I think the Sedan has less HP than the Coupe. More cargo space as well. The question is, will you really notice the extra 30 ponies? I'm not too sure, but I gonna find out this weekend :P I'm contemplating both of them right now.
That is true, you may find dealer dealing lower than VPP - for sure if they have a large doc fee. They may quote invoice or less then stick the doc fee on top to net out over invoice by a few hundred. Find a dealer (like mine) that has no doc fee and they will not offer prices that low (net) - they can't. Use a VPP claim code at a dealer that has no doc fee and that is the price you pay. VPP rules say the dealer gets to charge you their normal doc fee and can make you pay for dealer installed options that are on the car. They also can jack up the lease MF as well. VPP just covers the price.
I would either find a dealer with no fee and use the VPP or just ignore the VPP and get the best deal you can that is less than $300 over invoice for the car, destination, and fee. Note that the dealer makes a 2.5% delivery fee if you use a VPP claim code, so selling you the car w/o VPP for $300 over or for VPP at $300 over should result is a good bit more profit if you used the VPP code.
I just assume the invoice increase was the same as the MSRP, since I no longer have access to the pre-increase invoice costs. So if the MSRP is $207 higher on "car a" than on "car b" that have the same equipment, just look up invoice on the current "car a" and make sure MSRP matches, then take off the $207 from the invoice to get "close enough" to the invoice on "car b".
The G37 has more ponies but is heavier, so your net performance difference is not going to be that great. If you are buying, the sedan is several thousand less for the same equipment as the coupe - a MUCH better deal. If you are leasing then the higher coupe residual makes it closer in price. Net cap is higher but so is residual.
I got a coupe because my kids are just about all grown and mainly because they can never find a 6mt sedan in the colors and equipment I want. They found the coupe just like I wanted (except it had splash / net / mat) in the right colors so I took it. The lease terms made it close to the same money per month as a sedan with the same options.
If you are getting an auto tranny car, then I would just get the sedan I think. You get the CD changer (trunk mounted) and a lot more cabin and trunk room and wider seats (even with the sports pack). The stereo sounds better in the sedan than in the coupe, to me anyway. Still a fun to drive car without a doubt. I would have a sedan now if the everything had fallen in place, but I still love the coupe. Slightly more to insure a coupe as well. There are one or two more things missing from the coupe that you get on the sedan, but I can't think of what they are off hand.
Because of how few miles I actually rack up in a year these days, leasing seems to make a great deal of sense. That said, because I've never done this before, the intricacies are something of a mystery to me. I'm interested in the G37 Journey with Nav & Premium. I do not have a trade-in vehicle as I plan on giving my current car away. My FICO score is ~775, live in Texas, and can put money down if needed. Can any lease expert suggest a reasonable lease target I should negociate towards?
Here are some highlights from a recent online lease quote:
"G37 coupe with cargo net, illuminated kick plate, navigation, premium package. The MSRP is $41745. and the sales price is $39,720. 39 months 12K miles/year with first and license fees down $790.82 = $608.27. 39 months 10K miles/year with first and license fees down $781.11=$598.56"
I recommend finding out the Money Factor, Residual, Doc Fee, Bank Fee, Sale Price and make your own calculations based on that. Don't negotiate monthly payments. If you need help calculating that, use a Lease Calculator or calculate that on your own using theLease Formula.
As user gforce11 says, you need to bargain down the price on the car first - then worry about the lease terms. You need to be within $500 of invoice price when you include the car, destination, and any dealer doc or prep fees.
Leasing is Texas is not so hot since they tax the entire negotiated price of the car - the same as if you purchased it. However, some folks have posted that Infiniti and Texas (or one of them) have worked out a tax break on leases. The only way I would think about it is if I didn't have to pay full tax or if the rate was really, really low (like 1% or less effective rate).
Appreciate the replys. You mention being within $500 dollars of Invoice price. If I take a look at Edmunds for the vehicle I am considering (G37 w/nav & prem), I get the following figures:
MSRP - $41,365 INVOICE - $37,781 TMV - $40,368
Assuming I'm understanding your suggestion, I should attempt to negociate a price w/in $500 of $37781, which will probably be difficult based on the fact that others seem to be settling for $40368 as reflected by the TMV. At this point I can get a lease quote from the dealer and perhaps some from leasecompare.com and go from there. Sound about right?
When I say "invoice" I mean the invoice including the destination charge - which Edmunds does not.
Did you want an auto or 6mt? MSRP on a G37 journey with nav and premium would be $41,815 with an invoice of $38,198. A 6mt would be $42,365 and $38,702.
If you find a pre-price increase car it will be $200 or so cheaper.
TMV does not mean anything to me, I don't think it accurately reflects deals folks are getting and reporting here. Your job is to find a dealer that will give you a bottom line price on the car - they are out there if you hunt them up. Once you have the best price, then you plug in the lease numbers and see how the payment works out. You can compare what a 3rd party bank will do at leasecompare.com , but IFS captive lease deals will almost always be cheaper. You have to watch for Infiniti dealers marking up the lease rate for extra profit - so be sure ask about that and compare rates with different dealers.
So deal the price down low, then ask for the lease rate and residual and work the payment out yourself. Compare the results from more than one dealer and see how it looks. You will have to ask some area dealers about the Texas lease tax break.
If you work for a company that does business with Nissan / Infiniti you may qualify for a VPP claim code which will get you a price about $300 over invoice w/o haggling. That works if you know someone that works for either company. Lots of banks, insurance companies, etc are on the list.
"If you work for a company that does business with Nissan / Infiniti you may qualify for a VPP claim code which will get you a price about $300 over invoice w/o haggling. That works if you know someone that works for either company. Lots of banks, insurance companies, etc are on the list."
Thanks, this is very helpful. I contacted our HR dept. and in fact we do qualify for a VPP claim code.
Go to the vendor VPP page here at this link to read about it. Click on "get VPP claim code" and put in your company name and see if it pulls it up. If so, you can get the code right there online You will have to provide proof of employment at the dealership when you pick up the car.
With a VPP claim code you still have to shop around - ask each dealer how much their doc fee is, if the cars have any dealer installed options on them, and if they mark up the lease buy rate. If you find a dealer with little or no doc fee, no mandatory add ons, and no mark up then see if they will except a VPP code on the coupe you want. If so, you have a done deal for a nice price.
Regarding the VPP program. Today, I was able to get a quote for $200 over invoice WITHOUT the VPP. As a matter of fact, VPP I got quoted is $400 over invoice. So don't get too caught up with the VPP being the lowest price you can get. There could be a lower one out there somewhere.
So $200 over invoice, $595 bank fee, $45 doc fee. All I need now is to see what I get for my trade-in.
Props to laderaking, your guy at Mission Viejo Infiniti is straight up guy. He doesn't have the exact color I want for the G37, but I'm still going to work with him to see what kind of deal we can swing.
Many thanks for all the help, laderaking and Dennis. Now I gotta go drive the car.
first and foremost, thank you for your valuable help Dennis. not just for myself, but others on this board. also thanks to the other lease-savvy helpers out there.
i have a two part question if you'll indulge me, the first being easy and straight forward:
1. do you happen to know the "tier" cutoff points based on fico score for IFS? my fico is 673, w/ zero collections on it. i've been told i'm a tier II by the dealer and the cut off is like 689. is this true?
2. here is the deal from the 1st dealer in texas that has the exact car i want. (one might ask why lease from texas if i live in oklahoma? well they're the only dealer in my region who has this car. i figure that will be my best chance considering transportation fee's etc. please correct my thinking if i'm wrong)
first the details on the car from my first offer:
2008 G35 sport w/stone interior
$30,076 base invoice $46 trunk cargo net $2,155 premium package $115 splash guard $1,422 sport package $76 trunk mat $765 freight charge
$34,655 total invoice from infiniti intl
$37,935 msrp
the dealer said they would sell for $600 over invoice $35,255
residual= 59% (is that 59% of msrp? or invoice? i assume msrp) 36 mo term 15,000 miles .0022 MF (said i was tier II) something like $700 out the door tag tax and title $532/mo
i'd really like to be under $500 seeing as though insurance will run around $85/mo what do you think??
1. No idea, but typically 700+ is considered "good" credit. So if you fall under that, then you are most likely tier 2.
2. I think $600 is kinda high. Even the highest quote I got was $400 over invoice. It doesn't really matter if they have "exactly" what you want. If you are too fixed on that aspect and they notice it, they will exploit you (if they are sleezy)
In terms of residual, it looks about right. A thought if I may, why don't you consider doing a 12,000 lease, you actually drive that much? at 12k you might save yourself like 10-15 bucks. Also, one of the dealers tells me the 39 mo term yields lowest payments. I don't have the details on that tho.
I agree, but you are in SoCal - right? It varies by region it seems what kind of prices you can get. If I could walk into a dealership and drive out for $300 over invoice with no doc fee it would not be worth much of my time to haggle to save $100. That said, in many areas of the country you have to work and / or travel a bit to get close to invoice. If you are in an area where you just can't get a deal then a VPP can be a way out.
IFS / NMAC has a tier 0 which is 740+, tier 1 is 700-739, tier 2 is 660-699, tier 3 is 620-659, and tier 4 is 580-619. You need to be in 1 or 0 to get the top rate. The also are likely to use an "auto enhanced" score which gives more weight to paid off car loans and leases than to other debt - so your FICO or FAKO score may be higher or lower than the score THEY assign to you.
That is actually a G35 journey with sports pack and not a sport - sport = 6mt.
Residual is based on MSRP including destination.
What is the dealer's doc or prep fee? If they say $600 over and then stick a big fee on top of the $600 then it is not so hot a deal. That car does not appear to me to be rare or hard to find, but $600 over if it included the fees would not be that bad.
If I plug in your price, 59% of MSRP, MF, and 36 months into my lease calc I get $484.35 per month base payment with the $595 bank fee and first month's lease payment due at signing.
I think OK is like Texas and charges tax on the full price of the car. So if your rate is 3.9% then $1,374.95 tax would be due. If I add that to your price I get $525.57 per month. So pretty close to what they have, but my payment would be with $525.57 + $595 due at signing, if you cut that down to $700 then the payment would go up.
You have to learn how to figure this stuff out so you can check all the dealer's numbers and see where the money goes. Otherwise they can sneak stuff onto your deal and you not know it. We only see the top tier rates so "who knows" if the dealer is marking up your rate or not. You could try a deal with another dealer and see if they give the same rate.
surprisingly the one dealer I thought would be the most expensive turned out to be the cheapest and easiest to deal with. I got a Journey 24mth lease -0- down 10k mi/yr with Prem & NAV for $416mth+tax. Fees = bank $795+dest$715
picking it up next week. On my receipt it indicates $795 bank fee+ $715 destination + $180 for NY plates & registration =$1,690 Let's hope that's all I have to pay! It must be a new york area thing to mark up the bank fee to $795, I've spoken to 3 other dealers and everyone's bank fee is $795.
Make sure that this is an IFS lease and not a 3rd party lease. If a 3rd party lease watch out for an open ended lease. Some dealer(s) in NY were advertising really cheap sounding lease deals - turns out it was an open ended lease which is NOTHING you want any part of. With "nothing down" and a $400 payment it sounds like this is not a normal lease.
yeah specially for a journey premium with navi. I got a $450+ tax quote with $800 and I had no navi. Thats $400 over invoice too. Something doesn't sound right.
thx for the help guys. i'm currently waiting to hear back from one other dealer in texas.
as for the car being rare, i don't think it's really all that rare, more so that it's not as popular as the black/graphite duo. the stone interior makes it more rare and harder to find. in a 28 state area, there aren't any 2008 black g35's w/stone interior sitting on anyone's lot. there may be on one of the coast's, but that's completely cost prohibitive for me.
gforce: i do appreciate your cautioning me in being adamant about my choices. before the deal is said and done, i'll come to the table equipped with knowledge. i also have been sitting on the idea of this car for 8 mo's and let them know that. if i wait another 5 month's, so be it, it won't be a big deal to me i'm just searcginh for the best deal possible. thanks to you guys, we're all able to compare notes in order to know where we stand.
question: how accurate is the edmunds site as far as "invoice pricing?" anyone know where their information comes from? the dealer in texas basically told me to go buy the car from mr. edmund, and that mr. edmund has not returned his calls since 03'. it's all been very amusing. of course he said it all in geest.
secondly:
most these dealers don't want to move away from the TMV/"what everybody's paying"(edmund) price as their "sales price" or "initial cap cost." additionally, one dealer has mentioned he may be able to get my MF lowered with a call to IFS due to their "high volume" sales history. all interesting banter nonetheless.
i'd love the information on where you got this car. would like to call them. i'm looking for the same car you got minus the nav, but add sport edition.
If a dealer says the invoice price is not correct, ask him to pull the invoice for the car you want and show it to you. Double check the prices at Edmunds, KBB, and carsdirect.com and see if they all agree. You also have to make sure the MSRP on the window sticker matches the MSRP total with options that you check online. If that does not match then your invoice is not going to be correct. They have 2 price increases so far this model year, I think. So depending on when the car in question was made it could have one of 3 different prices.
I think I would find another dealer, this one does not sound too bright. Are you doing all this via e-mail? Talk to the "Internet sales manager" via e-mail at all area dealers and see what kind of prices you can find. I would never call or walk into a dealership for anything other than a test drive until I was ready to pick up the car.
The dealer may be correct on the rate, if you read the info on the IFS web page it says, in part:
When you finance a car at an Infiniti Retailer, you will enter into a retail installment contract with the Retailer. If IFS approves your credit application, your Retailer may elect to assign the retail installment contract to IFS.
If that is the case, the dealer may be willing or able to give you a better rate.
I intend to lease this car in the next 2 weeks. This deal sounds a great deal better than anything I can find. Where and from whom did you lease it? This sounds too good to be true. Would really appreciate your reply Thanks Gipsyjune
The dealer is Manhattan infiniti in New York city. You you can ask for the internet salesperson, but anyone can help you, since the sale and lease prices are listed on each car in the show room. Keep in mind that I have not picked up the car yet, so it's yet to be seen if the deal is legit without any hidden costs.
I will post a follow-up after I pick it up this week.
Be very careful when dealing with this dealership. I too was going to get an Infiniti a couple of months back when they ran those amazing $199 specials and it turned out to be an open end lease. Make sure it is a closed end lease. I am willing to bet it is an open end lease because they don't run it through Infiniti Financial but through a 3rd party bank.
I’ve been a silent observer for a while now and I have learned a great deal regarding the ins and outs of financing and in particular leasing. I am interested in a G35x to replace my BMW 325xi. By chance I happened to have a few hours yesterday and took a one out for test drive. I was impressed and an now ready to get serious about driving the best possible deal. With that said I have a few questions I hope that that you knowledgeable folks can shed some light on for me.
1) The rates quoted on this site for a G35x are on 15k are:
Using quote of 39675 including fees (yes I know it is really high but it was a first pass) I come up with the following for a 24 and 36 month lease with 5% tax as follows:
36 month = 547.96 24 month = 422.42
I am sure I have read on here and other sites that most people recommend going with at 36 month lease. My question is this. Unless I have grossly misunderstood the calculations then why would I not want to go with a 24 month lease? Especially given that it is over $120/month cheaper? What are the pros of going with a 36 month and the cons of a 24 month?
2) I found out that they first dealer I went to marks up the MF for leases. They are quoting a MF for a 36 month lease at 0.00170. As I didn’t ask for anything more than a first pass I did not question it. My question to your folks however is, where other than here I can find posted IFS money factor rates. My credit should be Tier 1 (that’s what I told them) and they did not pull my credit so they could only go on what I told them. I want to be able to quickly point to a “known” website or source that provides the ‘real’ MF rates.
3) When trading in a car on a lease is it better to take the money back in cash? I read here that putting money down to reduce CC on a lease does not make sense but I want to make sure taking the case back from a trade-in is the thing to do. Or are there better options?
Thank you to all you folks who help out! This forum, site and the people who visit it looking for information are much richer for it.
You don't show MSRP or what you are paying (without fees) or what equipment is on the car, so I can't run the exact numbers you did. So we will do just and example, a G35x with premium, net, and splash. MSRP is $38,030 and invoice is $34,862 and we will say the dealer will sell the car for $35,700 for the car, destination and dealer fee.
If we look at the 24 month 0.00131 and 70% of MSRP for residual, I get $459.31 per month w/o tax and $482.27 w/5% tax on the payment.
36 month is 0.00150 and 60% of MSRP, I get $445.61 and $467.89 with 5% tax.
So I don't know where you got your figures, but that is what I come up with. This would be leased at that price with the $595 bank fee and first payment due at signing plus any tags / title fees.
You should be able to get the car for less, say $500 over invoice including dealer fees, which will make the payment less.
Normally the 36 month is the sweet spot in the lease - the car is still under warranty and the initial depreciation is spread out of a longer term. In this case, IFS is running a special 24 month deal that makes it quite attractive to pay just a little more and have a 2/3 length lease (compared to 36 months). They have had promo 12 month leases in the past that worked out to be good deals, so you just have to run the numbers and see how it looks.
Just ask the dealers if they mark up the rates, everyone that I ever asked that did - admitted it to me. When you contact the dealers in your area ask for a price on the car to include destination, ask how much their dealer doc/prep fee is, and ask if they mark up the lease rates. You have to know all this info so you narrow your choices down. You might also as if their cars have any dealer installed options. An old trick is to give a nice price on the car and when you come to pick one out you find they all have > $1k work of dealer options on it that they expect to tack onto the price of the car.
We always say not to put much money into a lease since you can lose your investment if the car is stolen or totalled. You can sell your car to any other dealer, including those like CarMax or DriversWay. You can sell it to a private party. You can trade it to the dealer. Anything you get over the pay off in any case you should get in the form or a check. If you don't have much equity, say enough to cover the bank fee and the first month's payment then you could just it for that.
Dennis These numbers are rediculous! or maybe Im just using a bad calculation spreadsheet.
Interested in a G35x w Premium package and possibly nav. At a 24 month lease and 15k miles, 70% residual, .00131 MF, getting near 370 / month. what am I doing wrong?
MSRP 37815, guessing a sale price of 36000
Anyone know what Im doing wrong, or should price really be this low??
$36,000 selling price, residual of $26,470.50, MF of 0.00131, for 24 months figures a payment of $478.90 .
If you simply figure the difference between selling price ($36,000) and residual ($26470.50) you get $9,529.50, divide that by 24 and you get the principle payment of the lease at it is $397.07 per month. So your payment is way off.
Depreciation Fee = ( Net Cap Cost – Residual ) ÷ Term Finance Fee = ( Net Cap Cost + Residual ) × Money Factor Payment = Depreciation Fee + Finance Fee
Truly appreciate your help. I think you helped me correct my own stupidity. First, apologize for not including the details as I was more using those numbers as an example rather than what I was working with. But in this case MSRP was $40575 and price from dealer was $38985 including destination. I haven’t confirmed invoice but the dealer said $37245. Like I said they were high.
But using your example of MSRP of $38,030 and CC of $35,700 I redid my work and found that I was way off. I wrote a formula in Excel to help me when I get the numbers back from the other dealers I’ve requested quotes from. I was quoting at 36 months and had my base data entered that way. Turns out when I went to compare the 24 month payments, I adjusted the residual and the MF but was asleep at the wheel and left the number of months to at 36. So I was dividing the MF at 0.00131 and residual at 70% by 36. And today is only Monday? Anyway apologize for the stupidity.
I reran my Excel formula using your example above and came up with the following:
24 month $459.93 and $482.93 with tax 36 month 445.61 and $467.89 with tax
Which are very close to your numbers. So I now see that a 24 month lease is does cost more each month. Which is what I read before and looking at it, now makes sense.
Your information on the dealer installed options is a good one. I was looking at the sticker on the car with MSRP but I guess the dealer is free to install whatever they want after the fact and drive the price of the car up. I will keep the dealer option in mind. Also, as I said I didn't really question or call them on it but I did ask the sales guy what the rate was and if they marked it up and he either played dumb or honestly did not know if they marked up the MF. I asked him to find out what the MF rate was and he called the finance person who responded with a 0.00170 and a 62% residual for a 36 month 10k lease. Again I told them I was tier 1 so they couldn’t have adjusted for credit, so I can only assume they mark up the MF. I left it at that and decided to shop around before asking them anything else on it. I’ve contacted a few other local dealers tonight and asked for the MF, residual, prices, destination, bank and prep/doc fees to be broken out so I’ll see what I get.
And your information on selling the car is an interesting one. I still owe on the car and have never sold a car I did not own outright. Honestly I wasn’t looking for the hassle but based on the prices offered to me for the 325xi by this dealer I may have to. I also didn’t want to include the trade too early in the deal as I wanted to focus on price and rates first. I will look into CarMax an DriversWay to see what they are about. Really appreciate the information and help.
Regarding Carmax...I went to them yesterday, if you have more than $250 in negative equity, you will need to have cash or certified check. You can even sell them a leased vehicle (providing your lending bank approves...some don't want you selling their vehicle to get off the lease). I went to Carmax and 2 Infiniti dealers in Southern California, 1 of the dealers and Carmax gave me the the same offer, the other dealer gave me $200 less. So Carmax may or may not give you more than some dealers, but its worth checking it out. my 2 cents. :P
Sorry for the confusion Dennis I didnt mention that I am putting 2500 down. I reran my program with no money down, and our numbers match up. So throwing in 2500 down brings me to a payment of 370+tax=382. MSRP= 37265 Selling Price 36000 2500 down Net cap 33500 Residual 26530 24 month term MF .00131 7% tax
382 with tax. I hope im doing that right, Can anyone confirm before I walk into the dealer with these numbers in mind?
Does anyone have the current IFS May residual and money factor rates for a G37 Journey? I've found conflicting #'s from a couple of different sites.
I'm in the process of leasing the G37 between now and July. I know it's impossible to predict the future, but does anyone have any insight on what we can expect the residuals and money factor rates to do over the next two months?
Why not put the 2,500.00 down payment in a high yield checking account and pull out the extra 50.00 each month to put towards your payment. It is never a good idea to put large down payments on lease cars.
How much did you put down up front. I have talked to Las Vegas dealers and Scottsdale dealer and can't get anyone to come anywhere close to these figures on a fully loaded G35. $525, 36 mos -0- down.
John, your residual value is not right. If I remember correctly the residual value is calculated on the MSRP not on the negotiated price. So calculate based on that value. It came to 379.56 before taxes according to my calculation.
Thanks for the info on Carmax. Unfortunately Carmax does not have much of a presence in the north east and the closest one is 2 states over and in order to do the appraise they need to see the car.
Hi, Ive never leased a car before and have been reading through the forums and some sites and Im trying to get some info together before heading to the Infiniti Dealer so I don't get ripped off.
I live in NJ and am looking to lease an Infiniti G37 Journey with premium package, sport package, splash guards. I would be doing a 36 month lease with the least amount of miles they will negotiate(10,000 or 12,000) a year.
How much above invoice should I try to negotiate for the base cap cost? From reading through pages of posts it looks like most people are getting 500 above invoice. Is this true? What is the highest above invoice you'd recommend going at this time for base cap cost? Im thinking of printing out the Invoice pricing from Edmunds/Yahoo and showing it to the dealer and say how close to this can you get rather then haggle with him.
Also what is the current Residual Value and Money Factor/Interest Rate that Infiniti is using this month? I have very good credit if that comes into play in the interest rate.
I am guessing that once I have this information along with the NJ sales tax of 7% that I can plug the #'s into a calculator online and come up with my monthly payments.
Is there anything I should be aware of before going into the dealership? Anything that they will try to throw into the lease to screw me over or things that they will offer me that I do not need? How does Gap insurance work - does infiniti include this or do i pay extra and if so how much should i be willing to pay? How about general dings and dents, is there a clause in the lease I should look for? Like I said Im new to this and want to ensure that I get the best deal possible without getting screwed.
Lastly, would I get a better deal if I held off a week and went during Memorial Day weekend or will it be essentially the same regardless of this week or next?
If you have been reading the forum, you should have learned that the dealer's showroom is the LAST place you want to go to work a deal. Contact the "Internet sales manager" or "Internet sales department" at all the dealerships in your area and work the deals via e-mail. Don't bother to go onto the lot until you have a nice deal worked out. It will save you a lot of time and money. Most folks spend WAY too much time trying to hammer prices at a dealership and often will let the dealer grind them down until they accept something just to get a deal and a car. It does not and should not be that hard.
Thanks Dennis. What info should I provide the internet sales manager when I first reach out to them? Model, color, options. Should I say anthing about what im looking to pay or anythign along those lines?
Im really not desperate to get a new car, its more along the lines of it would be nice to have. So if I can't find a dealer to give me a good deal then I can walk out and not think twice about it. I outright own my current car and could continue driving it if need be. Its an older vehicle(96 taurus) which is why id prefer to get something new. I dont drive to work so its essentially a leisure time use vehicle. So the G37 would be more like a toy for me.
Also, a family friend has been using the same salesmen and they have recently leased 2 G35X's from this guy as well as their 2 previous G35X's. Do you think that he would be more inclined to give a good deal to me to keep their future business?
It is hard to say. I think I would just contact all of the dealers in a 100-200 mile radius from home and tell them what you want (model, options, colors) and that you are ready to buy now if they give you the right price. Ask that they quote you the car with destination and any dealer doc or prep fees included. Also ask if any dealer installed options are already on the cars they sell. If you are specific about what you want and that you want all these included in the quote you should be able to find a dealer that gets you close to invoice including fees - say within $500. If you find one of these and they have the car you want, then ask them again about any other fees and if destination and dealer fees included. If they say OK, then have them give you the lease numbers for the term you want. Look up the lease buy rate posted earlier this month in this thread and include that in your lease request. State something like "the top tier buy rates is 0.00??? for this model, is that what you charge?". Once you have found a good deal with a dealer that does not mark up the rate, then you are mostly ready to go.
I would concentrate on price - car+destination+dealer fees first and not mention leasing at all. If you mention you want to lease they hit you with payments to cover up how much they are charging you for the car.
One more question(probably stupid too) - How do I go about contacting the internet sales manager for the dealerships? Do i just go through the infiniti website and select get quote?
Use the dealer locator to find the dealer and look up their web page. Most will have some link there to contract the "Internet sales" folks. You can also request quotes from Edmunds and check prices at carsdirect.com (use different ZIP codes).
If your employer does business with Nissan / Infiniti you may qualify for a VPP code which will get the price set to about $300 over invoice. You can search for your company name at this link.
i've worked up some "hopeful/hypothetical" numbers in the lease calculator(the residual was given by the dealer) and now i'm "trying" to make sense of how to compare/understand these numbers when i put it into my finance calculator to see if the payments match. let me explain in greater detail.
car= 08 journey, sport, premium, splash
lease calc=
sales price $35,050 taxes at 3,25 of $1,139 term 39/mo resid $22,381 (based off a $37,935 (59%) msrp) MF=00.175(hypothetical again) 15,000 miles acq $595 sec dep $500
payment = $481.90
here comes the question. is there a way, to use my "financial calulator" to compare the deal??
meaning.....if i take MSRP + taxes=$39,074
subtract the residual value of $22,381, i come up with $16,693 that i'm financing over 39 mo's in this case.
so enter in finance calc: N=39 interest rate=4.2 (.00175 x 2400) Present Value= $16,693
compute payment= $458.65
but the lease calculator has the same setup giving me 481.90?
what am i missing guys? besides my brain? long day i guess.
I found the following link useful in putting together my 'calculator'. I created a formula in Microsoft Excel that does the lease calculation. Hopefully it can help you figure how you want to build a calculation you can use as well.
Hey jeremyw. This car's lease program varies by term and mileage allowance. You never mentioned what either of these variables are, so for now I will assume that you are interested in a 36 month lease with 15,000 miles per year. Let me know if you want something different. Infiniti Financial Services' current buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 36 month lease of a base 2008 Infiniti G37 Coupe with 15,000 miles per year are .00192 and 63%, respectively. The residual value for a lease with only 12,000 miles per year is 1% higher.
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I would either find a dealer with no fee and use the VPP or just ignore the VPP and get the best deal you can that is less than $300 over invoice for the car, destination, and fee. Note that the dealer makes a 2.5% delivery fee if you use a VPP claim code, so selling you the car w/o VPP for $300 over or for VPP at $300 over should result is a good bit more profit if you used the VPP code.
Dennis
The G37 has more ponies but is heavier, so your net performance difference is not going to be that great. If you are buying, the sedan is several thousand less for the same equipment as the coupe - a MUCH better deal. If you are leasing then the higher coupe residual makes it closer in price. Net cap is higher but so is residual.
I got a coupe because my kids are just about all grown and mainly because they can never find a 6mt sedan in the colors and equipment I want. They found the coupe just like I wanted (except it had splash / net / mat) in the right colors so I took it. The lease terms made it close to the same money per month as a sedan with the same options.
If you are getting an auto tranny car, then I would just get the sedan I think. You get the CD changer (trunk mounted) and a lot more cabin and trunk room and wider seats (even with the sports pack). The stereo sounds better in the sedan than in the coupe, to me anyway. Still a fun to drive car without a doubt. I would have a sedan now if the everything had fallen in place, but I still love the coupe. Slightly more to insure a coupe as well. There are one or two more things missing from the coupe that you get on the sedan, but I can't think of what they are off hand.
Dennis
Here are some highlights from a recent online lease quote:
"G37 coupe with cargo net, illuminated kick plate, navigation, premium package. The MSRP is $41745. and the sales price is $39,720. 39 months 12K miles/year with first and license fees down $790.82 = $608.27. 39 months 10K miles/year with first and license fees down $781.11=$598.56"
If you need help calculating that, use a Lease Calculator or calculate that on your own using theLease Formula.
Leasing is Texas is not so hot since they tax the entire negotiated price of the car - the same as if you purchased it. However, some folks have posted that Infiniti and Texas (or one of them) have worked out a tax break on leases. The only way I would think about it is if I didn't have to pay full tax or if the rate was really, really low (like 1% or less effective rate).
Dennis
MSRP - $41,365
INVOICE - $37,781
TMV - $40,368
Assuming I'm understanding your suggestion, I should attempt to negociate a price w/in $500 of $37781, which will probably be difficult based on the fact that others seem to be settling for $40368 as reflected by the TMV. At this point I can get a lease quote from the dealer and perhaps some from leasecompare.com and go from there. Sound about right?
Did you want an auto or 6mt? MSRP on a G37 journey with nav and premium would be $41,815 with an invoice of $38,198. A 6mt would be $42,365 and $38,702.
If you find a pre-price increase car it will be $200 or so cheaper.
TMV does not mean anything to me, I don't think it accurately reflects deals folks are getting and reporting here. Your job is to find a dealer that will give you a bottom line price on the car - they are out there if you hunt them up. Once you have the best price, then you plug in the lease numbers and see how the payment works out. You can compare what a 3rd party bank will do at leasecompare.com , but IFS captive lease deals will almost always be cheaper. You have to watch for Infiniti dealers marking up the lease rate for extra profit - so be sure ask about that and compare rates with different dealers.
So deal the price down low, then ask for the lease rate and residual and work the payment out yourself. Compare the results from more than one dealer and see how it looks. You will have to ask some area dealers about the Texas lease tax break.
If you work for a company that does business with Nissan / Infiniti you may qualify for a VPP claim code which will get you a price about $300 over invoice w/o haggling. That works if you know someone that works for either company. Lots of banks, insurance companies, etc are on the list.
Dennis
Thanks, this is very helpful. I contacted our HR dept. and in fact we do qualify for a VPP claim code.
With a VPP claim code you still have to shop around - ask each dealer how much their doc fee is, if the cars have any dealer installed options on them, and if they mark up the lease buy rate. If you find a dealer with little or no doc fee, no mandatory add ons, and no mark up then see if they will except a VPP code on the coupe you want. If so, you have a done deal for a nice price.
Dennis
So $200 over invoice, $595 bank fee, $45 doc fee. All I need now is to see what I get for my trade-in.
Props to laderaking, your guy at Mission Viejo Infiniti is straight up guy. He doesn't have the exact color I want for the G37, but I'm still going to work with him to see what kind of deal we can swing.
Many thanks for all the help, laderaking and Dennis. Now I gotta go drive the car.
i have a two part question if you'll indulge me, the first being easy and straight forward:
1. do you happen to know the "tier" cutoff points based on fico score for IFS? my fico is 673, w/ zero collections on it. i've been told i'm a tier II by the dealer and the cut off is like 689. is this true?
2. here is the deal from the 1st dealer in texas that has the exact car i want.
(one might ask why lease from texas if i live in oklahoma? well they're the only dealer in my region who has this car. i figure that will be my best chance considering transportation fee's etc. please correct my thinking if i'm wrong)
first the details on the car from my first offer:
2008 G35 sport w/stone interior
$30,076 base invoice
$46 trunk cargo net
$2,155 premium package
$115 splash guard
$1,422 sport package
$76 trunk mat
$765 freight charge
$34,655 total invoice from infiniti intl
$37,935 msrp
the dealer said they would sell for $600 over invoice
$35,255
residual= 59% (is that 59% of msrp? or invoice? i assume msrp)
36 mo term
15,000 miles
.0022 MF (said i was tier II)
something like $700 out the door tag tax and title
$532/mo
i'd really like to be under $500 seeing as though insurance will run around $85/mo
what do you think??
2. I think $600 is kinda high. Even the highest quote I got was $400 over invoice. It doesn't really matter if they have "exactly" what you want. If you are too fixed on that aspect and they notice it, they will exploit you (if they are sleezy)
In terms of residual, it looks about right. A thought if I may, why don't you consider doing a 12,000 lease, you actually drive that much? at 12k you might save yourself like 10-15 bucks. Also, one of the dealers tells me the 39 mo term yields lowest payments. I don't have the details on that tho.
Dennis
720- 850 - 1
680- 719 - 2
650- 679 - 3
600- 649 - 4
500- 599 - Sorry Charlie
2005 G35 Sedan2007 G35 Sedan
2008 G37 Sedan
2010 G37 Coupe
2012 G37 Sedan
2014 Q50 RWD
2017 Q60 3.0t RWD
2018 QX60 RWD
That is actually a G35 journey with sports pack and not a sport - sport = 6mt.
Residual is based on MSRP including destination.
What is the dealer's doc or prep fee? If they say $600 over and then stick a big fee on top of the $600 then it is not so hot a deal. That car does not appear to me to be rare or hard to find, but $600 over if it included the fees would not be that bad.
If I plug in your price, 59% of MSRP, MF, and 36 months into my lease calc I get $484.35 per month base payment with the $595 bank fee and first month's lease payment due at signing.
I think OK is like Texas and charges tax on the full price of the car. So if your rate is 3.9% then $1,374.95 tax would be due. If I add that to your price I get $525.57 per month. So pretty close to what they have, but my payment would be with $525.57 + $595 due at signing, if you cut that down to $700 then the payment would go up.
You have to learn how to figure this stuff out so you can check all the dealer's numbers and see where the money goes. Otherwise they can sneak stuff onto your deal and you not know it. We only see the top tier rates so "who knows" if the dealer is marking up your rate or not. You could try a deal with another dealer and see if they give the same rate.
Dennis
Your payment sounds low, but how much did you pay at signing?
Dennis
On my receipt it indicates $795 bank fee+ $715 destination + $180 for NY plates & registration =$1,690
Let's hope that's all I have to pay!
It must be a new york area thing to mark up the bank fee to $795, I've spoken to 3 other dealers and everyone's bank fee is $795.
Dennis
I got a $450+ tax quote with $800 and I had no navi. Thats $400 over invoice too. Something doesn't sound right.
as for the car being rare, i don't think it's really all that rare, more so that it's not as popular as the black/graphite duo. the stone interior makes it more rare and harder to find. in a 28 state area, there aren't any 2008 black g35's w/stone interior sitting on anyone's lot. there may be on one of the coast's, but that's completely cost prohibitive for me.
gforce:
i do appreciate your cautioning me in being adamant about my choices. before the deal is said and done, i'll come to the table equipped with knowledge. i also have been sitting on the idea of this car for 8 mo's and let them know that. if i wait another 5 month's, so be it, it won't be a big deal to me
question: how accurate is the edmunds site as far as "invoice pricing?" anyone know where their information comes from? the dealer in texas basically told me to go buy the car from mr. edmund, and that mr. edmund has not returned his calls since 03'. it's all been very amusing. of course he said it all in geest.
secondly:
most these dealers don't want to move away from the TMV/"what everybody's paying"(edmund) price as their "sales price" or "initial cap cost." additionally, one dealer has mentioned he may be able to get my MF lowered with a call to IFS due to their "high volume" sales history. all interesting banter nonetheless.
i'd love the information on where you got this car. would like to call them. i'm looking for the same car you got minus the nav, but add sport edition.
would appreciate knowing.....
I think I would find another dealer, this one does not sound too bright. Are you doing all this via e-mail? Talk to the "Internet sales manager" via e-mail at all area dealers and see what kind of prices you can find. I would never call or walk into a dealership for anything other than a test drive until I was ready to pick up the car.
The dealer may be correct on the rate, if you read the info on the IFS web page it says, in part:
When you finance a car at an Infiniti Retailer, you will enter into a retail installment contract with the Retailer. If IFS approves your credit application, your Retailer may elect to assign the retail installment contract to IFS.
If that is the case, the dealer may be willing or able to give you a better rate.
Dennis
Thanks
Gipsyjune
I will post a follow-up after I pick it up this week.
I’ve been a silent observer for a while now and I have learned a great deal regarding the ins and outs of financing and in particular leasing. I am interested in a G35x to replace my BMW 325xi. By chance I happened to have a few hours yesterday and took a one out for test drive. I was impressed and an now ready to get serious about driving the best possible deal. With that said I have a few questions I hope that that you knowledgeable folks can shed some light on for me.
1) The rates quoted on this site for a G35x are on 15k are:
G35 AWD:
24-70%-.00131
36-60%-.00150
39-59%-.00172
Using quote of 39675 including fees (yes I know it is really high but it was a first pass) I come up with the following for a 24 and 36 month lease with 5% tax as follows:
36 month = 547.96
24 month = 422.42
I am sure I have read on here and other sites that most people recommend going with at 36 month lease. My question is this. Unless I have grossly misunderstood the calculations then why would I not want to go with a 24 month lease? Especially given that it is over $120/month cheaper? What are the pros of going with a 36 month and the cons of a 24 month?
2) I found out that they first dealer I went to marks up the MF for leases. They are quoting a MF for a 36 month lease at 0.00170. As I didn’t ask for anything more than a first pass I did not question it. My question to your folks however is, where other than here I can find posted IFS money factor rates. My credit should be Tier 1 (that’s what I told them) and they did not pull my credit so they could only go on what I told them. I want to be able to quickly point to a “known” website or source that provides the ‘real’ MF rates.
3) When trading in a car on a lease is it better to take the money back in cash? I read here that putting money down to reduce CC on a lease does not make sense but I want to make sure taking the case back from a trade-in is the thing to do. Or are there better options?
Thank you to all you folks who help out! This forum, site and the people who visit it looking for information are much richer for it.
Thanks! -S
If we look at the 24 month 0.00131 and 70% of MSRP for residual, I get $459.31 per month w/o tax and $482.27 w/5% tax on the payment.
36 month is 0.00150 and 60% of MSRP, I get $445.61 and $467.89 with 5% tax.
So I don't know where you got your figures, but that is what I come up with. This would be leased at that price with the $595 bank fee and first payment due at signing plus any tags / title fees.
You should be able to get the car for less, say $500 over invoice including dealer fees, which will make the payment less.
Normally the 36 month is the sweet spot in the lease - the car is still under warranty and the initial depreciation is spread out of a longer term. In this case, IFS is running a special 24 month deal that makes it quite attractive to pay just a little more and have a 2/3 length lease (compared to 36 months). They have had promo 12 month leases in the past that worked out to be good deals, so you just have to run the numbers and see how it looks.
Just ask the dealers if they mark up the rates, everyone that I ever asked that did - admitted it to me. When you contact the dealers in your area ask for a price on the car to include destination, ask how much their dealer doc/prep fee is, and ask if they mark up the lease rates. You have to know all this info so you narrow your choices down. You might also as if their cars have any dealer installed options. An old trick is to give a nice price on the car and when you come to pick one out you find they all have > $1k work of dealer options on it that they expect to tack onto the price of the car.
We always say not to put much money into a lease since you can lose your investment if the car is stolen or totalled. You can sell your car to any other dealer, including those like CarMax or DriversWay. You can sell it to a private party. You can trade it to the dealer. Anything you get over the pay off in any case you should get in the form or a check. If you don't have much equity, say enough to cover the bank fee and the first month's payment then you could just it for that.
Dennis
These numbers are rediculous! or maybe Im just using a bad calculation spreadsheet.
Interested in a G35x w Premium package and possibly nav.
At a 24 month lease and 15k miles, 70% residual, .00131 MF, getting near 370 / month. what am I doing wrong?
MSRP 37815, guessing a sale price of 36000
Anyone know what Im doing wrong, or should price really be this low??
If you simply figure the difference between selling price ($36,000) and residual ($26470.50) you get $9,529.50, divide that by 24 and you get the principle payment of the lease at it is $397.07 per month. So your payment is way off.
Depreciation Fee = ( Net Cap Cost – Residual ) ÷ Term
Finance Fee = ( Net Cap Cost + Residual ) × Money Factor
Payment = Depreciation Fee + Finance Fee
Dennis
Truly appreciate your help. I think you helped me correct my own stupidity.
First, apologize for not including the details as I was more using those numbers as an example rather than what I was working with. But in this case MSRP was $40575 and price from dealer was $38985 including destination. I haven’t confirmed invoice but the dealer said $37245. Like I said they were high.
But using your example of MSRP of $38,030 and CC of $35,700 I redid my work and found that I was way off. I wrote a formula in Excel to help me when I get the numbers back from the other dealers I’ve requested quotes from. I was quoting at 36 months and had my base data entered that way. Turns out when I went to compare the 24 month payments, I adjusted the residual and the MF but was asleep at the wheel and left the number of months to at 36. So I was dividing the MF at 0.00131 and residual at 70% by 36. And today is only Monday? Anyway apologize for the stupidity.
I reran my Excel formula using your example above and came up with the following:
24 month $459.93 and $482.93 with tax
36 month 445.61 and $467.89 with tax
Which are very close to your numbers. So I now see that a 24 month lease is does cost more each month. Which is what I read before and looking at it, now makes sense.
Your information on the dealer installed options is a good one. I was looking at the sticker on the car with MSRP but I guess the dealer is free to install whatever they want after the fact and drive the price of the car up. I will keep the dealer option in mind. Also, as I said I didn't really question or call them on it but I did ask the sales guy what the rate was and if they marked it up and he either played dumb or honestly did not know if they marked up the MF. I asked him to find out what the MF rate was and he called the finance person who responded with a 0.00170 and a 62% residual for a 36 month 10k lease. Again I told them I was tier 1 so they couldn’t have adjusted for credit, so I can only assume they mark up the MF. I left it at that and decided to shop around before asking them anything else on it. I’ve contacted a few other local dealers tonight and asked for the MF, residual, prices, destination, bank and prep/doc fees to be broken out so I’ll see what I get.
And your information on selling the car is an interesting one. I still owe on the car and have never sold a car I did not own outright. Honestly I wasn’t looking for the hassle but based on the prices offered to me for the 325xi by this dealer I may have to. I also didn’t want to include the trade too early in the deal as I wanted to focus on price and rates first. I will look into CarMax an DriversWay to see what they are about. Really appreciate the information and help.
Thanks again Dennis!
-S
my 2 cents. :P
I didnt mention that I am putting 2500 down. I reran my program with no money down, and our numbers match up. So throwing in 2500 down brings me to a payment of 370+tax=382.
MSRP= 37265
Selling Price 36000
2500 down
Net cap 33500
Residual 26530
24 month term
MF .00131
7% tax
382 with tax. I hope im doing that right, Can anyone confirm before I walk into the dealer with these numbers in mind?
john
I'm in the process of leasing the G37 between now and July. I know it's impossible to predict the future, but does anyone have any insight on what we can expect the residuals and money factor rates to do over the next two months?
Help
Good Luck.
Thanks though. -S
Ive never leased a car before and have been reading through the forums and some sites and Im trying to get some info together before heading to the Infiniti Dealer so I don't get ripped off.
I live in NJ and am looking to lease an Infiniti G37 Journey with premium package, sport package, splash guards. I would be doing a 36 month lease with the least amount of miles they will negotiate(10,000 or 12,000) a year.
How much above invoice should I try to negotiate for the base cap cost? From reading through pages of posts it looks like most people are getting 500 above invoice. Is this true? What is the highest above invoice you'd recommend going at this time for base cap cost? Im thinking of printing out the Invoice pricing from Edmunds/Yahoo and showing it to the dealer and say how close to this can you get rather then haggle with him.
Also what is the current Residual Value and Money Factor/Interest Rate that Infiniti is using this month? I have very good credit if that comes into play in the interest rate.
I am guessing that once I have this information along with the NJ sales tax of 7% that I can plug the #'s into a calculator online and come up with my monthly payments.
Is there anything I should be aware of before going into the dealership? Anything that they will try to throw into the lease to screw me over or things that they will offer me that I do not need? How does Gap insurance work - does infiniti include this or do i pay extra and if so how much should i be willing to pay? How about general dings and dents, is there a clause in the lease I should look for? Like I said Im new to this and want to ensure that I get the best deal possible without getting screwed.
Lastly, would I get a better deal if I held off a week and went during Memorial Day weekend or will it be essentially the same regardless of this week or next?
Dennis
Im really not desperate to get a new car, its more along the lines of it would be nice to have. So if I can't find a dealer to give me a good deal then I can walk out and not think twice about it. I outright own my current car and could continue driving it if need be. Its an older vehicle(96 taurus) which is why id prefer to get something new. I dont drive to work so its essentially a leisure time use vehicle. So the G37 would be more like a toy for me.
Also, a family friend has been using the same salesmen and they have recently leased 2 G35X's from this guy as well as their 2 previous G35X's. Do you think that he would be more inclined to give a good deal to me to keep their future business?
I would concentrate on price - car+destination+dealer fees first and not mention leasing at all. If you mention you want to lease they hit you with payments to cover up how much they are charging you for the car.
Dennis
One more question(probably stupid too) - How do I go about contacting the internet sales manager for the dealerships? Do i just go through the infiniti website and select get quote?
If your employer does business with Nissan / Infiniti you may qualify for a VPP code which will get the price set to about $300 over invoice. You can search for your company name at this link.
Dennis
i've worked up some "hopeful/hypothetical" numbers in the lease calculator(the residual was given by the dealer) and now i'm "trying" to make sense of how to compare/understand these numbers when i put it into my finance calculator to see if the payments match. let me explain in greater detail.
car= 08 journey, sport, premium, splash
lease calc=
sales price $35,050
taxes at 3,25 of $1,139
term 39/mo
resid $22,381 (based off a $37,935 (59%) msrp)
MF=00.175(hypothetical again)
15,000 miles
acq $595
sec dep $500
payment = $481.90
here comes the question. is there a way, to use my "financial calulator" to compare the deal??
meaning.....if i take MSRP + taxes=$39,074
subtract the residual value of $22,381, i come up with $16,693 that i'm financing over 39 mo's in this case.
so enter in finance calc:
N=39
interest rate=4.2 (.00175 x 2400)
Present Value= $16,693
compute payment= $458.65
but the lease calculator has the same setup giving me 481.90?
what am i missing guys? besides my brain? long day i guess.
thx in advance.... :confuse:
I found the following link useful in putting together my 'calculator'. I created a formula in Microsoft Excel that does the lease calculation. Hopefully it can help you figure how you want to build a calculation you can use as well.
http://ridewithg.whitecarrot.com/index.php/the-lease-formula/
-S
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