Toyota on the mend?

gagrice · January 2011

According to the Toyota recall notice they are only replacing 2000-03 Tundra frames with a 10 MM or larger hole caused by rust. I have read of later models also having rusty frames. This recall only lasts till April of next year. Are they hoping to beat the rust curve. If I had an older Tundra, I think I would be spraying the frame with salt water to speed the process before it is too late.

http://www.tundraheadquarters.com/blog/2009/08/10/2003-toyota-tundra-frame-rust/-

gagrice · January 2011

No they don't - Dana is paying since they supplied those.

Are you sure? According to the link you supplied they are paying $25 million for Tacoma frames. I cannot find anything on Dana paying for the 2000-03 Tundra frames.

The settlement covers the corrosion of frames that Dana's former structural products business assembled for select Tacoma pickup trucks, Dana said.

The Tacoma pickups were subject to a customer support program initiated by Toyota in 2008.

link title

According to this website Dana is off the hook for the $10k Tundra frame replacements.

http://www.tundraheadquarters.com/blog/2010/05/06/toyota-launches-00-03-tundra-f- - rame-replacement-program/

imidazol97 · January 2011

"The Tacoma pickups were subject to a customer support program initiated by Toyota in 2008. "

Is that a euphemism from toyo now for RECALL?

lemko · January 2011

Roger Smith was an accountant too! Do we see a pattern here?

deltheking · January 2011

Every automaker has such programs. I guess you did not hear about the Nissan customer initiation/satisfaction program for all its large SUV's,truck and minivan -- for all of them ! :shades:

imidazol97 · January 2011

>Nissan customer initiation/satisfaction

Since this is the Toyota on the Mend for 2011 discussion, I thought I'd stay on topic about toyota's past and problems.

xlu · January 2011

In 2010, GM sold 2.35 million cars in China, passed its sales in the US for the first time in its century long history. Toyota only sold 0.85 million cars in this fastest growing market.

GM's world wide sales in 2010 was 8.39 million, a dramatic 12% increase and only trails Toyota's 8.42 million by a thin margin and is expected to regain the world's No. 1 automaker title it lost to Toyota in 2008 this year.

GM gains

xlu · January 2011

LA Times: Toyota Motor Corp. has agreed to settle a class action lawsuit over headlights in its 2006 to 2009 Prius hybrids that shut off without warning.

Those attorneys said that as many as 320,000 owners of Priuses with optional high intensity discharge (HID) headlights may be covered by the agreement.

In settling, the embattled Japanese automaker removes another challenge from its hefty legal docket, but also adds to the mounting costs of addressing its recent quality and safety issues. Toyota still faces hundreds of lawsuits for other issues, including sudden acceleration and rollover problems.

Toyota settlement

busiris · January 2011

Warren Buffett is not perfect either, I am sure he has his dark side, we all do. But look, Madoff got fined and went to prison. Buffett did NOT ! So comparing Nissan, Honda and Hyundai to toyota is like comparing Buffett to Madoff.

Its the DEGREE of shenanigan deeds that separate them.

This is a FACT. Its up to you to defend toyota if you want to

By those comments, can we assume that you agree with the criminal trial verdict in the O.J. Simpson murder trial?

Obviously, you have confused fact with perception...

busiris · January 2011

As for the German car makers, I have never heard stories of them making weak cars and covering them up, German cars are well known around the world for strength and safety

Hmmm.... Ever heard of BMW and its HPFP issues (and recent recall after 4 years of continued failures)?.

ateixeira · January 2011

perhaps many Chinese have also read the shocking news about toyota's crazy behaviour, atrocious quality and decided not to waste their hard earned money on toyota....

You're wrong AGAIN.

Toyota's sales were up 19% for 2010 in China.

Source:

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/01/24/report-toyota-remains-worlds-largest-automake- r-for-third-year/

The company's sales in the People's Republic jumped by 19 percent

ateixeira · January 2011

Nissan's recall is for petty matters

WRONG yet again.

You call a snapped steering shaft "petty"?

Stop being biased, Nissan's recalls were very serious.

ateixeira · January 2011

only trails Toyota's 8.42 million by a thin margin

Nice spin, but I thought this was a no-spin zone.

Toyota is #1 globally. Period. They won again.

They grew by 8% in 2010, without a doubt their worst year in history, and they still had growth, and solid growth in China, where it counts!

On top of that, oil is up $20 a barrel.

Gee, who is in a position to benefit in terms of VOLUME (not a few Volts and Leafs here and there) with LOTS of hybrids?

Wonder who that is.

ateixeira · January 2011

I'm sure Prius owners will be pleased.

xlu · January 2011

Toyota is #1 globally. Period. They won again.

Do you understand momentum? GM is accelerating while Toyota is slowing down more and more especially a very poor Dec 2010. It's just a matter of time for the GM to pass Toyota early this year.

fezo · January 2011

Oh, good. Everyone else has been saying Toyotas are accelerating.....

ateixeira · January 2011

while Toyota is slowing down more and more especially a very poor Dec 2010

But they didn't slow down, sales went up 8% globally. They were flat in flat markets with little growth potential, and strong in markets with big growth potential.

And one of those two links said December was a good month!

slowcar · January 2011

Does any one know the breakdown, types of cars, sold in China for year 2010? Were they mainly made by GM subsidiary (Deawoo, for example) or cars typically available in US? Thanks.

xlu · January 2011

Toyota was the only major automaker in the US to post a decline in Dec 2010; the 2 key models, Camry and Corolla, performed even worse, with 11% and 36% decline, respectively

xlu · January 2011

I cannot seem to find the 2010 full year China sales numbers yet. From the data of 2009, GM's Buick and Chevrolet were among the top selling brands in China (Buick Excelle was one of the top selling models, a compact sedan); GM's joint venture Wuling was also selling well.

explorerx4 · January 2011

That was my point, sometimes extra weight can be to your advantage.
I was just tying it in to a Toyota topic.

explorerx4 · January 2011

I think you are living in that psychedelic flower power world of those old Prius commercials, but no problem, enjoy it.

deltheking · January 2011

I bet you have forgotten when gas spiked to 4.50 + in 2008 -- folks traded in their gas guzzlers for smaller cars. And even in Texas where folks just love huge suv's and hate small cars-- the gas spike caused a curious shift. But for me - I found a great deal on a Lexus GX at that time b'cos guzzlers at that time were just not selling. Car dealers even refused to take in SUV's at some places. How quickly er forget ! And when gas reverted back to 2.50,big Texas SUV's were back

And if gas touches close to 5 , then I guarantee that many folks would want to in that psychedelic flower power world !! LOL! :P

explorerx4 · January 2011

I haven't forgotten about that gas spike, but I have enough cars that i never paid it. My thinking was just drive the SUV less.
Up here in the northeast and a lot of other places in the winter, sometimes fuel price is not the most important factor, just getting there is.
My guess is plenty of manufacturers will be able to fulfill those knee jerk Texas style reactions to a fuel price spike. It's not just a perceived Toyota niche anymore. :surprise:

deltheking · January 2011

As I am in NY this year - I can say that folks here in NE are even more conscious of gas price than folks in the south or elsewhere. For many people- their only vehicle may be the SUV,so they have no choice like you !

And in the constant stop and go traffic of NY - fuel economy really suffers. More so for SUV's . Regarding the knee jerk responses- well, only 1 car right now can deliver 50 mpg and if you want a fuel efficient mid size sedan - you have only 3 options: Camry/Fusion/Sonata hybrids. So it is certainly a niche and for 50 mpg it is only a Toyota niche . :P

explorerx4 · January 2011

Here is a cultural factoid for you. People in the Northeast like complaining about gas prices. Actually, anything that costs them money they don't feel like spending.
Yankees (not the baseball team

) are known for being frugal with a dollar.

gagrice · January 2011

And when gas reverted back to 2.50,big Texas SUV's were back

For those following Edmunds in 2008. I did recommend buying an SUV that you want while the gas prices are high. Great deals were to be had. They will come around again. And there are a lot more good choices. I don't think I would be looking at Toyota again. Unless they offer a diesel Land Cruiser or Sequoia.

berri · January 2011

That's because the states tax them to death out there!

snowallergy · January 2011

I think in the future we'll see shorter and shorter redesign cycles among all auto makers. Competition and computers will make this a reality. We will eventually get to the point where we can almost design our own rides, within parameters of course.

stever · January 2011

So, if you think my minivan and wagon are bad, wait to you see what I'll wind up with when I pick one item from Column A, one from Column B and toss in some vinyl for the floorboards.

Mr. Simpson, your car just arrived at the freight terminal, and by the way, the roof racks took out part of our loading door.

And I won't forget the sunroof for Marge's hairdo. :P

snowallergy · January 2011

I can give some crash test data if anyone wants to. There are SOME toyotas on sale there whose crash test ratings are on PAR with some Chinese domestic brands !
=========================

You're buggin'. According to the highway loss data institute toyotas are safer than hyundai and most other models. I'd rather get my information from those that have access to the claims that are processed than another corruptable source.

snowallergy · January 2011

You mean the GM that wiped out its bond holders in favor of the union, that GM? Anyone who purchased their stock at the last new public offering must be smoking pot. Marijuana messes with your short term memory.

explorerx4 · January 2011

If a word is underlined, it means it is not really a word.
Ignoring spell check does not help make your point.

xlu · January 2011

You mean the GM that wiped out its bond holders in favor of the union, that GM?

Yep. The GM in the past a couple of years is a perfect case study of our systems. The GM in the US was dragged down into the bankruptcy by the lazy and greedy union; even in those dark years, GM was still able to enjoy the high double digits increase in the countries like China where GM management can run the company by business sense without having to deal with unions. They succeeded brilliantly. They did so by designing hot and reliable cars people actually love at a reasonable cost. GM is the trend-setter in China.

Lazy and greedy workers, Democrats and big government are driving the US onto the cliff and making our country losing its competitive edge to China quickly. Europe's failed experiments already show what the US could be in 10 years if we continue on the course current government is trying to go.

Let's improve our education, get rid of minimum wages and other entitlements for the people who do not work or not work hard, cut taxes to business owners, give incentives to the innovative companies, balance trade with China, restore the American dream.

xlu · January 2011

My previous post was a bit off topic without talking about Toyota.

Toyota enjoyed a competitive advantage in the US over GM for not having to deal with unions. In China, Toyota does not have such advantages and GM walks all over them. This is another example against union.

gagrice · January 2011

Lazy and greedy workers, Democrats and big government are driving the US onto the cliff and making our country losing its competitive edge to China quickly.

XLU, you need to visit us on this thread. I could use a little help from time to time.

http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f1d3f68/9146#MSG9146

ben66 · January 2011

You are very stubborn aren't you ? How many times must I say, there is a BIG difference between making an imperfect product, and then having to recall it (NORMAL),

As compared to PLAYING AROUND with recalls to save money, to protect a ruined name, and worse, refusing to admit mistake and paying settlement money to cover up and/or blaming other things to avoid talking about the real issue.

Give me just ONE report that proved Nissan also congratulated themselves for saving hundreds of millions of dollars by delaying, avoiding recalls, the way toyota did. How about VW ? How about Honda ? How about Hyundai ? You can't find evidence they did such things can you ?

And the fact remains, toyota has payed big fines. And if not because a clause said there is a limit to the maximum fine, toyota will be stuck with billions of dollars of fines instead of just a few tens of millions !

Are Nissan, Honda, Hyundai, VW fined ? Why not ? Because, hey, why don't you supply the answer this time ?

Do you understand ?

ben66 · January 2011

Again you are very stubborn ! Everybody cut costs, BUT the results are DIFFERENT !

Ghosn cut costs and revived Nissan and make them into a big fast growing Japanese automaker today, taking the no.1 Japanese car maker spot in the world's biggest and fastest growing car market, China. Remember, he who rules China will rule the world one day. Perhaps Nissan's biggest competitor there is not toyota and honda but BIG boy VW !

toyota top brass keeps wringing water from dry towels and what do you get ? Nothing but bribes to consumers, bribes to jd, bribes to NHTSA to play around with their recalls, and what else ? Nothing but countless troubles !

And hey, toyota recently even made it to the " Most hated " corporations list in America. Nissan did not even made it to that list. Shame on you Carlos !

ben66 · January 2011

You want source ? I GIVE YOU SOURCE ! Read for yourself to see what kind of people you are defending ! :

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=amu_acV5P5W4

Notable points from the article above :

1. Watanabe, trained as an economist, not as an engineer...

2. " Water can be wrung even from a dry towel if you put your mind to it, said Eiji Toyoda, a former company president.

See, even akio's daddy have been spreading this philosophy since a long time ago. And katsuaki did not get to be CEO by rejecting this philosophy !

Anyway, do read the full article. Its full of many interesting points !

ben66 · January 2011

Yea sure, ahead by paying out settlements to keep defects covered up, bribing jd power and so on to make people thing they are the best, and what else ? We know don't we ?

The druglords are also probably ahead of us all in the bank account size race...So ahead in sales means NOTHING if bandit methods are used to achieve it.

ben66 · January 2011

You are damn right, I see the pattern ! The moral of the story, if history is any indication, its :

DON'T BUY CARS MADE BY an ACCOUNTANT CEO ! Or a LAWYER ! (akio toyoda)

Put an accountant and a lawyer together to run a car maker and you have TRIPLE TROUBLE !

Trust me, today's toyota is going down the same road when GM is under Roger Smith !

ben66 · January 2011

Sure, like I said, people will not suddenly all drop toyota because they have been fooled for so long, like how Madoff's investors don't desert him for a very long time.

But hey, Nissan did MUCH better than toyota in China. Look :

http://www.chinacartimes.com/2011/01/10/nissan-china-sales-top-1-million-units-i- n-2010-shows-35-raise/

Top 1 million cars sold and 35% increase ! Any analyst will smile with this kind of results !

ben66 · January 2011

Corruptable source ? How about if the data came from the China New Car Assesment Program, much like the Euro New Car Assesment Program ? The EuroNCAP ? China also have one, the CNCAP.

OK, here goes. This one model is the one that make toyota / daihatsu a lot of money, sold in large numbers in South East Asia and a few other less developed countries. But when they try to sell it in China, they failed miserably, because the Chinese realized that not only is the safety on par with Chinese domestic models, but the quality must have been so bad.

The maker is daihatsu, toyota's small car arm. Known as the daihatsu xenia, and toyota even tried to fool people that its a toyota by rebadging it as the toyota avanza. But due to the poor reception by the Chinese market, this toyota is now rebadged as a Chinese brand and daihatsu in fact left China for good !

Here's the crash test stats for this horrendous toyota that fooled so many people in South East Asia (but not the Chinese) :

http://www.c-ncap.org.cn/app/cncap/pzsj.jsp?pzid=2306

The daihatsu xenia. Also known as the toyota avanza. It got only 3 stars, total score 34.1.

Compare to another Chinese model in the same segment :

http://www.c-ncap.org.cn/app/cncap/pzsj.jsp?pzid=2606

3 stars. Total score 30.4

Another Chinese domestic model :

http://www.c-ncap.org.cn/app/cncap/pzsj.jsp?pzid=2392

3 stars. Total score 32.9

So you can see that this toyota / daihatsu is very similar to the Chinese domestic models when it comes to the crash test strengths.

Now compare to the honda FIT :

http://www.c-ncap.org.cn/app/cncap/pzsj.jsp?pzid=1456

5 stars. Total score 46.4 !!!

So the US is lucky to get more " decent " toyotas. Many toyotas sold in the poorer countries are really just tin cans waiting to kill their owners when there is an accident.

ben66 · January 2011

And not just GM, but the other so called low ranked brands on the jd power chart like VW, Nissan, also walks all over toyota there.

ateixeira · January 2011

Does any one know the breakdown, types of cars, sold in China for year 2010?

No, but GM's rosy numbers include nine (yes, 9) joint ventures, an asterisk if there ever was one.

ateixeira · January 2011

Toyota was the only major automaker in the US to post a decline in Dec 2010; the 2 key models, Camry and Corolla, performed even worse, with 11% and 36% decline, respectively

More spin.

Sales were flat in the US but grew 8% globally, which includes US sales.

Camry is late in its life cycle, plus most of that reduction was from unprofitable fleet sales.

Lexus was up, and profitable trucks like the 4Runner, Highlander, and Sienna all did well.

ateixeira · January 2011

For those following Edmunds in 2008. I did recommend buying an SUV that you want while the gas prices are high. Great deals were to be had

Yes I do and you deserve credit where credit is due. Good call.

Unfortunately oil is climbing upwards again.

ateixeira · January 2011

Didn't we just show that the top 10 cheapest to insure cars included several Toyotas?

I love how some people ignore any and all good news relating to Toyota.

8% global growth in 2010, I wonder if in 2011 they can sustain such strong growth?

ateixeira · January 2011

GM is the trend-setter in China

Keep in mind GM counts sales from its nine joint-ventures in China. That makes the numbers look much rosier.

And it's risky business - you have to wonder if the companies they are working with will respect their intellectual property.

ateixeira · January 2011

You are very stubborn aren't you ?

Stubborn, or persistent?

To be honest it gets a bit tiring being your fact-checker.

How about fewer opinions and more facts from you from now on? Let's see a source for each of your wild claims and theories.

Give me just ONE report that proved Nissan also congratulated themselves for saving hundreds of millions of dollars by delaying, avoiding recalls

Don't be lazy - Google it yourself. "Nissan hidden recall" generated 316,000 hits.

For the record that is 315,999 more than you asked for.

And before you look and say Toyota had more, compared to similarly-sized Ford they only had about 1/4th as many hits.

How about VW ?

VW scandals are juicier and usually involve prostitutes. LOL

Since you asked, though:

316,000 for "Nissan hidden recall"
449,000 for Honda
492,000 hits for VW
542,000 for Toyota
593,000 for Hyundai
1,300,000 for Chrysler
1,540,000 for GM
2,130,000 for Ford

Proportional to sales, Toyota has the least! LOL

You're just too lazy to search, that I understand completely.

Toyota on the mend?

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