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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread
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I don't know about GM, but I have not had any problem with Ford belts and hoses. I've replaced serpetine belts at maybe 60K mi, because these are relatively cheap to replace, I think they could go longer. Timing belts have gone 100K and 10 years, though.
My biggest issue with Ford has been gaskets :lemon: on their V6 engines...and I would not even mind that so much, if not for the huge labor cost to replace them. The Ford interiors and bodies have held up very well for me.
But you were wrong about the Accord VP not having these features. My Accord VP has all power accessories and AC and cruise and remote entry, plus side and curtain airbags and ABS. On the Fusion 06 model the airbags and ABS are both options costing $518 each.
I noticed Ford has a $2K rebate on the 06 Fusion now, making it a very good buy. After adding the airbags and ABS the Fusion has an invoice of $17975 (carsdirect.com), after rebate, $15975, and dealers will most likely accept $500 below invoice, so that makes out to be $15475, which is about $825 cheaper than my Accord VP. Had this price structure been available, I might've bought the Fusion. I recall at the time when I was looking, the rebate was $1500.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I am not big on audio systems, but two speakers??? C'mon, you have to be kidding.
On the plus side, imo, it does not have chrome trim around windows.
I can see why some folks might get turned off by the lack of stuff like auto mirros, but to me it's not worth the extra $2k to get the LX model which has these. Seriously, when was the last time you adjusted the mirrors? The stuff I DO care though, like the side and curtain airbags, ABS, auto window and locks, and fuel economy, this car does deliver.
Do you really believe this? I really would like to know if this is the way Honda/Toyota fans think
No, this is not the way Honda/Toyota fans think. That's a blanket statement, and an ignorant one to boot.
I agree with elroy when he says he feels like the cars "aged" faster ten years ago than a Toyota of ten years ago, but I certainly don't think any modern Ford/Chevy/Hyundai will leave you stranded in the first 7 years of ownership... Of course with ANY car company there will be anomolies and instances of car trouble from near-new (look at the 160 transmission failures early on in the new Camry for example)... no carmaker is perfect, and I feel like any of the cars in this forum would get you 100,000 miles without leaving you stranded from mechanical failure.
THAT'S an opinion from a member of a three-Honda family (that has had 15 others since the early 80s!)
I haven't been brainwashed by media (i STILL don't hear much in the media about any of these cars, so I struggle to see how one can be brainwashed). I hear more about the financial struggles of the domestics than I do of their product line.
I have learned to be a repeat buyer of something that works well for me. I have an 11 year old Accord with 166,000 miles and has cost just over $600 in repairs (2 repairs in all) in its lifetime. THAT is what made me a repeat buyer of Honda. Just like your good experiences with Ranger, Escape, etc... led you back to Ford every time. Would a Contour from 1996 be just as reliable as my 1996 Accord? I don't know. All I do know is that my trust in Honda's quality has been backed up by something the media can't teach me; PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, just like elroy's with his 92 Accord and 140,000 miles.
It's not a superiority thing; it's a matter of "if what I'm doing works, don't fix it."
Miles per Gallon is reliant on driving conditions. If I'm stuck in traffic for five hours, I'll have 5 MPG maybe. If I'm cruising at 75 MPH with the A/C off, I sometimes see close to 40 MPG (not a trip computer, this is doing the calculations myself at the pump).
I want this stuff. In todays day and age, there is no reason for auto mirrors, door locks, windows, and a host of other things, not to be standard on every car. Years ago, A/C was an option. Find one car today, except for maybe the cheapest of the cheap, the doesn't have A/C on the dealers lot.
Yeah, well, to offer a high-quality sedan with lots of pep, midsize room, 26/34 MPG, and a price under $18k when you deal, they have to cut costs somewhere.
BTW, Civic DX, for ~$15k has no A/C...Dodge Caliber SE for $14k has no A/C ($1,000 option on Dodge)... I could find more. If you live in Buffalo, NY like one of my friends, you RARELY need A/C (according to him).
I live in Alabama and DEFINITELY need A/C!
Strange, because the 2006 brochure I have indicates no height adjuster and no remote trunk release. :confuse:
Did I do something to it? Yes, I drove it. Was I not supposed to do that? 5 cars, in 20 years, that's only an average of about 4 years per car. You got rid of them just in time, I'd say. You get tired of GM vehicles too huh (4 years)? They get old fast don't they?
I lived upstate, you're right, didn't really need A/C unless you did. And when you did you really did.
Actually my Accord VP does have all these except for the auto mirrors.
Let me think. 93 kept for 10 years and 150K miles; no hoses or tubes needed replacing.
Let me think. 98 kept for almost 9 years; no hoses or tube needed replacing.
Let me think. 89 Century kept for 9 years; ho hoses or tubes need replacing.
Do you live in an area with industries with chemical pollutions in the air that deteriorate plastics/rubber? Did you have antifreeze leak or spray onto the hoses? Those may be things that affect longevity or earlier materials.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Well, I understand what you are saying, but what you ARE paying for with an Accord VP is a VERY smooth engine, a very quiet car, a much larger car than an Accent/Fit/Caliber/Civic; much more comfortable than either of those, etc...
I see your point though, so I'm not really DISagreeing, just trying to see both sides of the idea.
If there are pollutants in the air, they dry-rot Chevy hoses, and have no effect on Honda hoses, which are twice as old.
Did you have antifreeze leak or spray onto the hoses?
No.
The simple fact is, the Chevy hoses are made of cheaper material. You can tell just by looking at them.
BTW, is this Evergreen Ford that's doing this?
My bad it is $14,977 not $14,777.. I called the dealer just for fun and was told these have auto windows and ABS, no side air bags and they are 06 models...
I thought you would get a kick out of that. :P
But that's how you come accross with your Honda rantings.
Those are your words, as usual; not his. He simply said he felt that GM and Ford had a long way to go, and that his decision was not influenced by the media. Only YOU said these words: A Ford/GM/Chrysler will never, ever be as good as a Honda/Toyota right?
But that's how you come across with your Honda rantings."
For the record, I have never, ever said Honda builds terrible vehicles. What I am saying is there are alternatives in todays market to both Honda/Toyota. They no longer have the reliability/quality wrapped up in todays auto world. Much of this stems from constantly being beat in the head that nothing comes close to a Honda/Toyota by the media over the last 10 years. Some of it, yes was true back in the 80s'early 90's!. Heck, an acquaintance even bought a Suzuki Verona and that is really not a bad car, for a low cost family sedan. Would I buy one, no, I like more style. Choice is nice..
Hmmm.
The company that does maintenance work for our digital imaging and printing equipment uses Fords for their technicians.
According to one technician, a Mercedes M would be cheaper to lease than the Fords but it wouldn't look good for a technician to pull up in a Mercedes.
All I know is that I would personally be much better off leasing a Honda over a Ford sedan in terms of cost. Sorry, what some pizza joint uses for their delivery vehicles doesn't urge me to go out and get that vehicle.
Aren't most Suzuki's rebadged Daewoos (Reno, Verona, Forenza)? Just curious. I think Suzuki's models are actually nice looking vehicles, although seemingly old-school as far as technology goes (Verona had a 6-cylinder that makes only 155 hp, Forenza has an Iron-Block 2.0L engine that makes less horsepower than a Civic of 11 years ago, and delivers only 22 MPG (worse than any of the I-4 midsizers, and a couple of the V-6 models!)
Hyundai Sonata V6 GLS 2006 model. Can't find any cost cuts anywhere in my car. Has it all then some. paid $16,495 before TT&L. I'm happy.
I'd never buy a Hyundai. Negative karma......
I would not say it can't happen. But do I think it will happen? Probably not.
It would take a lot of changes. Their whole philosophy (way of thinking), needs to change. The percentage of profits (if there are any), spent on research and development, needs a large increase.
Different strokes.
I'd never buy a Hyundai. Negative karma......
Only negative karma for those who: 1). never owned a recent Hyundai product, and 2). are more concerned about perceived status than price, value, and quality - yes, you can have all at the same time. Those who bought a new generation Sonata have done their homework, made the A-B-C comparisons, and chose a Sonata. Yes, Honda and Toyota afficiandoes can play the depreciation card (factual arguement - at this time), but for those who keep a car for a decade or more, depreciation is a rather moot point. And, what a Sonata owner loses on the back end, he/she gains on the front end due to excellent factory/dealer incentives and Hyundai loyalty rebates.
Important thing is that buyers of both vehicles are happy with their purchases. Would I buy an Accord VP? Probably not, actually. If I was dead-set on an Accord, I'd either save a little more for an LX model, or look for an end-of-the-year bargain. I'm a frugal guy, and will likely drive my car into the ground, so long-LONG lasting cars are important. I currently have a 1996 daily driver Accord with 166,000 miles on it, as well as an 06 Accord. They get equal mileage monthly (approx 1k a month on each).
Actually, a dead battery does count!!! i had a dodge once that left me stranded due to a dead battery that was relatively new. why did it die? Well, apparently, the car had an electrical short that was draining the battery. Probably had something to do with all of the corroding parts that the Dodge dealer let corrode even though they worked on the car a hundred times and serviced it recently.
Not if you change the battery, and you're back to normal again.
You can knock this guy for owning pizza parlors. Seems like he is doing pretty well for himself. Fact is he chose Ford for his fleet of delivery vehicles. I am sure he did his homework over the 20+ years of owning his businesses. Sure goes against the grain of the stigma of all Fords being unrelaible hey? :shades:
Me, knock a pizza proprietor? I like pizza too much to do that.
I just don't agree with your conclusions. What some business uses for their vehicles is not an endorsement for that vehicle's reliability one way or the other. There are other factors that are involved with such business decisions.
I agree with venus here. There is a courier service that is in downtown Birmingham (I pass it daily, and have for awhile now). Many years ago, they bought a fleet (about 18-20 I think) of Civic Hatchbacks (they stopped making those in the late 90s I think)... They still have that fleet - all Purple (they're ugly, but cavernous and cheap on gas). They are now going on ten years old, and have countless miles, but they still use the same cars. Sure goes against the idea that Hondas are too expensive, right?
Point is, that one specific incident does not prove anything, just like I could find an instance where a new Ford or Honda had a terrible problem (it wouldn't be hard to do for any company). One terrible problem in one car does not a bad car company make; in the same respect, one company having a fleet of Fords and another having a fleet of Hondas proves NOTHING.
BTW, I think you meant a just a "300" Touring or Limited sedan. A 300C would've had the hemi, and the 300M would've been a few years old I believe:
Actually, per Dodge.com, Charger comes standard with the 3.5L 250 hp engine. Only the base model 300 and Magnum wagon come with the 2.7L 190 hp engine.