I thought so. When naming your price you should tell what you paid for the car, destination, and dealer fee. It is like saying "the dealer sold me the new car for way under invoice - but they gave me $5,000 less than book value for my trade" .
I paid $300 or so over invoice (VPP plan) with $0 doc fee and then less the $500 (at the time) conquest cash. At the time no HotLanta area dealer would do lower than the VPP price + $500 doc fee ($800 over less $500 conquest cash).
My local dealer has a high doc fee, marks up the money factor, and loads up every car with over $1k of dealer added stuff. So getting a deal from the is truly impossible - VPP claim code or paying cash or whatever. They do have a lot of sales, but I guess that is because the next closest dealer is 2 hours away and after that it is 3 hours the 4 hours (one way) do get a better deal.
Can someone explain what the conquest cash is? I'm looking at leasing a G35X, as it seems some of the dealers around here (St. Louis) are making some good offers trying to unload these.
Also, I see people on here talking about lease calculators and others about working up lease payments in a spreadsheet. Can anyone direct me to a good lease calculator that also provides an overview of how to calculate the lease payment? I want to be fully educated on how the math works, rather than having a helpful salesperson 'teach' me...
I have a few questions about leasing. I've read through a good chunk of this forum, but there are a few things I'm not clear on, mainly the fees. Doc fees Acquisition fees Dealer fees I basically have the same questions about all 3, are they negotiable, can they be rolled into a monthly payment or do they have to be paid upfront, and are they included in the invoice price? Also specifically the dealer fee, is this the profit they make on the car, or is it something else? Last question, is there a good place to find out current offers such as conquest cash or additional trunk money? Thanks in advance.
Acquisition fee- also known as bank fee- this is standard- $595 for Infiniti. It is non-negotiable Doc fee- this is at the discretion of the dealer, supposedly to cover the paperwork cost. Ranges from 0 to $299. May be negotiable. Dealer fee- this is NOT his profit margin. Sometimes called dealer prep fee. IMO it is BS and many dealers will waive it or reduce it None of these fees is part of the invoice price, which is only the cost of the car including destination fee. It is entirely up to you whether to roll theses extra fees into the lease or pay them up front. (by paying up front you avoid interest charges on them.) My own preference is to pay the extra fees, the DMV fee (for license, reg etc- this varies by state) and the 1st months lease up front with the rest rolled into the lease. So the lease includes the negotiated cost of the car plus tax plus interest. Hope this answers your question Alan
Doc fee: The fee the dealer charges for paper work, negotiable Acquision fee: the fee the bank charges for allowing you to lease, not negotiable but some dealers raise this fee and keep the difference Dealer fee: pure profit, there should not be any in your deal.
They have two customer cash deals now - "loyalty cash" is for folks who currently own or lease an Infiniti (you show them your current registration to qualify) and they have "conquest cash" which is for folks who own / lease any other brand (again, you should them your current registration to quality). Sometimes the amounts are different (more for Infiniti owners) and some times the same, sometimes the lease and purchase amounts are the same other times they are different. Right now it is $350 cash for either type of customer on a lease and $1,000 for either type of customer on a sale. So your price target will be $350 lower than it would be without the extra cash.
Note that customer cash is only available on G35 sedans and NOT on G37 coupes.
If you have a Palm device I always recommend "Lease-It!" that is free to try and $10 to buy. I have owned it for YEARS and it comes in so handy to have a lease calc in your Palm Pilot / Palm Phone right in the dealership. Here is the web page.
Dealer fee = dealer doc fee = dealer prep fee: All different names for the same thing which is basically extra profit for the dealership. They can advertise cars for invoice and this stick a $500 doc fee or setup fee or prep fee on top of the price to make the deal not so good. Some dealers have $0 fees, others are as high as $500-600! In some states the amount is regulated, in others it is not. In general, find a dealer with little or now doc / prep fees for the best deal but what matters is the sum of the car price, destination, and any dealer fee (no matter the name). I have leased two Hondas from a dealership is $500+ in doc fees, but the net price for the car with destination and fees is under invoice and down into the hold back. These fees are normally non-negotiable and are pre-printed on the paperwork by the dealer to "enforce" that they can't be changed. No matter, when getting quotes make sure they include the vehicle, destination, and fees and go with the lowest TOTAL with the fee included. Then you don't care if the fee is $2k as long as the net price is low.
Lease Acquisition fee = Acquisition fee = bank fee . A fee paid to the bank to initiate lease transaction. In theory covers the cost of the credit report, paperwork, setting up the lease, administering the lease, etc, etc. Really just (mostly) extra money for the lease bank. Non-negotiable as well, but watch out for sneaky dealers who mark this up for extra profit. $595 is the IFS bank fee and that is all you should have to pay.
Anything can be rolled into the lease - whatever you want, you are in charge. You can pay nothing at signing (sign and drive) or pay thousands down (not a good idea). Normally, if the rate is low - below market rate money - then I would roll everything into the lease including the fees and taxes. If they rate is high, you might want to pay more of these things at signing - or better still, wait until the rate is better or go lease something else.
The Edmunds incentives page is NORMALLY the best place to go to get incentive info, but they have dropped the ball on the Infiniti customer cash and it is still not shown.
Thanks for the detailed responses on the fees everyone, they are very helpful. It seems like its easy to know how to negotiate residual, money factor, cap cost, etc. but when random fees get thrown on, its hard to know which are BS and which aren't. again, appreciate the help
The residual is set by the lease bank (IFS in most cases for a G lease) and can't be changed by you or the dealer.
The buy rate on the money factor is also set by the lease bank, but the dealer can mark it up for extra profit. I would say most Infiniti dealers mark up the lease MF - or try to. This is not uncommon in high line cars, I am afraid - I think EVERY BMW dealer marks up the buy rate.
With $350 rebate applied to invoice, selling price is $37,787
Lease Information: 39m, 15K/yr $1490.49 - Tax, Title, Reg., Acquisition $0 Down other than start-up fees $525.00 - Check to me to cover my last payment on my M35
======> $486.74/m
I called another dealer and said to beat the invoice quote I was given and he almost dropped the phone. Anyone know more information about this deal?
I wanted to confirm if these figures are current. .00150 mf and 61% residual for 36 mo 12K/year lease. my father has put me in charge of negotiating his next lease. he is coming off a lease from his Q45 on 8/1 and wants the G35 or M35. Will the mf and residual change for July and does anyone know what they might be?
They might have an idea, but they may not decide until the month end and they look at the sales numbers. Good numbers = no need for better deals, crummy numbers = maybe some better deals.
I went to the nearest Infinit dealership today and they quoted me a very high lease payment in my opinion.
Before I provide the details, let me ask the obvious.
Is Infiniti's June base rate (.00184) for a G37 Journey for 24 months/ 12K miles per year the same as what the dealer quoted me today? They quoted the Rate as being 1.84.
Here are the details from dealer # 1 (obviously I have to shop around):
MSRP = $43,875 Capitalized Cost = $41,187.22 Total After Market Options = $599 Cap Reduction = $0 Residual = 72% Rate = 1.84 Florida Tax = 7% Inceptions including first month = $1,456 Monthly including Tax = $598.63
It's a Black Obsedian/Graphite interior G37 Journey with Premium/Sport/Navigation/Spoiler (accounts for the $599 AMO)
The drive off is fine since I was thinking it would be in that ball park. However, the monthly price (including tax) is crazy high compared to what I've seen in previous posts. I don't expect to get the exact same deal as everyone else, but $599/month is rediculous.
When I told the sale guy the Cap Cost was too high, he made no effort to negotiate further and allowed me to walk out. What gives?
Any advice g37 owners? BTW, I went to South Motors Infiniti in Miami, Florida.
Does anyone know how the IFS online preapproval work. I was approved online and was told by the preapproval that I would need to take the letter into a dealership. However, when I arrived at a dealership they stated I would have to apply all over again. Is this how it normally works and if so what is the purpose of the online IFS preapproval? Thanks
I cannot build a G37 that comes up with your MSRP, but from guesstimates it looks like are around $1000 above invoice, not that bad for a hot car. The other numbers are correct, as in the lease payment and rates. Remember you are leasing a $41,000 car for only 24 months, you are not going to get some $400+ payment.
You also always get screwed when leasing a car with nav. Technology like navigation has little residual value, so they make you pay for much of it during the lease..
2005 G35 Sedan 2007 G35 Sedan 2008 G37 Sedan 2010 G37 Coupe 2012 G37 Sedan 2014 Q50 RWD 2017 Q60 3.0t RWD 2018 QX60 RWD
This is how it works for IFS and for many other captive banks. It should not, but it does.
If you read this "fine print" on the IFS web page:
Infiniti Financial Services is a division of Nissan Motor Acceptance Corporation. For leases, Infiniti Financial Services acts as servicer for Nissan-Infiniti LT. For ease of reference, we use the term "loan" on this web site to refer to conventional retail auto financing available from car Retailers. IFS is not a direct lender and does not advance funds to car buyers for the purchase of a vehicle. IFS financing is available only at participating Infiniti Retailers. When you finance a car at an Infiniti Retailer, you will enter into a retail installment contract with the Retailer. If IFS approves your credit application, your Retailer may elect to assign the retail installment contract to IFS.
It appears to indicate that the dealer is the one who actually has to approve you for a lease or a loan and not IFS itself. So as far as I can see, there is no purpose to getting pre-approved with IFS (or most other captive banks).
BMWFS, on the other hand, does it right. You can apply and get approved online and then when you find a car and select a dealer you can login online and have the application directed to that dealer. When you show up to pick up your car, they have your pre-approved application printed up waiting for your signature. Every other time I have ever used a pre-approval process I have had to fill about another credit app at the dealership anyway, so there seems to be no point to them at all.
If you subscribe to a credit watch service you can see the hits on your report and they should include one from IFS and then one from the dealer.
First off, you don't worry about the payments until you have dealt the price down - which you have not done. Don't even mention you want to lease until you have a nice price on the car - including destination and dealer fee. THEN get the lease numbers based on this price. Once the dealer has you at the "this much down and this much a month" stage then it can be really hard to get a good deal or even know how much you are really paying for the car.
A G37 journey with sport/nav/premium/splash would be $43,865 MSRP and $39,951 invoice so you are around $1,236 over invoice which is way too much (to me) to be paying and that does not count the added spoiler. Since dealer installed options can't be included in the lease you are having to pay for every penny of that. So if you want a spoiler, lease a car with one from the factory and not one added on by the dealer. There is probably a hefty dealer doc fee in there someplace as well.
As was mentioned though, your are leasing a $40k car (at invoice) over a very short term (24 months) in a state with a high tax rate (7%) so you are going to be paying a lot of money for this. Say you got a G37 with just nav/premium/sport/journey and splash.72% of MSRP would be $31,582.80 and say you got it for $500 over invoice including dealer fee ($40,451). If you paid the tags and title and $595 bank fee up front the payment without tax would be $502.05 and $537.19 with 7% tax. So given that you are paying too much for the car and 100% of the spoiler and probably a nice dealer fee, it is not that far to $599 a month - but still a lot to pay. If I increase the cap cost in the deal for $500 over invoice by $1,346 I get your $599 payment. So that would be too much for the car, the dealer fee, and the spoiler - I guess.
Thanks so much for the education. I've learned alot from the boards but obviously not enough.
We went out yesterday and took a stab at a local dealer in Md (1 of 4 in the area). The salesman was definitely not kosher but we needed to start the lease process somewhere... Following is quoted info for G35x/premium/wood panel. I'd appreciate any and all feedback on this deal but, pls be kind-- we're obviously newbies! Like I said, we won't return to this dealer but will want to deal with another one pronto. The red flag was $350. customer incentive that he waffled on once I brought it up.
- Can anyone recommend a dealer in the Md/DC/Va area??
- Outside of Invoice, what other info is missing from the following that we'll need to determine if this is a good deal or not?
- We were planning on putting down 5K + to lower the lease pymts to the $300 range on a 36 month lease- bad idea?
- I'll check with the accountant but does anyone know if you can write off the down pymt on a lease?
Dealer offered following special lease deal right of the bat (mistake #1 was us bringing up the lease):
Invoice- wouldn't share! Claimed that we had to pick out the car and get in front of money man before discussing invoice. This was obviously a speed bump.
The current lease deals as shown on the Infiniti web page all say they end June 30, so I would assume new rates (or the same ones extended) will come out on July 1 or so.
You do not want to put $5000 down on a lease. If you drive off the lot after putting $5000 down and total the car, your insurance company will pay off the balance due to the lease holder, and you will get squat.
2005 G35 Sedan 2007 G35 Sedan 2008 G37 Sedan 2010 G37 Coupe 2012 G37 Sedan 2014 Q50 RWD 2017 Q60 3.0t RWD 2018 QX60 RWD
Hi tonyr313. According to my calculations, if you were to lease a 2008 Infiniti G37 Coupe that has an MSRP of $40,695 and a selling price of $37,080 through Infiniti Financial Services right now for 36 months with 10,000 miles per year, its zero down, pre-tax monthly payment should be around $418. With this deal, at lease signing you would have to pay your car's first month's payment, a security deposit of $450, IFS' $595 acquisition fee, and any required state taxes or fees. A $589 doc fee is definitely high, but as long as you look at it as part of your car's total selling price and it is still acceptable it doesn't matter how it breaks down.
Car_man Host Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum
I'm fine. Thanks for asking, jaypolostls. Infiniti Financial Services' current buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 24 month lease of a 2008 Infiniti G37 Coupe (not the Sport or Journey) with 15,000 miles per year are .00184 and 74%, respectively. The numbers for an otherwise identical 36 month lease are .00192 and 63%. The 39 month numbers are .00190 and 62%.
Car_man Host Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum
Couple of things... Probably not a good idea to go to the dealer unless you are ready to sign papers. Get your numbers via email before you even go in so you can save yourself the stress. I find it much easier to deal with the sales guy via email first because they know you won't come in unless you get all the numbers up front. Ask the dealer for invoice price (look it up here first), then ask for the money factor and residual (which you can easily find here or on my site). Also, ask for the inception fees, what they are and how much they are, that way you can decide what to roll into your lease to lower the money you pay up front. Don't bundle give the dealer $5000 or even $3750 up front without knowing where that money goes. Would you give me $5k and let me figure out your numbers for you without telling you where it goes? If not, then don't do with a dealer that won't even give you the invoice price.
any chance you will get a hold of the July rates tomorrow (7/1) on a G35x 24 & 36 months for 10 & 12k (I know no 10k for 24months). & also whether any new or continued rebates apply (lease cash).
I made a really nice deal today, but the car was already sold, and they did not have another that met my specs (color combo with right equipment).
So I had to walk away. I was not going to spend this kind of cash for a car that was not the exact (within reason) one I wanted, even with a good deal. No need to settle, but I hope I did not make a mistake with higher July rates and possibly no lease cash.
I will ask and see, but you could just ask your dealer and see what they say. You trust them, right ?
Edit: I was told the numbers remain the same until the 7th (next Monday).
I started looking 8 or 9 months before I lease my G37. I wanted a 6mt in silver and graphite with certain options and when there were good lease deals, no cars. When there was a car, terrible lease deals. Eventually there was a good lease deal AND a car . You should get what you want, even if you have to wait to get it.
Well, just contacted my local dealer. I emailed them requesting MSRP residual MF invoice, blah blah blah. They responded the following, keep in mind, this is only after I sent off the initial email, with no negotiating. Once I talk to them some more, I'll post where I end up.
I asked for a base G37 15K miles 36 or 39 month lease, minimum due up front
$494 with tax and $1338 due Msrp $35215 MF .00220 Residual 60% doc fee 4180 <- obvious typo, should be 410 or 480 bank fee is $595 The invoice should be just under 32,100. I'm going to try and get them down to the buy rate, 500ish over invoice, and waive doc fee. Also, the residual is 1-2% low.
thanks for the update. After I got your post I called the dealer back and they agreed that the numbers were continued an extra week. They also are going to give me my deal (I will post all the numbers as soon as I take delivery, don't want to jinx myself) and locate the car in the color/equipment combo I am looking for (G35x Platinum Graphite/Graphite with Premium, splash guards and cargo net). I was concerned that it was a last day of the month deal only, but they appear to be going forward with it.
First rule of leasing - always negotiate the selling price first.
When you contact dealers ask for the price of the car including destination and any dealer doc or prep fees. Ask if they have any dealer installed options on their cars.
Once you have the best price, something close to invoice when you include the fees and take off the customer cash, THEN you are ready to worry about the lease numbers.
By asking for lease prices you totally obscure the price of the car, which puts you firmly in the dealer's clutches.
You can't control the lease MF, IFS does but the dealer can mark it up if you don't watch them. The residual you can't control. The bank fee you can't control, but the dealer may try to mark that up too.
So what can you control? Where you buy your car (no markup on MF and bank fee and little or no doc fee), when you buy you car (buy when the rates are low and/or residuals are high) and how much you pay (your negotiated price).
Thanks for the advice Dennis, its the first time I've leased a car. I left a voicemail for the salesman, but it was just before the dealership closed. I expect to hear back from him tomorrow. I plan on taking your advice and getting the sale price down before trying to get them to drop doc fees and the MF markup.
In regards to the G35/37 lease deals does one have to put down the about 3500.00 cost reduction. I had planned on putting nothing down but the dealer told me that I would have to in order to lease. Is this true? thanks
To my understanding, unless you have bad credit, you are never required to put money down. 3500.00 down is a lot of money. Another way of looking at it is, the dealer is trying to entice you to "require" to put that much money down in order for your monthly payments to be lowered. That is a lot of money down on a lease although if you have bad credit, it might not be a choice. That is where I'm not too sure about.
I am about to lease a 2008 g35x. i spoke to the dealer several times, he confirmed that the numbers will remain the same untill Jul 7th.
He offered me the following:
MSRP: $36500 Sale $: ?? - not willing to ne. over phone! NY tax: 8.625% Acq Fee: $795 Their Fee: $590 (am not gunan pay it!) 24mo/12000 MP- $369... total Out of Pocket- $3500 (seems very high?)
at first eh offered me this monthly payment for on a 36mo/12k deal!!! - so in theory should i choose a 36 mo lease now should it not be lower than $369? thanks!!
i have good credit and wanted to know how to work these Out of Pocket fees down. thnaks! :confuse:
Has anyone ever heard of the following regarding taxes added to a lease.
I got a quote where a dealer in CT took the Cap Cost of the car and then added 6% for taxes to that number. Cap Cost was $38,301 and with taxes $2,316 and $299 Document Fee gave me a total Cap Cost of $40,916. The quoted me $555 for a 36 month 15 K lease, $0 down $0 walk out the door Fees. Residual = 62% MF= .00192.
I have never leased a car where they added the full tax of the car on to the Cap Cost. I have always had it added after the Depreciation and Finance Fees have been calculated.
When I calculated the numbers the way I have always leased cars i came up with a $507 a month including taxes. about $50 less a month.
With good credit, you can do a sign and drive and pay nothing up front - or pay whatever you want. Most of the advertised "lease deals" call for a lot of money up front to make the payments lower to lure you in. Most are not great deals either and leave lots of profit for the dealer if you took that "deal".
For the 123st time, the first step in leasing is to negotiate the price of the car just as if you were paying cash. Once you have a nice low price, near invoice including the dealer's doc or prep fee, then you worry about applying that to the lease residual and money factor.
Sale $: ?? - not willing to ne. over phone! NY tax: 8.625% Acq Fee: $795 Their Fee: $590 (am not gunan pay it!)
Time to find another dealer. If they will not give me a price without me having to go onto the lot, then I don't go - I take my business elsewhere.
Also, the bank fee is $595 so they are marking it up $200 for extra profit and wanting nearly $600 for a doc fee. I would bet they mark up the lease MF as well.
Where do you live, that is the key? If you lease a car in CT and live in CT then as far as I know they just tax the payment at 6%. If you lease a car in CT and live in another state, then you pay whatever taxes that state dictates in whatever manner. Here, we tax the payment at 7%. In Texas and IL and a few other states they tax the entire car. In NY they tax the payments, but make you pay it up front (it can be rolled into the lease).
So either they figured it right for where you live, or they have change the taxes in CT, or they just messed up.
Alright, Just closed the deal on my new G37!!! So excited!
This is the Base model with no real options added on. MSRP 35215 Sales Price 33353
Due at inception: $1800 595 Bank fee 180 Doc fee 429 First Months payment ~100 tax, title transfer, etc just under $500 cap reduction
$429 / month
I think I might have been able to do slightly better, but I'm pretty happy with this deal. Also, this was the only base G37 in about 200+ miles. Everything else was a sticker of 39K+
Check here on Edmunds, KBB, and carsdirect and put in the car and all the options. If the MSRP matches what is on the window sticker, then the invoice price shown online should match as well. If the car you are looking at was made before the price increases (2 this year) then the MSRP shown online will be more, just take the MSRP difference from the invoice shown online and you have about invoice on the car you are looking at. Note that Edmunds shows invoice WITHOUT destination and you need to include it.
Once you have invoice, then there is a $350 customer cash for a lease deal ($1k on purchase) so a good price for the car, destination, and dealer fee would be $150 to $350 over invoice when you add everything up and take off the cash.
39 months 10,000 miles residual 61% $37,350 cap cost $40,600 msrp includes premium package, navigation, wood trim, splash guards $460 a month including 6% sales tax mf .00172 An includes oil changes for as long as I own the car.
Comments
I paid $300 or so over invoice (VPP plan) with $0 doc fee and then less the $500 (at the time) conquest cash. At the time no HotLanta area dealer would do lower than the VPP price + $500 doc fee ($800 over less $500 conquest cash).
My local dealer has a high doc fee, marks up the money factor, and loads up every car with over $1k of dealer added stuff. So getting a deal from the is truly impossible - VPP claim code or paying cash or whatever. They do have a lot of sales, but I guess that is because the next closest dealer is 2 hours away and after that it is 3 hours the 4 hours (one way) do get a better deal.
Dennis
Also, I see people on here talking about lease calculators and others about working up lease payments in a spreadsheet. Can anyone direct me to a good lease calculator that also provides an overview of how to calculate the lease payment? I want to be fully educated on how the math works, rather than having a helpful salesperson 'teach' me...
Doc fees
Acquisition fees
Dealer fees
I basically have the same questions about all 3, are they negotiable, can they be rolled into a monthly payment or do they have to be paid upfront, and are they included in the invoice price?
Also specifically the dealer fee, is this the profit they make on the car, or is it something else?
Last question, is there a good place to find out current offers such as conquest cash or additional trunk money?
Thanks in advance.
Doc fee- this is at the discretion of the dealer, supposedly to cover the paperwork cost. Ranges from 0 to $299. May be negotiable.
Dealer fee- this is NOT his profit margin. Sometimes called dealer prep fee. IMO it is BS and many dealers will waive it or reduce it
None of these fees is part of the invoice price, which is only the cost of the car including destination fee.
It is entirely up to you whether to roll theses extra fees into the lease or pay them up front. (by paying up front you avoid interest charges on them.) My own preference is to pay the extra fees, the DMV fee (for license, reg etc- this varies by state) and the 1st months lease up front with the rest rolled into the lease. So the lease includes the negotiated cost of the car plus tax plus interest.
Hope this answers your question
Alan
Acquision fee: the fee the bank charges for allowing you to lease, not negotiable but some dealers raise this fee and keep the difference
Dealer fee: pure profit, there should not be any in your deal.
Note that customer cash is only available on G35 sedans and NOT on G37 coupes.
If you check the messages here in the forum and here and here (and others) you can see how simple it is to make one in a spreadsheet in just seconds.
If you have a Palm device I always recommend "Lease-It!" that is free to try and $10 to buy. I have owned it for YEARS and it comes in so handy to have a lease calc in your Palm Pilot / Palm Phone right in the dealership. Here is the web page.
Dennis
Lease Acquisition fee = Acquisition fee = bank fee . A fee paid to the bank to initiate lease transaction. In theory covers the cost of the credit report, paperwork, setting up the lease, administering the lease, etc, etc. Really just (mostly) extra money for the lease bank. Non-negotiable as well, but watch out for sneaky dealers who mark this up for extra profit. $595 is the IFS bank fee and that is all you should have to pay.
Anything can be rolled into the lease - whatever you want, you are in charge. You can pay nothing at signing (sign and drive) or pay thousands down (not a good idea). Normally, if the rate is low - below market rate money - then I would roll everything into the lease including the fees and taxes. If they rate is high, you might want to pay more of these things at signing - or better still, wait until the rate is better or go lease something else.
The Edmunds incentives page is NORMALLY the best place to go to get incentive info, but they have dropped the ball on the Infiniti customer cash and it is still not shown.
Dennis
It seems like its easy to know how to negotiate residual, money factor, cap cost, etc. but when random fees get thrown on, its hard to know which are BS and which aren't. again, appreciate the help
The residual is set by the lease bank (IFS in most cases for a G lease) and can't be changed by you or the dealer.
The buy rate on the money factor is also set by the lease bank, but the dealer can mark it up for extra profit. I would say most Infiniti dealers mark up the lease MF - or try to. This is not uncommon in high line cars, I am afraid - I think EVERY BMW dealer marks up the buy rate.
Dennis
G35 AWD with:
* Premium
* Navigation
* Sport AWD
* Splash Guards
* Spoiler
MSRP: $41,220
Invoice: $37,663
Dealer information:
With $350 rebate applied to invoice, selling price is $37,787
Lease Information:
39m, 15K/yr
$1490.49 - Tax, Title, Reg., Acquisition
$0 Down other than start-up fees
$525.00 - Check to me to cover my last payment on my M35
======> $486.74/m
I called another dealer and said to beat the invoice quote I was given and he almost dropped the phone. Anyone know more information about this deal?
Thanks!!
Probably and no
Dennis
Dennis
Amethyst Graphite
Premium Pkg.
Navigation
Illuminated Kick Plates
Cargo Net
$500 over invoice - 24 mo lease - 15k miles / year - .00184 MF
Infiniti of Scottsdale - See Frank Flores!!
Best experience I've ever had!
Before I provide the details, let me ask the obvious.
Is Infiniti's June base rate (.00184) for a G37 Journey for 24 months/ 12K miles per year the same as what the dealer quoted me today? They quoted the Rate as being 1.84.
Here are the details from dealer # 1 (obviously I have to shop around):
MSRP = $43,875
Capitalized Cost = $41,187.22
Total After Market Options = $599
Cap Reduction = $0
Residual = 72%
Rate = 1.84
Florida Tax = 7%
Inceptions including first month = $1,456
Monthly including Tax = $598.63
It's a Black Obsedian/Graphite interior G37 Journey with Premium/Sport/Navigation/Spoiler (accounts for the $599 AMO)
The drive off is fine since I was thinking it would be in that ball park. However, the monthly price (including tax) is crazy high compared to what I've seen in previous posts. I don't expect to get the exact same deal as everyone else, but $599/month is rediculous.
When I told the sale guy the Cap Cost was too high, he made no effort to negotiate further and allowed me to walk out. What gives?
Any advice g37 owners? BTW, I went to South Motors Infiniti in Miami, Florida.
Have a great weekend!
You also always get screwed when leasing a car with nav. Technology like navigation has little residual value, so they make you pay for much of it during the lease..
2005 G35 Sedan2007 G35 Sedan
2008 G37 Sedan
2010 G37 Coupe
2012 G37 Sedan
2014 Q50 RWD
2017 Q60 3.0t RWD
2018 QX60 RWD
If you read this "fine print" on the IFS web page:
Infiniti Financial Services is a division of Nissan Motor Acceptance Corporation. For leases, Infiniti Financial Services acts as servicer for Nissan-Infiniti LT. For ease of reference, we use the term "loan" on this web site to refer to conventional retail auto financing available from car Retailers. IFS is not a direct lender and does not advance funds to car buyers for the purchase of a vehicle. IFS financing is available only at participating Infiniti Retailers. When you finance a car at an Infiniti Retailer, you will enter into a retail installment contract with the Retailer. If IFS approves your credit application, your Retailer may elect to assign the retail installment contract to IFS.
It appears to indicate that the dealer is the one who actually has to approve you for a lease or a loan and not IFS itself. So as far as I can see, there is no purpose to getting pre-approved with IFS (or most other captive banks).
BMWFS, on the other hand, does it right. You can apply and get approved online and then when you find a car and select a dealer you can login online and have the application directed to that dealer. When you show up to pick up your car, they have your pre-approved application printed up waiting for your signature. Every other time I have ever used a pre-approval process I have had to fill about another credit app at the dealership anyway, so there seems to be no point to them at all.
If you subscribe to a credit watch service you can see the hits on your report and they should include one from IFS and then one from the dealer.
Dennis
A G37 journey with sport/nav/premium/splash would be $43,865 MSRP and $39,951 invoice so you are around $1,236 over invoice which is way too much (to me) to be paying and that does not count the added spoiler. Since dealer installed options can't be included in the lease you are having to pay for every penny of that. So if you want a spoiler, lease a car with one from the factory and not one added on by the dealer. There is probably a hefty dealer doc fee in there someplace as well.
As was mentioned though, your are leasing a $40k car (at invoice) over a very short term (24 months) in a state with a high tax rate (7%) so you are going to be paying a lot of money for this. Say you got a G37 with just nav/premium/sport/journey and splash.72% of MSRP would be $31,582.80 and say you got it for $500 over invoice including dealer fee ($40,451). If you paid the tags and title and $595 bank fee up front the payment without tax would be $502.05 and $537.19 with 7% tax. So given that you are paying too much for the car and 100% of the spoiler and probably a nice dealer fee, it is not that far to $599 a month - but still a lot to pay. If I increase the cap cost in the deal for $500 over invoice by $1,346 I get your $599 payment. So that would be too much for the car, the dealer fee, and the spoiler - I guess.
Dennis
Thanks
Thanks so much for the education. I've learned alot from the boards but obviously not enough.
We went out yesterday and took a stab at a local dealer in Md (1 of 4 in the area). The salesman was definitely not kosher but we needed to start the lease process somewhere... Following is quoted info for G35x/premium/wood panel. I'd appreciate any and all feedback on this deal but, pls be kind-- we're obviously newbies! Like I said, we won't return to this dealer but will want to deal with another one pronto. The red flag was $350. customer incentive that he waffled on once I brought it up.
- Can anyone recommend a dealer in the Md/DC/Va area??
- Outside of Invoice, what other info is missing from the following that we'll need to determine if this is a good deal or not?
- We were planning on putting down 5K + to lower the lease pymts to the $300 range on a 36 month lease- bad idea?
- I'll check with the accountant but does anyone know if you can write off the down pymt on a lease?
Dealer offered following special lease deal right of the bat (mistake #1 was us bringing up the lease):
MSRP- $37,680
$3530. down (incl 1st months pymt)
12K miles, 39 months
+ tax, title, tags
+ $300. processing/doc fee
+ $450 wood trim
- $350. cust loyalty
Lease pymt: $359./mo.
mf .00172
Residual 59%
Invoice- wouldn't share! Claimed that we had to pick out the car and get in front of money man before discussing invoice. This was obviously a speed bump.
Dennis
Thanks,
David
2005 G35 Sedan2007 G35 Sedan
2008 G37 Sedan
2010 G37 Coupe
2012 G37 Sedan
2014 Q50 RWD
2017 Q60 3.0t RWD
2018 QX60 RWD
Car_man
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Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum
Car_man
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Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum
Probably not a good idea to go to the dealer unless you are ready to sign papers.
Get your numbers via email before you even go in so you can save yourself the stress. I find it much easier to deal with the sales guy via email first because they know you won't come in unless you get all the numbers up front.
Ask the dealer for invoice price (look it up here first), then ask for the money factor and residual (which you can easily find here or on my site). Also, ask for the inception fees, what they are and how much they are, that way you can decide what to roll into your lease to lower the money you pay up front. Don't bundle give the dealer $5000 or even $3750 up front without knowing where that money goes. Would you give me $5k and let me figure out your numbers for you without telling you where it goes? If not, then don't do with a dealer that won't even give you the invoice price.
any chance you will get a hold of the July rates tomorrow (7/1) on a G35x 24 & 36 months for 10 & 12k (I know no 10k for 24months). & also whether any new or continued rebates apply (lease cash).
I made a really nice deal today, but the car was already sold, and they did not have another that met my specs (color combo with right equipment).
So I had to walk away. I was not going to spend this kind of cash for a car that was not the exact (within reason) one I wanted, even with a good deal. No need to settle, but I hope I did not make a mistake with higher July rates and possibly no lease cash.
gperr
Edit: I was told the numbers remain the same until the 7th (next Monday).
I started looking 8 or 9 months before I lease my G37. I wanted a 6mt in silver and graphite with certain options and when there were good lease deals, no cars. When there was a car, terrible lease deals. Eventually there was a good lease deal AND a car
Dennis
I emailed them requesting MSRP residual MF invoice, blah blah blah. They responded the following, keep in mind, this is only after I sent off the initial email, with no negotiating. Once I talk to them some more, I'll post where I end up.
I asked for a base G37 15K miles 36 or 39 month lease, minimum due up front
$494 with tax and $1338 due
Msrp $35215
MF .00220
Residual 60%
doc fee 4180 <- obvious typo, should be 410 or 480
bank fee is $595
The invoice should be just under 32,100.
I'm going to try and get them down to the buy rate, 500ish over invoice, and waive doc fee. Also, the residual is 1-2% low.
thanks for the update. After I got your post I called the dealer back and they agreed that the numbers were continued an extra week. They also are going to give me my deal (I will post all the numbers as soon as I take delivery, don't want to jinx myself) and locate the car in the color/equipment combo I am looking for (G35x Platinum Graphite/Graphite with Premium, splash guards and cargo net). I was concerned that it was a last day of the month deal only, but they appear to be going forward with it.
thanks
gperr
When you contact dealers ask for the price of the car including destination and any dealer doc or prep fees. Ask if they have any dealer installed options on their cars.
Once you have the best price, something close to invoice when you include the fees and take off the customer cash, THEN you are ready to worry about the lease numbers.
By asking for lease prices you totally obscure the price of the car, which puts you firmly in the dealer's clutches.
You can't control the lease MF, IFS does but the dealer can mark it up if you don't watch them. The residual you can't control. The bank fee you can't control, but the dealer may try to mark that up too.
So what can you control? Where you buy your car (no markup on MF and bank fee and little or no doc fee), when you buy you car (buy when the rates are low and/or residuals are high) and how much you pay (your negotiated price).
Dennis
I left a voicemail for the salesman, but it was just before the dealership closed. I expect to hear back from him tomorrow. I plan on taking your advice and getting the sale price down before trying to get them to drop doc fees and the MF markup.
I'd be interested to see what you negotiate the selling price to be and how much you need to put down.
I am about to lease a 2008 g35x. i spoke to the dealer several times, he confirmed that the numbers will remain the same untill Jul 7th.
He offered me the following:
MSRP: $36500
Sale $: ?? - not willing to ne. over phone!
NY tax: 8.625%
Acq Fee: $795
Their Fee: $590 (am not gunan pay it!)
24mo/12000
MP- $369...
total Out of Pocket- $3500 (seems very high?)
at first eh offered me this monthly payment for on a 36mo/12k deal!!! - so in theory should i choose a 36 mo lease now should it not be lower than $369? thanks!!
i have good credit and wanted to know how to work these Out of Pocket fees down.
thnaks! :confuse:
I got a quote where a dealer in CT took the Cap Cost of the car and then added 6% for taxes to that number. Cap Cost was $38,301 and with taxes $2,316 and $299 Document Fee gave me a total Cap Cost of $40,916. The quoted me $555 for a 36 month 15 K lease, $0 down $0 walk out the door Fees. Residual = 62% MF= .00192.
I have never leased a car where they added the full tax of the car on to the Cap Cost. I have always had it added after the Depreciation and Finance Fees have been calculated.
When I calculated the numbers the way I have always leased cars i came up with a $507 a month including taxes. about $50 less a month.
Has anyone else ever had a lease like this.
For the 123st time, the first step in leasing is to negotiate the price of the car just as if you were paying cash. Once you have a nice low price, near invoice including the dealer's doc or prep fee, then you worry about applying that to the lease residual and money factor.
Dennis
NY tax: 8.625%
Acq Fee: $795
Their Fee: $590 (am not gunan pay it!)
Time to find another dealer. If they will not give me a price without me having to go onto the lot, then I don't go - I take my business elsewhere.
Also, the bank fee is $595 so they are marking it up $200 for extra profit and wanting nearly $600 for a doc fee. I would bet they mark up the lease MF as well.
Bad dealer, no biscuit
Dennis
So either they figured it right for where you live, or they have change the taxes in CT, or they just messed up.
Dennis
thanks!
Just closed the deal on my new G37!!!
So excited!
This is the Base model with no real options added on.
MSRP
35215
Sales Price
33353
Due at inception: $1800
595 Bank fee
180 Doc fee
429 First Months payment
~100 tax, title transfer, etc
just under $500 cap reduction
$429 / month
I think I might have been able to do slightly better, but I'm pretty happy with this deal.
Also, this was the only base G37 in about 200+ miles. Everything else was a sticker of 39K+
Once you have invoice, then there is a $350 customer cash for a lease deal ($1k on purchase) so a good price for the car, destination, and dealer fee would be $150 to $350 over invoice when you add everything up and take off the cash.
Dennis
Be sure to note the break in instructions in the owner's manual (no fun for 1,200 long miles).
Dennis
39 months
10,000 miles
residual 61%
$37,350 cap cost
$40,600 msrp includes premium package, navigation, wood trim, splash guards
$460 a month including 6% sales tax
mf .00172
An includes oil changes for as long as I own the car.
What was your MF?