I know you hate to give in. I have no idea if MB is making money. I would assume they are to stay in Business. If the news is correct ToyLex took are real hit when Japan dropped the subsidy this year.
And my second point. Where would Lexus be if not for the rebadged vehicles in their lineup. ES350 just a fancy Camry RX350 just a fancy Highlander GX460 just a fancy 4Runner LX570 just a fancy Landcruiser HS250h a cramped bloated over priced Prius
So where would Lexus be without the fancy Toyotas being sold to the USA. And if Lexus is an entity all to itself why does Toyota claim it in their numbers? They give their sales increases with Lexus as part of the numbers. So why is it OK for Toyota to include Lexus and not for BMW or MB to include their other members? If you want to make it just Luxury cars then don't include all the rebadged Toyotas. The numbers game is what got Toyota in trouble to start with. I guess you want to carry on the tradition.
But the C and E aren't frilled up versions of other cars, that was the point.
$218/month lease? I want to see evidence of that one.
New LS came around for MY 2007, right? So did the W221 S-class. In fact, I know that S-class was on the road by March of 06, even in NA.
5 powertrains, but 3 of them are extremely low volume. S550 has to be 90%+ of sales. I can't recall the last time I saw a W221 S600 or S65. The low volume cars do not make a 21% sales increase.
Remember, the MB prices are also drastically higher yet it still sells more, and in pretty much every other market where the cars are sold side by side (at closer prices too), the S absolutely kills the LS.
Hey, when I'm wrong, I'll be the first to admit it. Remember when I said you had a Tundra? Did I hesitate to apologize, even a bit?
When Mercedes publishes sales number I feel confident in going with those. I also trust Automotive News. I still stand by both 100%.
I realize platforms are shared, but the ES' engine gets direct injection (2GR-FSE) and the Camry does not. No body panels are shared. Sit in the ES' back seat - it's a limo compared to the Camry. The feel is totally different.
The RX doesn't share a single body panel with the Highlander, plus it's not even the same size. The GL is just as close to the ML and the price difference is much greater.
The GX is actually based on the Land Cruiser Prado, a model not sold in the USA. Did you know the 4Runner is now a V6 only, and the Lexus GX is V8 only? So no sharing of powertrains at all, they are completely different.
The HS is not based on the Prius chasis at all, and in fact does not even use the same powertrain as the Prius. The gas engine is nearly twice the displacement.
Sharing platforms is cost efficient, Mercedes does it too. The new Jeep Grand Cherokee has ML underpinnings, but that doesn't mean it's just a rebadged Mercedes. The 300C has the rear suspension and other bits from the previous E-class. The Chrysler Crossfire was MUCH closer to the Mercedes SLK than anyone would like to admit.
Those are just the examples that are at the top of my head, without doing any research. I'm sure there is much more sharing.
IMHO there is nothing wrong with that, everyone does it. You have to, to remain cost competitive. It spreads the costs around and allows Mercedes to offer more than $4000 in incentives per car sold.
$218/month lease? I want to see evidence of that one.
No dollar sign, 218 Euros, USD$300 equivalent, I converted to the currency used where the C-class is built and where M-B is based.
As for the S-class, think about how much it costs Mercedes to build all those variations. To their credit they use the same engines in probably half a dozen cars.
The only lease I can find close is the same as Lexus on a comparable priced model. What country would that lease be from? And why would it have anything to do with a US lease? Here is the official lease info for our market from MB. I would bet Lexus will try to match in their race for dominance of the so called luxury market.
Mercedes will use the new ‘LY’ platform for the 2010 E-Class, 2012 R-Class, and 2012 CLS-Class. The LY platform is widely expected to underpin the Dodge Challenger and Chrysler Imperial, as well as the next-generation Chrysler 300C, Dodge Magnum and Dodge Charger. Another common platform will be used for the post-2010 Jeep Grand Cherokee and Commander and well as the next Mercedes ML-Class, suppliers say.
Renault-Nissan and Daimler recently announced a strategic alliance
if Daimler and Renault-Nissan are truly serious about saving over $1 billion per year, these are exactly the kinds of parts-sharing agreements that will help them reach their cost-saving goals.
Sorry, the post I replied to had a dollar sign :shades:
Even $300 lease, after what initial cost? And what amount of MB sales are really made by this? You can probably get that in Europe, on a 4cyl cloth stick base car with no gadgetry.
OK, from both web sites, you can see very clearly that M-B is offering a LOT more incentives on their leases:
Benz C-class offer:
$38,350 MSRP, 27 month lease is $339 with $3379 due at signing.
Lexus IS offer:
$37,070 MSRP, 36 months, $389/month with $3839 due.
So the Benz has a shorter term, much lower payment, a little less down, and the car costs more to begin with. Same 4-star ALG residuals for both.
Mercedes is subsidizing that lease, big time. I doubt they're making money on those. Probably just taking a loss to welcome fresh owners to the brand. Good old fashioned dumping. :P
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sounds good until you factor in that they are base vehicle designs with a bunch of frosting on the top. A C-class is a C-class. an E-class an E-class. I am not a big Merc fan, but I see the difference.
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2011 Honda Ody - 4 days' inventory 2011 Chevy Cruze - 6 days 2011 Toyota Highlander - 6 days 2011 Toyota 4Runner - 6 days 2011 Honda CR-V - 7 days
Ody and Cruze are brand new so those numbers may appear a bit skewed. Highlander was refreshed, but the CR-V and 4Runner have been out for quite a while.
FWIW the consensus is that an ideal supply is roughly 60 days. Enough to have plentiful supply, without having piles of unsold vehicles on car lots.
I suspect he Highlander and 4Runner also have supply constraints for 2011 because there was a significant supply of 2010's leftover that they are still moving. My dealer in town has a bunch of each and scouring the cars.com site it appears to be the case all over the area.
Anyone know how many parts were shared among MB C350/E350/S350, or BMW 328/528/728? (yes don't be a NA toad...)? take a wild guess... MB/BMW/AUDI, every manufacturers managed by people with a brain does that
That's how manufacturers can have more profits, and they can lower the car prices for consumers, for crying out loud...
But the C and E aren't frilled up versions of other cars, that was the point.
What ever the heck that is. Sure hope Steve finds a house or a car or whatever pretty soon so he can spend some time getting this forum back on track... :sick:
North America. That hard to guess? they didn't bring S350 or 728 to US market, for a reason.
I went to grad school in midwest, students got all kinds beat down cars, plenty of Japanese or big-3 cars, few German made it. you think people in midwest are very well informed as to cars?
Dumb for whom? I would imagine this is an opportunity not to pass up. Nascar is the big bucks. No more eating in Carl's JR. It will make an opening for a young Rally driver at Subaru. Something goofy about driving a Camry at Nascar is all. SUA may work out well for him. :shades:
PS I think I would rather watch Rally cross than Nascar. Never been to either one. I enjoyed racing MotoX until I realized I was too old for that kind of bodily abuse.
Oh, I think any acceleration Pastrana does is very much intended. :shades:
I guess they're thinking he'll bring a younger fan base with him. Toyota is new(ish) to NASCAR and likely isn't as accepted as the Big 3, who have a history there.
I'm just not sure it's a good fit. He's more rally cross, X Games, gymkana style, not oval racing. It just seemed strange to me.
I guess I could see him drifting an FT-86, gymkana style, when that car is launched. That makes more sense.
I think most Nascar drivers started out in the other racing forms. Like everything else it comes down to MONEY. I personally do not see the draw to circle racing from a spectator standpoint. Maybe he hopes to eclipse into F1. Which to me is the ultimate car racing. Indy has been a joke since 1968.
Subaru's loss is Nascar racing's gain. I don't know why he could not race in several different genres. Many racers do that. Or used to.
Agreed - it's not like the rally America schedule is busy, and he's going part-time in NASCAR this year, too.
I like to watch Nitro Circus with my son so I hope they still do that show. There was one episode where they visited Joe Gibbs racing in NC and drove around in a couple of their NASCAR vehicles, but those were Chevys.
Still, I guess that turned out to be the first hint.
I don't see where Pastrana is going to be able to showcase his skills in NASCAR, so I think it is about the money, too. Can't blame him, although maybe endorsements could be the jackpot, too. Quicklt, looking the the picture of his NASCAR experience @Joe Gibbs, it was a 'Toyota'.
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Wattaya know, Gibbs switched, then. I don't follow NASCAR, but being a Redskins fan I remember his team winning the Daytona 500 in their first year in a Chevy.
I saw in one of the Detroit newspapers that there was just a recent Camry crash in Wendover, Utah with fatalities and supposedly it accelerated out of control despite having both recalls performed.
POLICE SUSPECT RUNAWAY CAMRY CAUSED CRASH THAT LEFT TWO DEAD November 15, 2010
(WENDOVER, UTAH) -- Police in Utah suspect some sort of problem with a Toyota Camry’s accelerator – or possibly a floor mat issue with the accelerator - caused a crash earlier this month that left two people dead and two others injured.
A report in the Salt Lake Tribune quotes Highway Patrol Sgt. Nathan Croft as saying 66-year-old Paul Vanalfen's 2008 Camry slammed into a rock wall in Wendover, Utah Nov. 5, killing him and 38-year-old Charlene Lloyd, his son's fiancée but that tire skid marks at the crash site indicated Vanalfen tried to stop the Camry as it exited Interstate 80.
Instead the car went through an intersection before hitting the wall. The report said Croft indicated the Camry's brakes appeared to be in working order.
Croft told a reporter the Vanalfen's Camry was subject to at least three recalls, one mandatory and two voluntary and the mandatory recall and repair, for a sticking accelerator, had been completed.
I read a story with a quote from the police officer who seemed confident it was the throttle pedal, so I was wondering if the recalls had been performed.
Also, the Camry in question was subject to 3 recalls, not 2. If you read that 2 recalls were done, that means one was not done.
Let's get the facts before jumping to more conclusions...
tire skid marks at the crash site indicated Vanalfen tried to stop the Camry
Not aiming this at you, Gary, but rather at the media...
With ABS this could be a bad assumption by the media.
That Camry has ABS, so I would not automatically conclude that was from braking. To me it seems more likely to have come from excessive cornering forces, which even the best stability control systems cannot overcome.
I'm looking for the link with the quote from the officer.
Edit: follow up question - how would officer Croft have known the recall had been performed? It says so in the article, but how did he verify that?
I posted a link the other day in the Unattended Acceleration discussion with this quote that you may have seen:
"Based on statements from witnesses and statements from those that survived the crash inside the car, (the investigator is) led to believe that the pedal was stuck," Utah Highway Patrol Trooper Todd Johnson said."
"The Utah Highway Patrol believes, based on witness statements and examination of the vehicle, that the accident was caused by a stuck accelerator pedal," said Utah Highway Patrol Trooper Todd Johnson about the accident investigation.
Utah investigators did not immediately know whether Van Alfen complied with the first two recalls.
Johnson said investigators believe Van Alfen had taken his car into the dealership to address the latest recall notice.
Camrys from the 2007-10 model years covered by the second floor mat entrapment recall were supposed to receive a brake override system. The system was designed to cut engine power when a driver is applying both the brakes and the accelerator pedal together.
It wasn't immediately clear if the Camry in the Utah crash was equipped with the system.
More questions than answers right now, unfortunately.
Thanks, Steve, found it while you were writing that. Looks like the same story, weird. Syndication?
Any how, they have the VIN, I'm sure we'll here more soon about whether any of the 3 recalls were performed.
Also, this car did not burn, like Saylor's Lexus, so investigators have plenty of evidence to inspect.
The family should also have receipts for the visits to their Toyota dealer to perform those recalls (I got a two-page receipt for my Sienna even when they did nothing besides inspect it).
I thought we were told those problems were all over and they were imaginary to begin with.
That's really sad that more people have had to die.
I note the office said skid marks indicated the driver had tried to stop. In some previous problems, which were credited to only sticky pedal or extra mats, the people were unable to generate enough braking effect to try to slow the car. Apparently, based only on the officer's unprofessional assessment, the brakes worked.
Why would toyota only have done 2 of the recalls if there were 3 applicable to the vehicle. Is there a recent one since the sticky pedal replacement recall?
I saw this story at work. The 3 recalls are the early one for interference with the gas pedal from original-design all-weather floor mats, the second one for mat interference in general, and the third for the CTS-supplied "sticky" pedal. The second recall includes installation of the brake pedal override.
Why only the sticky pedal recall was performed, and how this is even known at this point, is a mystery to me.
What we do know is that the incident occurred on an exit ramp for I-80 in Utah near the Nevada line. Presumably the speed limit is 75 mph there. I have no idea how short or long the exit ramp is and whether it slopes uphill, downhill, or not at all. We do know that the ramp ends at a stop sign and a rock wall across the intersecting road.
The driver was 66 years old, starting to get up in the elderly range. We don't really know if he hit the gas, brakes, or both. Lurid skid marks are not typically left for cars with antilock brakes, which have been standard on the Camry since 2005.
So until the "black box" data are investigated, I think it's premature to come to conclusions as to whether the car, driver, or road design was primarily to blame.
with that area of Interstate 80, however, I live in Elko, NV, right on I-80, about 130 miles west into Nevada. I will be inspecting that whole West Wendover area of the Utah-Nevada line in Feb.'11. That is when Blue Oyster Cult opens up for Foghat at the Peppermill Concert Hall at Wendover. Scary incident, let's find out more about it so it's not such a mystery.
I read the officer thinks those were performed, but that wasn't confirmed. And were all 3 recalls done, or just 2?
The dates are also important. If it was brought in after the 3rd recall, the dealer should have performed all 3 recalls. The date of the service is crucial information.
Looks like about 3 million out of the 5.4 from the first series (November 09, right?), and 1.85 out of the 2.3 million for the pedal recall from January 2010.
To all toyota fans and potential buyers, all I can say is, remember the old wise saying : Fool me once, shame on YOU. Fool me TWICE, shame on ME ! "
You have been warned, and you already know what kind of people you are dealing with, and if again another case happens, this time to YOU, you have only yourself to blame.
Don't even blame toyota, because all their tricks and behaviours have been exposed, especially here on this forum.
Its like you borrow money from a loanshark. When the time comes to pay and you complain to your relatives about the high interests, what do you think they will say ? " Who ASK you to borrow from LOANSHARKS, you FOOL ? "
Comments
And my second point. Where would Lexus be if not for the rebadged vehicles in their lineup.
ES350 just a fancy Camry
RX350 just a fancy Highlander
GX460 just a fancy 4Runner
LX570 just a fancy Landcruiser
HS250h a cramped bloated over priced Prius
So where would Lexus be without the fancy Toyotas being sold to the USA. And if Lexus is an entity all to itself why does Toyota claim it in their numbers? They give their sales increases with Lexus as part of the numbers. So why is it OK for Toyota to include Lexus and not for BMW or MB to include their other members? If you want to make it just Luxury cars then don't include all the rebadged Toyotas. The numbers game is what got Toyota in trouble to start with. I guess you want to carry on the tradition.
http://pressroom.toyota.com/pr/tms/document/October_PR_Sales_Chart.pdf
$218/month lease? I want to see evidence of that one.
New LS came around for MY 2007, right? So did the W221 S-class. In fact, I know that S-class was on the road by March of 06, even in NA.
5 powertrains, but 3 of them are extremely low volume. S550 has to be 90%+ of sales. I can't recall the last time I saw a W221 S600 or S65. The low volume cars do not make a 21% sales increase.
Remember, the MB prices are also drastically higher yet it still sells more, and in pretty much every other market where the cars are sold side by side (at closer prices too), the S absolutely kills the LS.
Hey, when I'm wrong, I'll be the first to admit it. Remember when I said you had a Tundra? Did I hesitate to apologize, even a bit?
When Mercedes publishes sales number I feel confident in going with those. I also trust Automotive News. I still stand by both 100%.
I realize platforms are shared, but the ES' engine gets direct injection (2GR-FSE) and the Camry does not. No body panels are shared. Sit in the ES' back seat - it's a limo compared to the Camry. The feel is totally different.
The RX doesn't share a single body panel with the Highlander, plus it's not even the same size. The GL is just as close to the ML and the price difference is much greater.
The GX is actually based on the Land Cruiser Prado, a model not sold in the USA. Did you know the 4Runner is now a V6 only, and the Lexus GX is V8 only? So no sharing of powertrains at all, they are completely different.
The HS is not based on the Prius chasis at all, and in fact does not even use the same powertrain as the Prius. The gas engine is nearly twice the displacement.
Sharing platforms is cost efficient, Mercedes does it too. The new Jeep Grand Cherokee has ML underpinnings, but that doesn't mean it's just a rebadged Mercedes. The 300C has the rear suspension and other bits from the previous E-class. The Chrysler Crossfire was MUCH closer to the Mercedes SLK than anyone would like to admit.
Those are just the examples that are at the top of my head, without doing any research. I'm sure there is much more sharing.
IMHO there is nothing wrong with that, everyone does it. You have to, to remain cost competitive. It spreads the costs around and allows Mercedes to offer more than $4000 in incentives per car sold.
No dollar sign, 218 Euros, USD$300 equivalent, I converted to the currency used where the C-class is built and where M-B is based.
As for the S-class, think about how much it costs Mercedes to build all those variations. To their credit they use the same engines in probably half a dozen cars.
http://www.mbusa.com/mercedes/special_offers/current?WT.srch=1&WT.mc_id=7760305&- iq_id=7760305&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=7760305-mercedes%2Blease- s
Mercedes will use the new ‘LY’ platform for the 2010 E-Class, 2012 R-Class, and 2012 CLS-Class. The LY platform is widely expected to underpin the Dodge Challenger and Chrysler Imperial, as well as the next-generation Chrysler 300C, Dodge Magnum and Dodge Charger. Another common platform will be used for the post-2010 Jeep Grand Cherokee and Commander and well as the next Mercedes ML-Class, suppliers say.
That's more than I thought...much more.
http://www.autoblog.com/2010/05/26/report-next-infiniti-m-and-g-to-share-platfor- m-with-mercedes-be/
Renault-Nissan and Daimler recently announced a strategic alliance
if Daimler and Renault-Nissan are truly serious about saving over $1 billion per year, these are exactly the kinds of parts-sharing agreements that will help them reach their cost-saving goals.
http://knowledge.asb.unsw.edu.au/article.cfm?articleid=1266
The small Mercedes A- and B-Class vehicles will share platforms with Renault’s Clio and Megane
Have you driven a Clio? Yikes.
A-Class may become an Infiniti DX also:
http://rumors.automobilemag.com/6671328/news/infiniti-may-build-european-crossov- er-on-mercedes-benz-a-class-platform/index.html
Note: there is nothing wrong with any of this, in fact it's probably necessary to remain competitive.
The original amount came from that editorial in AN, so it would be for the USA.
Even $300 lease, after what initial cost? And what amount of MB sales are really made by this? You can probably get that in Europe, on a 4cyl cloth stick base car with no gadgetry.
M-B home page has a short, 27-month lease at USD$339. Given the depreciation curve flattens out, a longer-term lease would have a lower payment.
Edit: that's for a model with a $38,350 MSRP. At the $33.9k base cost you could get one for about 12% less right there.
We're already at USD$298.
Benz C-class offer:
$38,350 MSRP, 27 month lease is $339 with $3379 due at signing.
Lexus IS offer:
$37,070 MSRP, 36 months, $389/month with $3839 due.
So the Benz has a shorter term, much lower payment, a little less down, and the car costs more to begin with. Same 4-star ALG residuals for both.
Mercedes is subsidizing that lease, big time. I doubt they're making money on those. Probably just taking a loss to welcome fresh owners to the brand. Good old fashioned dumping. :P
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A C-class is a C-class. an E-class an E-class.
I am not a big Merc fan, but I see the difference.
http://www.thecarconnection.com/marty-blog/1050819_five-vehicles-in-high-demand
2011 Honda Ody - 4 days' inventory
2011 Chevy Cruze - 6 days
2011 Toyota Highlander - 6 days
2011 Toyota 4Runner - 6 days
2011 Honda CR-V - 7 days
Ody and Cruze are brand new so those numbers may appear a bit skewed. Highlander was refreshed, but the CR-V and 4Runner have been out for quite a while.
FWIW the consensus is that an ideal supply is roughly 60 days. Enough to have plentiful supply, without having piles of unsold vehicles on car lots.
link title
I suspect he Highlander and 4Runner also have supply constraints for 2011 because there was a significant supply of 2010's leftover that they are still moving. My dealer in town has a bunch of each and scouring the cars.com site it appears to be the case all over the area.
Anyone know how many parts were shared among MB C350/E350/S350, or BMW 328/528/728? (yes don't be a NA toad...)? take a wild guess... MB/BMW/AUDI, every manufacturers managed by people with a brain does that
That's how manufacturers can have more profits, and they can lower the car prices for consumers, for crying out loud...
But the C and E aren't frilled up versions of other cars, that was the point.
The E is not a frilled up Charger, but the Charger (sort of) is a de-contented E.
What ever the heck that is. Sure hope Steve finds a house or a car or whatever pretty soon so he can spend some time getting this forum back on track... :sick:
I did find a house. In the Midwest. I haven't seen a Toyota for weeks. :P
I went to grad school in midwest, students got all kinds beat down cars, plenty of Japanese or big-3 cars, few German made it. you think people in midwest are very well informed as to cars?
N. A. for North American
NA for Normally Aspirated
n/a for not available
Useless trivia of the day: Princess Diana died in an S280.
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Keep in mind Toyota owns a % of Subaru, why take Pastrana away from a growing, successful brand?
And to race in NASCAR? They guy's already cracking jokes about not turning right. No way will he fit in.
First Ken Block defects to Ford, now this. I feel bad for Subaru.
I think I would rather watch Rally cross than Nascar. Never been to either one. I enjoyed racing MotoX until I realized I was too old for that kind of bodily abuse.
I guess they're thinking he'll bring a younger fan base with him. Toyota is new(ish) to NASCAR and likely isn't as accepted as the Big 3, who have a history there.
I'm just not sure it's a good fit. He's more rally cross, X Games, gymkana style, not oval racing. It just seemed strange to me.
I guess I could see him drifting an FT-86, gymkana style, when that car is launched. That makes more sense.
Subaru's loss is Nascar racing's gain. I don't know why he could not race in several different genres. Many racers do that. Or used to.
I like to watch Nitro Circus with my son so I hope they still do that show. There was one episode where they visited Joe Gibbs racing in NC and drove around in a couple of their NASCAR vehicles, but those were Chevys.
Still, I guess that turned out to be the first hint.
Can't blame him, although maybe endorsements could be the jackpot, too.
Quicklt, looking the the picture of his NASCAR experience @Joe Gibbs, it was a 'Toyota'.
LEFT TWO DEAD
November 15, 2010
(WENDOVER, UTAH) -- Police in Utah suspect some sort of problem with a Toyota Camry’s accelerator – or possibly a floor mat issue with the accelerator - caused a crash earlier this month that left two people dead and two others injured.
A report in the Salt Lake Tribune quotes Highway Patrol Sgt. Nathan Croft as saying 66-year-old Paul Vanalfen's 2008 Camry slammed into a rock wall in Wendover, Utah Nov. 5, killing him and 38-year-old Charlene Lloyd, his son's fiancée but that tire skid marks at the crash site indicated Vanalfen tried to stop the Camry as it exited Interstate 80.
Instead the car went through an intersection before hitting the wall. The report said Croft indicated the Camry's brakes appeared to be in working order.
Croft told a reporter the Vanalfen's Camry was subject to at least three recalls, one mandatory and two voluntary and the mandatory recall and repair, for a sticking accelerator, had been completed.
http://www.skyvalleychronicle.com/FEATURE-NEWS/POLICE-SUSPECT-RUNAWAY-CAMRY-CAUS- ED-CRASH-THAT-LEFT-TWO-DEAD-518842
Where did you read that?
I read a story with a quote from the police officer who seemed confident it was the throttle pedal, so I was wondering if the recalls had been performed.
Also, the Camry in question was subject to 3 recalls, not 2. If you read that 2 recalls were done, that means one was not done.
Let's get the facts before jumping to more conclusions...
Not aiming this at you, Gary, but rather at the media...
With ABS this could be a bad assumption by the media.
That Camry has ABS, so I would not automatically conclude that was from braking. To me it seems more likely to have come from excessive cornering forces, which even the best stability control systems cannot overcome.
I'm looking for the link with the quote from the officer.
Edit: follow up question - how would officer Croft have known the recall had been performed? It says so in the article, but how did he verify that?
"Based on statements from witnesses and statements from those that survived the crash inside the car, (the investigator is) led to believe that the pedal was stuck," Utah Highway Patrol Trooper Todd Johnson said."
Fresno Bee
"The Utah Highway Patrol believes, based on witness statements and examination of the vehicle, that the accident was caused by a stuck accelerator pedal," said Utah Highway Patrol Trooper Todd Johnson about the accident investigation.
Utah investigators did not immediately know whether Van Alfen complied with the first two recalls.
Johnson said investigators believe Van Alfen had taken his car into the dealership to address the latest recall notice.
Camrys from the 2007-10 model years covered by the second floor mat entrapment recall were supposed to receive a brake override system. The system was designed to cut engine power when a driver is applying both the brakes and the accelerator pedal together.
It wasn't immediately clear if the Camry in the Utah crash was equipped with the system.
More questions than answers right now, unfortunately.
Any how, they have the VIN, I'm sure we'll here more soon about whether any of the 3 recalls were performed.
Also, this car did not burn, like Saylor's Lexus, so investigators have plenty of evidence to inspect.
The family should also have receipts for the visits to their Toyota dealer to perform those recalls (I got a two-page receipt for my Sienna even when they did nothing besides inspect it).
We should know more soon.
That's really sad that more people have had to die.
I note the office said skid marks indicated the driver had tried to stop. In some previous problems, which were credited to only sticky pedal or extra mats, the people were unable to generate enough braking effect to try to slow the car. Apparently, based only on the officer's unprofessional assessment, the brakes worked.
Why would toyota only have done 2 of the recalls if there were 3 applicable to the vehicle. Is there a recent one since the sticky pedal replacement recall?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Why only the sticky pedal recall was performed, and how this is even known at this point, is a mystery to me.
What we do know is that the incident occurred on an exit ramp for I-80 in Utah near the Nevada line. Presumably the speed limit is 75 mph there. I have no idea how short or long the exit ramp is and whether it slopes uphill, downhill, or not at all. We do know that the ramp ends at a stop sign and a rock wall across the intersecting road.
The driver was 66 years old, starting to get up in the elderly range. We don't really know if he hit the gas, brakes, or both. Lurid skid marks are not typically left for cars with antilock brakes, which have been standard on the Camry since 2005.
So until the "black box" data are investigated, I think it's premature to come to conclusions as to whether the car, driver, or road design was primarily to blame.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
I wouldn't be driving a toyota while inspecting...
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Not so - they recalled the throttle pedals, remember? That acknowledges the sticky pedals.
I still don't get how braking caused the skid marks with ABS. Let's see what the investigators find.
Do we know that for a fact?
I read the officer thinks those were performed, but that wasn't confirmed. And were all 3 recalls done, or just 2?
The dates are also important. If it was brought in after the 3rd recall, the dealer should have performed all 3 recalls. The date of the service is crucial information.
Looks like about 3 million out of the 5.4 from the first series (November 09, right?), and 1.85 out of the 2.3 million for the pedal recall from January 2010.
Let's see which ones this Camry had performed.
Perhaps they were trying to corner a turn at more than 0.3g. You know Toyotas aren't known for their handling. :P
Sienna really surprises in this comparo:
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/minivans-vans/1012_2011_toyota_sienna_se_vs_- - - 2011_honda_odyssey_ex_l_vs_2010_dodge_caravan_sxt_comparison/specs.html
Most grip and best handling on their figure 8 loop. Subjectively it also had the best steering.
Dodge needs to hurry the Penastar V6 to be competitive in a segment they invented!
http://www.scpr.org/news/2010/04/11/toyota-cases-evasion-becomes-tactic/
http://www.scpr.org/news/2010/10/28/new-claims-made-against-toyota-defects-case/-
http://www.dailyfinance.com/story/toyota/judge-refuses-to-toss-toyota-unintended- -acceleration-lawsuits/19725472/
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-11-19/toyota-speed-up-cases-won-t-be-dismi- ssed-judge-says.html
To all toyota fans and potential buyers, all I can say is, remember the old wise saying : Fool me once, shame on YOU. Fool me TWICE, shame on ME ! "
You have been warned, and you already know what kind of people you are dealing with, and if again another case happens, this time to YOU, you have only yourself to blame.
Don't even blame toyota, because all their tricks and behaviours have been exposed, especially here on this forum.
Its like you borrow money from a loanshark. When the time comes to pay and you complain to your relatives about the high interests, what do you think they will say ? " Who ASK you to borrow from LOANSHARKS, you FOOL ? "