I did see a Camry in the parking lot at work today.
And I saw a Ford Explorer in the ditch on Seven Locks Rd yesterday in Potomac, MD, just south of Tuckerman Lane.
Even 4WD vehicles should be careful and stay home unless absolutely necessary. I can't tell you how many cars were stranded, some in the middle of the road. Some people took 7-10 hours to drive home in Wed night rush hour. I left early and had AWD, so I made it home safely.
Maybe the Camry owner left his car and took public transportation - smart IMHO.
We had sleet, freezing rain, snow, it was a huge mess. I had no power for 2 nights, in fact we just got it back.
the company sold 5,313,000 units worldwide “to wholesale” (i.e. out of the door.), up 447,000 units or 9.19 percent
9% is not double digits, sorry xlu.
Ford did grow a higher percentage, just barely, but Toyota's sales were up by more than 600,000 units so they actually increased their lead over Ford globally.
Actually I'm surprised, they seem to be doing well, yet they slipped from 3rd to 4th, and now to 5th.
Hold on a bit; this 9% increase was the result of removing Volvo sales in 2010 while counting it in 2009. This is not an apple to apple comparison because the Volvo sales does not disappear from the industry, it's now just being counted under Tata.
According to Ford's official report, if excluding Volvo sales in both 2009 and 2010, Ford's 2010 worldwide sales increases a whopping 19.7%! That's the highest increase I've seen in any published annual reports so far.
We got about 15" in Philly. I started shoveling at 3 AM and didn't finish until 11:00! A snowblower is starting to look like a very attractive option with a major snowstorm every three days! :mad:
Actually I'm surprised, they seem to be doing well, yet they slipped from 3rd to 4th, and now to 5th.
The reason for these changes is the industry re-shuffle; Ford sold Volvo to Tata, while Hyundai combined with Kia. So Ford has one less brand to count revenue, Hyundai gains one brand for revenue even it only holds 34% of Kia.
VW passed Ford for the same reason: merging with Porsche.
Actually I'm impressed too with Ford; their gain in auto sales in 2010 more than offsets the entire loss of the revenue from the Volvo brand, AND gained over 9% on top of that.
Excluding these changes, Ford's 19.7% gain is kicking everyone else tail now.
I don't count Sprinter sales in M-B's total (previously Dodge), so to be fair and consistent we should exclude Volvo from Ford's deltas as well. Apples to apples.
Touchee.
However - we are including GM's joint venture sales, and that questions the 12% gains reported by GM.
34% of Kia is a gray area - I'm sure Hyundai controls Kia's automotive operations.
Porsche doesn't do a lot of volume so I doubt that had much effect on VW's numbers. They (and Audi) had a good year.
Toyota could have made its numbers look better by increasing its share in Subaru (in the low 20% range now). Subaru's sales were not included in Toyota's totals, US or global. BUT... Toyota's part ownership is in parent company FHI, which does a lot of other things. They essentially control Subaru's automotive operations, just like Hyundai controls Kia.
In fact I'll go out on a limb and predict Toyota will increase its share and influence in Subaru.
Not such a stretch - the FT86 is coming and Toyota has already shown not one but TWO concepts, both with Subaru chassis and powertrains.
However - we are including GM's joint venture sales, and that questions the 12% gains reported by GM.
GM's situation is different for 3 reasons:
1) As I explained before, all foreign automakers operate in China as joint ventures; so it's not just GM counts the JVs. 2) GM owns half of the JVs and all IPs according to Chinese law; the products bear GM's brand names except Wuling. 3) GM has the JVs from the start and for many years, so they were counted in all years including 2009 and 2010, not just 2010.
None of this takes away from Toyota's 8% global gains, which is still a solid performance in their worst year ever.
Don't forget, it is quality not quantity that bring buyers back in a few years. Right now Toyota is losing to Ford and Hyundai. If those vehicles serve the people well it will be another Ford or Hyundai. Toyota will have lost them.
By the way, why is it ok for Toyota to count Hino trucks and Mercedes not count Sprinter? Not too fair and balanced on that one.
so to be fair and consistent we should exclude Volvo from Ford's deltas as well. Apples to apples.
So have we reached a consensus here?
So far, the global sales gain in 2010 are: GM 12%, Hyundai 16%, Ford 19%; all double digits and all much better than Toyota's 8%. I'm waiting for Nissan's numbers next.
That's a complicated question. I still wonder about stolen intellectual property. GM is taking risks - it could indeed pay off big. Or bite them later.
why is it ok for Toyota to count Hino trucks and Mercedes not count Sprinter?
For total global sales they both count.
Mercedes doesn't count Sprinters in the USA luxury sales totals, but they would count towards global totals, which include non-luxury cars like the A- and B-class as well.
Mercedes is seen as luxury brand in the USA, but let's remember they had to use a different name (Maybach) to chase the top tier buyers because the M-B name is associated with econobox A-classes in other markets.
I'd be curious to know how global volumes changed. The totals, I mean. Did auto sales grow by significantly more than 8%? I don't know, but I doubt it.
Also - let's remember a barrel of oil was cheap, a big factor for Toyota.
Also, Ford achieved such high growth with more than 6 billion dollars profit! They did not have to use too much incentives to trade profit for revenue.
Also - let's remember a barrel of oil was cheap, a big factor for Toyota
Toyota does not have much of an advantage on fuel economy anymore. Ford Fiesta and Chevy Cruze are both at or close to 40 mpg cars and much more fun to drive. Fiesta is European's top selling model while Cruze is one of China's top selling model.
In addition, Toyota lags behind GM and Nissan in EVs. The upcoming plug-in Prius only has a quarter of the pure EV range as the Volts and even more less than Leaf. They are force to learn the battery technology from the joint venture with Tesla.
In addition, Toyota lags behind GM and Nissan in EVs. The upcoming plug-in Prius only has a quarter of the pure EV range as the Volts and even more less than Leaf. They are force to learn the battery technology from the joint venture with Tesla.
You know, I would say that the jury is still out on "battery only" powered vehicles. At this point, they are far from proven, as is the Chevy Volt.
Of course, Toyota is behind the "curve" if the Leaf and Volt are success stories, but if they falter (think GM in the 70's with its sub-standard diesel engines in cars) they may end up as big winners by being so late in the game. I still know some who refuse to consider GM due to owning one of those cars.
No matter, Ford had a good year. EcoBoost is a hit, MyFord Touch is new, the Fiesta is out and Focus is out in Europe. They pretty much had a slew of new products/technologies and most have done well.
Toyota's new products have also done well (4Runner, Sienna, GX), but they're in lower volume segments. Exception? Scion tC.
Toyota has the iQ and Prius V in the pipeline just as oil prices spike. A new Camry and Corolla can't be too far off, both are long in the tooth. RAV4 is old, too. Lexus has the IS and GS coming. And EnTune, also.
Sound familiar? New product worked for Ford, Toyota is next in line with new product.
Hybrids will do a lot more volume than EVs. Range anxiety and production capacity for batteries will limit EV sales.
I think Toyota stands to gain the most from a gas price spike, having the widest range of hybrid products, and the production capacity to take advantage of it.
Toyota sold 315,000 Prius in Japan alone. That's just in one country.
I think that was far and away their biggest seller in Japan. Nissan is planning on selling 10,000 Leafs a month here in the USA. I am skeptical. I think the initial 20k will move fast and then be like the first Prius. Only Eco Geeks will buy them, mostly as a short range commuter. The local dealer told me yesterday they were installing the charging station for free. At least here in CA.
I don't think Toyota ever reached 315k Prius sales in the USA. They would not have sold that many in Japan if not for government subsidies.
TOKYO (Dow Jones)--Toyota Motor Corp. (7203.TO) said Thursday that it cut production in Japan by 15.5% in December from a year earlier, despite an increase in exports, as domestic sales slumped after government auto-buying incentives ended.
The world's biggest car maker by sales volume reaped solid domestic sales of fuel-efficient cars such as the Prius most of last year until the government axed its subsidies program in September.
The expiry of the government aid, which was designed to spark sales of gas-sipping vehicles, took a toll on Toyota and other Japanese car makers, denting customers' appetite for compact cars and hybrids.
You both mentioned the Prius' incentives, but let's remember the Leaf and Volt are getting far, far bigger incentives. $7,500 big, plus more in some states.
Also, here in the US, the Prius is competitive and sells well even after the incentives expired.
Will we say the same about the Leaf and Volt? Good luck, they'll need it.
While production was cut in Japan, remember that North American production is way up.
Its called AWD=all wheel drive. When the time comes for a new car they will be on my list
Oh I know, trust me, we own a Subaru.
But still, the WRX has limited ground clearance. Better than the sporty cars it competes with, but not nearly as good as, say, a Forester or Outback. The tires on those cars are also geared towards performance rather than winter grip.
If you really want to get around in the snow, there are better Subarus to choose from than a WRX. OEM tires are all-seaons, summer only for the STi. Just keep that in mind when shopping around.
You didn't see any Explorers because they were already there. Weight and ground clearance has definite advantages in the snow. Anything can be canceled out by driving like an idiot, though.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
I think a big factor now is those SUVs that were popular a few years ago have now been handed down to the teenage sons and daughters of the original owners.
TOKYO (Kyodo) -- Toyota Motor Corp.'s Prius hybrid surrendered its leadership in Japan's passenger car market in January for the first time in 20 months, with Honda Motor Co.'s subcompact Fit likely to capture the top slot, industry sources said Tuesday.
Sounds like Toyota's own Vitz model also stole a few sales.
Those Fit sales include the new Fit Hybrid - a model they should bring here. I don't get why Honda has 3 hybrids and none of them are 5 door hatches. Two small sedans (redundancy, much?) and the CR-Z.
Went to the Philly Auto Show yesterday and sat in a CR-Z for the first time. Kinda neat techie feel to it, but ditch the batteries and put in a bigger engine and call it the the CR-X to get me interested.
FWIW the show was empty. I think the Auto Industry is still very much in a recession. The *only* car I had to wait in line to check out was the Fiat 500. Loved it!
Could it be that Lexus has lost 3 places in January? I think the chart is wrong as MB has a higher number than that.
MONTVALE, N.J., Feb. 1, 2011 /PRNewswire/ -- Mercedes-Benz USA (MBUSA) continued its strong momentum of the past year with a 14% increase for January 2011 (17,273 vs. 15,158).
You did this before too. 1 month's sales is irrelevant. So how about weekly or seasonal sales?? C'mon try to be realistic irrespective of your hatred towards Toyota/lexus. It's like saying sports cars sell better than SUV's [in sunny Florida summer]. Just more spin. :sick:
And by the way Toyota recorded sales increase of 17% compared to Jan 2010. To me again it doesnt matter.. What matters is the sales at the end of 2011. :surprise:
Not until January 2012. Until then we take it one month at a time. And the pie chart was from a Lexus forum posted by a person that has 4 Lexus. One month sales may be irrelevant to you. However the car makers all post their monthly sales. I will try to be the first when the Feb 2011 sales come out good bad or indifferent. I also own a Lexus. Drove it today as a matter of fact. As well as a Sequoia. I am a firm believer in competition to make things better for all.
The Toyota Division posted January sales of 102,996 units, an increase of 23.7 percent over the same period last year. The Lexus Division reported sales of 12,860 units, a decrease of 17.1 percent from last January.
But Lexus had the lowest incentive of the 3. And this despite all the recall hysteria and crazy SUA stupid stories. And this incentive was 78% more than Lexus' last year and still it is less than MB/BMW. And this following in its so called worst year. :P
Lexus' average incentive cost during the month was $2,752, 78 percent more than last year, TrueCar said.
BMW incentive spending fell 20 percent to $3,434 while Mercedes’ fell 3.5 percent to $3,329, according to TrueCar.
I'd be more interested to know average transaction price, or revenue/profit per unit, if I was really looking for some measure of success. And then one has to include all markets.
Lexus' average incentive cost during the month was $2,752, 78 percent more than last year, TrueCar said.
Not sure what you are driving at? My wife bought one of the first LS400s to come into San Diego in 1989. She got it for less than it cost Toyota to build it. All in Lexus' desire to beat Mercedes. I am with fintail on this. What is the net profit per car sold? That is really the only important figure if you plan to stay in the car business. The guy that sells 100,000 widgets at a loss is not doing as well as the guy that sells one widget at a profit.
Comments
And I saw a Ford Explorer in the ditch on Seven Locks Rd yesterday in Potomac, MD, just south of Tuckerman Lane.
Even 4WD vehicles should be careful and stay home unless absolutely necessary. I can't tell you how many cars were stranded, some in the middle of the road. Some people took 7-10 hours to drive home in Wed night rush hour. I left early and had AWD, so I made it home safely.
Maybe the Camry owner left his car and took public transportation - smart IMHO.
We had sleet, freezing rain, snow, it was a huge mess. I had no power for 2 nights, in fact we just got it back.
link title
9% is not double digits, sorry xlu.
Ford did grow a higher percentage, just barely, but Toyota's sales were up by more than 600,000 units so they actually increased their lead over Ford globally.
Actually I'm surprised, they seem to be doing well, yet they slipped from 3rd to 4th, and now to 5th.
Hold on a bit; this 9% increase was the result of removing Volvo sales in 2010 while counting it in 2009. This is not an apple to apple comparison because the Volvo sales does not disappear from the industry, it's now just being counted under Tata.
According to Ford's official report, if excluding Volvo sales in both 2009 and 2010, Ford's 2010 worldwide sales increases a whopping 19.7%! That's the highest increase I've seen in any published annual reports so far.
Ford annual report
The reason for these changes is the industry re-shuffle; Ford sold Volvo to Tata, while Hyundai combined with Kia. So Ford has one less brand to count revenue, Hyundai gains one brand for revenue even it only holds 34% of Kia.
VW passed Ford for the same reason: merging with Porsche.
Actually I'm impressed too with Ford; their gain in auto sales in 2010 more than offsets the entire loss of the revenue from the Volvo brand, AND gained over 9% on top of that.
Excluding these changes, Ford's 19.7% gain is kicking everyone else tail now.
Touchee.
However - we are including GM's joint venture sales, and that questions the 12% gains reported by GM.
34% of Kia is a gray area - I'm sure Hyundai controls Kia's automotive operations.
Porsche doesn't do a lot of volume so I doubt that had much effect on VW's numbers. They (and Audi) had a good year.
Toyota could have made its numbers look better by increasing its share in Subaru (in the low 20% range now). Subaru's sales were not included in Toyota's totals, US or global. BUT... Toyota's part ownership is in parent company FHI, which does a lot of other things. They essentially control Subaru's automotive operations, just like Hyundai controls Kia.
In fact I'll go out on a limb and predict Toyota will increase its share and influence in Subaru.
Not such a stretch - the FT86 is coming and Toyota has already shown not one but TWO concepts, both with Subaru chassis and powertrains.
Forget the snowblower! Get a snowplow!
Actually, we got a bit of everything, rain, freezing rain, sleet, snow, wet snow, etc.
A co-worker left at 4pm Wed and got home at 2am Thursday!
GM's situation is different for 3 reasons:
1) As I explained before, all foreign automakers operate in China as joint ventures; so it's not just GM counts the JVs.
2) GM owns half of the JVs and all IPs according to Chinese law; the products bear GM's brand names except Wuling.
3) GM has the JVs from the start and for many years, so they were counted in all years including 2009 and 2010, not just 2010.
So the 12% increase is valid for GM.
I definitely see an opportunity for them to tweak the sales numbers to say whatever they want to say.
None of this takes away from Toyota's 8% global gains, which is still a solid performance in their worst year ever.
Toyota also counted all the cars sold in China under JV. Should they count half of the volumes of those?
It seems to be the well accepted way in the industry on how to count sales in China because the special law there.
Who's smarter?
Don't forget, it is quality not quantity that bring buyers back in a few years. Right now Toyota is losing to Ford and Hyundai. If those vehicles serve the people well it will be another Ford or Hyundai. Toyota will have lost them.
By the way, why is it ok for Toyota to count Hino trucks and Mercedes not count Sprinter? Not too fair and balanced on that one.
So have we reached a consensus here?
So far, the global sales gain in 2010 are: GM 12%, Hyundai 16%, Ford 19%; all double digits and all much better than Toyota's 8%. I'm waiting for Nissan's numbers next.
For total global sales they both count.
Mercedes doesn't count Sprinters in the USA luxury sales totals, but they would count towards global totals, which include non-luxury cars like the A- and B-class as well.
Mercedes is seen as luxury brand in the USA, but let's remember they had to use a different name (Maybach) to chase the top tier buyers because the M-B name is associated with econobox A-classes in other markets.
I'd be curious to know how global volumes changed. The totals, I mean. Did auto sales grow by significantly more than 8%? I don't know, but I doubt it.
Also - let's remember a barrel of oil was cheap, a big factor for Toyota.
Toyota does not have much of an advantage on fuel economy anymore. Ford Fiesta and Chevy Cruze are both at or close to 40 mpg cars and much more fun to drive. Fiesta is European's top selling model while Cruze is one of China's top selling model.
In addition, Toyota lags behind GM and Nissan in EVs. The upcoming plug-in Prius only has a quarter of the pure EV range as the Volts and even more less than Leaf. They are force to learn the battery technology from the joint venture with Tesla.
You know, I would say that the jury is still out on "battery only" powered vehicles. At this point, they are far from proven, as is the Chevy Volt.
Of course, Toyota is behind the "curve" if the Leaf and Volt are success stories, but if they falter (think GM in the 70's with its sub-standard diesel engines in cars) they may end up as big winners by being so late in the game. I still know some who refuse to consider GM due to owning one of those cars.
Its just too early to tell...
No matter, Ford had a good year. EcoBoost is a hit, MyFord Touch is new, the Fiesta is out and Focus is out in Europe. They pretty much had a slew of new products/technologies and most have done well.
Toyota's new products have also done well (4Runner, Sienna, GX), but they're in lower volume segments. Exception? Scion tC.
Toyota has the iQ and Prius V in the pipeline just as oil prices spike. A new Camry and Corolla can't be too far off, both are long in the tooth. RAV4 is old, too. Lexus has the IS and GS coming. And EnTune, also.
Sound familiar? New product worked for Ford, Toyota is next in line with new product.
I think Toyota stands to gain the most from a gas price spike, having the widest range of hybrid products, and the production capacity to take advantage of it.
GM is hoping to build 120,000 Volts in 2012, that's next year.
The Prius V has the potential to outsell the Volt - and that's just counting sales in Japan.
I think that was far and away their biggest seller in Japan. Nissan is planning on selling 10,000 Leafs a month here in the USA. I am skeptical. I think the initial 20k will move fast and then be like the first Prius. Only Eco Geeks will buy them, mostly as a short range commuter. The local dealer told me yesterday they were installing the charging station for free. At least here in CA.
I don't think Toyota ever reached 315k Prius sales in the USA. They would not have sold that many in Japan if not for government subsidies.
TOKYO (Dow Jones)--Toyota Motor Corp. (7203.TO) said Thursday that it cut production in Japan by 15.5% in December from a year earlier, despite an increase in exports, as domestic sales slumped after government auto-buying incentives ended.
The world's biggest car maker by sales volume reaped solid domestic sales of fuel-efficient cars such as the Prius most of last year until the government axed its subsidies program in September.
The expiry of the government aid, which was designed to spark sales of gas-sipping vehicles, took a toll on Toyota and other Japanese car makers, denting customers' appetite for compact cars and hybrids.
http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20110127-705296.html
When it ended, the numbers dropped off accordingly.
You both mentioned the Prius' incentives, but let's remember the Leaf and Volt are getting far, far bigger incentives. $7,500 big, plus more in some states.
Also, here in the US, the Prius is competitive and sells well even after the incentives expired.
Will we say the same about the Leaf and Volt? Good luck, they'll need it.
While production was cut in Japan, remember that North American production is way up.
Oh I know, trust me, we own a Subaru.
But still, the WRX has limited ground clearance. Better than the sporty cars it competes with, but not nearly as good as, say, a Forester or Outback. The tires on those cars are also geared towards performance rather than winter grip.
If you really want to get around in the snow, there are better Subarus to choose from than a WRX. OEM tires are all-seaons, summer only for the STi. Just keep that in mind when shopping around.
Weight and ground clearance has definite advantages in the snow.
Anything can be canceled out by driving like an idiot, though.
I think a big factor now is those SUVs that were popular a few years ago have now been handed down to the teenage sons and daughters of the original owners.
It will only get worse.
TOKYO (Kyodo) -- Toyota Motor Corp.'s Prius hybrid surrendered its leadership in Japan's passenger car market in January for the first time in 20 months, with Honda Motor Co.'s subcompact Fit likely to capture the top slot, industry sources said Tuesday.
A Volvo XC90 tried to drive over me, literally. His tire dented my front fender.
Replaced the panel, and a week later a minivan backed in to it. I didn't even need to get an estimate! Same panel! LOL
Those Fit sales include the new Fit Hybrid - a model they should bring here. I don't get why Honda has 3 hybrids and none of them are 5 door hatches. Two small sedans (redundancy, much?) and the CR-Z.
Went to the Philly Auto Show yesterday and sat in a CR-Z for the first time. Kinda neat techie feel to it, but ditch the batteries and put in a bigger engine and call it the the CR-X to get me interested.
FWIW the show was empty. I think the Auto Industry is still very much in a recession. The *only* car I had to wait in line to check out was the Fiat 500. Loved it!
Today I saw a new Optima on the road. Looks very nice - even in the slush we had going...
Can't wait for the Abarth.
Says Honda grew 5%, well behind Toyota's 8% gains.
MONTVALE, N.J., Feb. 1, 2011 /PRNewswire/ -- Mercedes-Benz USA (MBUSA) continued its strong momentum of the past year with a 14% increase for January 2011 (17,273 vs. 15,158).
And by the way Toyota recorded sales increase of 17% compared to Jan 2010. To me again it doesnt matter.. What matters is the sales at the end of 2011. :surprise:
Not until January 2012. Until then we take it one month at a time. And the pie chart was from a Lexus forum posted by a person that has 4 Lexus. One month sales may be irrelevant to you. However the car makers all post their monthly sales. I will try to be the first when the Feb 2011 sales come out good bad or indifferent. I also own a Lexus. Drove it today as a matter of fact. As well as a Sequoia. I am a firm believer in competition to make things better for all.
The Toyota Division posted January sales of 102,996 units, an increase of 23.7 percent over the same period last year. The Lexus Division reported sales of 12,860 units, a decrease of 17.1 percent from last January.
http://pressroom.toyota.com/pr/tms/toyota-reports-january-sales-191603.aspx
PS
Mercedes kicked Lexus butt in January.
Lexus' average incentive cost during the month was $2,752, 78 percent more than last year, TrueCar said.
BMW incentive spending fell 20 percent to $3,434 while Mercedes’ fell 3.5 percent to $3,329, according to TrueCar.
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-02-01/mercedes-bmw-start-sales-year-faster- -than-toyota-s-lexus-brand.html
Not sure what you are driving at? My wife bought one of the first LS400s to come into San Diego in 1989. She got it for less than it cost Toyota to build it. All in Lexus' desire to beat Mercedes. I am with fintail on this. What is the net profit per car sold? That is really the only important figure if you plan to stay in the car business. The guy that sells 100,000 widgets at a loss is not doing as well as the guy that sells one widget at a profit.