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2013 and earlier BMW X5 Lease Questions
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Comments
This is more than a bit embarrassing...
I have been shopping to buy a 2012 X5 xDrive35d, and then I was presented a lease deal that seemed great. I signed on the dotted line only to find out I did not get a very good deal. Shame on me for not doing the investigation first. I ordered the car about a week ago with delivery expected at the end of November. The unit is now sitting in the VPC in Port Elizabeth and will likely be delayed a bit (a few days or more) due to the current X5 35d Stop Sales memo by BMW because of a bolt issue.
Here is the deal I agreed to:
MRSP: 67,800
Incentives:
$4500 eco
$1500 holiday
$750 loyalty
The sales guy says he took another 2k off. Thats puts the deal at $59,050
The quoted MF=.00145
Residual was said to be 53%
These seem to be inline with your posts on this matter, though others have said I can get MF=.00125 and residual of 56%
The deal I accepted called for $2500 at signing and $840/month for 36 months.. 12k miles/year. This includes 6% tax.
Using BMWconfig the invoice is $63,365... add $1000 for the dealer/sales guy mark-up and minus incentives = $57615
The BMWconfig tool says the deal (including tax) should be about $2500 at signing and $780/month.
grrrrrrrr!
This is a lesson learned. But I am hoping its not to late. Here are my questions:
1) Am I doing the math correctly? Is the deal I accepted $840 based on the terms I described?
2) Is the $780/month the correct number based on $1k over invoice?
3) Are the MF and residual correct? If not, what are they?
4) What is a fair deal for this X5?
4) Can I renegotiate? I have not taken possession yet. Can I say I feel like I have been taken advantage of and that I want out of this deal unless they come down to $780/month? (if this is the correct number.)
I really like the car, and I *don't* want to walk from the deal, but I feel like I've been had. Again, lesson learned. And again, I hope its not too late to rectify this issue.
Thanks very much for your timely reply Car_Man (and/or others!)
(1) You "ordered" the car a week ago and it's already sitting in a port? When I ordered our X5d on July 13, it took several days just to get back a production number and slot, another 3-4+/- weeks for the car to queued into production and built. It was ready for pick up in late August, and that was a week ahead of the 6 week estimate I was given when we placed the order. There is no way that you could have custom ordered a car from scratch a week ago and have it sitting at a port today. So what exactly do you mean by "order" - a dealer trade or taking an existing/dealer order vehicle that was already in process? Because if that's the case, you may have a little more leverage than if you actually had the car built to your own personal specifications.
(2) It looks like the price you negotiated is $1,440 over your (new) $1,000 over invoice target. Not sure how that translates into a full $1,440 more in lease payments over 24 months (i.e. $60/moth), but maybe that's lease math (and why I always buy). On the positive side, does that make the eco credit worth nearly $200 per month??
I'm not a lawyer or financial advisor, but I think you hit the nail on the head with the "shame on me for not doing the investigation first". If this is a car that the dealer had coming anyway, I would try hard to renegotiate the deal. But if this was a vehicle that they customized for you - and got a deposit with the order - I wouldn't blame the dealer for holding you to the deal or keeping the deposit. I'm in the middle of an extreme example - negotiating on a brand new 2011 Porsche 911 GTS that was custom ordered 18 months ago and the buyer defaulted. Dealer kept a $5k deposit (way too low), but they have been unable to sell the car since. It's now gone from bad to worse. We are now haggling between the $33k discount they offered and my proposal at $40k off. Either way, the dealer is taking a huge bath. Maybe in your case you could agree to split the difference and chalk it up to lessons learned.
It was indeed an existing/dealer order vehicle that was already built and on its way to the dealer. Now, if I can just get delivery! Stuck in VPC getting a new bolt!
BTW, I was able to get them down to $780! Thanks again for your feedback.
I just leased my first BMW - an X5d. I was happy with the price given the eco credit. I ordered it in October and just picked it up yesterday. When I originally negotiated the deal, the residual factor on the three year lease was .57. When I picked it up yesterday, they told me that the residual value had decreased to .53. They said there was nothing they could do about it, that it was set by BMW. They said that they are now producing the 2013s and when I ordered mine in October is was a 2012 and that is the reason for the change. Does this sound reasonable or did they pull yet another fast one?
One thing to confirm is that the residual was 57%. It seems high for a 12k/yr lease.
I hope this helps.
*** If you have already leased the car, then there is not a whole lot you can do now ***
I tried to lease an X5d this week and the deal was so bad I had to walk out. $1500 margin for the dealer after the Eco-credit and holiday incentives were applied to the invoice. NJ is a very difficult place to obtain a reasonable lease on a BMW.
Here are the basic details:
MSRP: $65,295
Invoice: $60,270
Initial Cap Cost: $57,000 (post Eco-Credit)
Residual: 53%
Residual Value: $34,606.35
LMF: 0.00125
* Trade-In: $4,150
Happier New Year Rebate: $1,500
Drive-Off: $5,650
** Bank Fee: $925.00
** Bank Fee / Doc DO: $116.00
DMV Fees: $471.00
$699.93/mo Payment (Incl Taxes)
Notes:
* I'm taking it on the chin here, I know. I just can't spend the time to sell my car privately, given my work travel schedule. Plus, it needs some work (a good $1,000 to make it presentable). I'd rather trade it in and be done with it. I'm probably down $1,850 on this aspect of the deal.
** Are these negotiable? The dealership did not do a good job selling me on why these fees exist other than blaming BMWFS ("They need to make money, too").
How would you grade this deal (A-F)? My gut instinct says the negotiated cap cost is strong but the extra fees and low-ball trade-in are weak. Overall though, is this deal a winner?
I currently own a 2011 x5 diesel (white exterior, oyster interior, premium package + running boards).
I am interested in purchasing a new x5 diesel due to the savings being offered. $4,500 eco credit, $1,500 holiday credit, and $750 loyalty credit. I drive roughly 15-17k miles a year, so a lease is probably not my best option. The x5 I just built online came out to be $64,645 with the Sport Activity Package, Premium Package, and running boards. Subtract the discounts ($6,750) and I have $57,895 which should include destination and handeling.
Do I have any wiggle room? I'm not sure what the market up is online? Fortunately/unfortunately my 2011 was a company car and this time it is on me, so the first go round I didn't pay as much attention to the details because it was being covered. Any other cost I should be aware of?
Lastly, my 2011 has 29,000 miles. I'm hoping to sell privately for $44-45k. BMW in my hometown says $40-41k is the best they could do. Any thoughts?
(1) Your $64,645 MSRP must include a few other options? We bought a 2012 X5d with Premium, Sport Activity Package (19" wheels), running boards and BMW Apps. It had an MSRP of $63,875, as I recall.
(2) You definitely have a lot more wiggle room in the price. The discounts you quoted should be subtracted AFTER the dealer discounts the MSRP down to $1,000 or less above invoice. Check Edmunds for those figures, but I would expect the dealer discount to be at least $3,000-$3,500 off MSRP. Meaning that your total discount off MSRP would be $9,750 to $10,250.
(3) There are a couple of costs that Edmunds does not include in their invoice price - MACO and processing fees. For my dealer, those were about $400 total. That still means that you should not pay any more than $1,000 over invoice to the dealer, and then get the benefit of the $6,750 discounts subtracted from that number.
(4) If your dealer is willing to discount the new vehicle to get you a bottom line price of $54,500 (or whatever the correct MSRP is, less $10k+/-), then I think the $40-$41k they are offering for your 2011 w/ 29k miles is reasonable. Especially if your state allows you to deduct that amount of trade in to figure your state sales tax on the balance. If you are in a 6% sales tax state like Maryland, that will save you $2,400+ in sales tax. But, if the dealer was offering $40-41k on a trade that had you paying full MSRP for the new car, that's a terrible deal. Get to the bottom line on the new vehicle first, then negotiate your trade.
(5) If you have the time and live remotely within driving distance of Spartanburg, South Carolina consider ordering a new 2013 to your exact specs through the dealer and picking it up yourself at the BMW Performance Delivery Center. They put you up for a night in the Marriott, you get a full morning on the track and off road course in their vehicles, lunch, factory tour, museum tour, and personal delivery of your new vehicle. It is an absolute first class operation and an experience that you will never forget. It took us about 5-6 weeks from placing the order to having the car built and ready for pick up.
Thank you so much for taking the time to write me such a detailed response. I initially responded but had one follow up question. As you mentioned, I have looked at the Edmunds TMV and it is showing me three columns 1) Invoice 2) MSRP, and 3) True Market Value. If I am understanding you correctly, and please correct me if I am wrong, their offer (even if I build on bmwusa.com should be no more than $1,000 over the invoice; not the TMV... And this is taking into account MACO and processing fees?
I live in North Carolina, so will need to check on the state deductions for trade in vs sales tax on new vehicle. My initial thought of $40k trade-in seemed ridiculous considering the MSRP, so you have calmed my anxiety and frustration somewhat.
Thanks again.
Well, I should have guessed from your name that you were close enough to South Carolina to do the Performance Delivery Center pickup. Don't even consider buying an X5d off the lot or have it delivered to the dealership. I will never buy another BMW any other way than through the Performance Delivery Center pickup.
Back to your questions, yes, you should use the Edmunds invoice numbers (not TMV) add $1,000+/- dealer profit and perhaps add another $300-$400 for the MACO that is not included in the Edmunds invoice. Then subtract all of your discounts. Have the dealer show you on their invoice printout, what their MACO is; it can vary dealer by dealer and state by state.
Good luck.
Can you guys weigh in on how good or bad these terms are.
Lease 2012 35D Sticker 65,295
Invoice 60,105
Negotiated price 60855
Rebates total 6750
Actual car cost 54105
Cash down 5700
includes...725 acq fee
549 first month
400 reg and title etc
450 tax
3576 down payment
Money factor .00125
Residual 54%
Monthly $550.
Thanks!!!!!
Can't really comment on the lease terms, as I only buy and haven't shopped leases.
Check into it. BMW of Silver Spring would probably do a deal at $1,000 over invoice on a 2013 X5d order, if you need to rustle up some competition.
Thanks for your help hab....and everyone else feel free to weigh in...I have 14 hours before I sign!!!
LOL
In any event, it sounds like you have a very good deal at invoice on the '12 and given that you are leasing, the fact that it is an one year older model year will make no financial difference to you when you turn in the keys. So I'd say go for it, congratulations and start enjoying the vehicle.
I think im good...always wonder if you couldnt have gotten a bit more though
I think you did great. At least $1,250 better than I did in July, based upon holiday credit (I had $1,000 Olympic), and I paid closer to $750 over invoice. Congratulations.
Thanks
Compare it to buying a toaster that sells for $79, but comes with a $20 rebate.... You pay tax on the full $79..
Works the same way for cars... in most states...
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Sigh..what a waste of time
That's true, if we are talking "rebates". But BMW - and my dealer - were careful to subtract the eco-credit off the top line as a "credit". That's like selling something with a $10 off sale - you don't pay tax on the pre-sale price.
I just called my dealer on another matter and asked. The only thing they treat as a rebate is the BMWCCA rebate that you get directly from them, when you buy a new car. The BMWNA eco-credit, holiday credit, loyalty credit, are all treated as credits, not rebates. Therefore no Maryland sales tax on any of them. They reduce the sales price before the tax is calculated. They aren't in jail (yet) so that's good by me.
Well screw them and order a 2013 for Performance Delivery Center pick up. From an honest dealer.
Holiday Credit/Cash -
Must finance/lease with BMW FS
Offer is valid from Dec 1st - Jan 2nd, 13
It is lockable
Does not reduce the selling price
It is used as a down payment (finance); a cap reduction or to pay drive offs (lease)
Loyalty Credit -
FS funded contracts ONLY
May be combined with HC
It is lockable
Does not reduce selling price
It is used as a down payment (finance); a cap reduction or to pay drive offs (lease)
ECO credit -
Discounted off selling price
So... according to him... Loyalty and Holiday credits are used as down-payments (taxable)... and ECO credit reduces the price (non-taxable).
That doesn't mean that your dealer isn't doing it the other way... just another $0.02..
regards,
kyfdx
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MSRP - $62,795
Monthly payment - $685 including 6.25% MA sales tax
Cash due - $2124 (first, fees and $884 cap reduction)
I know you guys will do the math to figure out all the other numbers i am missing. Just wanted to share as I rely on this forum every couple of years when leasing a new car.
Good luck on your deal!
I am new to leasing and received a quote today for a 2013 X5 Base with Conv. Package, power tailgate, satellite radio are the only options selected, we have credit rating over 750, and want to ensure we are getting the best deal we can, any insight or advice is appreciated, we didn't want to put that much down given it is a lease. We planned on ordering ours since they didnt have the color combo and package we wanted. What are your thoughts on this offer a 2012 would be fine as well but may have to settle for alternate color combo.
$54,145 purchase price
MF .00165
53% residual
39 month lease
10K miles/yr
$614/month (this includes tax)
$5128 Out of pocket which includes first month payment
Our sales person is taking the Loyalty credit ($750) and Holiday credit ($1500) and applying as a credit on the capital cost reduction, our total out of pocket would be $5128, not really sure this is a great deal.
Thank you
The numbers for an otherwise identical 36-month lease are .00135 and 56%.
This month there's still a $1,500 holiday credit and $750 owner loyalty cash available on this model.
Car_man
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The numbers for an otherwise identical lease of an xDrive50i are .00125 and 59%.
When negotiating your deal on either of these trucks make sure to take advantage of the $1,500 holiday cash and $750 owner loyalty cash that BMW is providing on them right now.
Car_man
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Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum
Car_man
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Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum
Hi Everyone,
Thought I would give specifics to help others with there negotiations - I hate the way car dealers do business.
X5d with premium packageand heads up display
On 36 month 12,000mile lease
Sticker - 62345
discount from sticker 4535
Negotiated price - 57860 (invoice was 57430)
eco and holiday credit - 6000
Initial cap cost - 51860
add crap fees (725 bmw finance, 399 doc fee, 17 state tire tax fee) - 1141
Net cap cost 53001
lease factor .00125
Residual .53
Monthly payment 661.95
Can someone let me know if this is accurate or if I should just go to another dealer.
PURCHASE OPTION
Vehicle Price: $63,345.00
Market Savings: - $6,237.00
SmartChoice Price: $57,108.00
Sales Tax (estimate): + $4,434.32
Tire/Battery/MVWEA: + $7.00
Tag/Registration Fees (estimate): + $441.00
Flat Add/County Fee: + $8.00
Electronic Filing: + $29.00
Smog Abatement Fee: + $20.00
Documentation Fee: + $80.00
Balance Due (estimate): $62,127.32
With $4,500 down a monthly payment of $759
Basically what should I be targeting for a monthly payment? Another dealer offered me:
$62845 msrp
$60845 sale
$6k rebate
$4500 down payment
36mos 12/yr
$683.93
$53.00 tax 7.75%
$736.93/mo
Any assistance would be greatly appreciated! Thank you!!!