Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

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  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,805
    link is to a list of cars. You'll have to tell us which one.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    Try this link:

    BMW, part deux
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,117
    I have to actually pay for the privelege of having the plates. I would only do it if I felt it couldn't pass inspection.

    In Maryland, the antique registration is something like $51 every two years. I think the pickup would have been $154.50 if I had kept regular plates on it, and a heavy car like my New Yorker would've been around $189.50. Plus, it gets you out of the emissions test, which is once every two years, and on regular-tagged cars, covers 1977 and newer.

    My Intrepid was $128 per year. Not sure what the Park Ave is going to cost when it comes up for renewal. The Cadillac dealer had no trouble transferring the tags from my Intrepid to the Park Ave and I didn't have to pay anything extra. But I think the cutoff is 3700 lb. The Intrepid was around 3400-3500, while I think the Park Ave is around 3800-3900. But the state of Maryland doesn't keep very good records. They had my '69 Bonneville in the <3700 lb bracket, which saved me some money back when it was too young for historic tags.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I think then they should change the license plates to read "old used car"---this abuse of "classic" has rendered the term absolutely meaningless. Oh, well.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,117
    I think then they should change the license plates to read "old used car"---this abuse of "classic" has rendered the term absolutely meaningless. Oh, well.

    I have to admit, I do agree, although I'm taking advantage of it myself! However, one minor nit is that they don't refer to the tags as "Classic'", but rather "Historic". Still, it doesn't seem right that come New Year's Day, you'll be able to see 1991 Tauruses, Camrys, Accords, etc with historic plates. 1991 just doesn't seem that far ago. But then neither does 1986, which would be the cutoff if MD had stuck to the 25 year requirement.

    Truth be told though, I really don't see that many 1990 or older vehicles being used on a daily basis, unless they're GM or Ford pickups, or a rare Caprice, FWD Electra/98, Century/Ciera, or the elusive M-body, usually a 5th Ave.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited December 2010
    Well you won't see many 80s cars on the road because most of them never made it.

    I was reading how wrecking yards simply do not want to store 80s vehicles long-term, as there is little demand for parts and these days, acreage for wrecking yards is expensive.

    So chances are when an 80s domestic car gets hauled off the street, it's going to be crushed pretty quick unless it's super-nice.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,805
    still no good. When dealing with addresses that end in aspx (active server pages), you usually can't link to them in any meaningful way.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • lemmerlemmer Member Posts: 2,689
    I see a 2003 Z4.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,805
    weird. Now its showing up.

    Trade-in value is about $10k in the northeast

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited December 2010
    Maybe high retail, private party, of $13,000?

    Here's a really nice one for sale for about that price with just a few more miles. I bet you could get it for $12.5K

    http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/cto/2089061900.html
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,760
    It's a lot of miles and that looks like a pretty base car. I'd want a big chunk off, or keep looking - there are plenty of lower mileage ones out there for almost the same money.
  • silverhuntersilverhunter Member Posts: 9
    In Ma any vehicle over 20 (or 25?) years can get antique plates. This allows you to register it and insure it for less, a lot less. The catch is you are technically only allowed to drive it on Sundays and holidays.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,805
    edited December 2010
    As far as insuranc, Hagerty doesn't care what plate is on my car. They certainly never asked. I can't imagine that is different anywhere else. So while registering it as a classic may restrict what days you drive it, insuring it as a classic doesn't.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    edited December 2010
    A couple of days ago, there was a discussion on the radio about, "Does the kind of car you drive define you." There was a woman who came on a talked about the 1978 Lincoln she was trying to sell on eBay for around $8,000. She kept gushing about what a classic it was and stuff. She also mentioned the car had "light damage." Well, the first person I thought of to buy this car was your friend with the Mark V. The second thought was, "Is this a Continental or a Mark V?" The third thought was of the "light damage" and, as a result, this car couldn't be worth anything near $8K.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    She'd be lucky to get half that, and if it's just a 4-door, maybe 1/4 of that.
  • lemmerlemmer Member Posts: 2,689
    OK, I know about the intermediate shaft and RMS failures, but other than that what do you guys think this 911 convertible is worth? It had a front end boo-boo when it was under 1K miles. Ouch.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 54,069
    don't know about the price, but it would scare me. especially without every service and repair record.

    For the same price, how about the 2006 Z4, with 1/2 the miles? Except that one is an AT.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited December 2010
    If it had a clean CARFAX, had service records, and passed a fine-tooth comb inspection and cylinder leakdown test, I'd offer $16K tops...start at $15K. Mileage is a big knock.

    If it's a "mystery Porsche" with no records and scans with trouble codes, etc., I'd run from it like my pants were on fire.

    Keep in mind that a new engine for the car = approximate book value.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 54,069
    cuts across 3 topics though.

    saw an oddball today. Really curious about what it should be worth.

    a 1999 Camaro SS convertible. 6 speed stick. Dark blue, black top and gray cloth. Looked nice body wise.

    kicker, it only had 36K on the clock. so probably a babied toy, unless they were put on 1/4 mile at a time...

    at a local BHPH type place (a little better than that though, and they do sell normally too).

    stickered at $15,995 which I know has to be crazy. especially in frigid and seemingly soon to be snowy NJ!

    probably something that would be fun for a week, and then I would realize I didn't actually like it. Probably after melting the rear tires on it, and having to replace them.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    If it were really nice, it might be worth about $8500. Maybe $10K if it were truly gorgeous.

    Your biggest obstacle, aside from getting the price down from LA-LA land, is having to deal with a cheesy interior and the build quality of a Christmas ornament.

    Fun to drive, however, and on a flat road, a very decent handling car.

    someone recently offered me a slightly ratty one for $6K, but I didn't think it was worth it. When I drove it, it rattled like golf balls in a clothes dryer, and the check engine light came on. :cry: It did run well, though.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 54,069
    that's about what I figured. Wasn't sure though what such low miles would do for it.

    If pushed for a "what would you buy it for right now" I would have tossed out $7,500. and no, I did not bother to have the guy get the keys to even open it up, and no way I was taking it for a ride.

    probably more fun though to romp around in than my Accord is.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I'm not sure I've ever seen a last generation Camaro that had high miles on it. I would imagine they would bio-degrade before that, unless you put the miles on hard and fast in a couple years.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,805
    edited December 2010
    a while back when I was shopping for my sportscar (when I wound up buying a 350z), I sat in one of those. That's as far as I got. Sitting in that seat and looking at that dash was instant disappointment. Might as well have been an '89 based on how it held up and how it looked.

    And I'm sure the one I sat in was even later than '99.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • gsemikegsemike Member Posts: 2,452
    I actually see them miled up but always assumed that they would have been repaired many times and generally felt like crap

    http://newyork.craigslist.org/jsy/cto/2107460119.html

    I actually had an 89 5.0 RS but it was so unreliable by 50k miles, I couldn't ditch it fast enough
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,117
    I've only known two people who had final-gen F-bodies. One of them was a base Camaro with the V-6. 1994 I think, so back then I believe it was using the Chevy 3.4? I don't think she had any problems with it, although it did get t-boned by a Ford Explorer around 1999 or so, and that was enough to total it.

    One of my best friends from college, who started with an '85 Cavalier, and then got his parents' '86-ish Tercel, bought a 1995 or 1996 Trans Am once he was finally graduated and had a good engineering job. He still had it the last time I saw him, which was right around the time I bought my 2000 Intrepid. That was 11 years ago though, so I have a feeling that car's ancient history, and he's moved on to something else.

    It's kinda sad though, looking back on them now. Those F-bods seemed like such a big deal when the redesigned 1993 models came out. But it didn't take long before the Mustang won out, and now looking back on them, they seem like a bit of a sad joke.
  • gsemikegsemike Member Posts: 2,452
    edited December 2010
    I remember the first time I saw one of the Trans Ams it looked freakishly large and with all the bumps and holes, it just looked bad. It jump seemed like Pontiac had gone too far

    image

    That just looks heavy and bloated and not sporty at all
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,805
    I actually liked those at the time. The WS6 just sounded great.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,760
    I like them more than the Camaros for one reason - side view mirrors. I always loathed the weird way the mirrors on those Camaros jut out. I also didn't like the old fashioned headlights on early models, really made the thing seem backwards when the Mustang hit the road just a year later.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,117
    Yeah, I think the Firebird/Trans Am went a bit too far, and only got worse in the later years, but I didn't think the Camaro looked too bad, although it looked a bit like a big Geo Storm. And then for 1998 it looked like they tried to make it look a bit like a Chrysler Concorde up front.

    I thought the old "Knight Rider" era Firebird and Trans Am looked really good. From the outside, at least...the interiors were horrible!

    I remember when I delivered pizzas, one of the other drivers had an '80's Camaro...forget the year, but I remember it breaking down, and we used my '86 Monte Carlo to push it to the repair shop.
  • gsemikegsemike Member Posts: 2,452
    Delivering pizza was an honorable calling It got me through 5 years of college and then some using various cars including

    - 1970 Chevelle
    - 1973 Dart
    - 1980 Aspen
    - 1978 Cutlass Supreme
    - 1972 (?) LeSabre
    - 1971 LeMans
    - 1976 Nova
    - 1981 Regal
    - 1985 Regal (with the 81's engine)
    - 1989 Camaro (just a few weekends here and there after I moved on to a FT grown up job)
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,117
    Delivering pizza was an honorable calling It got me through 5 years of college and then some

    It got me out of a flirtation with bankruptcy. I started in February 1996, as my marriage was failing and we were running deep into debt. Quit (for the first time) in November 2000, when I thought I was on top of the world financially, but then the market started tanking so I went back to work from January-April 2001, pulling in about 1/3 the hours, and 1/3 the money, but it just wasn't worth it so I quit again. Tried it again on September 10, 2001, but then the 9/11 tragedy hit and people became afraid to spend money as the country slipped into recession. And I felt like I was getting too old for it. So, I called out on Columbus Day, 2001, and then just told them things were getting too hectic at the full-time job, so take me off the schedule.

    As for the cars, I went through...

    1968 Dart
    1979 Newport
    1986 Monte Carlo (put 13,000 miles on it in just 3 short months)
    1989 Gran Fury
    2000 Intrepid (I had cut back considerably by this time, but still managed to put 32,000 miles on the car in the first 12 months)

    I'd also put my grandmother's '85 LeSabre into occasional use, and once or twice, I even had to use my '67 Catalina, although looking back, I can't remember the circumstances that forced me to press that one into service!

    The only car that really died in the line of duty was the Monte Carlo, which got t-boned, with 192,000 miles on it, and totaled.

    It actually was fun work for awhile, and I made some really good friends, but I wouldn't go back to doing it unless I really had to. And with the way some of the neighborhoods have turned around here, I don't think I'd want to do it unless I was armed to the teeth. I know it sounds almost funny to say, but those late 90's were a more innocent time! :sick:
  • garv214garv214 Member Posts: 162
    Shifty

    I saw this 911 on EBAY. A nice looking car to be sure. The seller scanned a copy of the most recent service (clutch replacement) as proof to the car's maintained condition. However, I was a little puzzled by the leakdown test scores on this car. I assume since this car is being maintained by a "Porsche Specialist" that he knew what he was doing while performing this test. Yet, people are bidding top dollar for this car.... Am I missing something here???

    Am I misreading this Leakdown Test???
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I didn't see the leakdown test but I would never buy a 2.7 engine car; however, this one looks quite nice and if it went cheap enough you could put a 3.0L engine in it and problems solved.

    If the engine were top notch, these cars should sell $8K to $13K, since they have a rather bad reputation.

    I can only hope that the people bidding realize that an engine rebuild will cost them more than the car did.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,177
    The leakdown results are the first line of the writeup for the clutch job, with values between 10% and 70%, I think, all over the place.
  • garv214garv214 Member Posts: 162
    Exactly. I kinda wonder if the leakdown test was performed correctly... Heck a couple of those cylinders could have blown out most of the candles from my last birthday cake I suspect....

    If the test was done correctly, this car is going to need an engine soon...
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited December 2010
    That'll be $12,000 please. Says right on the RO that it needs "rings". Which means barrels, which means do you split the case on a high mileage engine or just do rings and valves and hope it doesn't pound the lower end into a shake 'n bake bag?

    And why didn't they address this when the engine was out for the clutch?

    Funny thing, after that video plays then a Sports Car Market video comes on, where the experts are discussing a 2.7 911S and how bad the engines are (studs pull out of the case)!! Co-incidence or is this guy so clever that he's giving out so many hints that no one will ever be able to say he wasn't screaming "buyer beware".
  • garv214garv214 Member Posts: 162
    EXACTLY! For everyone's benefit, there is a video of the car driving around, but after the video is completed, there are some additional videos attached. One of which shows a 911 expert discussing a 1975 911 coming up for auction that he wouldn't even put a bid on.... So you have a leakdown test that is all over the place, a 911 expert saying to stay away from the 1975's, and yet the bidding is over $10K??!!! I guess someone out there has a 3.0L ready to swap....

    I don't know a whole lot about 911's, but that one scares me...

    I must be out of touch with the 911 market. I seem to recall (not so long ago) that $12-$14K would get you a pretty serviceable 911SC (1978-82), I guess not any more...
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    It depends a lot on color, overall condition, service records, extra goodies installed---prices can vary considerably because reconditioning costs are very high.

    I don't know why people are bidding $10K--let's just call it "eBay crazy", which happens now and then. Perhaps the very nice condition of the car? Or, as you say, someone has a 3.0 ready to plug in, which then gives you a rather desirable '75 911.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    You have to be pretty desperate or reckless and self-destructive to be a pizza delivery person in Philly. There are a lot of neighborhoods which pizza delivery guys will refuse to come nowadays. There have been many pizza delivery guys, robbed, shot, and killed. A lot of times, the robbers will have the pizza guy come to the address of an abandoned building and ambush him. It's sad that a hard-working guy gets killed over what amounts to $100 or less and a pizza. Some of the criminals around here are absolutely devoid of any humanity.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,805
    Had the urge to surf craigslist for M3s today.

    This guy should sue his parents for dropping him on his head too much as a child

    In case you didn't know, replacing your "altinator" now makes a 328 into an m3

    Can't we just send automatic M3s to the crusher

    Looks great! .... if you have no taste

    ummm... when you replaced the engine with a non-M one, you gave up your right to advertise it as an M car!

    I need say nothing

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Did I miss the memo for "Mutilate an M3 Month"?
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,177
    Put them all together and you still got nuttin...
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,760
    I bet the NYC/NJ area is douched out M3/fakeydoo central.

    The old timer and the Civic are the best.
  • jrosasmcjrosasmc Member Posts: 1,711
    Does this old 900 look like a promising project or a potential money pit waiting to happen?

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Saab-900-900-Turbo-Super-Clean-900-Turbo-_W0QQcmd- ZViewItemQQhashZitem1c17ed8498QQitemZ120660526232QQptZUSQ5fCarsQ5fTrucks

    Notice that the seller refers to it as "sweet." I'm not sure myself. :(
  • jrosasmcjrosasmc Member Posts: 1,711
    Spotted another '88, this one:

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Saab-900-900-SPG-Black-Turbo-Hatchback-Saab-900-S- PG-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem3363594adfQQitemZ220710128351QQptZUSQ5fCarsQ5fTru- cks

    I think Shifty mentioned having an SPG at one time.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited December 2010
    If you want to know what life will be like with these cars, just read the last 6 months of repairs on the SPG---and this is on a car with only 100K. (supposedly).

    We also need to look at the headliners---they rot out quickly and aren't cheap to fix.

    I am amazed though that the leather looks so good in the blue Saab, with all those miles. 220K!! EEK!!

    The pix of the engine bay brought back so many memories. I've touched every square inch of that engine and every square inch of anything attached to it, under it, on top of it, or behind it.
  • jrosasmcjrosasmc Member Posts: 1,711
    My homeroom teacher in high school was a (former) Saab enthusiast during my years there (late '90s) - he had two classic 900s, an '89 Turbo ragtop and a '92 Turbo hatch. He told me that the odometers in those can be a little wonky - I remember his convertible reading 249k miles when it really had something like 131k. I wonder why they always read fast.

    So what happened to his love of Saabs? The gentleman now drives Toyotas, go figure. He hasn't had a Saab since 2004.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 54,069
    At least it is cheap.

    http://southjersey.craigslist.org/cto/2113617061.html

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    It's rusty
    It's a 1975 (a dog)
    It has no bumpers
    Rust under windshield (uh-oh)
    Wrong air cleaner
    Seats collapsed
    Wrong wheels
    Wrong interior
    Wrong seats

    $3000? I don't think so. Just go buy a pretty one for $6K
  • omarmanomarman Member Posts: 2,702
    edited December 2010
    Is this guy kidding? 'I have documentation of the vehicle's maintenance records and original window sticker.' The owner has not replaced timing belt [or water pump] in 7 years and 35k miles. Description implies it may still have the original clutch. And it needs tires. He's asking over $11k! What kind of offer do you make on a 25 y/o 944 turbo with deferred maintenance issues?
    A time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing.
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