UK some seem to have escaped being classified as that year, and are registered as 1992 cars.

A few years ago on ebay there was a beautiful 50K mile 1989 560SEL in perfect colors, it brought around $11K IIRC.

These cars look good with monoblocks, too.

fintail · February 2009

I'd rather have a 1983 W126 with 900 miles on it than a 1983 K-Car with 900 miles on it :P

Yeah, the real drawback with that car is that if you drive it, you destroy what makes it special. The cars were very well-made and overengineered, and are not uncommon sights on the road even after nearly 30 years.

Mr_Shiftright · February 2009

Well that was a few years ago....the 560SEL is depreciating like a rock off a bridge, and will continue to do so. Probably these cars will bottom out around $3,500 bucks.

Well of course we'd rather have a "new" 280SE than a K car but I'm afraid they would be equal in interest to most people at a car show--or non-interest.

Don't mean to rain on anyone's parade--I'm just sayin' that if a buyer thinks people are going to go gah-gah over a "new" 1983 Benz sedan, there going to be a disappointment in the reality of it.

Paying a premium price for a "new" version of this car just strikes me as ridiculous, as the car is useless unless you drive it, and if you drive it, go buy a nice low miles one for 1/3 the price.

fintail · February 2009

Yeah I know...and beaters will bottom out even lower than that - and with no price increase in sight. If 40 year old W108s aren't being embraced, later cars will not find much love either. You still can't give a W116 away.

A few people might go ga-ga over a brand new W126...but those people won't be at the local show and shine intended for fiberglass 32 Fords and modified Chevelles.

Maybe a MB museum would want it, but I am sure they have some with even less miles and higher options.

gsemike · February 2009

Restoration??? Don't talk to me about restoration!!!!

lemko · February 2009

Heck, I still wouldn't mind having a 1986-91 420SEL or 560SEL in excellent condition. Hard to find one that isn't all miled-up.

lemko · February 2009

That hulk belongs on an artillery range.

Mr_Shiftright · February 2009

I think it's a joke.

qbrozen · February 2009

That hulk belongs on an artillery range.

Looks like that's where it just came from.

boomchek · February 2009

"Glass is inact"

Yeah.....that makes it worth more even though you can't see anything through it! :lemon:

I also have a feeling it would be a death sentence working on this car, scraping off all the burnt crust, inhaling the lethal residue.....

This car should be condemned.

fintail · February 2009

That'll buff right out, no problem

fintail · February 2009

And even some of the lower mileage ones have been neglected. The cars can take a lot of abuse, and some of them really show it.

fezo · February 2009

Check in with Andre. He might need another project....

He needs something to keep the DeSoto on the back burner. OK, maybe burner isn't the best choice of words...

Mr_Shiftright · February 2009

yeah maybe we can fire him up...er...inspire him...to do something. :P

gsemike · February 2009

Good sense of humor

Get the feeling that this wasn't adult owned

Looks really nice and fairly priced

gas saver

Rare but does anyone care?

Luxury for a grand

This is more like it

Call the wrecker

For this one too

Most likely only for parts

Any carpet installer out there?

Not worth the ask given the work needed

Not luxurious

Mr_Shiftright · February 2009

77 Trans Am -- shocking as it might seem, they do have some collector value.

85 Eldo-- a little cheap but not too far off the actual book value. Book says $2,500 is all the money. I'd agree. Give it a good look-over, even at $1,000 bucks. Might be a good buy.

84 Cadillac Biarritz-- $4650 is about retail book for a "clean driver". Wear a rubber nose and glasses and maybe no one will recognize you. What a strange looking car. What's going on with the right front bumper? And why does the dashboard look like those old hi-fi units you see in thrift stores? Oy vey.

1995 Blazer -- "hit in right front". That's a very middle-left kind of right front isn't it? Either LIE and don't post a photo, or post a photo and say nothing--LOL!

68 Mustang 6 shabby coupe --- Please, please. Enough's enough. Put the thing out of its misery.

01 Cadillac Catera -- may god have mercy on your soul....gulp....

2003 Camry -- might be fixable but why bother? I haven't heard about a "used Camry shortage".

gsemike · February 2009

Maybe if the Camry was a 20k mile V6 car but it looks like a garden variety 4 cyl. With average miles and no damage, it's worht 9 or 10 grand

qbrozen · February 2009

That Chevy Sprint looks well preserved ... which makes me wonder about the mental state of the owner.

guss · February 2009

It's funny how time has a way of getting by you. My first thought on the '85 Eldorado was that some high school kid should pick that up and have a really neat Cadillac for next to nothing.

But then I did the math, if in 1980 when I graduated someone had a '56 Cadillac for next to nothing I would have turned my nose up and thought how uncool that would be. And those would have been the glory day for Cadillac !

andre1969 · February 2009

I know I was a weird kid, but by the time I graduated from high school, in 1988, I had fixated on the 1957-58 DeSoto in particular, and all "Forward Look" Mopars of that era in general. Even back then, I knew how badly built the 1957-58 models were, and figured it would be hard to get ahold of a decent one, and presumed I'd ultimately end up with a 1956 DeSoto. They were still good looking and reasonably powerful, but much better built than the 1957's, and had a much better survival rate.

I remember one guy at school had a 1957 Ford Fairlane 2-door. It wasn't the hardtop though, but a pillared coupe instead. I thought it was kinda neat because in those days, most pillared 2-doors were actually upright sedans, and actually shared the same roof with the 4-doors, but this car looked like it was just the sleeker hardtop with a B-pillar grafted on. I think that car got voted coolest car in school. Another guy had a black 1972 Riviera that was pretty sharp. I thought it looked kinda pimpy for the time, but it would be downright conservative compared to this blingy stuff that gets slapped on cars nowadays!

My 12th grade English teacher had a 1978 Catalina, 2-tone burgundy, with a 400 V-8. She wanted to sell it, and only wanted $500 for it. I wanted that thing SOOO badly! But my Mom & stepdad wouldn't let me buy it.

Funny how back in 1988, that 10 year old Catalina, and my 8 year old Malibu seemed like old cars. And compared to the rounded and wedge-shaped aero cars that were out in 1988, they did look pretty old. But then today, a 10 year old car just doesn't seem that old. And since retro became the in thing, many 10 year old cars actually look newer than the current crop of cars!

andre1969 · February 2009

One of those "1977.5" Can Ams sold on Barret-Jackson a year or so ago for something like $24,000. It was immaculate though, and I think only had around 5,000 miles on it. Because of that though, I think everybody and their mother who had a Can Am thought it was suddenly a valuable treasure, and I think that spiked the prices.

FWIW, I guess the Can Am is probably the last thing that Pontiac made that resembled a musclecar. 0-60 came up in about 8.8 seconds. Considering the 400 V-8 only made 200 hp (and that was the hot version...the more mundane 400's only made 180!), and the car came standard with a 3-speed automatic and 3.23:1 gears, and weighed over two tons, that's actually a pretty good time!

I wouldn't mind having a Can Am, but most of the ones I've found have been a bit sparse inside. Crank windows, manual seat adjust, etc. Maybe I'm just getting spoiled in my old age! Also, I've sat in those '73-77 intermediates with bucket seats, and I don't find them that comfy. I prefer the overstuffed bench seat in my '76 Grand LeMans, which gives good back and thigh support, and has power adjustments that take the seat so far back I can barely reach the pedals!

The guy that had my '76 LeMans before me liked the car a lot, but just wanted more power than the 165-170 hp 350-4bbl could deliver, so he bought a '74 Grand Am with a 455. I'm sure that must be a fun car! Well, by 1970's standards, at least! :shades:

lemmer · February 2009

This is the description I got from the owner of a Miata:

2000 model, 135k, 6sp, dark red, tan leather, tan top, glass back window, Bose, pw,pl. The little miata is kinda rough around the edges. It uses some oil and it also likes to pop out of 4th gear sometimes. No old crash damage, some door dings, top is in good shape with no tears or holes.

It actually looks great in the pictures the guy sent me. It looks like it might be some sort of special edition.

guss · February 2009

Sounds like a special edition. They only came in red with a tan top and had a six speed. It should also have the wood shift knob and fog lights for to be a SE.

Are you looking to buy it ?

Mr_Shiftright · February 2009

Well nothing that $6,000 or so wouldn't fix right up there. Engine overhaul, transmission rebuild, clutch--simple stuff you can do in the driveway :P

jlflemmons · February 2009

"also likes to pop out of 4th gear sometimes"

There's an easy $1K right there.

Mr_Shiftright · February 2009

Oh at least...if you're LUCKY you have bent shifting forks--but you have to take it out, knock it down, fix the busted parts, reseal it, and of course you'd be crazy not to put in a new clutch and pressure plate and overhaul the hydraulic system. Who knows what you'll find in there?

The problem with cars like this is that WHEN you bust them down to take a look inside the trans or the engine, and IF you find very serious matters---well, you're stuck---sitting there with a car you pay a couple thou for, all in pieces in front of you.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

lemmer · February 2009

Miatas are pretty hard to tear up. Somebody must have tried really hard.

lemko · February 2009

Heck, I was in high school around the same time. I'd have thought somebody with a 1956 Cadillac was ULTRA-COOL!!! :shades:

qbrozen · February 2009

I can't remember the last time an older car in my stable passed inspection the first time out ... but the Z did!
And it ran flawlessly my ~70 mile round trip to/from work on Tuesday.

I could have a good bit of fun with this car. It is far from slow. But the synchros kind of are. I notice that if I try to shift too fast it grinds a bit. It has the new oil, and I used that Purple stuff that did such wonders in my Alfa. I guess maybe its just the way these are (??). Anyway, its got great torque. Seats are nice, too. I've never had 12-way power seats before. I might have to figure out how to get it to sit lower in the car, though. As it is, I'm pretty sure I'll need to remove the T-top if I want to wear a helmet. I should probably redo the suspension before that happens, though.

boomchek · February 2009

Funny how back in 1988, that 10 year old Catalina, and my 8 year old Malibu seemed like old cars. And compared to the rounded and wedge-shaped aero cars that were out in 1988, they did look pretty old. But then today, a 10 year old car just doesn't seem that old. And since retro became the in thing, many 10 year old cars actually look newer than the current crop of cars!

I know exactly what you mean. After I graduated in 95 I bought a 12 year old 83 Accord. It looked, felt, and seemed really old, outdated, and rusty. Today a 12 year old Accord would be a 97, and for some reason it doesn't seem that old or outdated to me.
Is it because the styling hasn't evolved or because the cars we grew up with are the ones we admire the most and refuse to change with the times andf embrace new styling? To me many 90s cars still do look contemporary.

I remember magazine ads for the 95 Mazda MX-6. They wrote that the styling is so advanced and modern that if put in a time capsule and opened it in 2010 or something like that, then the car would look as modern as anything on the road, and it's sort of true, The lines still do look modern on the MX-6.

gsemike · February 2009

What ever happened with the Alfa. Last I heard the buyer was complaining after his 'experts' looked at it

fintail · February 2009

I look at it the same way. It seems a lot of 90s cars have aged pretty well and don't look as old today as early 80s cars looked in the 90s. The rate of advancement in styling has pretty much stopped...there's only so much one can do to make a car look "new" I guess.

qbrozen · February 2009

After he said he had a place he was going to get a 2nd opinion from, I never heard from him again.

boomchek · February 2009

I guess we're all waiting for the next big thing that will make current designs seem instantly outdated and obsolete.

Sort of like what jellybean styling in the 90s did to square box designs of the 80s, although I think the original Ford Taurus in mid 80s brought about the change in styling direction that continued well into the 90s.

fintail · February 2009

The 1986 Taurus doesn't look horribly antiquated or anything even today. Sure, some of the details aren't modern anymore, but 23 years later, it's not too bad.

In 1986, a 23 year old Ford looked like this:

Quite a difference. The Taurus, even with the problems it had, really did put styling on a new path for the NA market. A milestone car in its own right.

boomchek · February 2009

The 1986 Taurus doesn't look horribly antiquated or anything even today.

If you squint your eyes, it looks almost identical to a Ford 500.

Mr_Shiftright · February 2009

The Taurus is pretty much acknowledged as a not-so-inconspicuous copy of the earlier Audi 100.

fintail · February 2009

Yep, and if you want to go back even more, the Audi was influenced by the Ro80 of 15 years earlier...flush glazing and lights in 1967!

Europeans were much more openminded about adopting aero styles.

fezo · February 2009

Heck, I was in high school around the same time. I'd have thought somebody with a 1956 Cadillac was ULTRA-COOL!!!

Saw that one coming a mile away!

I agree with you, though. That would be pretty impressive.

Now I was in high school in the late 60s and would have found that pretty cool. of course my senior year I was driving an old 54 Mercedes 300B Adenauer. That was way cool. Trust me. A friend had a big old 61 Jaguar sedan. His dad had fully restored it. Mine was always a work in progress. Drove him nuts that mine got so much attention.

I think the fact that for so many years cars have ben more evolutionary in design makes older ones seem fresh still. Heck, those last Oldsmobiles still look good. They fit right in on the road.

It doesn't hurt that most of the really new designs don't look better than the ones they replaced.

Mr_Shiftright · February 2009

The only difference, and it's a HUGE one, is that a 1956 Cadillac was worshipped and adored by most American adults, whereas a 1986 Cadillac was mostly the butt of bad jokes about dead people in Florida.

Not the same heritage, by a long shot.

fintail · February 2009

I can very much see it, and I suspect it isn't intentional...there's only so much car designers have been able to come up with.

If there had been no Taurus and no acceptance of aero styling, I wonder if Chevy Celebrity-style angular designs would be big today.

fezo · February 2009

Absolutely agreed.

I'm not exactly sure when Cadillac lost their way. It took a while to get the ship righted. Right now it's the best thing GM has going for it.

explorerx4 · February 2009

the red one in the middle of your three pictures is Taurus #1, in the Henry Ford Musuem.

Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

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