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Some auto manufacturers make you buy there very top of the line before getting all the safety equipment. Seinna for example. VW does not and I'm sure there are others that don't make you buy all the bells and whistles.
Some auto manufacturers make you buy there very top of the line before getting all the safety equipment. Seinna for example
Huh? First vehicle ever to offer 3-row curtain airbags .. now standard on all trims. VSC/Trac is the first option available on LE's. What other safety equipment do you want?
"Some auto manufacturers make you buy there very top of the line before getting all the safety equipment. Seinna for example. VW does not..."
Are you serious??? Try configuring a new Passat 2.0T with a manual transmission and anything even nearing a full option package. Can't be done. Personally I'd love to know what the paint color, seating material or wheel type has to do with the choice of transmission. Talk about restrictive. Then there's the Passat with the new VR6, that sucker is even more restrictive.
Vehicle features, dealer reputation, experience of friends were THE most important considerations for me in last 2 purchases. I read CR and Edmunds but their biased written portions have no value to me.
I was MORE satisfied with my purchase of the 2002 Chrysler T&C LX than with the more recent purchases of the 2006 Sienna LE.
I was VERY DISSATISFIED with my 1970 Dodge passenger van which was one of the worst vehicles I have ever owned. I did NOT buy another Chrysler Corp vehicle until after the company became DaimlerChrysler.
The assertion that the Accord and Camry have priced themselves out of reach of most folks is simply untrue. In fact, quite the opposite- feature for dollar, the Camcords are more affordable than they were in the 90s even...
If you sift back through the Car and Driver archives, for example, one will find 1994 (September, I believe) comparison test including a Camry DX that waxed almost $20 grand. For the SAME MONEY today, one can purchase a Camry CE with many more features, such as side curtain airbags, steering wheel audio controls, power accessories, etc.
Are the Camcords more expensive than the Sonata? Yes, no doubt. Are they "out of reach" for most? Not the nearly one million that buy them, annually.
I had a 2004 Toyota Sienna LE. If I wanted the curtain bags I would have to pay $5,000 more for their top model. I didn't keep it because it did not drive well in the wind and the automatic transmission did not like the mountains. As a result, I only keep it a year. I consider it the second worse vehicle I have ever owned. A 57 Chevrolet was the worst.
I traded in the Sienna for a 05 Passat TDI and couldn't be more happy. The TDI offered all the safety package and gets great fuel mileage. Hand calculated I AVERAGE right at 35 MPG.
Some where you got faulty info on the 2004 Sienna. Base price as ~$26000 and the first option package back then was SAC Airbags and VSC/Trac for about $2000.
In 2005 the SAC Airbags went standard.
The Top of the line model goes for $41000 so there was a miscommunication somewhere back then.
I wasn't debating which was the better vehicle (and still won't). The issue is that VW is one of the worst when it comes to limiting options based on which engine and transmission the buyer wants. For those of us who wish to stir our own gears, VW has limited us to Passats with the smallest of the engine offerings and virtually no options at all. Even if any given buyer was willing to put up with a lame slush box (I'm not) so that they could have their choice of seating materials, paint colors and wheel styles, they're still restricted from the rest of the optional goodies unless they want the larger (largest) engine. For things like AWD, Power Memory Seating, Climate Control, Rain Sensing Wipers, Xenon headlights, the less fuel efficient 3.6 liter VR6 engine is required.
What does the 2006 VW Passat TDI cost new? How does the cost compare with a 2006 Camry? (The Sienna CE can be purchased for about $ 1000 more than the Camry if both have a V6 engine). I am glad to read that someone got a satisfactory Volkswagen because I will never buy one again and neither will my niece or a friend's daughter. The niece got rid of her VW Jetta and got a Toyota Corolla after the VW just quit while she was driving on the freeway. A NEW 2006 Sienna CE has a powerful V6, 5 speed AT, driver front airbag and front passenger airbag with Advanced Airbag system, driver and front passenger front seat-mounted side and three-row side curtain airbags as STANDARD equipment for MSRP $ 24,380 and will seat 7 people in more comfort than the VW Passat will seat 5. Hand calculated my 2006 Sienna LE is averaging 26.1 MPG and I do not have to endure the noise and smell of a diesel engine.
No. I was just pointing out that a safe minivan is within the same price range as a midsize sedan since the poster stated the VW Passat had replaced a 2004 Sienna. :shades: (Delete both postings if they are out of order).
Thank you all so much for your advice. You've given me a lot to chew on, but also helped to clarify some things I probably wasn't fully considering--particularly the possible used options. Not sure why I haven't considered that much, but it is worth thinking about.
Three additional questions: 1) You mentioned certified pre-owned. Those are safe bets for cars in this class, too? (I've had it in my head that you buy "certified pre-owned", and it means something, when you're buying a luxury car like a Lexus or Mercedes--otherwise, they're all really just "used" with a fancy name.) 2) Does anyone anticipate the cars in this segment possibly being offered with lower interest rates later this summer? (Is there any reason to anticipate the manufacturers might need to unload a lot of them at some point in the summer?) 3) And would I likely be better off if I waited to buy until the summer (is that a better time of year to buy the car?) or is now as good a time as any? For some cars the deals they were offering last summer were out of control. But I know many of those were on trucks and SUVs. Does this segment see its fair share of deals, too? Because I can wait until August or September if need be.
A Certified Preowned Vehicle is one that has been prequalified though the shop of a specific major Manufacturer; i.e. Honda's through a Honda store, Acura's through an Acura store, Toyota's through a Toyota store.
You often get a better warranty than with a new vehicle!!!!
The Preowned vehicle has to be brought back to factory condition essentially or it doesnt qualify.
Sometimes the financing rate is lower than the new car rate. Certified Camry's now are lower than the new '07 Camry rate. With good credit you can get 60 or 72 months if you wish.
There's very little difference from now 'til the end of the summer on new vehicles except maybe the new Camry which just came out.
OTOH auto financing rates are tied to the Federal Reserve rates and they are moving upward all the time. Earlier is better than later in this case.
In early 2005 I started looking into a replacement vehicle for my 14 year old Chrysler. I was thinking I'd have to get a "newer" used car, possibly a "certified" used car. Then I discovered the Hyundai Sonata.
The price I paid for a new '05 Sonata GLS SV last April ($16,700 before taxes and other fees to the government) compared very favorably with 1 or 2 year old mid-sized cars from other brands. Plus, I got the Hyundai warrantee.
Of course the '06 is a different car and a little higher priced than the '05. You shouldn't go wrong with a "certified" used car, but you should also check out the Sonata. I think some post have said you can get a GLS 4 cyl for less than I paid, don't have time right now to check back on the previous posts.
No matter what, you pay for it. Its included on your used car price. I know for sure because when I test drove 03 TL, the sale person told me he can make that TL certified with 10/100000 warranty for another $1,500. No one can beat Hyundai & Kia's 5/60000-10/100000 factory warranty, on the top of $5,000 to $8,000 cheaper prices compares to others already.
BTW, Did you guys notice the Chrysler went back to 3/36000 warranty? There must be reasons Y.
If the car is unreliable enough, that you need an extended warranty. Maybe you don't really want that car, because it's unreliable. I wasted money on an extended warranty when I bought my 92 Accord. I could have bought a whole lot of temperature control knobs for that $600. The temperature control knob was the only thing changed in the entire 100,000 miles. What a waste. Of course, if you're buying a domestic car, you may need an extended warranty. I wouldn't buy one of those either.
It's like any insurance. You can buy extended warranties for just about any car (probably up to 5 or more years old). I get offers for extended warranties in the mail all the time. Chances are you won't need it. And that's where they make their money. And you are paying extra for it, new or certified used. Nothing is ever FREE.
The key point is that Toyota wants the recently traded vehicles to maintain their value. It's good for Toyota because it maintains the price of Used vehicles which in turn supports the prices of current NEW vehicles.
It gives the Used buyer a huge sense of comfort that Toyota has looked at this vehicle, approved it and will stand behind it for 100,000 miles. Until my recent Prius this is all that I bought - Certified Used Vehicles with 45-60K miles on them.
It's included in the price of the Used vehicle. What you are mentioning is an extended warranty ( VSA in Toyota terms ) which is extra and covers the rest of the vehicle for up to 100K mi.
What I mentioned above is not extra it's included in the price of the Certified Vehicles.
All warranties including new warranties are insurance policies.
I'm not sure if you are trying to call me or someone else lazy but I do a lot of research before I buy almost anything. And you better believe that I will look at a company's reputation on reliability before I'm spending my money, especially if I'm keeping something for a long time.
Honda and Toyota have proven themselves over the years and it certainly isn't just me who thinks that matters.
Now if I bought something I didn't like or if it didn't fit my lifestyle just because it had a good track record, you might have a point.
I have owned Accords ( 92-12 years, and 03-3 years) since October of 91. Have spent under $1000 total during that time on repairs. I think that's pretty good. I have an 06 Chevy impala in my driveway right now (rental because my Accord got rear-ended). It can't hold a candle to my 03 Accord. My father has a Chevy Malibu, and has spent $1500 on repairs, just in the last 4 years. Once you buy a Honda, you never go back to domestic. 9 out of 10 times.
Backy says, "Mazda is going back to a shorter warranty also."
to be a bit more accurate, some parts of mazda's warranty is shorter, other parts longer. b to b, 3 yrs, 36k (was 4yrs, 48k). powertrain has been increased to 6yrs / 60k from 4/48. interesting decision if you ask me...but then again, powertrain stuff is the most expensive where the other stuff tends to rear it's head relatively quickly (ie electrical, leaks, squeaks etc).
I think part of it also is that aside from the frame and the assembly itself most of the components and subassemblies are made by outside subcontractors whereas the powertrains are usually made by the auto maker itself.
Thus on one hand you are warranteeing someoneelse'w work 3/36 while on the other you are warranteeing your own work 6/60.
With the availability of internet resources, it would be pretty hard to ignore the numerous auto journalists reviews and customer testemonials in this day and age. I would say to any would-be buyer, "Do your research". There are a lot of cars out there that offer lots of bells and whistles, but when it comes down to it, no one wants to sacrifice safety, comfort or reliability.
As a Sonata owner, I'm extremely happy with the car. I recently made a long trip and put about 5500kms on the car. Absolutely no problems to report. After nine hours at the wheel, my elbows were a bit sore (not enough padding there for my boney elbows), but my back, legs and neck felt great.
Re: the extended warranty issue. On my last car which was a Mazda BTW I got the extended warranty. And boy was I glad since I had to replace the steering rack 3 times in 4 years. If you're looking for great basic transportation, with a fair amount of pep in the V6, and a host of safety features, test drive an 06 Sonata. You may be surprised at how much Hyundai has moved up the automotive ladder.
The Passat is a good car, but too pricey these days. One of the cars I looked at is a Passat 3.6 4MO w/Sport #2 and NAV. It was $40k :surprise: That said, the DSG is a damn good auto tranny for one who likes to shift. F1 type paddle shifters with nano second shift times.
Agreed, I had a B5 with a 2.8, GIAC ECU, Coilovers, MilTek pipes,a dn some other goodies. You can't replace teh clutch/stick, but like I said in my post, DSG is a damn good alternative if manual isn't available.
"...but like I said in my post, DSG is a damn good alternative if manual isn't available."
Fortunately in the midsize sedan market there are a number of alternatives to the sell-out (as in pandering to the lowest common denominator) Automatic only Passat. Geez, even Honda now offers a high end version of the Accord with a V6 6-Speed (borrowed from the TL as I understand it). Then there are the stalwarts who have long offered manual equipped sedans (in anything above strippo trim levels); Audi of course offers the 6-Speed in both the A3 (only for the 2.0T) and the A4, BMWs can be had with a stick across the board for the 3-Series and 5-Series. Other offerings such as the Cadillac CTS, Saab 93, Lexus IS250 and Infiniti G35 are worth a look as well. Speaking strictly for myself, I'd rather have the phenomenally ugly (to my eye) CTS 6-Speed over even the slickest shifting DSG Passat.
I guess the other way of saying it is that for those of us who like to shift as much as I do, not even DSG like transmissions are an acceptable alternative.
With that said, I wasn't intending to hijack this discussion over the issue of manual transmissions. I understand that many folks couldn't be bothered and as such Automatics make up probably over 95% of the sedan market, good bad or otherwise. What I was trying to point out is that VW has arbitrarily restricted the bestest and slickest goodies for their cars with the least fuel efficient drive trains. What's up with that? I mean, I cannot imagine that there is nobody else out there (besides me) who would be interested in a B6 Passat 2.0T with a 6-Speed (or even an Automatic one for that matter) that has all of the doodads and trimmings that are available only on the Passat 3.6.
manufacturers will decouple engine selection from trim level. If delears start reporting lost sales because of this manufacturer must adapt or disappear.
I was looking (and didn't buy because of price) at the Passat with all of the goodies. There were options only available on the 3.6 that were deal breakers by not being available on the 2.0t. Heck, for the cost of a 3.6 w/ the options I wanted, I could have gotten a B7 A4 2.0t with those options and the S-Line package with the 18" rims, sport suspension and Quattro.
I guess the other way of saying it is that for those of us who like to shift as much as I do, not even DSG like transmissions are an acceptable alternative. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Reminds me of the old "Auto vs Manual" wars. (I'm dating myself!)
The war is over, the autos won by a huge margin. The DSG-type trannys will get better and better, and people will see the benefits of them. I have no doubts that my next mid-size car will have a CVT or DSG type tranny. But that will be in 10 years, when my warranty runs out.
"The war is over, the autos won by a huge margin."
That's like saying that the Mac is dead because the WinTel platforms are so much more common. Sorry, not buying. I use Intel based platforms (AMD really) exclusively with Windows, Unix, UnixWare and Linux because they are the best tool for my jobs. I drive manual transmissions because nothing can even come close to the level of control provided by a true three pedal manual. Not the SMG, not the DSG, not nothing.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, if there ever comes a time when the last manufacturer making cars with manual transmissions announces the end of the line for their three pedal equipped models, I'll go out and buy enough of that last model to last me for the rest of my life. That and I'll open up a botique car business that specializes in converting cars to manual gearboxes. ;-)
- When I lived in San Diego, Los Angeles and then Atlanta I drove a 1970 Dodge Challenger 4-Speed with a 3500# pressure plate. Sitting in LA traffic might could well have been the only time that I even thought about wanting an Automatic as there were times when the toes on my left foot would go to sleep. :-/ - When I moved to Detroit with the Challenger I didn't want it to rust out so I bought a 1979 5-Speed VW Scirocco, which was the car that I had when I moved to Chicago after that. - While living in Chicago I followed the Scirocco up with a 1981 Audi 4000 5-Speed, a 1982 Audi GT Coupe 5-Speed, a 1985 Dodge Daytona Turbo 5-Speed and a 1989 Chrysler LeBaron GTC 5-Speed. - When I shed the LeBaron in 1992 I moved to NYC where I managed to live for all of 3 months sans car. My first car there was a 1993 Ford Probe GT 5-Speed, which was followed up by a 1995 VR6 Passat GLX 5-Speed, a 1999 BMW 328i 5-Speed and finally a 2002 BMW 530i SP 5-Speed. - I now live in the Boston area and yes, you guessed it, I'm shopping for another car, this time with a three pedal 6-Speed.
See a pattern there? All told, I figure I have nearly three quarters of a million miles of driving manual transmission equipped cars in heavily trafficed metropolitan areas. Sorry, the traffic in DC and Northern VA simply doesn't impress me. ;-)
Sorry, the traffic in DC and Northern VA simply doesn't impress me.
Then you haven't driven here in the past 5 years or so. I travel all over and it isn't that ours is worse during rush hour, the problem is that it is like that all day long..thanks to Government flex hours.
Over the last five years I've had a fair amount of stick time in New York, Chicago, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Dallas, Paris, London, Stuttgart, Munich, Taipei, and yes, Washington DC and its surrounding areas as well. Said another way, there ain't nothin' that any of those metropolitan areas can throw at me that would make me wish I had an automatic transmission.
The absolute irony of this situation is that while my business partner and I are launching a new business, we have shed our nice cars in the name of fiscal conservativism and are driving a couple of, ummm, less than desirable older vehicles. In my case I'm driving what used to be our third car (which we kept for runs to the town dump and for errands such as home depot). Unfortunately this is my wife's old minivan with an automatic transmission. Why is that so ironic? Simple, instead of commuting into Boston like everyone else around us, I commute the other way. My current drive consists of a few traffic lights and some heavy traffic getting out of our town, and once out, I drive another forty or so miles (split 60/40 between two lane country roads and Interstate) with only one traffic light, one traffic circle and one yellow blinker for the rest of the trip. Perfect stick shift roads.
Please post a link to this. I have searched IIHS website and Google and find nothing other than the recent news of the Kia Sedona receiving top honors for minivans. Not to mention the Entourage is a minivan and this is a sedan discussion.
Among the eight current minivan designs the Institute has rated, the Sedona is the only one that earns good ratings in all three Institute tests (this vehicle also will be sold as the 2007 Hyundai Entourage later this spring) :shades:
Comments
Fuel is up and going up even more.
Some auto manufacturers make you buy there very top of the line before getting all the safety equipment. Seinna for example. VW does not and I'm sure there are others that don't make you buy all the bells and whistles.
Huh? First vehicle ever to offer 3-row curtain airbags .. now standard on all trims. VSC/Trac is the first option available on LE's. What other safety equipment do you want?
Are you serious??? Try configuring a new Passat 2.0T with a manual transmission and anything even nearing a full option package. Can't be done. Personally I'd love to know what the paint color, seating material or wheel type has to do with the choice of transmission. Talk about restrictive. Then there's the Passat with the new VR6, that sucker is even more restrictive.
Best Regards,
Shipo
I was MORE satisfied with my purchase of the 2002 Chrysler T&C LX than with the more recent purchases of the 2006 Sienna LE.
I was VERY DISSATISFIED with my 1970 Dodge passenger van which was one of the worst vehicles I have ever owned.
I did NOT buy another Chrysler Corp vehicle until after the company became DaimlerChrysler.
I will NEVER own another Volkswagen. :lemon:
If you sift back through the Car and Driver archives, for example, one will find 1994 (September, I believe) comparison test including a Camry DX that waxed almost $20 grand. For the SAME MONEY today, one can purchase a Camry CE with many more features, such as side curtain airbags, steering wheel audio controls, power accessories, etc.
Are the Camcords more expensive than the Sonata? Yes, no doubt. Are they "out of reach" for most? Not the nearly one million that buy them, annually.
~alpha
I traded in the Sienna for a 05 Passat TDI and couldn't be more happy. The TDI offered all the safety package and gets great fuel mileage. Hand calculated I AVERAGE right at 35 MPG.
In 2005 the SAC Airbags went standard.
The Top of the line model goes for $41000 so there was a miscommunication somewhere back then.
I'm certain you will enjoy your Passat.
Talk about stupid option combinations. Geez.
Best Regards,
Shipo
I am glad to read that someone got a satisfactory Volkswagen because I will never buy one again and neither will my niece or a friend's daughter. The niece got rid of her VW Jetta and got a Toyota Corolla after the VW just quit while she was driving on the freeway.
A NEW 2006 Sienna CE has a powerful V6, 5 speed AT, driver front airbag and front passenger airbag with Advanced Airbag system, driver and front passenger front seat-mounted side and three-row side curtain airbags as STANDARD equipment for MSRP $ 24,380 and will seat 7 people in more comfort than the VW Passat will seat 5.
Hand calculated my 2006 Sienna LE is averaging 26.1 MPG and I do not have to endure the noise and smell of a diesel engine.
(Delete both postings if they are out of order).
Three additional questions:
1) You mentioned certified pre-owned. Those are safe bets for cars in this class, too? (I've had it in my head that you buy "certified pre-owned", and it means something, when you're buying a luxury car like a Lexus or Mercedes--otherwise, they're all really just "used" with a fancy name.)
2) Does anyone anticipate the cars in this segment possibly being offered with lower interest rates later this summer? (Is there any reason to anticipate the manufacturers might need to unload a lot of them at some point in the summer?)
3) And would I likely be better off if I waited to buy until the summer (is that a better time of year to buy the car?) or is now as good a time as any? For some cars the deals they were offering last summer were out of control. But I know many of those were on trucks and SUVs. Does this segment see its fair share of deals, too? Because I can wait until August or September if need be.
Thank you again SO MUCH.
A Certified Preowned Vehicle is one that has been prequalified though the shop of a specific major Manufacturer; i.e. Honda's through a Honda store, Acura's through an Acura store, Toyota's through a Toyota store.
You often get a better warranty than with a new vehicle!!!!
The Preowned vehicle has to be brought back to factory condition essentially or it doesnt qualify.
Sometimes the financing rate is lower than the new car rate. Certified Camry's now are lower than the new '07 Camry rate. With good credit you can get 60 or 72 months if you wish.
There's very little difference from now 'til the end of the summer on new vehicles except maybe the new Camry which just came out.
OTOH auto financing rates are tied to the Federal Reserve rates and they are moving upward all the time. Earlier is better than later in this case.
The price I paid for a new '05 Sonata GLS SV last April ($16,700 before taxes and other fees to the government) compared very favorably with 1 or 2 year old mid-sized cars from other brands. Plus, I got the Hyundai warrantee.
Of course the '06 is a different car and a little higher priced than the '05. You shouldn't go wrong with a "certified" used car, but you should also check out the Sonata. I think some post have said you can get a GLS 4 cyl for less than I paid, don't have time right now to check back on the previous posts.
Check them all...and good luck.
Could you give more detailed explanation for your following statement?
You often get a better warranty than with a new vehicle!!!!
No one can beat Hyundai & Kia's 5/60000-10/100000 factory warranty, on the top of $5,000 to $8,000 cheaper prices compares to others already.
BTW, Did you guys notice the Chrysler went back to 3/36000 warranty? There must be reasons Y.
Mitsubishi has a comparable warranty to Hyundai/Kia. But the cars...
3/36 Basic
5/60 Powertrain
Certified: Balance of the Factory warranties.. extended to
7/100 Powertrain
Plus (not in a new car warranty ) it includes
7/100 Roadside Assistance
Over nite accomodations if away from home
7/100 Roadside Assistance
Over nite accomodations if away from home"
Kdhspyder - Can you explain why Toyota would do this on a used car, but not on a new one? How does this make sence?
thanks
It gives the Used buyer a huge sense of comfort that Toyota has looked at this vehicle, approved it and will stand behind it for 100,000 miles. Until my recent Prius this is all that I bought - Certified Used Vehicles with 45-60K miles on them.
What I mentioned above is not extra it's included in the price of the Certified Vehicles.
All warranties including new warranties are insurance policies.
Honda and Toyota have proven themselves over the years and it certainly isn't just me who thinks that matters.
Now if I bought something I didn't like or if it didn't fit my lifestyle just because it had a good track record, you might have a point.
to be a bit more accurate, some parts of mazda's warranty is shorter, other parts longer. b to b, 3 yrs, 36k (was 4yrs, 48k). powertrain has been increased to 6yrs / 60k from 4/48. interesting decision if you ask me...but then again, powertrain stuff is the most expensive where the other stuff tends to rear it's head relatively quickly (ie electrical, leaks, squeaks etc).
Thus on one hand you are warranteeing someoneelse'w work 3/36 while on the other you are warranteeing your own work 6/60.
As a Sonata owner, I'm extremely happy with the car. I recently made a long trip and put about 5500kms on the car. Absolutely no problems to report. After nine hours at the wheel, my elbows were a bit sore (not enough padding there for my boney elbows), but my back, legs and neck felt great.
Re: the extended warranty issue. On my last car which was a Mazda BTW I got the extended warranty. And boy was I glad since I had to replace the steering rack 3 times in 4 years. If you're looking for great basic transportation, with a fair amount of pep in the V6, and a host of safety features, test drive an 06 Sonata. You may be surprised at how much Hyundai has moved up the automotive ladder.
Not!
My idea of shifting has nothing to do with Flappy Paddeling (gosh, I might break a nail), it has everything to do with clutch work and gear stirring.
When I think of properly setup Passats I think of my little brother's Passat Wagon with the W8 6-Speed manual. No Tiptronics or DSGs need apply. ;-)
Best Regards,
Shipo
- left headlight keeps burning out
- dash lighting will not adjust (rheostat?)
Sounds like an electrical problem to me. No biggie, but just goes to show you that the Accord is not completely trouble free.
Fortunately in the midsize sedan market there are a number of alternatives to the sell-out (as in pandering to the lowest common denominator) Automatic only Passat. Geez, even Honda now offers a high end version of the Accord with a V6 6-Speed (borrowed from the TL as I understand it). Then there are the stalwarts who have long offered manual equipped sedans (in anything above strippo trim levels); Audi of course offers the 6-Speed in both the A3 (only for the 2.0T) and the A4, BMWs can be had with a stick across the board for the 3-Series and 5-Series. Other offerings such as the Cadillac CTS, Saab 93, Lexus IS250 and Infiniti G35 are worth a look as well. Speaking strictly for myself, I'd rather have the phenomenally ugly (to my eye) CTS 6-Speed over even the slickest shifting DSG Passat.
I guess the other way of saying it is that for those of us who like to shift as much as I do, not even DSG like transmissions are an acceptable alternative.
With that said, I wasn't intending to hijack this discussion over the issue of manual transmissions. I understand that many folks couldn't be bothered and as such Automatics make up probably over 95% of the sedan market, good bad or otherwise. What I was trying to point out is that VW has arbitrarily restricted the bestest and slickest goodies for their cars with the least fuel efficient drive trains. What's up with that? I mean, I cannot imagine that there is nobody else out there (besides me) who would be interested in a B6 Passat 2.0T with a 6-Speed (or even an Automatic one for that matter) that has all of the doodads and trimmings that are available only on the Passat 3.6.
Best Regards,
Shipo
If delears start reporting lost sales because of this manufacturer must adapt or disappear.
Krzys
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Reminds me of the old "Auto vs Manual" wars. (I'm dating myself!)
The war is over, the autos won by a huge margin. The DSG-type trannys will get better and better, and people will see the benefits of them. I have no doubts that my next mid-size car will have a CVT or DSG type tranny. But that will be in 10 years, when my warranty runs out.
That's like saying that the Mac is dead because the WinTel platforms are so much more common. Sorry, not buying. I use Intel based platforms (AMD really) exclusively with Windows, Unix, UnixWare and Linux because they are the best tool for my jobs. I drive manual transmissions because nothing can even come close to the level of control provided by a true three pedal manual. Not the SMG, not the DSG, not nothing.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, if there ever comes a time when the last manufacturer making cars with manual transmissions announces the end of the line for their three pedal equipped models, I'll go out and buy enough of that last model to last me for the rest of my life. That and I'll open up a botique car business that specializes in converting cars to manual gearboxes. ;-)
Best Regards,
Shipo
- When I lived in San Diego, Los Angeles and then Atlanta I drove a 1970 Dodge Challenger 4-Speed with a 3500# pressure plate. Sitting in LA traffic might could well have been the only time that I even thought about wanting an Automatic as there were times when the toes on my left foot would go to sleep. :-/
- When I moved to Detroit with the Challenger I didn't want it to rust out so I bought a 1979 5-Speed VW Scirocco, which was the car that I had when I moved to Chicago after that.
- While living in Chicago I followed the Scirocco up with a 1981 Audi 4000 5-Speed, a 1982 Audi GT Coupe 5-Speed, a 1985 Dodge Daytona Turbo 5-Speed and a 1989 Chrysler LeBaron GTC 5-Speed.
- When I shed the LeBaron in 1992 I moved to NYC where I managed to live for all of 3 months sans car. My first car there was a 1993 Ford Probe GT 5-Speed, which was followed up by a 1995 VR6 Passat GLX 5-Speed, a 1999 BMW 328i 5-Speed and finally a 2002 BMW 530i SP 5-Speed.
- I now live in the Boston area and yes, you guessed it, I'm shopping for another car, this time with a three pedal 6-Speed.
See a pattern there? All told, I figure I have nearly three quarters of a million miles of driving manual transmission equipped cars in heavily trafficed metropolitan areas. Sorry, the traffic in DC and Northern VA simply doesn't impress me. ;-)
Best Regards,
Shipo
Then you haven't driven here in the past 5 years or so.
Over the last five years I've had a fair amount of stick time in New York, Chicago, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Dallas, Paris, London, Stuttgart, Munich, Taipei, and yes, Washington DC and its surrounding areas as well. Said another way, there ain't nothin' that any of those metropolitan areas can throw at me that would make me wish I had an automatic transmission.
The absolute irony of this situation is that while my business partner and I are launching a new business, we have shed our nice cars in the name of fiscal conservativism and are driving a couple of, ummm, less than desirable older vehicles. In my case I'm driving what used to be our third car (which we kept for runs to the town dump and for errands such as home depot). Unfortunately this is my wife's old minivan with an automatic transmission. Why is that so ironic? Simple, instead of commuting into Boston like everyone else around us, I commute the other way. My current drive consists of a few traffic lights and some heavy traffic getting out of our town, and once out, I drive another forty or so miles (split 60/40 between two lane country roads and Interstate) with only one traffic light, one traffic circle and one yellow blinker for the rest of the trip. Perfect stick shift roads.
Best Regards,
Shipo
IIHS Press Release
Among the eight current minivan designs the Institute has rated, the Sedona is the only one that earns good ratings in all three Institute tests (this vehicle also will be sold as the 2007 Hyundai Entourage later this spring) :shades: