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Toyota on the mend?

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Comments

  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    I gotta agree with Steve on the 3-way CFC bulbs.

    I have several in my house as replacements for the incandescent 3-ways.

    But, I did do exactly what you suggested by buying 2 cases of clear 60 Watt bulbs for existing fixtures that just look wierd with CFC bulbs.

    It won't last forever, but I'm hoping that I'll be de-sensitized by the time the last one burns out....LOL!
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    edited January 2011
    She's cute. The van deserves a term I cannot use as it is not politically correct. I can see the driver wearing a hat with a bit feather.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I tend to agree that the disposal issue is the 800 lb gorilla in the living room

    Not an issue at all with NiMH batteries. You could bury the whole battery pack under a raised bed garden and it would never do harm to the environment.

    You can't say the same about the lead acid battery in your car, which is basically a HAZMAT and needs to be handled with care.

    Nickel Metal Hydride are totally harmless. The only loss would be opportunity cost - Toyota pays $400 for a used battery pack. Do you really think they will sit there in junk yards recycling centers unclaimed?

    I'm not sure about Lithium Ion and the newer Lithium Polymers, but I doubt any other battery is as bad for the environment as a lead-acid. Merely touching them without gloves is hazardous.

    Actually we should replace ALL lead-acid batteries with NiMH, the only problem is cost.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    I'll have to look closer, but last I saw awhile ago I couldn't find a 3 way going beyond 100W equivalent. I like a 150 top setting for reading. Maybe that's changed now, but $10 for a bulb - I think the old fashion 3 ways are something like a buck and a quarter each in 3 packs. I think it will be hard to come out ahead at that difference. I also think EPA rules not withstanding, most of these CFC will end up in landfills. As for vehicles, I'm also doubtful that hybrids and electrics will end up cost effective over 6 or 7 years of ownership (and wouldn't want to own one after the battery warranty expires). Maybe under ideal weather conditions, but in most areas you won't get the EPA numbers and even at $5 gas I doubt you'll recoup the vehicle price premium. Hopefully there will be big strides and efficiencies that will lower the cost premium in the future.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    edited January 2011
    The History Channel had a show on a while back.... Modern Marvels, dealing with lead.

    According to the show, lead rivals gold as the most re-cycled metal is use today. Overall, at $5 core charges per battery, there is enough residual value in lead-acid batteries to keep most of them from the landfill.

    Regarding Lithum batteries, I'm no chemist, but a co-worker who has a relative in the automotive-battery manufacturing business once told me his company wasn't interested in making lithium batteries for autos, due to the liability constraints relating to the disposal issues.

    He may have been full of hot air, but there may be something to it. I may do a little reading on the issue to find out more.

    http://www.technologyreview.com/energy/23215/
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'm more worried about the acid than I am about the lead.

    Prius' NiMH batteries are safer.

    Sound like Li-ion has its own set of concerns. To be fair, Toyota has so far held off on implementing those, though GM will with the Volt.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    http://www.autoblog.com/2011/01/18/report-dana-coughs-up-25m-to-toyota-over-rust- y-tacoma-frames/

    They pull no punches:

    When an automaker is forced to issue a recall, the defective part or feature is generally the fault of the automaker or of an OEM supplier it contracted to. In the case of the Toyota Tacoma – part of a 110,000-unit recall in 2009 – the problem appears to have been traced back to the supplier. And now the supplier is forced to pay for its mistakes.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    That seems reasonable.

    In the medical field, the source that produces the potential contaminant is the one ultimately responsible for its proper disposal, so it seems to me that, unless the fault lies within the way a part is misued in its application, the originator of the part should be held liable.

    Dana certainly knew the frames would be exposed to road-salts and other agents that cause rust, and unless they can produce some documentation clearly stating the end user (Toyota) gave them clear instructions on exactly how to manufacture the item (orders to disregard that issue)....then, they should be the ones to pay for its remedy.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    http://www.autoblog.com/2011/01/18/tas-2011-toyota-concept-is-the-ft-86s-little-- sister/

    Funky headlights, but the sub 2000 lbs curb weight sounds nice...
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    edited January 2011
    I don't think the acid is such a big issue...Scan the link below and I think you may agree...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfuric_acid

    From the link...

    Sulfuric acid is used in large quantities by the iron and steelmaking industry to remove oxidation, rust and scale from rolled sheet and billets prior to sale to the automobile and white goods (appliances) industry. Used acid is often recycled using a Spent Acid Regeneration (SAR) plant. These plants combust spent acid with natural gas, refinery gas, fuel oil or other fuel sources. This combustion process produces gaseous sulfur dioxide (SO2) and sulfur trioxide (SO3) which are then used to manufacture "new" sulfuric acid. SAR plants are common additions to metal smelting plants, oil refineries, and other industries where sulfuric acid is consumed in bulk, as operating a SAR plant is much cheaper than the recurring costs of spent acid disposal and new acid purchases
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    For those that think Toyota is the only one with lemons, here is a picture of one of my trees.

    image
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    Now, that is truly a "picture-perfect" looking lemon tree.

    Going off-topic for a second, what do you do with the fruit? Moreso, what do you use to fertilize thet thing?!?

    Lemonade, anyone???
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    When properly recycled, sure.

    But a $5 core charge isn't exactly going to make everyone run out and yank batteries out of those old cars in rural pastures. If not, eventually the battery could fall on its side and the acid would pour on the ground and contaminate the local well water.

    Remember - Toyota's core charge for the Prius is a few hundred bucks! Not too many of those will be missed!

    Pic for inspiration:

    image
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Gary: my guess is you have something a bit more organic that old NiMH batteries under your soil. LOL

    Looks great, wow! Make lemonade!
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    edited January 2011
    We give most of our fruit to friends and family. We do squeeze a lot of lemons and freeze them in ice cube trays then store in zip lock bags to use later.

    I use granular citrus fertilizer. And water with Miracle Grow.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'm surprised they are in season, I heard on the radio the other day that 70% of the USA was snow-covered.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    In cold climates, an abandoned lead acid battery will freeze and pop its plastic case. So it doesn't even have to fall over to spill its contents once warmer temps return.

    Too bad about those shotgun holes in that door eh? I'm sure someone somewhere restoring one of those would have liked to have it unadultered.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    This is the season for citrus and avocados in So CA. It was 81 yesterday. Only about 75 today. We are finally getting the weather we pay big taxes to enjoy in the Winter. I can see snow on the mountains above 7000 ft.

    I better go check for batteries in those old cars in that field next to us. They were probably dumped there 50 years ago. I don't think it is a Toyota, not enough rust. :P

    image
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    Great shot!

    "Miracle Grow" always strikes me as one of the most appropriately named products on the planet.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,404
    Looks like a new version of a Lancia Fulvia
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,404
    The car is a ~1950 Mopar product, the bodies on those are known to be very durable. It'd survive another 60 years no problem.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    The car is a ~1950 Mopar product, the bodies on those are known to be very durable. It'd survive another 60 years no problem.

    I agree with the durability statement. In the late 1980's I restored a 1941 Dodge Luxury Liner Business Coupe. When I removed the interior fire-wall insulation pad, the unpainted steel behind it was still as shiny as the day the car was made.

    If I hadn't seen it myself, I would not have believed it at all...
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    I never meant to suggest there would be NO batteries left in the environment....No recycling effort is 100% efficient... But, the good thing about battery acid is that it easily dilutes into a non-toxic level simply by adding water. Probably far more contamination in rural areas has come from old tractors leaking oil into the soil than has come from car batteries, IMO.

    Still, I'm 56 now, and during my lifetime I have seen the steady decrease of old cars just sitting abandoned in old fields, as well as in junkyards.

    Shoot... Even junkyards are totally different nowadays. When I was in high school, it wasn't uncommon at all for a kid to find a 55-57 Chevy or Ford in a junk yard, tow it home, and then bring it back to life by obtaining used parts personally collected by the owner from frequent junkyard visits. Most of the 55-56 Chevy's were all painted some tint of metallic blue, and my dad used to make jokes about the kid having more money in the paint job alone than the rest of the car.

    I think he was probably correct in his assessment.

    Nothing like that happens now, except in extremely rare cases.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    edited January 2011
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Did you see in today's (Wed) WSJ that California is finding these CFC bulbs aren't lasting nearly as long as they were projected to? Plus they seem to be negatively affected by humidity, on off cycles, etc. Another oversold green weenie concept like corn ethanol perhaps? I still can't get over ten bucks for a lamp lightbulb. I wonder how much lobbyist payola got Congress to make this move? ...and of course we consumers are yet again stuck with the bill!
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    edited January 2011
    FWIW, I made a great discovery regarding CFC's. I had one near my arm for years where my PC was. I started getting (what I thought was a tendonitis type) pain from mousing and typing. But I was seeing a specialist Doc and in conversation I asked him about this CFC light cuz I had seen a documentary claiming how harmful the electrical energy that surrounds them when they are on.He confirmed it. He was very adamant. So of course i went home with one of the easiest missions I'd ever been on. To replace that darn light with an old incandescent like what I had before.
    While very skeptical (to be honest) I actually couldn't deny that my arm was noticeably better in less than 2 weeks. After 3 weeks it was even better still! And after 4 weeks I simply wrote off any chance of it being a coincidence. Now over 2 months later I am pain free in that arm, even though I have been typing like a wild man lately.

    YMMV, but i sure wish someone had told me this back before I bought any of them.
    Now factor in the recycling issues, and remind me again the dollar equivalent of their so-called advantage? Even the electric companies here in Cda were sponsored by gvt to offer rebates to switch over. Anything to save a kilowatt. ANYTHING.

    As I age, I am learning that if gvt is promoting something with rebates and tax breaks etc, that causes my caution flags to wisp more than an actual breeze.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,404
    Those were the "Briggs" bodies, at least on the 49-51 models which seem to have survived in good numbers. Good old fashioned American durability.
  • ben66ben66 Member Posts: 243
    edited January 2011
    With all the things toyota had done, I am truly surprised that you trust toyota more than Biller. What makes you think toyota is any more trustworthy than Biller or any lawyer ?

    The fact has been proven. toyota has lied, suppressed, bought off people and organizations many times, and not just in the US but around the world.

    I stay put in my opinion that toyota has worked with the courts to squash Biller and cover up the truth. It has happened several times and this will not be the last.

    You can say Biller is greedy or what, but toyota is even WORSE ! Think about it, they have billions already but yet they still play with recall agendas to save money (remember the " Wins for toyota " secret document ?)

    And they fought the small change due to the widow of the deceased overworked toyota Japanese employee remember ?

    Who is more greedy ? You tell me ?

    For those who have not seen the document, here is it :

    http://download.gannett.edgesuite.net/detnews/2010/pdf/0220toyota.pdf

    Seeing is believing. Say what you want abt Biller.
  • ben66ben66 Member Posts: 243
    BOGUS ? What are you talking about ? My sources are taken from OFFICIAL UNITED STATES media interviews, unless you want to say that US television networks all broadcast FAKE NEWS ? Played by fake actors ?

    And those toyota wrecks are taken from the scrap yard to rig the show ?

    Prove to me which one of my sources is BOGUS.
  • ben66ben66 Member Posts: 243
    Oh yes, even the aliens will SHAKE their heads in disbelieve at the things toyota did...

    Pray that when they invade earth one day, independence day style, they will be less ruthless and cunning than toyota !
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    edited January 2011
    unless you want to say that US television networks all broadcast FAKE NEWS ? Played by fake actors ?

    Don't put us on the spot. I would not trust a single thing the Main Stream Media broadcasts. All lies, even the weather report. You just have to research yourself. It would seem you have and don't like Toyota. Well I have held a grudge against them due to the problems I had with my 1964 Toyota Land cruiser. It was always getting stuck on vacation trips. I do wish I had it now. It would be worth about 10 times what I paid for it new in 1964.

    image

    PS
    I was on assignment for 4X4 and Dune Buggy News. The editor got a real kick out of me being stuck. This was the famous Tierra del Sol run of 1965
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    In Brazil, where auto sales jumped 11% to hit a record sales last year for the third straight year, Toyota sold 46,000 vehicles in the January-June period, up 9% on year. However, the Japanese auto maker still only has a tiny 3% share of the market compared with rivals such as Fiat which boasts a leading 20% share.

    The reason I bring this up is the news today is interest rates in Brazil have been raised to 11.25%. The Brazilian Real has gained 100% over the dollar in the last 8 years. Sounds like a robust economy to me. Probably smart that Toyota is building a second factory in Brazil. Will it be on the same scale as the state of the art Ford plant? Ford is currently in 4th place with 12.5% of the Brazil market.

    It seems Fiat and VW have placed them selves well in emerging markets, while Toyota plays catch up. The US and Japan are diminishing markets, China, India, Brazil, etc are growing.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Those were those awesome Briggs bodies once used on Mopar products. A friend's grandfather had a junkyard full of those cars in the late 1980s. Some of those cars had been sitting there since the 1950s and 1960s judging by the old inspection stickers and oil change decals. Not one of them was a rusted out hulk despite some of them sitting on the ground for decades.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I knew a guy who had a 1980 model Land Cruiser. They didn't change very much. They were once an interesting Jeep-like vehicle until they mutated into a plush conveyance for wealthy Stepford soccer-mommies.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    I had an 82 Wagon with the NA 3.4 4 cyl and 4 speed tranny..no OD. The engine was wonderful. Just a wonderful motor. Powerful, fuel efficient, smooth and had longevity. Unfortunately the bodies rusted badly. I wish I had bought mine new instead of it already having been bondo'd from rocker panels to the roof.
    I would have oiled it every year. There is an 84 in the area. Wagon. I think they were 5 speeds then. He oils it every year as it seems to be fairing well. There is something very cool about seeing the same very rare sight of him and his family on the same road as I am for about 20 years with him in the same daily driver.
    I had a chance to buy an 87 six, but it was a 4 speed auto, so i passed. I never regretted that decision. I did go for a drive with him on a hwy trip in the winter though as he had to run an errand. We checked his mileage. It was thirstier than I would have guessed given the 55 mph cruise. It did 24.9 if memory serves. So 20 mpUSg. They were big heavy vehicles and the six made it that much heavier.

    The 82 i bought I had actually 'settled' for cuz I kept missing out them in the past. Originally i had a line on an 84 like yours, with the 3.4, 5 speed std and was in wonderful shape. The problem was tho, he raised his first asking price 3500 bucks when he found out they were sought after. I was preparing to buy it on the Monday when I could access the bank, but over the w/e he discovered it didn't depreciate as fast as he had thought. So i said no thanks. I did offer him a thousand more dollars though as I had been looking for ages, but he declined. He put a for sale sign on it and it sat and sat and sat! I guess I should have popped in and shown my face again, but was perturbed by his sales practice. Eventually he sold it, (or dealt it?) in which case the dealer would have been the one who won out out.

    So then a year later I had a line on an 83 Wagon down in the city. I called, sounded good (it needed a fr U joint that was a bad wobbler when engaged) but when I got there I had only just started to look it over in the garage and another guy shows up. The owner was not there, just his son. They had oiled it since new and you could tell. I basically wanted it, but we had decided to go for a drive. The son, me and the 2nd guy who showed up. The reason I didn't say I'd take it was cuz we had not driven it yet anywhere. Well 10 minutes in to the drive (the other guy practically pushed me out of the way to get behind the wheel first) he said "I take it". And the son never gave me first dibs. It pissed me off I tell ya. The son didn't know what to do and said so, and i said to him that the first person to arrive should get first dibs, but he said his Dad said to sell to the first one with the money. Well neither of us had the entire amt to pay it out on the spot, so I said well i'll give you a dep now and buy it the next day at the bank. But he squirmed and wiggled and said he had already said ok to the 2nd guy. So #2 LC failure.

    That is why I say I settled when i bought the rust bucket 82.
    And while the six drove nice, it was a thirstier than what I wanted (my 82 got 30mpg! even with a direct gear tranny) and of course it was the auto, so i decided I was not going to settle any more. So of course during that time they only became more rare and more rusty, so I never did find one. Toyota had abondoned the diesel in 88, and had gas guzzling inline sixes. Earlier they had abandoned that wonder 4 cyl in 86 I think it was. So they became rarer and rarer. It actually got very ridiculous, lol. I recall a couple years later doing a random search in the states without salt and asking prices were almost as much as they were when the trucks were new! But with 'some rust' and 250k miles! ! I figured the cults took over so let 'em have 'em at that kinda money..
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    Don't put us on the spot. I would not trust a single thing the Main Stream Media broadcasts. All lies, even the weather report. You just have to research yourself.

    I wouldn't say its ALL lies, but if one needs to confirm how suspect the news can be, simply Google "Bush+Dan Rather+CBS News+National Guard Service".

    It would seem you have and don't like Toyota.

    Ya think???
  • delthekingdeltheking Member Posts: 1,152
    Toyota has agreed to settle a class action lawsuit over headlights in its 2006 and 2009 Prius models. :P
    All owners will get free headlight replacement + warranty extension. :shades:

    http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-0120-toyota-prius-20110120,0,6131579.story-
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    edited January 2011
    From your link...

    A review of the NHTSA database shows that 49% of all complaints about 2006 to 2009 Priuses were related to lighting, headlamps or visibility. That far outnumbers complaints of sudden acceleration or braking issues in the vehicles, both of which have led to recalls.

    A NHTSA probe launched in April 2009 determined that there were more than 2,250 complaints about failing headlamps lodged with the agency or Toyota, and that Toyota had completed almost 28,000 warranty repairs of the HID system.


    Hmmm a 10% headlamp failure rate? And, NHTSA doesn't think that is sufficient to be a "problem"???

    While its good Toyota has agreed to do something positive, seems to me that a recall of ALL the vehicles with the HID lights in the 06-09 model years would be much more appropriate. After 5 years, you're on your own...

    So much for our federally financed regulatory agencies.... Your tax $$$$ at work.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I didn't make any judgements at all - a federal judge did in an arbitration hearing.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    A poorly done YouTube videos are not a reliable source. Neither is a web site.

    Here you go:

    http://www.alien-ufo-pictures.com/absolute_proof_aliens_exist.html

    NASA's Alien Anomalies caught on film - A compilation of stunning UFO footage from NASA's archives:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlLN_Jcg1pc
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited January 2011
    unless you want to say that US television networks all broadcast FAKE NEWS ?

    Sure all the media put Toyota in the headlines when accusations were flying, they even gave Biller the spotlight in a televised interview.

    How many networks showed the real follow-up story with Toyota winning 2.6 million from Biller? Here it is:

    http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/money_co/2011/01/toyota-biller-ruling.html

    Face it, the media is in business to make money, they'll print whatever sells papers and brings in hits to their web site.

    Corrections are often buried on the back of page 6 in fine print. Or not mentioned at all.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I was on assignment for 4X4 and Dune Buggy News. The editor got a real kick out of me being stuck. This was the famous Tierra del Sol run of 1965

    Cool story, Gary. Were you a freelance editor?

    That terrain looks pretty intense, I'm not surprised you got stuck.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Tell me about it, I'm from Brazil. I feel it, trust me, right in my pocket.

    The Real is strong - TOO strong. When I trade my dollars indeed I'm getting half what I used to get (peak was 3.5:1, now it's 1.8:1), not to mention there has been ~5% annual inflation. So everything there is expensive.

    Example: Shaving Cream? $11 USD.

    Why? Because imports are taxed like crazy.

    Same rule affects cars. My brother just bought a Honda CR-V EX for about R100,000, or about $55,600 USD. The reason it's a bit more than double what it costs here? Import duties.

    So you have to build there to sell there in volume.

    Fiat, Ford, Chevy, and VW have been there the longest. Honda and Toyota built plants there only in the 1990s. Renault and Peugoet as well.

    The plants can actually be in any Mercosul country:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercosur

    FWIW, in Spanish it's Mercosur, but Brazilians call it Mercosul. Think of it as the South American version of NAFTA.

    So US brands can't, say, build a Fusion in Mexico and sell it in Brazil without paying the 100% plus import duty. The result? $60,000 price tags on the Fusion.

    Brazil will be a tough nut to crack. Flexible manufacturing, and LOCAL manufacturing will be the key.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Just looked it up, for kicks. Some prices in Brazil:

    Fusion V6: R$96,273 ($53,485 US dollars)
    Fiesta Flex: R$32,105 ($17,836 US dollars)

    So the Fiesta costs about the same as it does here, maybe a smidge more.

    The Fusion is double after the 100% import duty.

    That's why it's tough for any of Toyota's imports to do much volume.

    Toyota's prices:

    Lexus LS460: R$426,000 (!)
    Lexus ES350: R$228,500
    Land Cruiser Prado: R$166,960
    Hilux 4x4 diesel SW4: R$160,633
    Camry XLE V6: R$128,466
    RAV4 2.4l: R$105,167
    Hilux 4x4 diesel: R$91,800
    Corolla 1.8: R$63,500

    The Hilux is the pickup, previous generation though. The SW4 is an updated previous generation 4Runner, live axles for toughness. The Prado is the previous Lexus GX, updated.

    As you can see, STICKER SHOCK! The only one remotely affordable is the Corolla and you're still talking over $35 grand US.

    Divide by 1.8 to get the figures in US dollars, but you get the point. The LS costs more than my brother's beach front 5 bedroom condo.
  • sunshinegrlsunshinegrl Member Posts: 2
    I just came across this article at work: http://readme.readmedia.com/Lexus-of-Watertown-to-Debut-Carmakers-Newest-Model/1- 882053

    I drive a ES350, so I'm curious to see if the new CT200H can win me over - definitely going! Anybody want to tag along?
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Cool story, Gary. Were you a freelance editor?

    That terrain looks pretty intense, I'm not surprised you got stuck.


    I was a freelance photographer. Mostly covered the desert runs. Tierra del Sol is still run every year. I was following a CJ that made it through the spot. I had the only Toyota on the run.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    "Anybody want to tag along?"

    Sure, I can do Boston in about 16 to 17 hours!

    I wish I had your ES to do it with tho..
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,404
    Appreciating currency yet apparently not the most "free market" that some of the self-titled capitalists here embrace. Weird.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,706
    Didn't you deride me over my original post about the headlight issue?
    That's ok, I'm glad I was able to help out all those Prius owners. :surprise: :)
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • delthekingdeltheking Member Posts: 1,152
    Never derided you. You can check the posts. Infact,when you mentioned the Prius headlight cost, I looked it up and posted the info about the NHTSA investigation and complaints. I have no ownership in Toyota - it is what it is - I just feel competition is good for everyone and car makers have to ensure the best quality. And the fact is that the Prius is still one of the most reliable cars out there. And I am hoping the Ford Cmax and Fusion hybrid perform well and reliably in turn putting more pressure on Prius. Win win for me the buyer !! :P
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