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What about the future of Ford Inc??



  • carlisimocarlisimo Posts: 1,280
    " think there is no reason NOT to buy Fusion, Fivehundred, Freestyle, etc... over Japanese and other competition. "

    Whenever I'm buying something and all the choices seem to be equally good, I go for the one with the best reputation. That's not good for for the 500, Freestyle, and Edge. The Fusion's a winner though, for those who don't find its styling awkward. On the other hand, the Fusion has less USA/Canada content than the Camry and Accord.

    The days of lousy Tauruses just ended. It'll take some time for everyone to forget them.
  • fred222fred222 Posts: 200
    The days of lousy Tauruses just ended. It'll take some time for everyone to forget them.

    Has anyone noticed how the Domestic automakers will run a car model/name for some number of years (usually not many) and then kill it while the Imports usually keep the same name in a new generation. Isn't name recognition one of the toughest things to build and worth a significant amount of money. Look at the history of the Camry, Corolla, Civic and Accord. I am sure that if the Taurus had been a good car, Ford would have loved to have re invented it, but it was synonymous with junk.
    Look at how much the F150 name is worth to Ford yet the Taurus name was worth nothing!
  • Re: your post, I never meant to intimate or imply that Toyota/Honda make prettier vehicles than the domestics.

    All I was sayin' was that Ford's best vehicle is F-150, and it is just about to go over the cliff, a high cliff, due to new competition arriving shortly, and no engines to stay ahead of the curve THEY have set. This truck is THE TRUCK, for the last 2 years, but, starting now, they will have to compete for sales, and the 4.6 and 5.4 Tritons they have now, will not keep them on top for long. GM has a 6.2L at over 400HP. I haven't heard a peep from Ford about staying competitive in engine strength, which is very important in this class. A key selling point.

    Ford makes the best truck. I like the F-150! But I can tell, Ford is getting lazy. And when the F-150 falls, it will hurt. A lot. Makes me winse. New engines should be out before the Tundra and next Silverado get here, to stay in the lead. But they aren't coming anytime soon, from what I know. The 3.5 has taken 2 years too long!

    Mustang is Ford's best car. Has a great heritage and all. The retro styling probably will not bring in conquest sales, but people brought up on the Mustang heritage. Older Ford buyers, and the sons of older Ford buyers.

    The outside is retro. The inside is just tired. If you don't know who Steve McQueen is, you will not like the interior.

    But I hate the new Eclipse too. So I'm hard to please in this class.

  • mschmalmschmal Posts: 1,757
    This is unacceptable. Ford only managed a net income of 2 billion dollars in 2005. Clearly this company is in the crapper.

    This forum died because most of the people who post have nothing worth while to say.

  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,726
    Eh? It lost money three out of the four quarters, and like GM only had a net profit in that one quarter because Ford Finance saved the day. The automotive arm of the business didn't make money all year.

    But you must be glad that YOU at least have something worthwhile to say! :-P

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • bottgersbottgers Posts: 2,030
    While the big 3 have narrowed the quality gap with the Asians, they haven't closed it. However, I do believe the gap is now narrow enough that styling could make the difference on which way to go so this isn't what's causing the problems with the big 3.

    What is causing the problems is wages and benefits. You simply can't pay unskilled employees $25-$30 an hour AND provide full benefits and expect to survive in today's business world. That's the bottom line and until this issue is addressed, the big 3 will continue to lose money.
  • We'll have to seriously consider the source on such inflammatory comments.

    Also please check your thesaurus, as "worthwhile" and "rose-colored glasses" seem to have become synonymous.

    Since someone worthwhile brought it up, the forum dying, and Ford rocketing down the charts and into "The Junk" have nothing in common.

    They're a victim of circumstance! They get no respect, I tell ya'........

    For more Ford bashing, and other non-worthy commentary, check out my latest Forum, "Rank the Big 4" in News & Views! LOL!! ;)

  • bobw3bobw3 Posts: 2,992
    " think there is no reason NOT to buy Fusion, Fivehundred, Freestyle, etc... over Japanese and other competition. " Whenever I'm buying something and all the choices seem to be equally good, I go for the one with the best reputation.

    Same here...which is why I bought the Freestyle. I didn't see a Japanese equally good (equal space, handling, price, features, etc)
  • douglasrdouglasr Posts: 191

    William Clay Ford Jr. announced the "idling of Wixom through 2008" at 9:36 a.m. CST in Detroit. While the Detroit Free Press has stated that the denouement for Lincoln will come in the second quarter of 2007 (Amy Wilson & Dale Jewett staff-reporters), and Wixom has been idle since December 24...the mere fact that Ford would even consider closing its best assembly plant in North America speak volumes for how out of touch the leadership of Ford is with respect to the American public and Lincoln and Continental.

    Bill Ford says "Americans want to drive America's finest car", and that "Lincoln customers don't need to shout about success...They are self-made people with enough confidence to be elegant and understated" These are his words today.

    Yet, as an owner of Lincolns for 30 years, I can't but think that Mr. Ford has passed up the best possible chance top revive the marque within his tennure. It is astounding to me given the success of Chrysler 300, that it never occurred to him he missed a great chance when Wolfgang Reitzle proposed the reanascence of the Lincoln and Continental brand for a mere $2.1 Billion. Where was the Mark IX? I would have bought one of those. Where was the Continental V12 sedan? I would have bought one of those---two cars Mr. Ford's Ford Motor displayed to the public, but NEVER built. Mr. Horbury, and Mr. McGovern worked hard to bring brilliant ideas to Lincoln...some of them ended up in the Rolls-Royce Phantom and 100EX show-car. But, WCF JR. did not approve of the Reitzle plan...Mr. Reitzle rightly resigned, and Ford spent the money on Jaguar.

    When T-Bird was built, from which today's Mustang is based, the Mark IX project car was proposed. It was never built, reason: Two door sales were in the basement. Why: few good two door cars were on the market. A Continental Mark IX, on that platform would have been a hit. Mr. Ford did not give us the chance to buy it. Chrylser 300's success is due largely in part because those gentlemen responded to a part of the market American companies had ignored.

    Lincoln only recently passed Cadillac as the number one American luxury brand in America. Since then, Ford has done NOTHING to offer better cars to the buyers. Spruced up the Town Car, but no new platform; offered the LS, but did not develop that into a second generation---Ford scrapped that in favor of Zephyr, which is doing well. But Lincoln left the buyers no place to go but out. Cheap Jaguars based on Mondeos were not the answer. Granted the XJ, and new XK are wonderful...but they are not Lincolns. Ford spent $6.1 Billion on Jaguar, recently injecting the very same amount of capital it would have required to bring back a great Lincoln...

    People still respond to the notion of the "Hot-Rod Lincoln"; and they still respond to the classic era of Lincoln design from the 1950's & 1960's---a market apart from the buyuers of the 1980's & 1990's---a market that today's money commands given the prices for vintage cars of that era. Ford Motor, and William C. Ford has walked away from the die-hard Lincoln customer. That he wants to close the home of Lincoln since 1958, and shift production of his grandfather's and Henry Leland's premiere American luxury car outside the U.S., and relegate it to being a tarted up truck, is an anathma to a great many people. If that customer wanted a Euro type car, he or she would buy one, and not everyone wants an SUV or CUV---but Lincoln has been ignored in favor of PAG.

    Since 1998, it's as though the Reith Plan for 1952 had been re-ignited, with Lincoln competing against lessor marques. This time, Bill Ford forgot what his father tried to achieve with the Continental Mark II---make Ford Motor a Company that was not afraid to go head-to head with the competition---even Rolls-Royce.

    Bill Ford today says: "It's time to go on the offensive" But in closing Wixom and curtailing the future of Lincoln as a 32% solution tarted up from other platforms---that may well be fine for the bottom end of the market, but where is his loyalty to the top of it? I think Edsel Ford might understand, but he would be horrified. Lincoln could easily have capture half of Chrysler's 300 sales---if they had only tried. Lincoln could have introduced a V10 or V12 powered luxury sedan. Or brought back the classic Continental in a modern idiom> The possibilities were all present, the materials and engineers accounted for. Close Wixom? Making Lincoln into the modern day Packard? Astounding!

    Mr. Ford...please remember the words of your grandfather, February 4, 1922 when he became President of Lincoln Motor: "Now I want to make the best car in the world" It's not too late Mr. Ford.

  • irnmdnirnmdn Posts: 245
    My friend rents every week becuase he is a consultant.
    He has had Sonata and Ford 500 several times. According to him, 500 is no way in the same league as the Korean car. Shows that Fords problems run beyond UAW and management. They simply do not have the engineering talent to deliver a class leading engine or platform. Some of the best Fords recently has been rebadged Mazdas.
  • Ford has to do something to get rid of the UAW.

    Yes, its call bankruptcy...with the warp core about to blow, this is the escape pod (or auto-destruct) for Bill and corp. Same goes for GM, bankruptcy will be the opportunity to deal with current UAW contracts.
  • viet3viet3 Posts: 8
    I do not see any hope from Bill Ford speak. Let see, 6B cut in material costs. Please, it is not like Ford cars and truck now is over built with costly materials, nor these cars and truck is overly engineered. Ford since the 60 with a few exceptions has always been built with cheap materials, with below or average industry engineering. What Ford survived on were SUV and trucks cash cows. And amid the crisis, Ford are trying to build a recycleable cars while Lincohn is just came out with a V6 front drive to compete with the 300C. All these empty talks (a typical American executive talks, long on words but short in subtance) are not going to save Ford. As a Ford cars owner and enthusias, I feel sad because to me Ford is gone.
  • seminole_kevseminole_kev Posts: 1,722
    "while Lincohn is just came out with a V6 front drive to compete with the 300C"

    Or to compete with the Lexus ES330?
  • This is really very Very simple..... Build a better car.

    Better reliability, better performance, better style, better functionality.

    Price is not a major concern if you address those 4.

    At this point, the Domestics have been unable or unwilling to do that..... plain and simple.

  • bobw3bobw3 Posts: 2,992
    I think the more complicated psychological issue is changing the minds of Americans who will always think that a Japanese car is of a higher quality, no matter what the reality is. Foreign companies have newer plants and cheaper labor costs, so they can build a higher quality car for the same dollar as compared to Ford. I think it's going to be a long struggle for Ford. First to reduce costs overall, then slowly use those cost savings to improve vehicle quality, so maybe in 10 to 15 years, Ford quality will be at and perceived to be equal to the Japanese. It took the Japanese from the 1970s to the 1990s to become the leaders. Plus, not to be too cold, many of the Ford retirees will be passing away over the next 10 to 20 years, and this will really reduce the health/pension costs to Ford that Honda or Toyota never has to worry about. Think long, long term.
  • igor2igor2 Posts: 148
    completely agreed...

    What especially irks me is the fact that Corolla and Camry (especially) have nothing to offer except their past history.
    People buy them because they are on par with other cars and previos generations had no problems... that is serious market deformation, especially in light of the fact the their sub par Camry is STILL best selling sedan. The same goes for Corolla. Everywhere else the non-USA Corolla which is whe same platform, drivetrain and interion as NA Corlla is considered dead in the water compared to cas like Mazda3, but here the auto media is lenintly letting is off the hook by not including it in any comparisons that would highlight how mediocre if not sub par that car is .

  • If fuel prices stay hovering in the 2.50gal range, Ford nor Chevy have the luxury of a long, long term solution. They will be so weakened by the blood loss, they will be halved again in their market share. Both are banking on the truck segment to offset other losses and this is a risky gamble the way the market is changing.

    If the domestics are forced to survive on cars they're in big big trouble if they don't start turning out something people want to buy. That means handing a pink slip to the the first guy that recommends putting drum brakes on a vehicle from here on out.....

  • seminole_kevseminole_kev Posts: 1,722
    My 2005 Toyota Tacoma (the new style that first came out that year) has drum brakes on the rear....
  • mschmalmschmal Posts: 1,757
    This forum is so full of garbage and misstatements.

    Once again, for 2005, Ford put over 900,000 F-series trucks into the hands of customers.

    For 2005, Ford increased its cash reserves to over $25 Billion! (companies with enough cash on hand to pay off their debt do not commit bankruptcy).

    Wixom should be closed. This plant was built in farm country outside of Detroit during the 1950s. This plant is now surrounded by high priced suburbs. Closing the plant is actually a service to the people who live around it.

    Trucks fill a specific need for a great many people. For others, trucks represent a capability and an image that is essential to who they are, even if they never take advantage of that capability.

    90 percent of Super Duty purchasers tow with their truck and 2-thirds take the diesel engine option.

    No other company understands trucks the way Ford does. The japanese "full size" trucks are to the F-150 what the Taurus was to the Camry and Accord. Visit to see why.

    The Japanese actually use PLASTIC bumper covers on their trucks!

    The max payload of the Nissan Titan is within 50 pounds of the max payload of the Ford Ranger!

    People here talk relentlessly about the dominance of the Camry/Accord.

    What about how the F-150 has dominated all comers for the last 28 years?

    The Ford Explorer is the best selling mid-size SUV since its debut in 1994!

    The Ford Escape is the best selling compact SUV since its debut!

    What Ford is now trying to do is to PICK its market. Its obvious that Ford is going to choose to build less cars in the future and may have a lower market share. This is insignificant if those fewer cars can be sold at a profit.

    Is Mercedes a failure because the total of all the vehicles they sell in the US is less that the number of Mustangs Ford sells per year?

  • martianmartian Posts: 220
    spend more time with its customers, and learn why people buy cars today. for the vast majority, cars are an appliance. people want appliances that don't break and don't cost a fortune to fix. having said that, the Japanese learned that ten years ago. So what should Ford do? Copy the japanese, and sell a Ford camry at an attractive price. It will take them 5-10 years, but the camry-buyers can be won back. I also think the US governemnet will lend a hand, when they see the effect of 300,000 unemployed auto workers on the national economy. Should the US government decide that the domestic auto industry is not worth saving, then get ready for WALMART to market chinese-made cars in its stores-$4000 cars witha 3-year service life.
  • lweisslweiss Posts: 342
    Actually I think that Ford does put out decent products these days (and my 2000 Ford Windstar SE is a great vehicle in a crowded market). But I am in the market for a mid-size to replace my 1998 Volvo S-70 (non-turbo), and yes the Fusion will be considered, but also the Honda Accord, new Toyota Camry, Mazda 6, and Hyundai Sonata- a tough group of competitors, but that is where Ford has to play.

    And I still maintain that GM and Ford's biggest problem is that their product planners misjudged the market- and with these gasoline prices now (and possibly going higher), the market for "just for the heck of it" truck and SUV buyers will shrink, and the Ford F-150 will go back to where it should have been all along- a great commercial vehicle or truck for people that need trucks.

    Question is can Ford and GM survive that long to make the transition. Actually, I think that they can.
  • >>The max payload of the Nissan Titan is within 50 pounds of the max payload of the Ford Ranger!<<

    Nissan lists max tow capacity of 9,500 lbs for the Titan
  • seminole_kevseminole_kev Posts: 1,722
    I don't know the actual numbers of either but there is a difference between max tow capacity and max payload. Two different measurements.
  • varmintvarmint Posts: 6,326
    What's that old adage?

    We lose money on every unit we sell... but we make up for it in volume.
  • I am so HAPPY at the collapse of Guzzler Motors and Ford. I couldnt have asked for more! This is a great day. And now after 5 years of railing against these pigs I can gleefully say. "I TOLD YOU SO!!!" HAHAHAHAHA. Good bye and Good riddance guzzler peddlers. You deserve what you got! After 10 years of relentless advertising and forcing these guzzler pigs on every other man woman and child in the USA you finally got what you deserve. Yet I doubt if you will learn from this because you didnt learn in the 70's either. Deja vu all over! What idiots.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Posts: 21,504
    >forcing these guzzler pigs on every other man

    I have never seen any car manufacturer force someone to buy a car by chaining them to a desk and forcing a signature. LOL

    Counseling for anger management might help. Grin.

    2015 Cruze 2LT, 2014 Malibu 2LT, 2008 Cobalt 2LT

  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    This is not accurate. In all the comparos the Camry and the Corolla always rank near the bottom.

    This is the key point. People dont buy according to media perceptions they buy from their own experience first, then immediate family experiences, then word-of-mouth.

    In all three criteria both the Camry and Corolla are at the top of the list!! That's why they continue to grow.

    When a father who drives his 4th Carmy buys a vehicle for his college graduate it's often a Corolla or Scion now. The cycle has started all over again.

    In addition the Detroit auto makers miss a very key point. For most drivers the vehicle is a tool, nothing more. It gets them to work and back, nothing exciting, nothing dramatic just make sure I dont have to sink any money into this tool. A carpenter wants a hammer that will build several houses.

    I had the opportunity to look at a Lexus 330 and a base Camry next to each other. $33K vs $19K. They were the same exact vehicle made on the same line in Japan with the same exact body panels, seams, gaps, etc.

    The buyer of this base 4c Camry at $19K was getting a Lexus to drive for the next ??? yrs. That's the difference in what an owner sees and 'feels' when driving one of these boring tools.
  • chuck1959chuck1959 Posts: 654
    Perhaps a switch to DECAF is in order?
  • rrobrrob Posts: 51
    PF - Retro maybe a good idea. I think they've tried this pretty much with the current Mustang. Ford clearly did this with the 'new' T bird, but it had the same fate as the original. Even though purists groaned, the 4-seater bird was a much better seller when it came out in 1958. I think a 4-seater retro Bird would have sold much better. I owned a number of Fords including a '63 hardtop T bird, '86 turbo T bird, and a 1992 Explorer, all were segment leading, interesting vehicles. However, Ford really lost its way in its cars from about 74-84, and I think again in the late 1990's to the present. Haven't bought a Ford product since 1998. Maybe sometime in the future. But, sitting in my current ride, an Infiniti M45, my word to Ford is - the bar is high . . .
  • viet3viet3 Posts: 8
    What you have said sound rosy, so why are Ford in such trouble ? Trucks will helps Ford for a while longer, but gas will not be getting cheaper and American will change their habit to buy smaller vehicles which required more engineerings and not as profitable as truck. History have shown that Ford car is average at best in quality, workman ship and engineering.
This discussion has been closed.