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Car Commercials, the good, the bad, and the annoying!

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  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I don't doubt it, come to think of it the STS didn't go back to RWD until a generation ago.

    I just seems like the type of car that should be RWD.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,429
    I suspect the lack of RWD smaller cars didn't help Caddy's fortunes in the past 30 years or so.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Although I'd have preferred RWD, the FWD cars aren't as bad as everybody makes them out to be. Torque steer is virtually non-existant and I often forget they are FWD when driving them. They are excellent in the snow. My next Caddy will probably be RWD/AWD. Heck, by then it might be a hybrid or electric because I see the 2007 DTS lasting a long, long time. Heck, it my turn out to be my next Brougham.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,429
    I think when people think FWD Caddy they think 1985 DeVille or 1986 Eldo etc...the image was really damaged.

    Caddy would be well advised to offer AWD in everything if not making it standard.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Cadillac only has one FWD model left and it's the DTS. I'm pretty sure FWD will be gone when it's replaced by the XTS sometime in the near future.

    Oh, believe me, I was horrified at the shrunken 1985 FWD DeVilles and Fleetwoods and the even worse FWD 1986 Eldos and Sevilles. I was a junior in college when they debuted and was afraid there would be nothing to look forward to buying after I graduated. Fortunately, they kept the RWD Brougham around a bit longer.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,429
    We are lucky that cars didn't evolve into the dystopian brave new world that many assumed would be the future 30 years ago. Score one for technology.

    Those Eldos and Sevilles seemed especially crappy...they are a rare sight anymore too, which says a lot.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The take rate on AWD options for luxury cars is surprisingly high, and trending upward. Just read an article about that, and they mentioned the CTS as an example.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,429
    If I was buying a new E or 5er, I would be tempted...it doesn't cost a huge premium anymore either.
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    Caddy would be well advised to offer AWD in everything if not making it standard.

    Nah. When you consider all the seniors and golden seniors driving Caddies in FL, AZ, CA, what possible use would be AWD? These folks, who only drive maybe a few times a week only need RWD. I see some of these seniors in my area with padded top Caddies. Must be a lucrative aftermarket for somebody putting on these tops. Never did understand the WHY of padded tops.
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    If Jay Leno did an extended interview on the streets in LA about FWD, RWD, AWD of people of all ages, they would not even know what he was talking about. Most people don't know jack about it and only look at other attributes when picking a car.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,429
    If anything, it's a status symbol, could even be in warm areas. Warm area people flock to obese SUVs.

    I don't like in a snowy area either, but lots of AWD highline cars here.

    Padded tops - chic among the toupee set in the 70s, some people never move on from what they see as a golden age. You see it in the way some people maintain their facial hair, hairstyles, and clothing, too.
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    Our president should come out against awd vehicles in areas such as FL, AZ south, CA, and similar climate areas, etc. These cars waste fuel by carrying extra weight, friction of moving parts and thus poorer gas mileage. Unless you are driving a lot on snow, ice for a good part of year or drive on dirt or gravel roads, awd is stupid.
  • fushigifushigi Member Posts: 1,459
    The "waste fuel" argument doesn't hold as much water as it used to. Modern AWD/4WD systems stay FWD-biased and shift power to the rear wheels when needed (or told to); as such they impose minimal penalties. Examples: Honda CR-V 4 cyl 2WD: 21/28/24 city/highway/combined; AWD: 21/27/23. So just 1 MPG loss in non-city driving. Mitsubishi Outlander V6 2WD: 19/25; AWD: 18/24. Again, just a 1 MPG loss. Explorer V6 FWD: 17/25/20; 4WD: 17/23/19 so a loss of 2 highway but just 1 overall.

    So, worst case is still under a 10% fuel economy penalty but 2 of 3 are under 5%. You driving style will have a greater impact on fuel economy than AWD's overhead.
    2017 Infiniti QX60 (me), 2012 Hyundai Elantra (wife)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    on the streets in LA

    Also keep in mind that location - very, very mild climate.

    Ask someone in Vermont and he might not know what FWD is at all, because they often would not even consider a vehicle without 4/AWD.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    http://www.autoblog.com/2011/05/16/just-how-tight-are-supplies-of-new-audi-model- s/

    Funny, but not accurate. Lexus supplies are worse than Audi, short supply that is.

    Maybe they didn't get the memo about the tsunami...
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,429
    What Lexus other than the CT has any real shortages right now? A deadly dull aging lineup doesn't have people queuing up for it.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited May 2011
    Toyota has a 44-day supply overall, Honda just 37 days, as of May 16 per Automotive News.

    Ideal is 60 days, so both are short.

    I'm searching for Lexus-specific numbers....
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Audi is indeed in short supply - just 29 days as of April 1.

    Lexus had 37 days supply, though. And that was April 1, it's probably gone waaaaaaaaaay down.

    Lexus absolutely humiliates Audi in sales per dealer, 89 vs. just 36 in March 2011.

    http://castage.cr.atl.publicus.com/assets/PDF/CA7348747.PDF

    Now I really need to search, I bet Audi's supplies are more plentiful right now...

    Told you so...
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Bingo, found it:

    http://www.autonews.com/assets/PDF/CA73943512.PDF

    Audi had 31 days' supply as of May 1, 2011.

    Lexus? 32 days. A virtual tie. Whoop-de-doo.

    So the Audi ad is pure nonsense.

    And each Lexus franchise sold 76 cars despite the shortage, vs. just 36 for Audi.

    Another important factor to remember - Lexus dropped incentives for that month, and they may bring them back.

    So basically dealers are selling every Lexus they can get their hands on right now, even without discounts.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,429
    Lexus has pretty much always outsold Audi in this market (and pretty much none other outside of this continent) since the dawn of time, hasn't it? I don't see how this is news or controversy.

    I haven't heard of anyone actually lining up for any Lexus save for the CT, and the market for that isn't huge or mainstream. Shortage of what model? Seems to be plenty hanging around the dealer near me.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Those are nationwide numbers. Of course we'll see regional variances.

    Overall Lexus dealers have about half as many cars as they'd probably like to have. That hurts sales because then you may not see the color or options you want in stock.

    So in that manner yes, overall supply is short.
  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 18,339
    Has anyone seen those idiotic Ford "owner press conference" ads?
    It's as if they are a response to those Toyota ads that featured goofy Camry owners.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
    Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
    Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    They're odd, as are the swap-my-ride themed ones.

    Problem is any comparison like that simply acknowledges the other car is the benchmark.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,429
    edited May 2011
    Sounds like a semantics game to explain away sagging Lexus sales/market share and lack of excitement around the brand, to me :P

    Supplies might be lower in raw days, but there are no actual supply problems - I haven't heard of any Lexus shoppers going to the competition because of a lack of cars, or queuing up.
  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 18,339
    Problem is any comparison like that simply acknowledges the other car is the benchmark.

    Good point.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
    Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
    Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,727
    edited May 2011
    AWD helps in wet conditions, so maybe in Arizona it's hard to sell.
    My AWD Fusion is pretty good in snow, but I usually leave it home and drive the Explorer because it is better in the same poor driving conditions.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,727
    I kind of agree, although when the person being interviewed said they went from filling up once a week to once every 3 weeks, that caught my attention.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Sagging sales? They were #1 in 2010 even with all the SUA baloney, even when you count Sprinter sales in with M-B.

    Recent sales drops have been due to the tsunami, lack of supply, and elimination of incentives due to the lack of supply.

    Face it, you don't like the facts you saw in that chart, so now you are spinning them. ;)

    And yes, I'm sure M-B sold more than Lexus worldwide when you count all the taxis in the middle east. :P
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,429
    edited May 2011
    A sales drop due to "lack of supply" implies there are cars that people can't buy, but want to. What are these cars, and what are customers buying to make up for it? Other than the CT, I can't imagine any Lexus model having any kind of wait at all. Aging, boring, invisible lineup, while the competition becomes more dynamic and has sales and market share gains to back it up.

    When Lexus Camrys are counted, I have no problem counting Sprinters...

    NA is the only market where Lexus is even a real player.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited May 2011
    The CT is the only new model. In a way the timing could have been much worse, if the tsunami had come during the upcoming GS/IS launches. Those would do more volume and have a bigger effect.

    Lexus dropped incentives sharply, but the numbers don't lie, a 32 days' supply is not exactly stagnant. Look at M-B....

    Audi has no share at all before, so there was nowhere to go but up.

    Edit: to add, more importantly, that the Audi ad actually shows a guy climbing out of a BMW X3. Well, the new X3 is here, and more in demand than any Audi model.

    The irony....
  • tmarttmart Member Posts: 2,399
    Since "NA is the only market where Lexus is even a real player", and I live in NA, I don't really care about the "other markets" around the world. We know you don't like Lexus, but why continue to bash them? There ARE folks who prefer a luxury cruiser over a sports/sporty one. My wife's ES300 still has more than enough power to get me in trouble as does my C70. They both provide the function for which they were bought. In my opinion, and my opinion only, I wouldn't have a MB if one were given to me. It would go straight to Carmax for their offer. But that's just me. I'm aware many folks like MB, but that's their choice, not mine. And I wouldn't bash their choice.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,429
    But there's no "shortage", that's all I am saying. Save for the CT, if I want virtually any new Lexus, I can go take my pick right now, no line, no gouging, they'll be happy to take my money and get one off the lot.

    Audi is growing faster than anyone else in the segment no doubt, but as you say, when you start from the bottom, it's not so hard.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,429
    Hey, if you don't like my views, you can ignore me. ateixeira plays devils advocate for the swoopy L and I kick back, that's all ;)

    My 135hp nearly 50 year old fintail has enough power to get me in trouble too, power isn't the issue. I don't recall bashing anyone's personal choice.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Swoopy L? I always thought it was a "less than" sign as Lexus < Mercedes. :P
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,429
    You could start a war with that one!

    Find idea for a commercial too :shades:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited May 2011
    I can go take my pick right now, no line

    Actually my guess is you might have to be flexible about color and options.

    I'm not even interested in any particular model (*) but I never quite got why so many people simply *hate* Toyota/Lexus.

    * except LF-A and IS-F
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,429
    I haven't read a single report of a shortage of anything in any way, and none of it seems to be traceable to the quake. There are no queues or lineups for these cars no matter their options.

    You'll be going down to buy a new LF-A or IS-F about as soon as I place an order for a new CL65 :P

    I don't "hate" per se, but I don't understand the adulation either.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited May 2011
    Well, I doubt you're friends with thousands of Lexus shoppers, so how would you know? :D

    Given your biases I doubt you feel welcome in Lexus threads, either, unless you're just lurking. And if so, you have way too much time on your hands...

    No offense, but you remind me of haters of Consumers Reports who never read the magazine. They're hardly qualified to make the judgements they make.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,429
    Well, if there were valid shortages, I think Toyota would be making a big deal of it in the media. Haven't ever ventured into a Lexus forum no, but I will admit I am pleasantly surprised to know they exist - at least some of them care about their cars beyond being a leather lined isotank coffin :shades:

    I've read CR plenty of times, wouldn't buy a car based on it alone, but some of it can be useful.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    32-days supply is a nationwide average. I'm sure some dealers are short, though they may trade with other dealers close by.

    You don't run out of, say, all RX models, but a customer may not find the color and options they want, and may wait to buy later or just buy something else.

    Lots of folks dismiss CR entirely and have clearly never read it at all.

    Having said that, when was the last time you actually drove a Lexus? ;)
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,429
    I haven't read of a shortage of anything, though. Maybe I should go down to the dealer just down the road from me, and ask them what I can't get. Other than a LF-A, they'll probably say "nothing".

    CR does have some problems, that can't be denied.

    Why would I want to drive a Lexus? I've ridden in several, if I feel like taking a nap when I am a passenger, I won't be yearning to drive :shades:
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited May 2011
    Supply and demand. Less supply and same demand means higher prices.

    "With Toyota Motor Corp.'s U.S. factories operating at just 30% capacity this month because of Japan-related parts shortages and Honda Motor Co. warning that its supply of vehicles is diminished, some of the bestselling cars, including Toyota's Camry and Corolla and Honda's Civic and CR-V SUV, will become scarce."

    Shortages caused by Japan's quake have boosted prices for new and used vehicles (ctnow.com)

    "Toyota Canada Inc. posted a 9-per-cent sales jump, led in part by the best month on record for its Lexus luxury brand.

    But dealers said they are beginning to experience shortages of some vehicles and have been told by Toyota that sales are expected to fall dramatically in Canada during the next few months.

    One Toyota dealer said he thought early in April that he would run out of vehicles by the end of July, but now believes he will scrape through until full production resumes at Toyota plants later this year."

    Demand for small cars rising (Globe and Mail)

    I suspect the dealer will "scrape through" by raising prices. :P
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,429
    edited May 2011
    Or is rising hype part of that? I am sure Toyota and Honda are loving this when both were having issues shortly before. Supply and demand was never part of this. There just aren't any true shortages of Lexus products out there.

    I can't see it that way when there is less supply - but still a month's worth of surplus. That's not a shortage. Any supply issues are not very significant.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited May 2011
    Yeah, I'm sure they (and their suppliers) are just loving not being able to get stuff in the pipeline. These are commodity products, not something to try to sell in limited editions to create some kind of cachet.

    Meanwhile they still have rent and employees to pay.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,429
    A little short term gain - most corporations can't see past that. Will profits rise or fall during this? It's not a permanent situation.

    They've made so much in the past generation that a few months of weird times won't break anyone's bank.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Hate to break the news to you but a 70% fall off in capacity is significant.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,429
    I'll believe it when I see it on the lots. Hate to break it to you ;)
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    We should have sales numbers out in what, 2 weeks maybe?
  • fushigifushigi Member Posts: 1,459
    To be fair, that they're running @ 30% of capacity doesn't mean they were running @ 100% pre-quake/tsunami/nukem-leakem. Plus that's just the US factories. Toyota and their suppliers could be starving our market in order to keep the JDM plants running at closer to normal/full capacity.
    2017 Infiniti QX60 (me), 2012 Hyundai Elantra (wife)
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    So what number do you guys want to see? Supply, sales, days to turn? Sounds like Toyota is thin and Honda is even worse off. (Detroit News)

    I got it - y'all count the number of commercials broadcast. I'd do it but there's no TV here. :shades:
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