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Toyota TACOMA vs Ford RANGER - VIII
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Comments
the Taco verse the Ranger?"
So what do you plan to do? You drive halfway over that 10" obstruction and then back up and go around?
Get a clue! It's marketing glitz!
Clutch start/cancel switch: -I'll give you this one. the ZR2 definitely doesn't have one. although I really question the usefulness, especially since I would only get an automatic, not a manual transmission.
Locking rear diff: Yes, the ZR2 has an Eaton Grav-Lok locking rear diff that locks up to 20 mph. (not 5 mph like the tacoma's
Suspension: Like the Tacoma, the ZR2 has a off-road tuned suspension, including 46mm Bilstein shocks.
Class leading ground clearance: As i just posted, I went out and measured 'em last night. both were 9 1/2".
I'm not sure what payload has to do with off-road performance spoog. for the record, though, the ZR2's actual payload is 1400, not 1000.
If you get a chance to poke your nose under a ZR2, take a look at the drive shaft. -you'll know what heavy duty really is. it's twice the diameter of the tacoma's or ranger's. much of the driveline hardware on the ZR2 comes from the Silverado. plus you can't deny the power advantage of chevy's 4.3L engine.
I'm sorry Spoog, but the ZR2 is every bit as equipped and capable as the Tacoma is for off-roading. my point here is not to say that the TRD is a lousy or inferior truck. -it's not, it's a great truck that is very well equipped for off-roading. but so is the ZR2. that's my point.
One thing to note about the ZR2's suspension is how the rear shock mounts extend below the axle. While they are not lower then the diff case it is something that has to be considered when trying to avoid obstacles that cannot be driven over with tires.
equipped and capable as the Tacoma is for
off-roading. my point here is not to say that the
TRD is a lousy or inferior truck. -it's not, it's a
great truck that is very well equipped for
off-roading. but so is the ZR2. that's my point. \\
The August 99 Issue of Petersons offroad had a comparison test between the Ranger, Tacoma, and zr2.
They chose the Tacoma as the best truck , and the best offroader.
If you look at the Chevy, it has no skid plates, or a fuel tank plate. The rear shock mounts also extend below the axle, which is an offroading "no-no".
I suggest you check out that 99 Petersons offroad comparison test.
You can toss on neat features, but if the basic, inherent design is flawed for offroading, there will be problems.
Does that Petersen's magazine come out of your house and wash your truck too, spoog???
Sorry if adding credible sources to a discussion is looked down upon. Geeze.
Since Petersons are 4x4 experts, and the ranger, Tacoma, and zr2 went head to head in the 99 august issue, I felt it was relevant.
Unfortunately, it usually takes a shake-up for someone to move safety up to a priority on their shopping list.
This safety talk reminds me of a lady I worked with a few years back. She had bought a Mazda MX3 (a tiny little car for those of you who don't know) on the recommendation of her boyfriend. He said they were safer because being smaller they could avoid an accident. I said, "Bam! Someone just hit you. You just got T-boned and had absolutely no way of avoiding the collision." Needless to say, she was speechless.
As for the comment of spending and extra $3-4K for the Toyota "quality" over what the past Toyota trucks? Looks to like the Toyota marketing company deserves an award. To me you must have a little insecurity about paying the same amount for a compact w/v-6(with plastic bumpers)as you would for a full-size with a v-8. Even if you don't want or need a full size why would you spend as much? I've owned toyota truck and loved it eventhough I had to replace the motor at 100k miles. I have worked for toyota dealerships and have seen the problems that are associated with them. I have also worked for a Ford dealership and a Mitsubishi dealership they all have plenty of problems right off the truck! The interior of the toyota truck has to be the cheapest looking with tacked-on armrests and power window controls. How about the shallowest bed on the market. It's really sad(or stupid) that you would have to come up with a phrase such as that to justify why you paid more than the rest of us. So if YOU believe that the Taco is better good for you, but don't speak for me and why I didn't buy the Taco...because it surely wasn't because I couldn't afford it.
I, for one, only do a little light-duty off-roading and a whole lotta snow travel. Do I want/need 4wd? Yes. Do I need skidplates? No. Do I want skidplates? No.
It's not like skidplates are a freebie either being "standard" and all. They're included in the price of the truck. You're just not given the option of whether you want them or not.
The only option that I believe all trucks should be equipped with is 4-wheel ABS (for safety purposes). The rest is up to the individual preferences of the purchaser.
One more thing. You're definately right about being able to get great deals on the Ranger. It's called value. You get more truck per dollar. (This is the reason that Ford sells so many of these things)
I saw the new Frontier this past weekend and all I can say is "Oh my God, what are they thinking?" Its actually worse then the new Monteros and about as ugly as the Izuzu Vehicross.
http://www.crashtest.com/ford_truck/index.htm
Bad tire company.
allknowing
Will have to check my data. Am sure that the Tacoma in the Govt crash tests had a much higer injury rate than the Ranger, like 2:1 in the index quoted. That is bad.
hitcher:
My brake pads have about 1/2 inch left at 31,000 miles, good for maybe 5,000 more miles. Do not know what the issue is about brakes. . .
Also, only have a pic of my Ranger with water to the bottom of the bumper, the streams were lower in July as compared to June. However, did show you a 15 year old Ranger, 180,000 + on the original engine, with water to just below the headlights. And before you ask, no I would not go through there, that older Ranger has a 6 inch lifted suspension.
If you take a closer look, you'll see that ALL compact trucks (S10, Frontier, etc...) have the highest death rating.
Would you actually expect the Tacoma, which has the worst crash test ratings and safety record of any of these trucks, to fare any better?
Try using a little common sense here.
Hmmm... Maybe they couldn't rate the Tacoma because the scale couldn't go high enough. Most likely it's due to the low numbers of Tacos out on the road.
Will it happen? Probably not. Ford will just pass the buck onto Firestone.
I think I saw a pic of the new Ranger, I hope it doesn't start to look like the Explorer. I guess if I want the truck-look on my next vehicle I'm going to have to get a 1-ton
1) They want to haul stuff (and don't want to dirty/destroy the inside of an expensive SUV).
2) They want 4-wheel drive for inclement weather conditions.
While any particular truck's off-road capabilities (clearance, etc) make for interesting debating, the majority of buyers will hardly ever take their trucks off-road on the types of trails that have been shown and discussed on this forum lately.
Even though I'm not a Ford/Ranger advocate, I believe Ford offers the Ranger buyer a far greater spectrum of options that allow the buyer to "customize" his Ranger to suit his/her needs. Why should a buyer pay for things like skid plates if their intent is to never venture into the back country? Toyota marketing could learn a lesson form Ford in this regard. If they did, the Tacoma might be priced more competitively.
Don't get me wrong. I like to go 4-wheeling, but only a couple of times a year. However, I feel I NEED 4-wheel drive for the periodic nasty winter weather we get here in the Denver area.
be desired...I like the current body-style better.
Imagine having to wax the fender flares? But how
about that hidious new Taco? WOW you put a hook in
the corner of that grill and you have yourself a
catfish! "
hahahahhaha!!!!!!!
It's strange. It just seems that alot of the "higher ups" in the Japanese corporations are getting older, and some of them are getting senile.
In my opinion, the current and future designs of compact pickups are taking a turn for the worse, not for the better.
Even the full size pickups look bad now.
Honestly, there isnt one 4x4 out there that catches my eye now. The new Landcruiser is ugly, the f150 is ugly, the Chevy Silverado is ugly. The only 4x4 I like the looks of is the Land Rovers and the regular old jeeps.
To me, the vehicles that seem to age best with time and manage to not look outdated if kept clean and shiny would be the regualr jeeps and the Toyota pickups from 90-95.
As for the current trucks the only one that I really like is the Ford SD series but, damn they're all over the place. That's one reason I kind of like my crew cab(nissan) I don't see many and when I do it's not a 4wd but, I'm sure I will.
To me, the best looking 4x4's are:
1. Jeep Wrangler/Cj/YJ
2. Toyota Landcruiser, FJ 40
3. Range Rover
4. Land Rover, Land Rover Defender
5. Toyota pickups 80-98
6. Dodge Ram
7. Toyota 4runner
It's funny...not only do these 4x4's looks the best, but they are the best offroaders as well.
Second, the Ranger is the safest vehicle that fits my needs. I despise Sport Stupidity Vehicles. I can't tow with a sport wagon. And, a full-size truck is inefficient, large, and cumbersome (for my needs).
Third, I'm not "knocking" the Taco. Tests are just that, tests. They don't portray all real world conditions. But, they give you an idea of what might happen. A one star rating out of five indicates to me that a serious deficiency might exist.
Fourth, you can get killed in any vehicle. A big portion of it depends on what hits you. Hence, my despisal of jumbo sport 'utes.
Finally, if you want to write off safety, feel free. It seems that most Taco owners do. I guess you consider the risk acceptable.
Have you seen anything to dispute that the Ranger is not one of the (or in many cases the) safest vehicle in the compact truck class? Just curious.
First, you discredit ANYTHING negative about the Taco in terms of safety as flawed, not the real world, it's not a 4x4, blah blah blah. Next, you want to compare the Ranger to everything else on the road. Not the Ranger vs. Taco. Not even the Ranger vs. the rest of its class. One of us is using flawed logic here, and I don't believe it's me.
My point is that no test, rating, or whatever is gonna tell the whole story. There's some truth in each, but there's also some bias due to the testing parameters.
To sum up the tests and everything else I've seen:
-Compact trucks, in general, are not the safest vehicles to drive.
-The Ranger is a class leader in safety, while the Tacoma is not.
Take it for what it's worth. We're all at risk when we go out on the road whether we're riding a motorcyle or driving a Sherman tank.
-spoog, do you have a link to that august issue of peterson's? -just want to keep you honest.
Tacoma was much higer, sometimes double, than the Ranger.
It was posted back maybe on the "...V..." topic board or maybe "...VI..."
Anyway, go back and look, the data is there.
"crash test ratings are an indicator of either walking away from an accident or being hauled away from one, possibly in a black bag. Unfortunately, it usually takes a shake-up for
someone to move safety up to a priority on their
shopping list".
As I said there is no evidence that has been produced to back up the claim that the Ranger leads in safety other than the crash tests. In real life that has not been the case. While I would also agree that the Tacoma is not a class leader in safety, I would not agree that the Ranger is either. For small trucks the Dodge Dakota appears to lead the way with an "acceptable" Death Rate rating while the Ranger is rated the worst possible score at "poor".
If you feel better as a result of the Ranger's crash test score that's what matters because you drive one. A Tacoma owner can feel OK also knowing that the real life safety record of the Tacoma is just as good as the Ranger, at least according to my insurance company.
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/ncap/cars/710.html
Tacoma:
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/ncap/cars/710.html
Look at the bottom, the Thoracic Trauma Index Pelvis Deceleration Red is bad.
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/ncap/cars/819.html
Anyways, the death rate chart is the only negative thing I've ever seen posted about the Ranger's safety. Have you seen anything else? Not so with the Taco. It seems that everything is negative.
But, if believing that it's just as safe because of the amount of premium that you pay, then go right ahead. I guess if I was driving something with such a terrible safety record, I'd be trying to justify it too.
Here are my numbers from Carpoint for the v6 x-cab 4wd models. I would have used the numbers from the manufacturer's web site but Ford changes their site just about every month and decided not to supply specifications this time.
Ford v6, x-cab, 4wd, auto = 3654 lb
Toyota v6, xcab, 4wd, auto = 3460 lb
Difference = 194lbs
I have grown tired of endless repetitive debate, however I do like to check up on the things people post.
of peterson's? -just want to keep you honest. \\
Sorry man. You are going to have to go to the local library and dig up the back issues of Petersons.
If there was a link, don't you think I would have posted it 500 times by now?
I have preached and preached to Ranger owners to drop those Firejunkers from day 1. The tires Ford puts on the Rangers are a joke if you offroad. I have read in other rooms around the net from Ranger owners that have become stranded because of the Firejunkers getting punctured so easy. I have and do still commend Toyota for putting real tires on their trucks.. I have written to Ford and complained about this issue. Hopefully for 2001 they will offer better tires, at least as an option..
Crashtests are out all over the net. The Ranger ranks very well, Toyota has problems no doubt..
See you in the Cascade range!. I'm going up around the Timothy lake area this weekend, Hope to see some Tacoma's out here...
cpousnr, I really dont trust any of the weight numbers, even the ones I posted. I do belive the numbers I am seeing on the Toyota site since they break it down by engine and transmission type as well as 2wd vs 4wd and cab type. I have a Ranger brochure at home wonder how detailed it gets. The numbers from Edmunds and Carpoint dont agree especially for the Ranger and you cant really compare like vehicles.
CT- you comment that the Tacoma has a terrible safety record apparently isn't true except for the test lab for whatever reason. Still no data can be produced to indicate otherwise. Your comment that it seems all the safety data on the Tacoma is negative is also only in your imagination. It's rated "Acceptable" overall in every crash test I've seen. If it makes you feel better to stretch truth and trash the Tacoma be my guest. Since the Ranger can't compete in performance or quality you have to try something.
CT- sorry if I was getting confrontational again. I really don't want to get that way in here. I guess I'm just kind of burned out on this subject.
Looking at this formula for rollover the Ranger 4x4 supercab has a 33% chance to rollover.
BTW, you better hope you run into a Tacoma out there you'll need some one to pull your dumbass out! Bring your strap, as I'm sure that's probably habit for you buy now!
I never said that the "excessive death rate" as you call it is "OK". I said it was representative of the class, which is unfortunate. Don't you think that I'd like any vehicle I drive to be as safe as possible?
Do you really think I'm "bashing" the Tacoma? Do you think I would be happier if you were driving around in a more dangerous vehicle?
Hell no!
I'd only like people to take their heads out of their collective a$$es and consider vehicle safety as a primary concern in a vehicle purchase, no matter what they buy.
Just turn your head and look at the person sitting in the passenger seat. In that wreck which I referred to before, my wife would have DIED had she been riding with me.
My beef here is that a 1 star safety rating (which I believe signifies a 40% chance of fatality) surely signifies something amiss. I truly hope for the sake of you and yours that it was only bias due to testing parameters. Before purchasing a Taco (which could be a possibility for me a few years down the road, as I'm not a Ford fanatic, buy American, blah blah blah type of guy) I'd investigate the reasons behind it and make sure that Toyota has rectified the situation (if it did in fact exist).
comparing all compact trucks? Something like:
"War of the Compact Pickups: S10 vs. Frontier vs.
Tacoma vs. Ranger vs. B-Series vs. Hombre vs.
Dakota"
Should the Dakota be included in there? Wouldn't
it be more of a mid-size truck.
Just think how fun it would be to get all of these
"personalities" into one room!