That same server glitch must have thrown the "n" in front of the word "either" creating a double-negative in jipster's sentence
Nice try pat. But, that was written purposefully for a little extra post zestiness. Note the :P emotorcon?
Oldfarmer, I'm taking all these hosts on singlehandidly and winning, no thanks to you or imazoo... who started the whole thing. Bring me steve, pf-flyer and sylvia... then they may have a chance against the ole jipster.
JM is just touchy from years of Hyundai cracks (he's the one with a couple of Hyundais, right?)
Since I’m sure you are talking at me, I gotta say something.
I knew what I was getting into when I bought those throw-aways. Son #1 (somewhat of a car geek) knew GM turned me off with the paint shedding on my 95’ Bonneville beast in 2000. Then when Mrs. jmonroe’s 95’ Monte Carlo started to drink water, in April 2005, with a whopping 67K miles on it (it would have cost me at least $1200 for head gaskets and head planeing) he knew I wasn’t going to buy another GM product.
He’s the one that had read a few articles about Hyundai’s in some of his car magazines and had done a little research on his own about them and said, “I know all you want in a car is reliability and Hyundai’s have pretty good reliability now (2005) so, you might want to take a look at them”. Like he said, “once you get over gagging, a couple of times, after saying you own a Hyundai, it won’t be so bad”. He was right and the rest is history.
Not that there is anything wrong with that!
Ain’t that what I just said? :P
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Hyundai’s have pretty good reliability now (2005) so, you might want to take a look at them”. Like he said, “once you get over gagging, a couple of times, after saying you own a Hyundai, it won’t be so bad”. He was right and the rest is history.
When I replace my "old folks" 99 Buick Regal in 2 or 3 years, about the time I lose the rest of my teeth and start wearing adult diapers, I wouldn't have any problem buying a Hyundai. I think a preowned 2007 Sonata would be a comfortable, quality and reliable car... at a great value. :shades:
I recently purchased a used car from a local auto dealer. Later that evening I noticed that the car (same VIN) had been listed on the dealers website for $2,000.00 less then what I paid. I have not signed the loan agreement with the bank yet. What should/can I do? :confuse:
But, you have nothing to lose going in (with a print out of the web price) to the sales manager, and expressing your dissatisfaction. They might just honor the price for good will. Or maybe not, and if they don't, a lesson learned for you.
May I ask why you didn't look at the dealer's website before you went there? If you just walk onto a lot without doing some research first you can pay big time for being impulsive.
The last car I bought was listed on several websites including the dealer's own. Only on the dealer's own site was the price a "special" $1000 off. Just by using that site I saved $1000.
I also checked book values on a number of sites to get an idea of the "market" price for the car. I offered less than their "special" price and it was accepted.
It would have been nice of the salesman to inform you of the web price but I can't see anything illegal in it. He/she was short-sighted though. He sure won't have you as a customer in the future and I bet you tell everyone you know not to shop there. Then again, that type of salesman probably won't be there very long.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
"...Here it is illegal to sell for more than an advertised price..."
I've seen dealers in my state have multiple prices advertised on the same car. I'm sure if they are that tricky they know what the law requires and stay just barely on the right side of it. Small print "price good today only" disclaimers and such.
It might pay the poster to check his/her local state laws.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I have a 2000 Audi A4 with only 75,000 miles on it. It's in good condition and I haven't had to put much into repairs and maintenance but when I have, it is very expensive to fix. Plus, I've always put premium unleaded into it. I'm worried that the repair incidents and costs are going to increase making it more trouble than it's worth. But since it has a clean history and has low mileage, I'm considering trading it in and paying a couple thousand dollars for a car a couple of years newer and with fewer miles, like a Jetta or Camry.
Is this a good idea and is it possible or is it not worth it or unlikely that I can find what I want at the price I want? Thanks.
In my experience, an Audi is probably one of the most troublesome cars on the road. Same applies to that Jetta you are considering.
As these cars age and the miles go up so do the problems which are very expensive to fix. Getting out of this car now would probably be a great idea. The Camry would be a good choice for you.
I would trade it for a new car, or a CPO Jetta, either 2.5 or 2.0T, not older than 2006. Older car will be same headache as the one you have now, if not more.
There are about a dozen other people, besides myself, that are buying the same make and model of vehicle. We want different trim options and will be setting up individual financing, but are looking to buy at the same time. What is the best way to leverage this? Any ideas...
If you area group of people that know each other than great. All you need to do is call a Dealership or two and give them the specs of what you want and they will tell you. Heck you will get a great deal combiming it all together.
I had a "group" of people recently who wanted to do an eight car deal.
Naturally, they wanted to buyt he cars for nothing.
I spent DAYS putting this together only to get my numbers shopped all over town. The lovely little group of eight went from dealer to dealer pitting us against each other in an attempt to squeeze even more out of the VERY skinny deal I had given them.
It didn't take much of this before I totally lost interest and they knew it.
Some of the other stores caught on too. In the end, the eight car deal turned into a three car deal and I sold two of those.
I purchased my Acura a couple years ago using my fax for negotiating. What helped me was this company that sells you a whole package of documentation on the car you're looking to buy or lease and they tell you how to strategically do all your negotiating for the price via fax. It was a huge help and it had every piece of information in it that you could ever want to know about the car. Problem is, I can't remember the name of the company and I don't have my paper work any longer. Can anybody help?
I think you're talking about "Fighting chance". They sell a package similar to Consumer Reports, but claim to be more comprehensive (e.g. entire model line pricing, not just one trim, plus additional materials). I didn't buy it, but I did buy their published "bible" book (it was six years ago already).
I'm pretty sure some of our sales friends may have some unkind words about it, but I found the book quite educational and very no-nonsense. It helped me to understand how the market is set up. Of course they put that through a very partisan point view of the consumer with complete disregard of sales folks feelings or needs - which gets me to the point of some people here not liking their advice.
They don't promise you any kind of magic wand or miracles - just plain old "if you do your job and recognize how the market works, you will likely get more advantegous outcome". Their market analysis quite accurate IMHO. They'll even tell you what cars it doesn't make sense to buy their package as those sell at sticker or above. I think that's exceptionally honest in the world where promises are cheap and everybody claims their product/service is solution for everything including a pneumonic plague.
I have never heard of them, but just out of curiosity how much was the kit?
I have had brokers call me that are middle men negotiators for consumers. They used to charge $500 for their service. Allot of folks could not understand that all these brokers did was negotiate an invoice deal for you and then you paid them $500 plus they would try to up sell you to there front door delivery service where you would sign a POA allowing them to complete the transaction for you. That was an additional $125.
So if you bought the Full Monty you end up paying $625 over invoice.
It did not take consumers long to figure out they could negotiate the same deal and the sales person would be more then happy to deliver the car any where in the area.
Ok, let me explain my thought process and then fire away at if I'm crazy or not. I have a 2005 Dodge Grand Caravan that I am significally upsidedown in (I know this from research and inquiries from dealers) - I have found a car a Cadillac Escalade that is priced well below value from a national well reputated dealer - based on math alone and using all of the car value sites (I do understand that these are guesstimates) I am currently paying a very high rate and can reduce the rate by over 5 points and get into the Cadiallac and roll in the negative equity and still be at close the trade-in value if not under from KBB, NADA and Edmunds.com on the cadillac - my current monthyl payment only half the amount is going to principle - so here's my question - am I crazy that thinking that this is a way to get rid of the negative equity - please note that the Cadillac is one year older and has 20k more miles - but the value is much higher - ok let me know anyones thoughts.
No, you're not crazy, you're just trying to rationalize your way out of a bad situation. Big SUV values are in the tank so don't think the guides are going to be anywhere close to accurate as to the value of an Escalade. It seems to me that at best you might be merely transferring the negative equity. More likely, you'll only worsen your plight.
Ask yourself: why would a "national well reputated dealer" price a Cadillac "well below" market?
I will agree with what cccccccccccccompson wrote. Seems like you will be keeping the negative equity and just switching cars. Now from your post I gather that you have a high interest auto loan. If thats the case you might want to keep the Caravan and try to refinance the van at a lower rate. If that cannot be done then you most likely wouldn't be able to get a good rate with the Caddy.
As for the Caddy, cars priced well below market value either 1.) really aren't 2.) get sold real quick or 3.) have something majorly wrong with them.
I seriously think that you will be digging yourself deeper.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I agree with snake. Keep your current car and refinance. If you can qualify for the new loan of the Cadillac, surely you can qualify for a better loan on the Caravan.
Think about it... If you were really getting the Escalade below market value, you could just flip it, and use the profit to pay down the loan on your Caravan...
I'll use this one reply to cover several of the responses and by the way thank you all for your thoughts.
1. I recgonize the increase cost of gas and insurance - However, no offense, but I never mentioned that monthly cash flow/expense was a issue. 2. Yes, I have a high rate 18.99 - I already have approval at 13.45 and the cadillac qualifies to the vehicle stips 3. Yes, I could refi and yes, probably reduce my rate but based on the amount of negative equity and that I am two years into the current loan - I'm not sure that would benefit me. 4. The dealer is Carmax - they have a history of not selling pieces of crap - at least not that I am aware of. 5. I have done comparison's of simular vehicles from both dealers and private parties and either people aren't selling what they are marketing or it is truely below value - in fact they have the same vehicle on the lot with 35k more miles at the same price - yes, it has me confused as well. 6. As far as large SUV's market tanking - that's not as much of the case here in Texas - in speaking with several dealers - some of whom I know - they have had a small dip in sales, but in comparison to other vehicles versus SUV's not really a noticable difference. 7. So to sum it up - 1. 2005 Dodge grand Caravan - with a 16k payoff - current loan at 18.99 with 4 years remaining,- average value of the 3 reporting agencies of 9500.00 2. a 04 Cad Escalade ESV Platinum at 23k, with 52k miles - loan approval at 13.45 - may get better - but this is on the table. average of 3 reporting agencies of 29500.00 -
So with the above information - do you still feel this is a bad mistake or I am still trying to rartionalize the decision as one of the posts mentioned.
from what you are saying is that the dealer somehow messed up on the pricing of this Escalade and i is actually worth more that he is asking.
From my experience dealers rarely under price their used cars , they may go way over in over pricing, but you may have found one.
My advise would be to run a carfax and have it checked out by your mechanic. If it still looks like a good deal after a thorough inspection then go ahead and buy it. Just remember you will be $13,500 more into debt tommorow. than you are today.
If cash flow isn't a problem, then I would take the extra money you'll be spending on gas for the Escalade and sending it to the bank in order pay off the Caravan faster. That will reduce your upside situation without having to transfer your negative equity into a new loan.
3. Yes, I could refi and yes, probably reduce my rate but based on the amount of negative equity and that I am two years into the current loan - I'm not sure that would benefit me.
Your whole motivation to do this is to get rid of debt, right? The lower the payment on your Caravan, the more you will have left over to pay it off sooner, the less you pay in interest, etc.
If you buy the Escalade, you will have a 5.54% lower rate (but you did not say what's the term of the Escalade loan). However, you will also have more debt. Right now you owe $16k. If you buy the Escalade, you will owe $29.5k ($23k from Escalade + 6.5k of the upside down loan of Escalade). That doesn't include the higher expenditure in gas and maintenance.
It's a bad idea all around. Don't do it. Refinance the Caravan, and pay it off.
a 04 Cad Escalade ESV Platinum at 23k, with 52k miles - loan approval at 13.45 - may get better - but this is on the table. average of 3 reporting agencies of 29500.00 -
Like somebody else said above. If you are so sure that it's undervalued, buy the Escalade and sell it right away. Use the profit to pay off the Caravan. And if it's such a good deal, why is it still available?
The man wants the Caddy. When somebody wants something really bad, they'll always come with those kind of justifications to the point that the dealer is practically paying them to switch
What can I say that others have not said before. Seriously you are digging yourself deeper into the hole. Keep the van, refinance it and pay it off quicker, you will be better off in the long run.
Carmax rarely, if ever sells at below market so my guess is that you will be more upside down than you are know.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Sure sounds like it. And why not? Who wants to drive around in a sensible mini-van when he can be stylin' in a Caddy. There are a few other things you "mature" car buyers are forgetting:
1. When the bank forecloses on his house because he charged his way into disaster, what would you rather sleep in?
2. When his wife dumps him for the above mentioned disaster which vehicle will he have better luck picking up chicks in?
3. When the repo guys come looking for you which vehicle will have the power to outrun their tow truck?
There will always be soup kitchens and flop houses but how often do you get a chance to have a really good car? :P
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Comments
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Nice try pat. But, that was written purposefully for a little extra post zestiness. Note the :P emotorcon?
Oldfarmer, I'm taking all these hosts on singlehandidly and winning, no thanks to you or imazoo... who started the whole thing. Bring me steve, pf-flyer and sylvia... then they may have a chance against the ole jipster.
Since I’m sure you are talking at me, I gotta say something.
I knew what I was getting into when I bought those throw-aways. Son #1 (somewhat of a car geek) knew GM turned me off with the paint shedding on my 95’ Bonneville beast in 2000. Then when Mrs. jmonroe’s 95’ Monte Carlo started to drink water, in April 2005, with a whopping 67K miles on it (it would have cost me at least $1200 for head gaskets and head planeing) he knew I wasn’t going to buy another GM product.
He’s the one that had read a few articles about Hyundai’s in some of his car magazines and had done a little research on his own about them and said, “I know all you want in a car is reliability and Hyundai’s have pretty good reliability now (2005) so, you might want to take a look at them”. Like he said, “once you get over gagging, a couple of times, after saying you own a Hyundai, it won’t be so bad”. He was right and the rest is history.
Not that there is anything wrong with that!
Ain’t that what I just said? :P
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I was going to say, "if you need help let me know", but so far it looks like a fair fight!
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Watch it, Jips! Don't make me play the "rescind your membership in the tide's fan club" card! :P
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
That sounds like dirty-pool; 'jip' may need my help afterall. :mad:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I find that offensive.
Ducking and running
:P
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
When I replace my "old folks" 99 Buick Regal in 2 or 3 years, about the time I lose the rest of my teeth and start wearing adult diapers, I wouldn't have any problem buying a Hyundai. I think a preowned 2007 Sonata would be a comfortable, quality and reliable car... at a great value. :shades:
LOL. Good one Tidester. But, we don't want membeship to dip down into the single digits again do we?
That sounds like dirty-pool; 'jip' may need my help afterall.
Thanks jmonroe. My wife always tells me all the time I need "help".
Not that there is anything wrong with that!
Nice Sienfeld reference.
If so, the car is yours.
Unless the loan is thru the dealership, then you might have some leverage to make them reduce the price.
But, you have nothing to lose going in (with a print out of the web price) to the sales manager, and expressing your dissatisfaction. They might just honor the price for good will. Or maybe not, and if they don't, a lesson learned for you.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
May I ask why you didn't look at the dealer's website before you went there? If you just walk onto a lot without doing some research first you can pay big time for being impulsive.
The last car I bought was listed on several websites including the dealer's own. Only on the dealer's own site was the price a "special" $1000 off. Just by using that site I saved $1000.
I also checked book values on a number of sites to get an idea of the "market" price for the car. I offered less than their "special" price and it was accepted.
It would have been nice of the salesman to inform you of the web price but I can't see anything illegal in it. He/she was short-sighted though. He sure won't have you as a customer in the future and I bet you tell everyone you know not to shop there. Then again, that type of salesman probably won't be there very long.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I've seen dealers in my state have multiple prices advertised on the same car. I'm sure if they are that tricky they know what the law requires and stay just barely on the right side of it. Small print "price good today only" disclaimers and such.
It might pay the poster to check his/her local state laws.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Is this a good idea and is it possible or is it not worth it or unlikely that I can find what I want at the price I want? Thanks.
As these cars age and the miles go up so do the problems which are very expensive to fix. Getting out of this car now would probably be a great idea. The Camry would be a good choice for you.
Older car will be same headache as the one you have now, if not more.
There are about a dozen other people, besides myself, that are buying the same make and model of vehicle. We want different trim options and will be setting up individual financing, but are looking to buy at the same time. What is the best way to leverage this? Any ideas...
Thanks.
If you area group of people that know each other than great. All you need to do is call a Dealership or two and give them the specs of what you want and they will tell you. Heck you will get a great deal combiming it all together.
GP
I had a "group" of people recently who wanted to do an eight car deal.
Naturally, they wanted to buyt he cars for nothing.
I spent DAYS putting this together only to get my numbers shopped all over town. The lovely little group of eight went from dealer to dealer pitting us against each other in an attempt to squeeze even more out of the VERY skinny deal I had given them.
It didn't take much of this before I totally lost interest and they knew it.
Some of the other stores caught on too. In the end, the eight car deal turned into a three car deal and I sold two of those.
Really wasn't worth the effort in the end.
I'm pretty sure some of our sales friends may have some unkind words about it, but I found the book quite educational and very no-nonsense. It helped me to understand how the market is set up. Of course they put that through a very partisan point view of the consumer with complete disregard of sales folks feelings or needs - which gets me to the point of some people here not liking their advice.
They don't promise you any kind of magic wand or miracles - just plain old "if you do your job and recognize how the market works, you will likely get more advantegous outcome". Their market analysis quite accurate IMHO. They'll even tell you what cars it doesn't make sense to buy their package as those sell at sticker or above. I think that's exceptionally honest in the world where promises are cheap and everybody claims their product/service is solution for everything including a pneumonic plague.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
I have had brokers call me that are middle men negotiators for consumers. They used to charge $500 for their service. Allot of folks could not understand that all these brokers did was negotiate an invoice deal for you and then you paid them $500 plus they would try to up sell you to there front door delivery service where you would sign a POA allowing them to complete the transaction for you. That was an additional $125.
So if you bought the Full Monty you end up paying $625 over invoice.
It did not take consumers long to figure out they could negotiate the same deal and the sales person would be more then happy to deliver the car any where in the area.
http://www.fightingchance.com/thepackage.php?js=y
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Ask yourself: why would a "national well reputated dealer" price a Cadillac "well below" market?
As for the Caddy, cars priced well below market value either 1.) really aren't 2.) get sold real quick or 3.) have something majorly wrong with them.
I seriously think that you will be digging yourself deeper.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
You can't trade your way to prosperity...
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Your insurance premium will probably go up too.
1. I recgonize the increase cost of gas and insurance - However, no offense, but I never mentioned that monthly cash flow/expense was a issue.
2. Yes, I have a high rate 18.99 - I already have approval at 13.45 and the cadillac qualifies to the vehicle stips
3. Yes, I could refi and yes, probably reduce my rate but based on the amount of negative equity and that I am two years into the current loan - I'm not sure that would benefit me.
4. The dealer is Carmax - they have a history of not selling pieces of crap - at least not that I am aware of.
5. I have done comparison's of simular vehicles from both dealers and private parties and either people aren't selling what they are marketing or it is truely below value - in fact they have the same vehicle on the lot with 35k more miles at the same price - yes, it has me confused as well.
6. As far as large SUV's market tanking - that's not as much of the case here in Texas - in speaking with several dealers - some of whom I know - they have had a small dip in sales, but in comparison to other vehicles versus SUV's not really a noticable difference.
7. So to sum it up - 1. 2005 Dodge grand Caravan - with a 16k payoff - current loan at 18.99 with 4 years remaining,- average value of the 3 reporting agencies of 9500.00 2. a 04 Cad Escalade ESV Platinum at 23k, with 52k miles - loan approval at 13.45 - may get better - but this is on the table. average of 3 reporting agencies of 29500.00 -
So with the above information - do you still feel this is a bad mistake or I am still trying to rartionalize the decision as one of the posts mentioned.
Many thanks.
From my experience dealers rarely under price their used cars , they may go way over in over pricing, but you may have found one.
My advise would be to run a carfax and have it checked out by your mechanic. If it still looks like a good deal after a thorough inspection then go ahead and buy it. Just remember you will be $13,500 more into debt tommorow. than you are today.
If cash flow isn't a problem, then I would take the extra money you'll be spending on gas for the Escalade and sending it to the bank in order pay off the Caravan faster. That will reduce your upside situation without having to transfer your negative equity into a new loan.
Your whole motivation to do this is to get rid of debt, right? The lower the payment on your Caravan, the more you will have left over to pay it off sooner, the less you pay in interest, etc.
If you buy the Escalade, you will have a 5.54% lower rate (but you did not say what's the term of the Escalade loan). However, you will also have more debt. Right now you owe $16k. If you buy the Escalade, you will owe $29.5k ($23k from Escalade + 6.5k of the upside down loan of Escalade). That doesn't include the higher expenditure in gas and maintenance.
It's a bad idea all around. Don't do it. Refinance the Caravan, and pay it off.
Like somebody else said above. If you are so sure that it's undervalued, buy the Escalade and sell it right away. Use the profit to pay off the Caravan. And if it's such a good deal, why is it still available?
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Carmax rarely, if ever sells at below market so my guess is that you will be more upside down than you are know.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Snake,
"know"? You better hope Richard doesn't read this forum. :P
That will teach me to post on the fly trying to get out of the office quickly.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Sure sounds like it. And why not? Who wants to drive around in a sensible mini-van when he can be stylin' in a Caddy. There are a few other things you "mature" car buyers are forgetting:
1. When the bank forecloses on his house because he charged his way into disaster, what would you rather sleep in?
2. When his wife dumps him for the above mentioned disaster which vehicle will he have better luck picking up chicks in?
3. When the repo guys come looking for you which vehicle will have the power to outrun their tow truck?
There will always be soup kitchens and flop houses but how often do you get a chance to have a really good car? :P
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible