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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread
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Having a stick shift doesn't make a boring car exciting, but it does make it a lot less boring. Especially with such a sweet clutch/shifter combo like what Honda has.
I have owned 3 stick shift cars, and they were way too much work. If I needed the exercise, I guess I would ride a bike. Besides, how do you shift, sip coffee, and talk on the phone at the same time? That's too unsafe for my taste.
All kidding aside, I wouldn't mind owning a weekend car with stick shift again. But I (and I suspect most folks) soon tire of the monotony of shifting on their daily commute.
But I also consider resale in vehicles when I buy them and with less than 10% of the people wanting manuals, you are really limiting your audience when you want to sell your vehicle.
Want to have a stressful situation? How about this: teaching your teenage daughter how to drive a manual shift car, she is behind the weel in the left turn lane, the light turns green and she stalls 3 times (!!!), angry people beeping their horns behind her, she starts crying, her Dad says "stay calm, just make sure it's in gear and try again..." Haha- not THAT'S stress!
And besides, Americans like to talk on their cellphones (dangerous but they do it anyway) and eat/drink in their cars while driving (something the Europeans are appalled at)
I've already warned her - "You will cry, there's no doubt about it. You'll get frustrated, and want to quit, and say why do I have to learn to drive a stupid stick shift!". I'll probably just grin & bear it.
Be afraid...be very afraid :P
They just need to understand the friction zone and how it works. I also think its helpful to have a handbrake to make them feel more comfortable on hills. In a short time, they won't need it, but its kind of like having training wheels. just makes it a little easier to start out.
The hardest part is starting up from a stop in first gear. My technique with my 3 kids was to first do that on a slight downhill section of a road...makes it a little easier as the car will roll slowly forward due to the hill.
300+ horsepower
30 + mpg city/highway mixed.
Bulletproof reliability and durability.
Now that would be fantastic. Who will be the first to achieve this? Maybe Acura hybrid?
30 + mpg city/highway mixed.
Bulletproof reliability and durability.
Easy to achieve...
Porche-like handling.
Dream on...
You mean sharp and quirky at the limit? Tail happy? Challenging above 7/10ths?
As much as I like a sharp handling sedan, I think it would be better if it was more forgiving for most drivers. Even when I was doing time trials, I still did better with the car set slightly softer than the optimum because it made the car so much more forgiving of, eh running out of talent.
As they say, never run out of room, ideas or talent all at the same time...
Well said. Just because 5% of drivers want their $25K mid-size family sedan to ride stiff and harsh, and have oversteer at the limits is no reason for the other 95% to suffer with it.
Thats not to say that a stock suspension should suck. The car should still feel like it can go around a corner and the tires shouldn't start crying at the first clover-leaf ramp. The idea that a car can't handle very well and have decent ride quality was rendered false by a German auto maker. If someone decides they need a car that wallows because they want ride quality, they are selling themselves short.
Chevrolet Malibu
Pontiac G6
Chrysler Sebring/Dodge Avenger
Kia Optima
Mitsubishi Galant
Suzuki Verona
You can have any opinion you want about those vehicles, but I think they deserve to be included in the discussion list above, since they're similarly priced as the rest of them, and are considered "midsize sedans".
Agree again. I really don't like wallowing land yachts.
How far I push my car is limited by G forces. Anything above (I'm guessing) .5G gets very uncomfortable when the blood rushes to 1 side of my body. My car will easily get .8G, and I'm glad it will because of the safety margin. But,,, I won't be paying an extra $10-30K to get another .1G or so on the skid pad.
Does it still make do with a 155 hp Inline-6 as its only engine?
-Cj
If only it made it to the states...
-Cj
It looks OK in pictures, but that's all there is to it.
Thanks in advance for your opinions and experiences with both of these cars!
Christy
Regardless, its the best mixture of parts and chassis GM has done in a long while for an "all new" model!
-Cj
Car sales up 26% over last year, Overall sales up 5% over this time last year.. AND.. Fusion sold over 111,000 units, MKZ sold over 24,000 units, Milan sold over 28,000 units.. If this tide continues for North America this could be the turning point for Ford Motor Company. With the AWD and the new 3.5 coming online for the midsizers, sales are bound to keep on the uptick.. The car company with so much American history, so much American roots.. will survive.
Maybe people buy them because they are the best mid-sized cars available from a U.S.-based automaker, and good cars in their own right.
However, there is that big (street) price difference.
Maybe midwesterners buy them, but in California, Florida, Arizona, metro DC etc. you don't see many Fusions at all....except at the airport car rental lots.
I'd say 10 to 1 foreign vs domestic cars in these areas, and the truck sector that has been heavily domestic, is starting to ebb towards the Asians.
Car sales up 26% over last year, Overall sales up 5% over this time last year..
Oh, so this means they will only lay off 5,000 workers this year, instead of 10,000.
Americans like me! are buying Fords..
And you can bet they are counting on people like you to buy them. People like me will not buy a car just because it's "American". The only good parts of the Fusion come from Mazda anyway. :P
He said they aren't going away, not that they are going to grow or stay the same size. Ford execs themselves said they are cutting everything back to hit a 15% market share which to them is what it will take to be in their sweet spot this day and age. GM would be wise to do the same as there are too many makes out there now. Someone still has to be the biggest but it isn't going to be by the wide margin it once was.
I'm looking to purchase my first new car, I recently graduated from college and safety in a car is my top priority. Living in the northeast,my number one choice is the 2007 Subaru Legacy because it has all-wheel drive. It however doesn't have stability control.
Can someone please explain to me the pros/cons of not having stability control. I would assume that a car with all-wheel drive wouldn't need stability control.
Also, is the Audi A4 quattro, which has stability control a "safer" car in the snow than the suburu Legacy?
Thanks a bunch,
Uconn
You already have some idea, and some good input from the forum. So I'll give you my driving impressions.
I could not notice any advantages to the base model Azera over the loaded Sonata. Ride, comfort, noise, power, trunk, interior, were all too similar to pay $4K extra for the Azera. The only thing that made me smile was the extra back seat room in the Azera. But, since adults rarely ride back there, it was not a factor for me.
It's a personal thing, so drive both. Have the passenger stretch out, look around, and feel the space, feel the ride, and listen to the road noise. I just don't see a significant difference.
The loaded Azera does have a significantly nicer interior and a few features that you may find worth paying for. It just depends on how much the extras are worth to you.
I think you guys will be delighted with either car. Good luck with your decision.
This is all part of Ford adjusting to market share/demand. As much as I hate to see Americans loose thier jobs, its necessary for Ford to survive in North America. This will make Ford leaner, meaner and more profitable in the long run. This will also allow Ford to bring product to market faster and make necessary changes quicker to new vehicles that are introduced.
"And you can bet they are counting on people like you to buy them. People like me will not buy a car just because it's "American". The only good parts of the Fusion come from Mazda anyway.
I guess you are saying I didn't shop the market? and just walked into a Ford dealership only? I did shop, for 4 months I shopped and test drove. I drove the Accord/Camry/Sonata/Altima/Malibu/G6/Jetta/Passat/Legacy. I didn't feel it necessary to pay the extra $2-$4,000 dollars for an Accord/Camry for the perceived reliabiltiy advantage. And after owning 3 other Ford products over the last 15 years that gave me excellent reliability gave me even more reason not to pay the extra $$. And now with just over 6,000 miles on my Fusion with no issues.. I know I made the right choice. In fact.. the money I didn't spend on the Camry/Accord.. I'm going to Maui!! :shades:
Much of what Ford/GM have to overcome is the "image" card. The media has beat into the publics head so much over the last 10-15 years that Ford/GM cannot and will never build a great vehicle that there are people out there that won't even walk into a Ford/GM dealership to even look or test drive. For those who do look at data, and are willing to shop with open minds will find that Ford/GM do build great vehicles with great value.
The thing to remember is the stability control only has the same envelope of traction the driver does. If you are skidding on ice, its not going to be able to help very much either.
Depending on which models you are looking at, the Legacy is considerably bigger than the A4 and the non-turbo Legacy doesn't require premium fuel like the Audi does. Its also considerably less. You might also look at the VW Passat 4motion and the BMW 325xi if you like premium German vehicles.
loose = not tight
lose = to not win, or fail to keep or maintain
I don't need the media, or anybody, to tell me that I should have bought a Honda or a Toyota. Never another Ford.
I'll bet I'm not the only one with these experiences with Ford.
Your absolootely write.
Pretty safe bet. After pumping money into a Contour for a few years, and then selling it for a fraction of what I expected, I was glad to finally put the whole Ford debacle behind me.
God bless em, but I'll never buy another Ford either.