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See the following link
http://ridewithg.whitecarrot.com/index.php/2008/05/may-2008-lease-rate-for-08-in- finiti-g35g37/
Infiniti NA is offering 1.9% financing for 36 months/ 3.9% for 60 mos!!!!!!!!!!!!
Where do you get your prices from? a 6 year old vehicle for 20k? You can ask, but you will never get a buyer. You will be lucky if you get $12k-$14k. If you are using Kelly Blue Book the prices that are reflected there are not accurate market values. Dealers use NADA which is a better indicator of market value and auction value of vehicles. I just ran an Edmunds valuation report on a 2003 G35 with most of the options available at the time without navigation, and the trade in value is under $13,000 with a private party sale of $14,000. That's a 5 year old vehicle.
I'm not sure if these are the accurate lease and residual rates. Dwynne had posted rates earlier in the month, and his numbers were different than those posted in the link you provided. I'm inclined to believe that those rates posted by him are accurate because i confirmed the rates on the G35X with a couple dealers.
G35 Journey:
24-69%-.00126
36-59%-.00150
39-58%-.00173
G35 6MT:
24-68%-.00126
36-58%-.00150
39-57%-.00173
G35 AWD:
24-70%-.00131
36-60%-.00150
39-59%-.00172
G37 Journey:
24-71%-.00184
36-61%-.00192
39-60%-.00190
G37 6MT
24-73%-.00184
36-62%-.00192
39-61%-.00190
It's hard to figure out know without knowing the invoice price. (if it was old pricing or new pricing).
But it looks like your money factors are off.
http://ridewithg.whitecarrot.com/index.php/2008/05/may-2008-lease-rate-for-08-in- finiti-g35g37/
According to the link above your MF should be like those below and if they are no then the dealer must have marked them up.
2008 Infiniti G35 X Sedan
24 Month/12k miles/yr – Residual 71% of MSRP – .00131 Base Rate
36 Month/12k miles/yr – Residual 61% of MSRP – .00150 Base Rate
Of course take what i say with a grain of salt as I just go into this forum 2 weeks ago and will be leasing for the first time shortly.
Maybe I missed something..... but are these rates not he same as the ones on the page I linked to? I've looked at them again and they look the same to me.
Unless I'm having a bad day the only difference I see are for the residuals which is expected as Dwynne's numbers are for 15k and the other were for 12k.
I can edit the previous post easy enough to point to Dwynne's posted rates though.
I'm not sure $4-6k is accurate, but if you look into the G35 owners manual there are certain mileage thresholds that require maintenace. If you think you can go 72,000 miles and not spend at least $1,500 in maintenance costs, i don't think you are taking good care of your car.
When you take the real resale value of $12-$13k of the vehicle and add in the added $1,500 in expenses and then add the time value of $40,000 over 6 years, i can guarantee that your true cost per mile will exceed that of leasing.
The real scenario should look something like this. Purchase price 40,000...Resale of vehicle after 6 years with 72,000 miles $13,000. Added Maintenance Over 6 years...$1,500. Actual Cost per mile over 6 years. $.40 per mile. Time value of $40,000 over 6 years at 5% per annum over $6,382. True cost of ownership in cost per mile $.484 cents per mile.
Regarding the cost of maintenance, I used what Edmunds has on the True Cost To Own section.
Regarding insurance, you should look into that. My insurance agent told me that the cars are MUCH safer today then even 3-4 years ago. It is not the fact that a 2003 car would only cost 15k to replace vs. a 2008 at $28k, but if someone is disabled you are looking at a Million $'s regardless of the cost to replace the car. The fact that the 2008 has a significantly less chance of a serious injury, insurance premium is lower. Not sure if this is the case with the G35, but it was with my recent purchase.
I would also disagree with your comment regarding the value of the vehicle being fixed to the lessor/lien holder. The insurance company calculates the value of the vehicle when/if a complete loss occurs. If the value of the car is less then the amount you owe on a purchase, you, as the buyer, must pay the difference. In an IFS lease you are covered by GAP insurance. You can of course purchase GAP insurance if you purchase a car, but if you put 50% down on a car and it gets stolen on the 2nd day, then you are out about 10% as your insurance will pay you a depreciated value. If you leased a car and on the 2nd day it is stolen you are out your up front costs (which is why I put a big fat nothing down on mine). Another cost that you should consider when purchasing.
Yes, it is still cheaper to buy then lease, but the gap is narrowing.
This is exactly what my insurance carrier told me as well. I was surprised to learn that when i switched my wifes car from a 2004TL to a newer 2008 vehicle the rate did not go up at all.
If Edmunds True to Own Costs claim the average maintenance expenditure to operate a car over 6 years is $6K, as a former Literature Professor in College used to exclaim "They [Edmunds] are off their Rocker"!!! Perhaps those costs include gasoline and insurances.
As a trial lawyer who handles a significant portion of bodily injury and property damage claims I can tell you that you are gravely mistaken about how insurance claims benefits are paid out and how premiums are assessed.
When a car is financed, in other words, a security interest has been recorded with the local Sec. of State insurance company's will only issue policies which include Gap coverage. Otherwise the lien holder will put in own GAP coverage in effect at the buyers expense. Lessee's must provide the same coverage for the leased car.
Third party injury claims are paid under the third party liability provision of the auto policy. Liability is assessed against an insured based on a determination of breach of duty of care to another and injury resulting form said breach of duty. Age of a vehicle has no direct correlation to a finding of liability, unless the owner, operator of the vehicle was not properly maintained and the lack of proper maintenance vehicle proximately resulted in the injury. For that matter the operator of a 6 month old car, who has modified, neglected or abused his newer car to the point where it proximately resulted in property damage or injury to another could be held liable.
Whether a car is new or old, whether the car is owned or leased would normally make zero difference as to a liability determination. ZERO. Also the amount of benefits paid under a third party liability claim generally have no bearing on subsequent underwriting changes to the driver's premiums. Benefits will be paid up to the policy limits based on damages. If a motorist is determined to be liable for a financial sum in excess of their liability limits, any supplemental liability insurance they carry, such as homeowner's premise liability or an umbrella liability policy could satisfy the overage. Otherwise a judgment can be entered against the liable party, whereby bank accounts can be levied, real property can be liened and foreclosed upon, and wages can be garnished to satisfy the deficiency in insurance coverage.
Factors considered in underwriting liability portions of auto insurance policies are based on the insured driver's factors:
1) Age (younger drivers lack experience and take more risks)
2) Use of vehicle
3) Geographic area of vehicle registration
4) Whether you own or rent your dwelling
4) Sex and Marital Status
5) Credit history
4) History of being found liable for previous collisions.
5) Traffic law and criminal law violations
Again, with age of the vehicle collision/ comprehensive tend to drive down as a function of depreciation.
When I bought my G35 in 2003, I paid $900/ year for full State Farm coverage with $250 ded. $300K/ $300K L/U/U motorist coverage, with rental coverage. Five and a half years later I'm paying $710 per year.
The only reason you would need to calculate the finance rate as a function of 72 mos. is if you could not afford to pay off the car in 36 or 48 mos. Car loans in Illinois have no prepayment penalty.
In the example I gave above where my Dad bought his 5 series new in 1995, even with the cost of three sets of tires, a new radiator and the re-built transmission his ownership cost ($40K) over 120K miles hover around $0.30 per mile. If he had leased a new 5 series every 36 months the lease payments would have cost him over $86,000. That is $46,000 in his pocket. With that savings he will be able to buy a new 530i cash in full.
1) Risk category of car (Sporty cars with more power will be considered a higher risk
than less powerful cars as insurers feel they promote aggressive driving.)
KBB private party retail on a 2003 G35 coupe with the mileage my car has is $17,200.
My car is in pristine condition guys.
Because I drive it gently. Unlike 90% of the contributors on the various G35 forums who track their cars, perform mods, drive aggressively, change tires and brakes every 20K and perform Mobil 1 synthetic oil service to protect the car.
My tires lasted to nearly 40K miles, and brakes were replaced at 45K.
II have spent a total of $1000 in maintenance (tires and brakes) other than oil changes every 5.5.K. I follow Schedule II which is what my dealership recommends based on the type of driving I do.
Again when I sold my 4.5 year old E36 M3 with 45K miles I sold for 20% above KBB retail.
You fail to state the obvious. Succintly, that the cost of driving a 1995 vehicle will obviously be significantly less than a vehicle 6-8 years younger. If you are ok driving a vehicle that long that is fine, but some of us prefer to drive a new vehicle every 24 to 36 months, and there is an inherent cost involved in doing so that your analysis fails to incorporate into the equation.
Furthermore, if you chose to lease a vehicle that is 3-4 years old, which is now actually done and referred to as a second hand lease, the cost of such lease would be a fraction of the cost of a new vehicle. Your analysis fails to discount this as well. So if comparing apples to apples, let's consider the reduction of a lease expense vs. the loss of equity in an owned vehicle and run from there.
I can go on and on, but its a mute point. Those who want to own, will always find an argument that owning is cheaper than leasing, but having done both on numerous occassions, i would say it's a toss up, and if you like driving a car for 10 years, then absolutely go ahead and purchase. I, for one enjoy the smell of a new car every 3 years and lean towards leasing when the numbers make sense.
I really don't care to read the opinion of someone about why THEY never will lease or how dumb it is to do. I love leasing and someone else is not going to change my opinion about it.
There is a "Leasing vs. Purchasing" forum here at this link where folks that don't like leases can go an argue about it.
This forum should be for folks who have G lease questions - money factors, bank fees, residuals, payments, deals, etc. If you want to argue about leasing, there is a forum for that - and this is not it.
Thanks,
Dennis
Exactly right. Yes there is an absolute value to leasing if you want to be in and out of a car every 24 to 36 months.
It's the same as buying an expensive pair of shoes which will be worn once. A new TV every couple of years. New furniture and upholstery for a home every A new camera every year. A new wristwatch every year. The cost as a function of utility will always be significantly less than cost as a function of style, fads, trend.
If it's a new car smell you need every 24 months, I shower daily, don't eat or drink in my car, and annually hand scrub the interior with Murphy's Oil soap in warm water. So my 6 year old G35 smells pretty darn new.
I also have a call into my local Infiniti dealership on the issue of Multiple Security Deposits and what risks are associated with this deposit. I'm hoping to hear back shortly.
Thanks.
I received a quote on a lease from a Long Island Infiniti dealer as follows:
G35X w/Sport, Navigation, Technology and Premium packages.
MSRP 42165
Sell Price: 41300
2900 down, $485/month for 39 months
This is a first offer from the dealer I think that since the buy price is still quite a bit over invoice, that there is still room for further negotiation.
Opinions appreciated.
That car is fully loaded! It will be hard for them to sell a $41K+ G35. You should be able to get that for less than $500 over invoice.
Oh yea, study up on leases before you do one. Putting money down on a lease is a “BAD” idea in terms of risk(If you crash the car or trade the lease you loose your entire deposit). Here is the deal I got on an 08 G35 Journey with Premium, Sport, Navi, and Tech packages. Please note that I rolled $920 worth of payments from my previous car into this lease. That also is a “bad” idea but I am impatient and was willing to pay the extra $s to get the car this month.
36 month lease with 12K miles per year.
.0015 Money Factor
60% residual
Selling Price = $900($500 over inv + $400 doc fees) over invoice before you add in the $920 in previous payments
Absolutely nothing down. First months payment, sign, and drive.
$532 per month(This would have been in the low $500’s if I hadn’t rolled the other payments in).
My deal actually isn’t that great because I paid $900 over invoice. If you are patient and you shop around you can get $500 or less over invoice.
In the past, the MF was the same as the MF for the journey coupe and the residual was 1% higher (at 36 months) than the journey.
You can always ask the dealer what the rate is on the journey to see if they are marking up the rate of not, then ask for the base coupe rate.
I would call IFS directly and ask about the MSDs. Most dealers seem to either not know or not understand MSDs.
Dennis
The reason i was asking for the base rate for the G37 is not because i was planning on getting it without options. I noticed from numbers posted from someone else that the residual was 73% on it versus 71% for the Journey. by adding the Premium package to the base it's still 2% lower than the Journey, which doesn't offer much more from my initial impressioin.
G35X with Premium, Nav, Sport. for 24 Mths and 15K/Yr.
MSRP: $40,575
Sell Price: $37,500
MF: .00131
Residual: 70%
Total out of pocket: $1,059.40 (Including 1st Month Pmt.)
Monthly Payment: $487.91 all inclusive
Location: CT
Funny enough, trying to match these numbers with info from Edmunds or Cardirect is nearly impossible due to the variances in package prices, latest MSRP price increases, destination fees, etc... Doesn't make it any easier for us consumers...still very helpful as a guideline though.
I wanted to let you guys know, I got my Ivory Pearl G37 Base over the weekend!
Even without the "bells and whistles" the car IS sweet.
Here's the breakdown:
MSRP: 35,665 (this is the new delivery, so it has the $765 destination)
Sale: 32,890
Invoice: 32,858
MF: .00190
Residual: 63%
Term: 39mo/12k year
Monthly (with 8.25% tax): $404.90
Drive-Off: $595 bank fee + $45 doc fee + $280 dmv + $8.50 tire + $404.90 1st payment...total of: $1333.40
Had I gone with a 39/10k lease, I would have been able to keep it under $400 a month after tax. If you don't need the "goodies", the base has a higher residual value and will save you some cash, about $40-$50 a month.
I also managed to get 2 free oil changes from the deal, so that helped drive down the costs a bit more.
IFS offers GAP coverage and no disposition fees (in case you didn't know).
All in all, I'm loving it.
What *I* do is normally just pay the first month and signing and roll the other stuff (bank fee, taxes, etc) into the lease. It does depend on the lease rate, though. If I have a silly low rate (0.31% on my wife's Pilot) then I roll it all in. If the rate was more real-world, then I might still roll in but I may pay more at closing.
The issue I have with a true "sign and drive" is that there is no real formula for figuring those out. So while I can check to the penny if any normal deal I am looking at, a SnD deal never comes out to what I think is the right payment. There is also the issue of double taxes. In most states they tax the payment, so say your lease is $400 a month for 36 months and your tax is 5%, your payment is then $420 a month for 36 months. If you do SnD they roll the $420 back into the cap cost, charge you interest on it, and come up with a new base payment - THEN add 5% tax on top of the payment. True, it is only a few dollars but I don't like to sign anything when I can't make the numbers work out. What they should do is roll back in the base payment and re-figure it all, but I have never seen one that does that.
So pay the first payment at least at signing, it keeps the numbers verifiable
Dennis
Now that this forum has armed me with so much knowledge, what is the typical # of dealers that you guys contact before you go full force into working out the details?
Do you send mass e-mails to each dealer and specifically try to negotiate a deal with each dealer? When do you decide to cross off a dealer from your list?
I'd like to hear the process in which the e-mail process works.
Thanks for your responses in advance.
Now, let's stick to Infiniti G35/G37 leasing questions...
regards,
kyfdx
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Even without the "bells and whistles" the car IS sweet.
Here's the breakdown:
MSRP: 35,665 (this is the new delivery, so it has the $765 destination)
Sale: 32,890
Invoice: 32,858
MF: .00190
Residual: 63%
Term: 39mo/12k year
Monthly (with 8.25% tax): $404.90
Drive-Off: $595 bank fee + $45 doc fee + $280 dmv + $8.50 tire + $404.90 1st payment...total of: $1333.40
A G37 for $400 a month when there are people driving Toyota Camry's for that kind of money....you know that's a great deal...good job!!!
There are two "holiday" sales events coming up: Memorial Day and July 4. I'm holding off on any decision until I see what specials there may be especially Memorial Day ... ending a slow month. Here in AZ the snowbirds are gone, the dog days of summer are here, and business typically falls into the doldrums. :shades: Bart
Anyway, sales overall are down. At my dealer over the weekend, sales folks were just standing around or chit chatting. I even caught one sales guy napping on his chair.
I believe I was their 2nd sale of the day, that was at around 7-8pm too.
2008 journey w/sport and premium. splash, net and mats (black/stone int)
numbers:
msrp=37,935
cap costs=35,328 + 1,148 tax + 595 acq fee
resid=22,381(59%)
15,000miles
36/mo
MF=.00223 (this is the deal killer. the dealer told me with 673 fico that i'd get tier 1 and if IFS didn't come back with tier 1, he'd get it bought, of course after he pulled my credit he came back claiming tier 2. dennis, yes sir i did request to see the approval from IFS AS WELL as a copy of my credit report to be faxed to me. i have neither still today.)
$750 due at signing
payment $539/mo
I accepted the $35,328 as invoice is stated at 34,655, BUT i will not accept .00223. the difference between .00223 and .0015 is:
$539/mo vs. $488/mo and over $1,800 over the life of the lease. so i declined. not to mention the dealer in dallas pulled credit "FRIDAY" afternoon and promised to get back to me that day, yet didn't until MONDAY. wow..........anyway that's where i sit.
39 month IFS lease
Payment $452 before tax
$1300 at signing
64% residual
It seems like a good deal... any opinions?
If you stick with the rule of thumb on the board of $500 over invoice being an "ok" deal (some are lower, others are higher) then you are looking at a payment of $446 + tax with your 1st month payment, $595 acq fee and your license/registration fee due at signing.
If your license/title fees are around $225-250 then it looks like the money due at signing is the 1st payment, acq fee and the license/reg fees. If this is the case then you are about $6 a month in payment over the invoice +$500 deal.
If the MSRP matches what I listed above, I would offer them the $452 a month but only pay $1,000 at signing, this puts you at about $450 over invoice.
I did the calculation based on 15k miles per year, if you drop down to 12k you save $10 a month and at 10k per year the payment is $427+tax. This is assuming the standard residual and money factors posted here earlier.
same car - no splash guards
12,000 miles a year
$437 month before taxes
$1000 down
I can't believe how far apart dealers can be. Would this be the better deal? Or does it not seem possible?
MSRP $39925
Cap Cost $36286.12
Rolled in bank fee and dealer fee $1290.00
Gross Cap Cost: $37576.12
Residual: 59% Money Factor: .0015
Monthly payment for 12k/39 mos $465.26
Amount due at Signing $693.67 (1st month, tax, regis & FL fee)
I think its a good deal, but here is my question. I wanted a 12K/36 month lease and they would not do it. The salesman came back and said they would give me the car for the $36,200.00 (approx) I had asked for but it must be a 39 month lease. Does anyone know why?
Also, I too did not quite make the Tier 1 cut (700). My score was 684. The Tier two financing increased the payment by more than $57.00. I informed the finance guy it was a deal breaker and eventually he left the room talked to the General Manager. The General Manager agreed to "call in a favor" with IFS and give me the Tier One financing rate. If you are close to 700 hold out for the Tier 1, Tier 2 is ridiculous.
Thanks again, could not have done it without you guys!
My dealer told me that he has seen some guys come in that made a quarter of a mil and couldn't get financed on a $35K G35 after their divorce! Man the "woman" can always get you down! Thankfully, my wife said "Just buy the damn car, it is less than my new bicycle anyway"! Just kidding about the bike, well not really!
Dealer is offering 39mo lease, 12k miles, and inception down of $1682 (see below). Monthly rate was $450. This was too high for me and I wanted to bring the monthly down. I told the dealer I wanted out of pocket to be $2500 max and $400 a month. With $2500 down (an additional 817.92 on top of the incept costs below), the dealer came down to $420. Said that was the closest they could get. Is this a good deal?
1st payment 450.00
tax 55.58
bank fees 595.00
motor vehicle/regis 375.00
dock fee 199.00
tire fee 7.50
thanks
by the way, my deal is g35x with NAV and premium package
$2600 due at signing $369 a month 24 months 10k miles...good deal?
G37, Premium, Navigation Package $41,425, dealer selling for $38,227. The payment with $2,000 at signing is $439.36 plus tax ($473.51).
?
i think they can be a bit more aggressive..