$40K purchase price financing - $20K (retail value after 6 years)/ 72K miles = $0.27 Infiniti NA is offering 1.9% financing for 36 months/ 3.9% for 60 mos!!!!!!!!!!!!
Where do you get your prices from? a 6 year old vehicle for 20k? You can ask, but you will never get a buyer. You will be lucky if you get $12k-$14k. If you are using Kelly Blue Book the prices that are reflected there are not accurate market values. Dealers use NADA which is a better indicator of market value and auction value of vehicles. I just ran an Edmunds valuation report on a 2003 G35 with most of the options available at the time without navigation, and the trade in value is under $13,000 with a private party sale of $14,000. That's a 5 year old vehicle.
I'm not sure if these are the accurate lease and residual rates. Dwynne had posted rates earlier in the month, and his numbers were different than those posted in the link you provided. I'm inclined to believe that those rates posted by him are accurate because i confirmed the rates on the G35X with a couple dealers.
According to the link above your MF should be like those below and if they are no then the dealer must have marked them up.
2008 Infiniti G35 X Sedan 24 Month/12k miles/yr – Residual 71% of MSRP – .00131 Base Rate 36 Month/12k miles/yr – Residual 61% of MSRP – .00150 Base Rate
Of course take what i say with a grain of salt as I just go into this forum 2 weeks ago and will be leasing for the first time shortly.
Maybe I missed something..... but are these rates not he same as the ones on the page I linked to? I've looked at them again and they look the same to me.
Unless I'm having a bad day the only difference I see are for the residuals which is expected as Dwynne's numbers are for 15k and the other were for 12k.
I can edit the previous post easy enough to point to Dwynne's posted rates though.
Who spends $4-6K in maintenance on a car they bought new with the Infiniti warranty?
I'm not sure $4-6k is accurate, but if you look into the G35 owners manual there are certain mileage thresholds that require maintenace. If you think you can go 72,000 miles and not spend at least $1,500 in maintenance costs, i don't think you are taking good care of your car.
When you take the real resale value of $12-$13k of the vehicle and add in the added $1,500 in expenses and then add the time value of $40,000 over 6 years, i can guarantee that your true cost per mile will exceed that of leasing.
The real scenario should look something like this. Purchase price 40,000...Resale of vehicle after 6 years with 72,000 miles $13,000. Added Maintenance Over 6 years...$1,500. Actual Cost per mile over 6 years. $.40 per mile. Time value of $40,000 over 6 years at 5% per annum over $6,382. True cost of ownership in cost per mile $.484 cents per mile.
It does seem like the difference is that the rates you posted are for 12k mileage allowance per year and Dwynne's is for 15k mileage per year. There is a residual credit of 1% for less miles.
Athens, regarding the interest rate. I used financing the loan for 72 months because it is easier to calculate then trying to figure out how you could otherwise invest the 70% you put down on your car and what rate of return you would get. Their is either a cost of borrowing the money, or loss of interest income if you pay off the car earlier then the 72 months. This is why I used just a 4% interest rate, like I said, you will NOT likely find that interest rate for 72 months, you can for 60, not 72. You can expect to earn a 4% rate of return should you invest the money.
Regarding the cost of maintenance, I used what Edmunds has on the True Cost To Own section.
Regarding insurance, you should look into that. My insurance agent told me that the cars are MUCH safer today then even 3-4 years ago. It is not the fact that a 2003 car would only cost 15k to replace vs. a 2008 at $28k, but if someone is disabled you are looking at a Million $'s regardless of the cost to replace the car. The fact that the 2008 has a significantly less chance of a serious injury, insurance premium is lower. Not sure if this is the case with the G35, but it was with my recent purchase.
I would also disagree with your comment regarding the value of the vehicle being fixed to the lessor/lien holder. The insurance company calculates the value of the vehicle when/if a complete loss occurs. If the value of the car is less then the amount you owe on a purchase, you, as the buyer, must pay the difference. In an IFS lease you are covered by GAP insurance. You can of course purchase GAP insurance if you purchase a car, but if you put 50% down on a car and it gets stolen on the 2nd day, then you are out about 10% as your insurance will pay you a depreciated value. If you leased a car and on the 2nd day it is stolen you are out your up front costs (which is why I put a big fat nothing down on mine). Another cost that you should consider when purchasing.
Yes, it is still cheaper to buy then lease, but the gap is narrowing.
My insurance agent told me that the cars are MUCH safer today then even 3-4 years ago. It is not the fact that a 2003 car would only cost 15k to replace vs. a 2008 at $28k, but if someone is disabled you are looking at a Million $'s regardless of the cost to replace the car. The fact that the 2008 has a significantly less chance of a serious injury, insurance premium is lower
This is exactly what my insurance carrier told me as well. I was surprised to learn that when i switched my wifes car from a 2004TL to a newer 2008 vehicle the rate did not go up at all.
If Edmunds True to Own Costs claim the average maintenance expenditure to operate a car over 6 years is $6K, as a former Literature Professor in College used to exclaim "They [Edmunds] are off their Rocker"!!! Perhaps those costs include gasoline and insurances.
As a trial lawyer who handles a significant portion of bodily injury and property damage claims I can tell you that you are gravely mistaken about how insurance claims benefits are paid out and how premiums are assessed.
When a car is financed, in other words, a security interest has been recorded with the local Sec. of State insurance company's will only issue policies which include Gap coverage. Otherwise the lien holder will put in own GAP coverage in effect at the buyers expense. Lessee's must provide the same coverage for the leased car.
Third party injury claims are paid under the third party liability provision of the auto policy. Liability is assessed against an insured based on a determination of breach of duty of care to another and injury resulting form said breach of duty. Age of a vehicle has no direct correlation to a finding of liability, unless the owner, operator of the vehicle was not properly maintained and the lack of proper maintenance vehicle proximately resulted in the injury. For that matter the operator of a 6 month old car, who has modified, neglected or abused his newer car to the point where it proximately resulted in property damage or injury to another could be held liable.
Whether a car is new or old, whether the car is owned or leased would normally make zero difference as to a liability determination. ZERO. Also the amount of benefits paid under a third party liability claim generally have no bearing on subsequent underwriting changes to the driver's premiums. Benefits will be paid up to the policy limits based on damages. If a motorist is determined to be liable for a financial sum in excess of their liability limits, any supplemental liability insurance they carry, such as homeowner's premise liability or an umbrella liability policy could satisfy the overage. Otherwise a judgment can be entered against the liable party, whereby bank accounts can be levied, real property can be liened and foreclosed upon, and wages can be garnished to satisfy the deficiency in insurance coverage.
Factors considered in underwriting liability portions of auto insurance policies are based on the insured driver's factors:
1) Age (younger drivers lack experience and take more risks)
2) Use of vehicle
3) Geographic area of vehicle registration
4) Whether you own or rent your dwelling
4) Sex and Marital Status
5) Credit history
4) History of being found liable for previous collisions.
5) Traffic law and criminal law violations
Again, with age of the vehicle collision/ comprehensive tend to drive down as a function of depreciation.
When I bought my G35 in 2003, I paid $900/ year for full State Farm coverage with $250 ded. $300K/ $300K L/U/U motorist coverage, with rental coverage. Five and a half years later I'm paying $710 per year.
The only reason you would need to calculate the finance rate as a function of 72 mos. is if you could not afford to pay off the car in 36 or 48 mos. Car loans in Illinois have no prepayment penalty.
In the example I gave above where my Dad bought his 5 series new in 1995, even with the cost of three sets of tires, a new radiator and the re-built transmission his ownership cost ($40K) over 120K miles hover around $0.30 per mile. If he had leased a new 5 series every 36 months the lease payments would have cost him over $86,000. That is $46,000 in his pocket. With that savings he will be able to buy a new 530i cash in full.
Oh forgot big factor on liability risk underwriting:
1) Risk category of car (Sporty cars with more power will be considered a higher risk than less powerful cars as insurers feel they promote aggressive driving.)
KBB private party retail on a 2003 G35 coupe with the mileage my car has is $17,200.
My car is in pristine condition guys.
Because I drive it gently. Unlike 90% of the contributors on the various G35 forums who track their cars, perform mods, drive aggressively, change tires and brakes every 20K and perform Mobil 1 synthetic oil service to protect the car.
My tires lasted to nearly 40K miles, and brakes were replaced at 45K.
II have spent a total of $1000 in maintenance (tires and brakes) other than oil changes every 5.5.K. I follow Schedule II which is what my dealership recommends based on the type of driving I do.
Again when I sold my 4.5 year old E36 M3 with 45K miles I sold for 20% above KBB retail.
Counselor, i'm not sure what the liability aspect of a claim has to do with dollars and cents of a lease, but there several flaws in your valuation analysis of purchasing versus leasing.
You fail to state the obvious. Succintly, that the cost of driving a 1995 vehicle will obviously be significantly less than a vehicle 6-8 years younger. If you are ok driving a vehicle that long that is fine, but some of us prefer to drive a new vehicle every 24 to 36 months, and there is an inherent cost involved in doing so that your analysis fails to incorporate into the equation.
Furthermore, if you chose to lease a vehicle that is 3-4 years old, which is now actually done and referred to as a second hand lease, the cost of such lease would be a fraction of the cost of a new vehicle. Your analysis fails to discount this as well. So if comparing apples to apples, let's consider the reduction of a lease expense vs. the loss of equity in an owned vehicle and run from there.
I can go on and on, but its a mute point. Those who want to own, will always find an argument that owning is cheaper than leasing, but having done both on numerous occassions, i would say it's a toss up, and if you like driving a car for 10 years, then absolutely go ahead and purchase. I, for one enjoy the smell of a new car every 3 years and lean towards leasing when the numbers make sense.
I really don't care to read the opinion of someone about why THEY never will lease or how dumb it is to do. I love leasing and someone else is not going to change my opinion about it.
There is a "Leasing vs. Purchasing" forum here at this link where folks that don't like leases can go an argue about it.
This forum should be for folks who have G lease questions - money factors, bank fees, residuals, payments, deals, etc. If you want to argue about leasing, there is a forum for that - and this is not it.
Exactly right. Yes there is an absolute value to leasing if you want to be in and out of a car every 24 to 36 months.
It's the same as buying an expensive pair of shoes which will be worn once. A new TV every couple of years. New furniture and upholstery for a home every A new camera every year. A new wristwatch every year. The cost as a function of utility will always be significantly less than cost as a function of style, fads, trend.
If it's a new car smell you need every 24 months, I shower daily, don't eat or drink in my car, and annually hand scrub the interior with Murphy's Oil soap in warm water. So my 6 year old G35 smells pretty darn new.
Dwynne sorry for the rant...Do you know what the money factor and residual on the base G37 is ? The rates you posted earlier in the month only covered the G37 Journey and the 6MT. I also did not see this option on CarsDirect.com and wondering if this option even exists.
I also have a call into my local Infiniti dealership on the issue of Multiple Security Deposits and what risks are associated with this deposit. I'm hoping to hear back shortly.
I received a quote on a lease from a Long Island Infiniti dealer as follows:
G35X w/Sport, Navigation, Technology and Premium packages.
MSRP 42165 Sell Price: 41300
2900 down, $485/month for 39 months
This is a first offer from the dealer I think that since the buy price is still quite a bit over invoice, that there is still room for further negotiation.
That car is fully loaded! It will be hard for them to sell a $41K+ G35. You should be able to get that for less than $500 over invoice.
Oh yea, study up on leases before you do one. Putting money down on a lease is a “BAD” idea in terms of risk(If you crash the car or trade the lease you loose your entire deposit). Here is the deal I got on an 08 G35 Journey with Premium, Sport, Navi, and Tech packages. Please note that I rolled $920 worth of payments from my previous car into this lease. That also is a “bad” idea but I am impatient and was willing to pay the extra $s to get the car this month.
36 month lease with 12K miles per year. .0015 Money Factor 60% residual Selling Price = $900($500 over inv + $400 doc fees) over invoice before you add in the $920 in previous payments Absolutely nothing down. First months payment, sign, and drive. $532 per month(This would have been in the low $500’s if I hadn’t rolled the other payments in).
My deal actually isn’t that great because I paid $900 over invoice. If you are patient and you shop around you can get $500 or less over invoice.
I would not get a base car - you can't get any options on it. No moonroof, no premium pack, nothing. I didn't post the numbers because there is about no demand for them and I didn't get them.
In the past, the MF was the same as the MF for the journey coupe and the residual was 1% higher (at 36 months) than the journey.
You can always ask the dealer what the rate is on the journey to see if they are marking up the rate of not, then ask for the base coupe rate.
I would call IFS directly and ask about the MSDs. Most dealers seem to either not know or not understand MSDs.
The reason i was asking for the base rate for the G37 is not because i was planning on getting it without options. I noticed from numbers posted from someone else that the residual was 73% on it versus 71% for the Journey. by adding the Premium package to the base it's still 2% lower than the Journey, which doesn't offer much more from my initial impressioin.
Good question. If you do not pay the 1st month payment, your payments will go up because it will be rolled into the cap cost. Like anything we "rent" we have to pay first before we use it. What I do is pay all the fee upfront and 1st month payment. A lot of dealers, when offering $0 drive-offs, they use manufacturer's rebates to cover for the drive-off and rolling any remainder costs into the cap cost.
Being offered the following which seems to be pretty good based on the numbers I am seeing from this forum. I'd love to get some further feedback if anyone feels like sharing their opinion.
G35X with Premium, Nav, Sport. for 24 Mths and 15K/Yr. MSRP: $40,575 Sell Price: $37,500 MF: .00131 Residual: 70% Total out of pocket: $1,059.40 (Including 1st Month Pmt.) Monthly Payment: $487.91 all inclusive Location: CT
Funny enough, trying to match these numbers with info from Edmunds or Cardirect is nearly impossible due to the variances in package prices, latest MSRP price increases, destination fees, etc... Doesn't make it any easier for us consumers...still very helpful as a guideline though.
I wanted to let you guys know, I got my Ivory Pearl G37 Base over the weekend! Even without the "bells and whistles" the car IS sweet.
Here's the breakdown:
MSRP: 35,665 (this is the new delivery, so it has the $765 destination) Sale: 32,890 Invoice: 32,858 MF: .00190 Residual: 63% Term: 39mo/12k year Monthly (with 8.25% tax): $404.90 Drive-Off: $595 bank fee + $45 doc fee + $280 dmv + $8.50 tire + $404.90 1st payment...total of: $1333.40
Had I gone with a 39/10k lease, I would have been able to keep it under $400 a month after tax. If you don't need the "goodies", the base has a higher residual value and will save you some cash, about $40-$50 a month.
I also managed to get 2 free oil changes from the deal, so that helped drive down the costs a bit more.
IFS offers GAP coverage and no disposition fees (in case you didn't know).
Correct, financing means payments are not due until interest accrues - you buy today and your first payment is in 1 month. Renting and leasing you pay before you use, so your first payment is due at signing.
What *I* do is normally just pay the first month and signing and roll the other stuff (bank fee, taxes, etc) into the lease. It does depend on the lease rate, though. If I have a silly low rate (0.31% on my wife's Pilot) then I roll it all in. If the rate was more real-world, then I might still roll in but I may pay more at closing.
The issue I have with a true "sign and drive" is that there is no real formula for figuring those out. So while I can check to the penny if any normal deal I am looking at, a SnD deal never comes out to what I think is the right payment. There is also the issue of double taxes. In most states they tax the payment, so say your lease is $400 a month for 36 months and your tax is 5%, your payment is then $420 a month for 36 months. If you do SnD they roll the $420 back into the cap cost, charge you interest on it, and come up with a new base payment - THEN add 5% tax on top of the payment. True, it is only a few dollars but I don't like to sign anything when I can't make the numbers work out. What they should do is roll back in the base payment and re-figure it all, but I have never seen one that does that.
So pay the first payment at least at signing, it keeps the numbers verifiable .
This forum, believe it or not, opened my eyes to doing all the negotiating over e-mail. I'm willing to travel 100+ miles to get a very good deal and because I'm in Illinois, I need to get that leverage due to the "extra" state tax that lessees in Illinois have to pay.
Now that this forum has armed me with so much knowledge, what is the typical # of dealers that you guys contact before you go full force into working out the details?
Do you send mass e-mails to each dealer and specifically try to negotiate a deal with each dealer? When do you decide to cross off a dealer from your list? I'd like to hear the process in which the e-mail process works.
Thanks brodway, took my sweet time (about 2 months) but I pulled the trigger finally. Every morning, I look forward to driving it...too bad my commute is only 10-15 minutes. Not nearly long enough to get my fix. haha.
The dealer called me today, ostensibly as a follow-up to see if I had any questions, but in reality to see what he could do to close the deal. He touted the offer he gave me and the discount off list, and I let him know I was aware of what invoice was on the car I was interested in and that I knew what a hefty profit he would be making on a lease structured around that price. Then the offers started getting more aggressive - "What if I could do invoice on the car? You'd be looking at about $430-440" Well, that's less than what I'm currently paying on my Z-71 Tahoe, which still has a few months to go. I'm not that impatient that I'd willingly roll the remaining Tahoe payments into an Infiniti lease. He did also offer to buy out the remaining Tahoe payments of 5X$479, keeping his original lease offer at $485/month on the fully loaded G35X. I guess that G35X's aren't flying out the door at this particular Infiniti dealer. That, or end of month approaching and they're looking to deal. The $2900 up front cost would still be there, though that might be negotiable as well, seeing as how far down they went on the cost of the car. Interesting times...
... or end of month approaching and they're looking to deal.
There are two "holiday" sales events coming up: Memorial Day and July 4. I'm holding off on any decision until I see what specials there may be especially Memorial Day ... ending a slow month. Here in AZ the snowbirds are gone, the dog days of summer are here, and business typically falls into the doldrums. :shades: Bart
With 5 payments remaining, I would wait til next month. The current rates are supposed to last til June 30th. Specially the 39mo leases (if you plan on getting one of those). There isn't a way they will "pay" for your least 5 payments. Love how they phrase that. "we'll pay for your last payments on your current lease"....they always forget to say "...but we'll roll that cost into your new ride". Anyway, sales overall are down. At my dealer over the weekend, sales folks were just standing around or chit chatting. I even caught one sales guy napping on his chair. I believe I was their 2nd sale of the day, that was at around 7-8pm too.
Car: 2008 journey w/sport and premium. splash, net and mats (black/stone int)
numbers: msrp=37,935 cap costs=35,328 + 1,148 tax + 595 acq fee resid=22,381(59%) 15,000miles 36/mo MF=.00223 (this is the deal killer. the dealer told me with 673 fico that i'd get tier 1 and if IFS didn't come back with tier 1, he'd get it bought, of course after he pulled my credit he came back claiming tier 2. dennis, yes sir i did request to see the approval from IFS AS WELL as a copy of my credit report to be faxed to me. i have neither still today.) $750 due at signing payment $539/mo
I accepted the $35,328 as invoice is stated at 34,655, BUT i will not accept .00223. the difference between .00223 and .0015 is: $539/mo vs. $488/mo and over $1,800 over the life of the lease. so i declined. not to mention the dealer in dallas pulled credit "FRIDAY" afternoon and promised to get back to me that day, yet didn't until MONDAY. wow..........anyway that's where i sit.
Yep, I'm not in a rush to terminate the Tahoe lease early unless it was under a GM pull ahead. With gas prices north of $4, I definitely will not be acquiring another Tahoe. Most of the other GM lineup doesn't interest me that much, though I might look at the Saab 93 Aero once the XWD option is available and if there are deals to be had on a lease.
I'm definitely not an expert in leasing, so this may be a moot point. Does the documentation fee differ for leasing as opposed to buying? If it doesn't (and unless anything changed in the last 8 months in IL), the fee is actually a fixed value of $58.48.
Using Edmonds MSRP and Invoice you are looking at $39,665 MSRP and $36,251 invoice. If you stick with the rule of thumb on the board of $500 over invoice being an "ok" deal (some are lower, others are higher) then you are looking at a payment of $446 + tax with your 1st month payment, $595 acq fee and your license/registration fee due at signing.
If your license/title fees are around $225-250 then it looks like the money due at signing is the 1st payment, acq fee and the license/reg fees. If this is the case then you are about $6 a month in payment over the invoice +$500 deal.
If the MSRP matches what I listed above, I would offer them the $452 a month but only pay $1,000 at signing, this puts you at about $450 over invoice.
I did the calculation based on 15k miles per year, if you drop down to 12k you save $10 a month and at 10k per year the payment is $427+tax. This is assuming the standard residual and money factors posted here earlier.
This site has been a valuable tool in the lease negotiation process. I signed a deal tonight for G35 Journey w/ Sport, Nav & Premium (Spoiler, Trunk Matt etc).
MSRP $39925
Cap Cost $36286.12
Rolled in bank fee and dealer fee $1290.00
Gross Cap Cost: $37576.12
Residual: 59% Money Factor: .0015
Monthly payment for 12k/39 mos $465.26
Amount due at Signing $693.67 (1st month, tax, regis & FL fee)
I think its a good deal, but here is my question. I wanted a 12K/36 month lease and they would not do it. The salesman came back and said they would give me the car for the $36,200.00 (approx) I had asked for but it must be a 39 month lease. Does anyone know why?
Also, I too did not quite make the Tier 1 cut (700). My score was 684. The Tier two financing increased the payment by more than $57.00. I informed the finance guy it was a deal breaker and eventually he left the room talked to the General Manager. The General Manager agreed to "call in a favor" with IFS and give me the Tier One financing rate. If you are close to 700 hold out for the Tier 1, Tier 2 is ridiculous.
Thanks again, could not have done it without you guys!
Yea I got an 08 G35 Premium, Sport, Navi, and Tech packages for $532 a month over 36 months with zero down. My credit is in the 800 range so that helps. However, I don't think I would go for that .0022 MF. That is really high. Is there anything you can do to improve your credit?
My dealer told me that he has seen some guys come in that made a quarter of a mil and couldn't get financed on a $35K G35 after their divorce! Man the "woman" can always get you down! Thankfully, my wife said "Just buy the damn car, it is less than my new bicycle anyway"! Just kidding about the bike, well not really!
I am looking to lease a 2008 Infiniti G35x AWD with Premium and Sports Package. Dealer is offering 39mo lease, 12k miles, and inception down of $1682 (see below). Monthly rate was $450. This was too high for me and I wanted to bring the monthly down. I told the dealer I wanted out of pocket to be $2500 max and $400 a month. With $2500 down (an additional 817.92 on top of the incept costs below), the dealer came down to $420. Said that was the closest they could get. Is this a good deal?
1st payment 450.00 tax 55.58 bank fees 595.00 motor vehicle/regis 375.00 dock fee 199.00 tire fee 7.50
$2500 down is a bad idea! If you crash you loose! If you can't afford $480 a month then you probably can't afford a 2008 G unfortunately! You provided a lot of numbers. However, you neglected the important factors. What is the residual, Money Factor, final selling price, and document fees?
That actually sounds like a great deal. My car was a little more but my payment was a lot more(About $70 a month). Now I was impatient and rolled in about a grand of payments from my previous lease. However, your deal sounds like a good one. I would have jumped all over that. Just remember to ride out your entire 39 month lease. I made the mistake of ending mine a bit early and I lost most of my bargaining power.
I'm only putting down an additional 817.00 The remainder of the $2500 is the inception and first month payment. As for the document fees, I was told that is the Bank fee I posted for $595. I dont have the actual final selling price or residual. And I'm not sure what the Money Factor is. I'm assuming the final selling price and residual is important to know to determine if this is a good or bad deal.
Does anyone know what the cost is for tags and DMV fees in New Jersey? Im buying from a NY dealer but registering in NJ. Do i have the option of going to pick up the tags at DMV myself to save $???
thanks
by the way, my deal is g35x with NAV and premium package $2600 due at signing $369 a month 24 months 10k miles...good deal?
I DONT REALLY KNOW HOW U GET THAT NUMBER OUT.($404.90) I RAN lease CALCULATOR. IT CAME OUT $440.81 WITH 7.75%(IL)SALES TAX. I ALSO ASK MY LOCAL DEALER THEY TOLD ME THAT’S IMPOSSIBLE. I JUST WANT TO KNOW HOW YOU CAME OUT WITH THAT NUMBER
Comments
See the following link
http://ridewithg.whitecarrot.com/index.php/2008/05/may-2008-lease-rate-for-08-in- finiti-g35g37/
Infiniti NA is offering 1.9% financing for 36 months/ 3.9% for 60 mos!!!!!!!!!!!!
Where do you get your prices from? a 6 year old vehicle for 20k? You can ask, but you will never get a buyer. You will be lucky if you get $12k-$14k. If you are using Kelly Blue Book the prices that are reflected there are not accurate market values. Dealers use NADA which is a better indicator of market value and auction value of vehicles. I just ran an Edmunds valuation report on a 2003 G35 with most of the options available at the time without navigation, and the trade in value is under $13,000 with a private party sale of $14,000. That's a 5 year old vehicle.
I'm not sure if these are the accurate lease and residual rates. Dwynne had posted rates earlier in the month, and his numbers were different than those posted in the link you provided. I'm inclined to believe that those rates posted by him are accurate because i confirmed the rates on the G35X with a couple dealers.
G35 Journey:
24-69%-.00126
36-59%-.00150
39-58%-.00173
G35 6MT:
24-68%-.00126
36-58%-.00150
39-57%-.00173
G35 AWD:
24-70%-.00131
36-60%-.00150
39-59%-.00172
G37 Journey:
24-71%-.00184
36-61%-.00192
39-60%-.00190
G37 6MT
24-73%-.00184
36-62%-.00192
39-61%-.00190
It's hard to figure out know without knowing the invoice price. (if it was old pricing or new pricing).
But it looks like your money factors are off.
http://ridewithg.whitecarrot.com/index.php/2008/05/may-2008-lease-rate-for-08-in- finiti-g35g37/
According to the link above your MF should be like those below and if they are no then the dealer must have marked them up.
2008 Infiniti G35 X Sedan
24 Month/12k miles/yr – Residual 71% of MSRP – .00131 Base Rate
36 Month/12k miles/yr – Residual 61% of MSRP – .00150 Base Rate
Of course take what i say with a grain of salt as I just go into this forum 2 weeks ago and will be leasing for the first time shortly.
Maybe I missed something..... but are these rates not he same as the ones on the page I linked to? I've looked at them again and they look the same to me.
Unless I'm having a bad day the only difference I see are for the residuals which is expected as Dwynne's numbers are for 15k and the other were for 12k.
I can edit the previous post easy enough to point to Dwynne's posted rates though.
I'm not sure $4-6k is accurate, but if you look into the G35 owners manual there are certain mileage thresholds that require maintenace. If you think you can go 72,000 miles and not spend at least $1,500 in maintenance costs, i don't think you are taking good care of your car.
When you take the real resale value of $12-$13k of the vehicle and add in the added $1,500 in expenses and then add the time value of $40,000 over 6 years, i can guarantee that your true cost per mile will exceed that of leasing.
The real scenario should look something like this. Purchase price 40,000...Resale of vehicle after 6 years with 72,000 miles $13,000. Added Maintenance Over 6 years...$1,500. Actual Cost per mile over 6 years. $.40 per mile. Time value of $40,000 over 6 years at 5% per annum over $6,382. True cost of ownership in cost per mile $.484 cents per mile.
Regarding the cost of maintenance, I used what Edmunds has on the True Cost To Own section.
Regarding insurance, you should look into that. My insurance agent told me that the cars are MUCH safer today then even 3-4 years ago. It is not the fact that a 2003 car would only cost 15k to replace vs. a 2008 at $28k, but if someone is disabled you are looking at a Million $'s regardless of the cost to replace the car. The fact that the 2008 has a significantly less chance of a serious injury, insurance premium is lower. Not sure if this is the case with the G35, but it was with my recent purchase.
I would also disagree with your comment regarding the value of the vehicle being fixed to the lessor/lien holder. The insurance company calculates the value of the vehicle when/if a complete loss occurs. If the value of the car is less then the amount you owe on a purchase, you, as the buyer, must pay the difference. In an IFS lease you are covered by GAP insurance. You can of course purchase GAP insurance if you purchase a car, but if you put 50% down on a car and it gets stolen on the 2nd day, then you are out about 10% as your insurance will pay you a depreciated value. If you leased a car and on the 2nd day it is stolen you are out your up front costs (which is why I put a big fat nothing down on mine). Another cost that you should consider when purchasing.
Yes, it is still cheaper to buy then lease, but the gap is narrowing.
This is exactly what my insurance carrier told me as well. I was surprised to learn that when i switched my wifes car from a 2004TL to a newer 2008 vehicle the rate did not go up at all.
If Edmunds True to Own Costs claim the average maintenance expenditure to operate a car over 6 years is $6K, as a former Literature Professor in College used to exclaim "They [Edmunds] are off their Rocker"!!! Perhaps those costs include gasoline and insurances.
As a trial lawyer who handles a significant portion of bodily injury and property damage claims I can tell you that you are gravely mistaken about how insurance claims benefits are paid out and how premiums are assessed.
When a car is financed, in other words, a security interest has been recorded with the local Sec. of State insurance company's will only issue policies which include Gap coverage. Otherwise the lien holder will put in own GAP coverage in effect at the buyers expense. Lessee's must provide the same coverage for the leased car.
Third party injury claims are paid under the third party liability provision of the auto policy. Liability is assessed against an insured based on a determination of breach of duty of care to another and injury resulting form said breach of duty. Age of a vehicle has no direct correlation to a finding of liability, unless the owner, operator of the vehicle was not properly maintained and the lack of proper maintenance vehicle proximately resulted in the injury. For that matter the operator of a 6 month old car, who has modified, neglected or abused his newer car to the point where it proximately resulted in property damage or injury to another could be held liable.
Whether a car is new or old, whether the car is owned or leased would normally make zero difference as to a liability determination. ZERO. Also the amount of benefits paid under a third party liability claim generally have no bearing on subsequent underwriting changes to the driver's premiums. Benefits will be paid up to the policy limits based on damages. If a motorist is determined to be liable for a financial sum in excess of their liability limits, any supplemental liability insurance they carry, such as homeowner's premise liability or an umbrella liability policy could satisfy the overage. Otherwise a judgment can be entered against the liable party, whereby bank accounts can be levied, real property can be liened and foreclosed upon, and wages can be garnished to satisfy the deficiency in insurance coverage.
Factors considered in underwriting liability portions of auto insurance policies are based on the insured driver's factors:
1) Age (younger drivers lack experience and take more risks)
2) Use of vehicle
3) Geographic area of vehicle registration
4) Whether you own or rent your dwelling
4) Sex and Marital Status
5) Credit history
4) History of being found liable for previous collisions.
5) Traffic law and criminal law violations
Again, with age of the vehicle collision/ comprehensive tend to drive down as a function of depreciation.
When I bought my G35 in 2003, I paid $900/ year for full State Farm coverage with $250 ded. $300K/ $300K L/U/U motorist coverage, with rental coverage. Five and a half years later I'm paying $710 per year.
The only reason you would need to calculate the finance rate as a function of 72 mos. is if you could not afford to pay off the car in 36 or 48 mos. Car loans in Illinois have no prepayment penalty.
In the example I gave above where my Dad bought his 5 series new in 1995, even with the cost of three sets of tires, a new radiator and the re-built transmission his ownership cost ($40K) over 120K miles hover around $0.30 per mile. If he had leased a new 5 series every 36 months the lease payments would have cost him over $86,000. That is $46,000 in his pocket. With that savings he will be able to buy a new 530i cash in full.
1) Risk category of car (Sporty cars with more power will be considered a higher risk
than less powerful cars as insurers feel they promote aggressive driving.)
KBB private party retail on a 2003 G35 coupe with the mileage my car has is $17,200.
My car is in pristine condition guys.
Because I drive it gently. Unlike 90% of the contributors on the various G35 forums who track their cars, perform mods, drive aggressively, change tires and brakes every 20K and perform Mobil 1 synthetic oil service to protect the car.
My tires lasted to nearly 40K miles, and brakes were replaced at 45K.
II have spent a total of $1000 in maintenance (tires and brakes) other than oil changes every 5.5.K. I follow Schedule II which is what my dealership recommends based on the type of driving I do.
Again when I sold my 4.5 year old E36 M3 with 45K miles I sold for 20% above KBB retail.
You fail to state the obvious. Succintly, that the cost of driving a 1995 vehicle will obviously be significantly less than a vehicle 6-8 years younger. If you are ok driving a vehicle that long that is fine, but some of us prefer to drive a new vehicle every 24 to 36 months, and there is an inherent cost involved in doing so that your analysis fails to incorporate into the equation.
Furthermore, if you chose to lease a vehicle that is 3-4 years old, which is now actually done and referred to as a second hand lease, the cost of such lease would be a fraction of the cost of a new vehicle. Your analysis fails to discount this as well. So if comparing apples to apples, let's consider the reduction of a lease expense vs. the loss of equity in an owned vehicle and run from there.
I can go on and on, but its a mute point. Those who want to own, will always find an argument that owning is cheaper than leasing, but having done both on numerous occassions, i would say it's a toss up, and if you like driving a car for 10 years, then absolutely go ahead and purchase. I, for one enjoy the smell of a new car every 3 years and lean towards leasing when the numbers make sense.
I really don't care to read the opinion of someone about why THEY never will lease or how dumb it is to do. I love leasing and someone else is not going to change my opinion about it.
There is a "Leasing vs. Purchasing" forum here at this link where folks that don't like leases can go an argue about it.
This forum should be for folks who have G lease questions - money factors, bank fees, residuals, payments, deals, etc. If you want to argue about leasing, there is a forum for that - and this is not it.
Thanks,
Dennis
Exactly right. Yes there is an absolute value to leasing if you want to be in and out of a car every 24 to 36 months.
It's the same as buying an expensive pair of shoes which will be worn once. A new TV every couple of years. New furniture and upholstery for a home every A new camera every year. A new wristwatch every year. The cost as a function of utility will always be significantly less than cost as a function of style, fads, trend.
If it's a new car smell you need every 24 months, I shower daily, don't eat or drink in my car, and annually hand scrub the interior with Murphy's Oil soap in warm water. So my 6 year old G35 smells pretty darn new.
I also have a call into my local Infiniti dealership on the issue of Multiple Security Deposits and what risks are associated with this deposit. I'm hoping to hear back shortly.
Thanks.
I received a quote on a lease from a Long Island Infiniti dealer as follows:
G35X w/Sport, Navigation, Technology and Premium packages.
MSRP 42165
Sell Price: 41300
2900 down, $485/month for 39 months
This is a first offer from the dealer I think that since the buy price is still quite a bit over invoice, that there is still room for further negotiation.
Opinions appreciated.
That car is fully loaded! It will be hard for them to sell a $41K+ G35. You should be able to get that for less than $500 over invoice.
Oh yea, study up on leases before you do one. Putting money down on a lease is a “BAD” idea in terms of risk(If you crash the car or trade the lease you loose your entire deposit). Here is the deal I got on an 08 G35 Journey with Premium, Sport, Navi, and Tech packages. Please note that I rolled $920 worth of payments from my previous car into this lease. That also is a “bad” idea but I am impatient and was willing to pay the extra $s to get the car this month.
36 month lease with 12K miles per year.
.0015 Money Factor
60% residual
Selling Price = $900($500 over inv + $400 doc fees) over invoice before you add in the $920 in previous payments
Absolutely nothing down. First months payment, sign, and drive.
$532 per month(This would have been in the low $500’s if I hadn’t rolled the other payments in).
My deal actually isn’t that great because I paid $900 over invoice. If you are patient and you shop around you can get $500 or less over invoice.
In the past, the MF was the same as the MF for the journey coupe and the residual was 1% higher (at 36 months) than the journey.
You can always ask the dealer what the rate is on the journey to see if they are marking up the rate of not, then ask for the base coupe rate.
I would call IFS directly and ask about the MSDs. Most dealers seem to either not know or not understand MSDs.
Dennis
The reason i was asking for the base rate for the G37 is not because i was planning on getting it without options. I noticed from numbers posted from someone else that the residual was 73% on it versus 71% for the Journey. by adding the Premium package to the base it's still 2% lower than the Journey, which doesn't offer much more from my initial impressioin.
G35X with Premium, Nav, Sport. for 24 Mths and 15K/Yr.
MSRP: $40,575
Sell Price: $37,500
MF: .00131
Residual: 70%
Total out of pocket: $1,059.40 (Including 1st Month Pmt.)
Monthly Payment: $487.91 all inclusive
Location: CT
Funny enough, trying to match these numbers with info from Edmunds or Cardirect is nearly impossible due to the variances in package prices, latest MSRP price increases, destination fees, etc... Doesn't make it any easier for us consumers...still very helpful as a guideline though.
I wanted to let you guys know, I got my Ivory Pearl G37 Base over the weekend!
Even without the "bells and whistles" the car IS sweet.
Here's the breakdown:
MSRP: 35,665 (this is the new delivery, so it has the $765 destination)
Sale: 32,890
Invoice: 32,858
MF: .00190
Residual: 63%
Term: 39mo/12k year
Monthly (with 8.25% tax): $404.90
Drive-Off: $595 bank fee + $45 doc fee + $280 dmv + $8.50 tire + $404.90 1st payment...total of: $1333.40
Had I gone with a 39/10k lease, I would have been able to keep it under $400 a month after tax. If you don't need the "goodies", the base has a higher residual value and will save you some cash, about $40-$50 a month.
I also managed to get 2 free oil changes from the deal, so that helped drive down the costs a bit more.
IFS offers GAP coverage and no disposition fees (in case you didn't know).
All in all, I'm loving it.
What *I* do is normally just pay the first month and signing and roll the other stuff (bank fee, taxes, etc) into the lease. It does depend on the lease rate, though. If I have a silly low rate (0.31% on my wife's Pilot) then I roll it all in. If the rate was more real-world, then I might still roll in but I may pay more at closing.
The issue I have with a true "sign and drive" is that there is no real formula for figuring those out. So while I can check to the penny if any normal deal I am looking at, a SnD deal never comes out to what I think is the right payment. There is also the issue of double taxes. In most states they tax the payment, so say your lease is $400 a month for 36 months and your tax is 5%, your payment is then $420 a month for 36 months. If you do SnD they roll the $420 back into the cap cost, charge you interest on it, and come up with a new base payment - THEN add 5% tax on top of the payment. True, it is only a few dollars but I don't like to sign anything when I can't make the numbers work out. What they should do is roll back in the base payment and re-figure it all, but I have never seen one that does that.
So pay the first payment at least at signing, it keeps the numbers verifiable
Dennis
Now that this forum has armed me with so much knowledge, what is the typical # of dealers that you guys contact before you go full force into working out the details?
Do you send mass e-mails to each dealer and specifically try to negotiate a deal with each dealer? When do you decide to cross off a dealer from your list?
I'd like to hear the process in which the e-mail process works.
Thanks for your responses in advance.
Now, let's stick to Infiniti G35/G37 leasing questions...
regards,
kyfdx
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Even without the "bells and whistles" the car IS sweet.
Here's the breakdown:
MSRP: 35,665 (this is the new delivery, so it has the $765 destination)
Sale: 32,890
Invoice: 32,858
MF: .00190
Residual: 63%
Term: 39mo/12k year
Monthly (with 8.25% tax): $404.90
Drive-Off: $595 bank fee + $45 doc fee + $280 dmv + $8.50 tire + $404.90 1st payment...total of: $1333.40
A G37 for $400 a month when there are people driving Toyota Camry's for that kind of money....you know that's a great deal...good job!!!
There are two "holiday" sales events coming up: Memorial Day and July 4. I'm holding off on any decision until I see what specials there may be especially Memorial Day ... ending a slow month. Here in AZ the snowbirds are gone, the dog days of summer are here, and business typically falls into the doldrums. :shades: Bart
Anyway, sales overall are down. At my dealer over the weekend, sales folks were just standing around or chit chatting. I even caught one sales guy napping on his chair.
I believe I was their 2nd sale of the day, that was at around 7-8pm too.
2008 journey w/sport and premium. splash, net and mats (black/stone int)
numbers:
msrp=37,935
cap costs=35,328 + 1,148 tax + 595 acq fee
resid=22,381(59%)
15,000miles
36/mo
MF=.00223 (this is the deal killer. the dealer told me with 673 fico that i'd get tier 1 and if IFS didn't come back with tier 1, he'd get it bought, of course after he pulled my credit he came back claiming tier 2. dennis, yes sir i did request to see the approval from IFS AS WELL as a copy of my credit report to be faxed to me. i have neither still today.)
$750 due at signing
payment $539/mo
I accepted the $35,328 as invoice is stated at 34,655, BUT i will not accept .00223. the difference between .00223 and .0015 is:
$539/mo vs. $488/mo and over $1,800 over the life of the lease. so i declined. not to mention the dealer in dallas pulled credit "FRIDAY" afternoon and promised to get back to me that day, yet didn't until MONDAY. wow..........anyway that's where i sit.
39 month IFS lease
Payment $452 before tax
$1300 at signing
64% residual
It seems like a good deal... any opinions?
If you stick with the rule of thumb on the board of $500 over invoice being an "ok" deal (some are lower, others are higher) then you are looking at a payment of $446 + tax with your 1st month payment, $595 acq fee and your license/registration fee due at signing.
If your license/title fees are around $225-250 then it looks like the money due at signing is the 1st payment, acq fee and the license/reg fees. If this is the case then you are about $6 a month in payment over the invoice +$500 deal.
If the MSRP matches what I listed above, I would offer them the $452 a month but only pay $1,000 at signing, this puts you at about $450 over invoice.
I did the calculation based on 15k miles per year, if you drop down to 12k you save $10 a month and at 10k per year the payment is $427+tax. This is assuming the standard residual and money factors posted here earlier.
same car - no splash guards
12,000 miles a year
$437 month before taxes
$1000 down
I can't believe how far apart dealers can be. Would this be the better deal? Or does it not seem possible?
MSRP $39925
Cap Cost $36286.12
Rolled in bank fee and dealer fee $1290.00
Gross Cap Cost: $37576.12
Residual: 59% Money Factor: .0015
Monthly payment for 12k/39 mos $465.26
Amount due at Signing $693.67 (1st month, tax, regis & FL fee)
I think its a good deal, but here is my question. I wanted a 12K/36 month lease and they would not do it. The salesman came back and said they would give me the car for the $36,200.00 (approx) I had asked for but it must be a 39 month lease. Does anyone know why?
Also, I too did not quite make the Tier 1 cut (700). My score was 684. The Tier two financing increased the payment by more than $57.00. I informed the finance guy it was a deal breaker and eventually he left the room talked to the General Manager. The General Manager agreed to "call in a favor" with IFS and give me the Tier One financing rate. If you are close to 700 hold out for the Tier 1, Tier 2 is ridiculous.
Thanks again, could not have done it without you guys!
My dealer told me that he has seen some guys come in that made a quarter of a mil and couldn't get financed on a $35K G35 after their divorce! Man the "woman" can always get you down! Thankfully, my wife said "Just buy the damn car, it is less than my new bicycle anyway"! Just kidding about the bike, well not really!
Dealer is offering 39mo lease, 12k miles, and inception down of $1682 (see below). Monthly rate was $450. This was too high for me and I wanted to bring the monthly down. I told the dealer I wanted out of pocket to be $2500 max and $400 a month. With $2500 down (an additional 817.92 on top of the incept costs below), the dealer came down to $420. Said that was the closest they could get. Is this a good deal?
1st payment 450.00
tax 55.58
bank fees 595.00
motor vehicle/regis 375.00
dock fee 199.00
tire fee 7.50
thanks
by the way, my deal is g35x with NAV and premium package
$2600 due at signing $369 a month 24 months 10k miles...good deal?
G37, Premium, Navigation Package $41,425, dealer selling for $38,227. The payment with $2,000 at signing is $439.36 plus tax ($473.51).
?
i think they can be a bit more aggressive..