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Comments
- Tim
The lumbar (back) support keeps inflating on mine. It's really no big deal, but I got to get it in cause it's starting to bug the hell out of me. One of those power operated jobs, get in in the morning and the dang thing is inflated (about 50% of the time) probably a bad switch.
Cliffy,
are they offering limited slip in 2001 on the Tundra?? Seems like a needed item on a serious off road 4X4. Granted most are not used in that fashion, but it would still be nice...
Dean
Until somebody can prove to me that the number of trucks sold = the best truck available, I consider that a completely absurd statement. If you want to know if any of your claims or any of anybody else's claims are correct, take the "mirror reflection of the statement" and see if it makes sense. In this case it would be that the vehicle with the fewest says must be the worst.
Well, by that notion, I guess Mercedes Benz, Jaguar, Volvo, Saab, Ferrari, and cars like the Viper and Prowler must be the biggest pieces of trash around. Kudos to your ability to derive one thing from another! LOL. I guess the best vehicle on the planet would have to be the Corolla because it has outsold absolutely every type of car and truck... gimme a break...
You know what sales figures mean? They mean 2 things... they are the most affordable of the bunch in their class (which often translates into best "functional" design such as stronger engines, etc., but, not heavy on option packages or standard features), and their marketing department has an excellent track record and good budget to reach its target consumers with. If you want to see how truly good a product is (in the eye of the beholder), it isn't the NUMBER of sales, it is the percentage of repeat customers at the VERY least, but, mostly, the performance, reliability, maintenance, and resale value of the vehicle over many years. There are other factors as well, many of which are just about as important, but, sales is not a good measure of quality. It takes 8 times as much energy and marketing resources to retrieve a competitor to buy your product as it does to get a new consumer. Tundra trucks being $30K are not going to attrack a whole lot of new consumers... but, selling a 100k+ trucks in a saturated market just shows you how many people feel that the Tundra has more to offer than what they already have. In all fairness, Ford, out of the Big3, has the most to loose since it has the biggest market share. But, is that share increasing? or decreasing? that will tell you more about the perceived quality of the vehicle by its very owners than will the absolute numbers...
bco
bco
BCO beat me to the post I would have responded with. The reason cars outsell each other is more based on styles, gas mileage, price, etc., not utility. Popularity, trends and the like play more a part with car purchases. With trucks, it is more based on two major things, utility and cost. Nobody said that the Toyota was a bad truck and not worth buying, but at it's price tag, maybe that is why they don't sell more and kind fit into the luxury car catagory that you stated in your pointless arguement. If the Tundra was considerably less money, based on the fact that it is considerably less amount of truck, then they would sell more. After all, the Dakota sells like crazy and is about the same size and utility as the Tundra. Another reason why Ford Ranger is higher in sales than the Tacoma.
Do you really think that to have the most sales for 22 straight years that it is all contributed to new customers??? You tout a lot of education in statistics and such and claim to have spent a lot of time researching such things. I am starting to wonder if you wasted your money. If Ford truck sales were only marginally higher or if they only did so for one year or even a few years, you may have a valid point. The fact is, Ford has outsold by a large margin for 22 straight years. That is a big statement and I don't think Ford is a big nervous about losing that run of the title due to the Toyota. If they are nervous of losing the title to any truck, it would be the Silverado or the Sierra. Toyota is not even of consideration to Ford.
Why do you think Toyota wanted to copy Fords F150 design??? Toyota has even mentioned on several occasions that the Tundra was brought about to recoup the poor selling T100 disaster and not really trying to compete with the full size market beyond the Tundra. If they never have plans for anything bigger or badder than what is currently offered in the Tundra any time soon, they may not even see 100k units sold each year.
- Tim
Why should I care about that? I didn't care at all until I started shopping for a pickup. I wanted the most (for my needs and desires) for the least money spent. I wanted to know if former buyers tended to be happy or not as an indicator of what I might expect from my purchase. I wanted to know if a particular truck had unresolved problems that might come to bite me on the buttocks later.
In looking at minivans, the sales superiority was with the Daimler Chrysler models. However, their historical reliability record is suspect. Consequently, I am not at all impressed that they could still entice large numbers of people into buying their products. The Honda Odyssey seems to offer more of what I want/like and, so far, with at least as good and seemingly better reliability and quality/speed of handling problems that do arise. That is most likely the minivan we will buy (next year).
In pickups, the sales leader offered the most for my preferences with Tundra a close second. The Toyota quality reputation was a wash with the F-150 actual history. The F-150 was cheaper and bigger inside (important to me). We bought the F-150.
I can't decide for you and won't let you decide for me! No one needs to justify their decision to anyone but themselves. Maybe it makes me feel more warm and fuzzy that many others continue to pick the F-150, but it doesn't increase or decrease how well the truck works for me. Like it or not, each of us must decide for ourselves (as if you didn't know that already!). Enjoy what you buy/bought....
Timothydavis was able to correctly read my original post on this issue. Under non-towing situations, you are not supposed to pump ABS brakes. You slam them on. Once you are in the habit of this, you run the risk of doing it when the trailer is attached. Habits are hard to brake.
The proper way to brake with a trailer is to bump the brakes. This allows the surge brakes to engage softer and not lock up. This is the improper way to use ABS though. This is why some people do not want ABS on trucks that are expected to tow a trailer with surge brakes.
OK, what is the difference between "bumping" the brakes and "pumping" the brakes (as ABS effectively does)? Are you saying that, when towing, you aren't supposed to stop as smoothly and quickly as possible? If so, then wouldn't you have to always plan way ahead (a good idea, of course, but not always possible)? Then, using a smooth, less-than-maximum pressure on the brakes, with ABS thus not kicking in, accomplish the task?
I am obviously not a trailerer and haven't asked my fifth-wheeling Dad about this....
And don't give me that crap about my touting education... I mentioned that ONCE and you keep harping on it like a broken record. I'm accomplishing my goal, which is to get people here to start stating facts, statistics, etc. before making conclusions based on incredible information. I can't help it if some people are blindly obedient to whatever their own choices are, such as you and a few others. But what I DO object to is making claims about OTHER vehicles such as their dependability (when they have not even been around much longer than a year), reliability, and having the gaul to assume that everyone uses the truck the way YOU do. Even when some suggested going off-roading with a Tundra, it wasn't even given consideration as a point of interest by YOU and a couple of other people on this site. Personally I DON'T care which truck you want to buy. It is your choice and you have to be happy with it. But, you look like an idiot when all you want to do is spew subjective crap and deduce conclusions from uncorrelated facts that are so far-fetched they strain the line of credibility.
If you want to compare things like towing capacity, gas mileage, hauling capacity, etc. be my guest. I invite that... that way, at least people here can distinguish what truck is good at doing what things, but, to do things like claim that having better gas mileage makes a higher quality truck, or that high sales mean that Ford has the best truck is ludicrous. Bottom line is Ford has brought a product that appeases the most customers. Claiming that a truck that has not even been around for much longer than a year has reliability and longevity issues makes it look like you are just emotional attached to your choice. It doesn't do any justice to your claim, and it makes other legitimate claims look questionable.
What I want to see AGAIN from any of the BIG3 owners or anybody for that matter is what makes the Tundra a BAD truck, or, at least one that is unreliable or incapable of lasting a long time without big problems. I've asked this probably a half dozen times, and hav been patiently awaiting an answer. A couple people have claimed that it isn't a bad truck and that they never claimed that and I appreciate their honesty. But, there are those who have made that claim and I want them to PROVE it. So, here is your chance... and let me provide a word of warning, if you are going to come up with "its a smaller truck" or "it has a shallower bed", etc. then I'll continue to rip on those and show how that does not contribute to the quality of the truck... neither does hp or towing capacity. If you were to say that the rims bend easy, or the engine doesn't always start, etc. THAT would be a MUCH more credible answer... THOSE are quality issues, so, harp on those, and for every issue with the Tundra that you bring up like that, be honest to yourself and look how your own vehicle is with that particular issue and see, in all honesty, if it does a better job. Not only will you be happier with your decision, but, you will find out the TRUE weaknesses and strengths of these vehicles and can make a choice based on things that can be more easily predicted and known rather than something fictious or unknown that can pop up later on...
Damn brain! Makes me wanna run to the nearest U-Haul and rent me a trailer with surge brakes!
I know that you probably meant to counter some of what you see as more inflammatory opinions than mine are stated, but hey, your brush is painting with too broad a stroke.
ratboy: Kumusta ka? Nope, you are in the right place; it's just a couple threads of discussion (argument) intertwining here. The point was that the towing vehicle is not tugging/pulling anymore but instead is slowing when the trailer is not. So, the trailer tries to pass the towing vehicle and the jack knife is in process....
I am fortunate that my trailer has brakes on both axles and they are disc brakes. Most trailers have drum brakes on only one set of axles. If you brake as you normally would with ABS, you set yourself up for a potential disaster.
I'm not ragging on you for doing your job well. But only the customer will be able to determine what is best for him/herself; no one else has any real interest in doing so. (Those of you who don't believe that, contact me about some high rise property in downtown Dallas I have for sale cheap!) Each of us has to filter through the sales pitches, hype, limited personal experiences of other owners and the highly biased opinions of the rest of us here in an effort to decide. Some of the points will apply, some not. That's the nature of the game. But we first need to recognize salemanship when we see/read/hear it....
I am simply asking that those who have claimed the Tundra is a worse truck should own up to it with more than just an opinion, but, should back it up with something substantial that relates to the QUALITY of the truck. I don't think that is too much to ask. I lost my patience in my last response because those who make the claim after being asked SEVERAL times have not given a sufficient answer to that question. And, given THEIR claim, it is a legitimate question. If somebody is going to claim that the Tundra is a bad quality truck, or, at least a worse quality truck than what they have, I think then need to base it on the FACTS, and not just some kind of phobia, or some article that they pulled out at the last moment.
Quite frankly, when I saw cdean's earlier post with the links, I went to other sites to see how trucks turned out and they have different outcomes, although curiously enough the Dodge RAM seems to be holding its own better than expected and better than most. I make that decision becuase I can see that it isn't subjective and I'm not BLINDLY loyal. What choice a person makes is his/her own and it is up to them what makes them happiest, but, claiming that their choice is a better quality choice just because they chose it does not constitute a rational or objective viewpoint. That is what I'm trying to get people here to do, and if you'll notice previous posts, that is what is slowly but surely happening...
I have never claimed superiority of Ford in reliability. I have never claimed Toyota to be a bad truck. I have said this numerous times. What I do say is that the Toyota is not any more proven to be more reliable than any other truck. With that, why would anyone buy a less capable truck AND pay a higher price for it on an unproven assumption of higher reliability?
Again, if you bother to read, having all that education, you will also see that I have done nothing but post just what you say I havn't. I have taken the stand from the very beginning that the Toyota has its market and some will prefer it over the big3. Some people prefer the Tundra based on this assumed reliability, which again is unproven, even in past Toyota truck models as CDean proved. Some prefer the Tundra because it is "trendy" and such. That is fine too. All I say is that most people who buy a truck, buy for its capabilities and the best price they can get it for. This is proven to be true by the mere sales number differences, whether you are too impressed by your own garbage to see it or not.
If anyone is an idiot, it would be you and your pointless "books" of drivel. After drudgedly going through your pointless crap, I fail to see any references to factual information. Are we to rely on your word of higher education and study or are there hidden facts somewhere. You say you want facts from everyone else, but yet, I see none from you. "PROVE" to me that the Tundra is more reliable than any of the big three. "PROVE" to me that there is one thing of real importance to a truck buyer that the Tundra does better than any of the big3. You can't, unless you count "YOUR" factless subjective drivel.
Gotta give your posts credit for a slight entertainment factor at best. Other than that they are a waste of space and time.
That is an old saying and I would point out that some people may be more prone to listen to you if you refrained from calling them stupid.
LOL
- Tim
I believe ABS has the same braking effect as non-ABS up until the actual point of lock up. In other words if you can control yourself from locking your brakes in a non-ABS vehicle it should be the same as in an ABS equipped vehicle.
Now, I agree that if you can control the truck's brakes from locking up, you can do it with or without ABS. The problem lies in habits. If you are in the habit of pumping the brake, even in an emergency, you are not going to use the ABS as it is intended to be used when not towing. If you are in the habit of jamming the brake pedal when not towing and continue to do this when towing, you will be in trouble if your trailer brakes work properly.
If you are disciplined enough to change you braking habits, even in an emergency, you'll be fine no matter what. Most people are not that good of drivers and should learn to brake one way or the other.
Now, as to your trailer, if they don't lock up under hard braking, you need them adjusted or the boat is just to heavy for the brake system. I've got a Ranger bay boat and the Ranger Trail trailer has very strong brakes and I did lock them up once.
As to your opinion that simply releasing the brake pedal will also release the trailer brakes, that just will not work with surge brakes. The only way to disengage the surge brakes is to move the truck faster than the trailer is trying to move.
bco
We'll just agree to disagree on the ABS issue. I do believe a surge brake should slow a trailer down and keep it straight I have no facts to say that it should never lock up but I've had 3 large boats in the last 13 years and none of the trailers have locked up or gone squirrelly on me. Lucky I guess.
Yes I am somewhat old, I started working on cars by hanging around a service station in the fifties, and helping wash and grease cars. I specialized in wheel alignment in 1971 working for a tire store. As an employee, I worked six days a week, and aligned forty to fifty vehicles a week. Each got a test drive. I have been self employed since 1977, and now "only" do twenty five to forty a week. I do all the alignments for the Chevy, Dodge and GMC dealer now, and did the GMC dealer in the city where I worked for someone else. This is a small town, and with the percent of farmers added to the others who drive trucks, I still drive over 400 trucks a years. In 23 years, that is more than 8000. I did a report run through the computer, and found just under 4000 truck since 1989, the year I computerized. Not many people have driven as many truck (or cars) as I have.
Harry
Now, I will tell you that the some of this trailer issue could be specific to disc brakes. Very few trailers have disc brakes but every Ranger boat has this and it most certainly is an issue. I know this from talking to the dealer and from personal experience. No matter what surge brakes you have, you can lock them up but it may be much more difficult with drums. No matter what brakes you have, they do not disengage when you let off the brake. They only let off when you move forward faster than the trailer.
Now, did I say anything "bad" about the Tundra???
This is only applicable to emergency braking which is what we were talking about anyway. This whole discussion began when I commented that ABS is not necessarily the most useful feature on a tow vehicle and ABS is only an used in emergency situations.
next topic
"This whole discussion began when I commented that ABS is not necessarily the most useful feature on a tow vehicle..."
you're right. and i find it amazing that when some folks bring up that domestics are better full-sized trucks because they have greater towing and hauling capacities - the first response from the toyota crowd is that not everyone uses a truck for heavy towing and hauling. now, when i mention that for many folks, abs is a great idea as a standard safety feature - you want to turn around and say that it is, except for those who tow heavy trailers.
of the big 3 and toyota, tundra should be the first among them in line to have standard abs. because according to you all, they're not used for heavy duty hauling and towing like the big 3 are. or is there something else bad about abs that we all need to know about now? for the record, i have found my abs to be exceptional to date. they will NOT lock up when you plant your foot on the brake be it in snow, ice, rain, etc. (i have tried HARD to make them). they provide great control in emergency situations. and let's face it...that's when you need control the most.
bco
"When locked up, the inertia is still pushing the trailer forward against the coupler "
If you're talking about the trailer being locked up, how is that possible?
it kinda depends on if the truck is slowing the trailer, or the trailer is slowing truck. chances are, the truck is slowing the trailer.
b) he only wanted to claim that his choice was the best and therefore it must be for everyone else
My guess would be both. For someone who claims I don't read, perhaps he should read the number of times I've asked him to refrain from using the education reference. But, I might as well be talking to a wall, I'll get the equivalent response... ignorance.
In the future, F150rules, if you are going to make a claim about something, you had better back it up with more than just cognitive dissonance over your own purchase. I never once said that I felt the Tundra was the best truck. I actually TEST drove them all. After that and seeing some of the links and other reviews though, it is obvious to me that if there is a winner in the quality category it would be the Dodge. I can't claim Toyota on this one because it hasn't been around that long, and, it isn't fair to use other vehicles if they are to be singled out instead of the entire fleet of the company.
And one last comment. I don't need to prove the Tundra is better. First off, I never said it was. But, when somebody makes a claim, THEY have to prove it. The burden of proof is on them. All I have to do is ask for evidence, and, in this case, I didn't get that for the claim of quality. We're not living in a "guilty until proven innocent" society. If you call me a murderer, you have to prove it, 100%, beyond a shadow of a doubt. In these discussions, you can't get that refined, but, it can be close enough to convince others. But don't think that just because you bought something that it is the best, or worse yet, the best for others... people differ and their choices differ. Anyhow, this has been exhausted enough. You're not going to own up to your claim, and, I'm going to keep waiting until you do, but, it is obvious by your last statement that you NOW deny it... which, led me to my initial two choices for why you would do that.