Options

Toyota on the mend?

1107108110112113319

Comments

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    There's this too:

    "In addition to electronics, Toyota's so-called black boxes are likely to be under scrutiny in upcoming hearings. As a Newsweek article points out only Toyota can read the data from the onboard black boxes. In contrast, Detroit automakers have black boxes that can be read by outsiders with commercially available tools. The information in the black boxes is used in accident reconstruction"

    Toyota vs. NHTSA: The Posturing Begins (AutoObserver)
  • sbell4sbell4 Member Posts: 446
    2011 Toyota Camry are on some dealers lot already.
  • beachfish2beachfish2 Member Posts: 177
    Straight from Toyota. (I know, I know, some of you think they're lying. Get over it.)

    http://pressroom.toyota.com/pr/tms/toyota/toyota-announces-pricing-for-all-15016- 0.aspx

    "The MSRP for all 2011 Camry models will increase by $200, or an average increase of 0.9 percent. The base MSRP for the Camry Hybrid will be $26,400, reflecting an increase of $250, or 1.0 percent. The prices for the Camry and Camry Hybrid will take effect when production begins January 6, 2010 for Japan-sourced vehicles and February 1, 2010 for North American production. The 2011 Camry and Camry Hybrid will begin arriving at Toyota dealers in late January."
  • silvercoupesilvercoupe Member Posts: 326
    2011 Toyota Camry are on some dealers lot already.

    I haven't seen any locally yet. Several local dealer websites do show 2011 models to begin arriving in March.
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 14,127
    edited February 2010
    WOW...what a turn of events. 2011 camrys hitting the lots in JANUARY...FEBRUARY?

    On top of all the 2010 Carmys still sitting on dealers lots that they can't sell, they bring out the next model year, and they cost more. Talk about screwing your dealers.......just WOW!

    I stand corrected.....just when I think Toyota is turning the corner.......I find something like this and think...."Toyota really doesn't care......this time, for their dealers".
    2024 Kia EV6 GT-Line AWD Long Range
  • silvercoupesilvercoupe Member Posts: 326
    WOW...what a turn of events. 2011 camrys hitting the lots in JANUARY...FEBRUARY?

    No need to get alarmed. The 2010 Camrys began hitting dealer lots about this time last year.

    As a matter of fact, one of the local dealers already has some 2011 SE's presold.
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    Starting the model year early has been a recent Camry tradition. The redesigned 2007 models were introduced in March 2006. Similarly, both the 2009 and 2010 models came out in late January or early February of the corresponding calendar year. Apparently, the same is now true for the 2011 model. Only the 2008 model came out in the summer or early fall of 2007 (and had a truncated run).

    This puts Toyota on target for a newly redesigned Camry as an early 2012 model about a year from now.
  • smarty666smarty666 Member Posts: 1,503
    edited February 2010
    Toyota is really going to have to get the redesigned 2012 model exactly right inside and outside or they definitely will not be on the top again; the freshened Ford Fusion and the 2011 Sonata is a real game changer that will kill the Camry if they don't come up with something unique!! plus, the Altima will be redesigned for 2012 also giving Toyota heavy competition!

    plus, I think the Malibu and Accord are on the same schedule so they won't get their redesigns till 2013, well I'm not quite sure about the Malibu but that is def the Accord's schedule so that would give Chevy and Honda a year of seeing the 2012 Camry to try and compete with it!
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Your vehicle has been reliable thus far and fits your needs. Why would you jump from the frying pan into the fire? Plus you're fully capable of shifting to neutral if the absolute worst happened.

    Part of me just wants a change. It never really bothered me about the UA until creeping up that steep fire trail to the ranch. What would happen if it went berzerk right at a hairpin turn over looking a several hundred foot canyon? Would I be fast enough to shift and brake at the same time? Even brake over ride may not be enough. All these reports does not build confidence in Toyota's DBW system. It may be better than most. The record does not show that. Don't get me wrong. I am not going to take a big loss just to get out of this vehicle. That just does not happen with me. I will keep it till it is the same age as the LS400 before I do that. I will push Toyota to upgrading my DBW to have brake over ride if they ever get their act together. I am also going to bug them about the stalling when I crest a hill. It happened a couple times going up that long steep fire trail. That is becoming an issue for me.
  • jmarounjmaroun Member Posts: 151
    edited February 2010
    I think Toyota is being taken to the cleaners as they deserve. Toyota should pay the harshest penalties. Only in this way do top dogs learn that they can't mess with the people and get away with it. Being number 1 is nice but it costs. It's called Responsibility and Ethics! I hope all these big companies are watching and learnin from the fall of their giant brethren rival Toyota. They too can befall a similar fate, as some should; but are fortunate enough not to be in the lime light at the moment. Or should I say lemon light? :lemon: For example, I wont mention BMW's faulty high pressure fuel pump failure which has yet to cause a fatality but according to many owners has almost done so over the past four years. Yeah..I hope they're all poopin in their pants and learnin to take heed of their responsibilities for the safety of the people of which many are loyal customers.

    You get nothin but bird Toyota, for not giving props. :mad:

    Joseph
    San Diego
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 14,127
    No company, no matter what they produce and sell are perfect. I understand that.

    It's the "hide and seek" game Toyota is playing that I think most are alarmed about. Toyota has some serious safety issues that need to be addressed.....ones that have either cost lives and accidents, or ones that will in the future. These issues not only affect owners, but anyone else who's on the road near these vehicles.

    If toyota would open themselves to an unbiased, independent inspection as to the real culprit in these incidences, and agree to comply with their findings, I think we'd all be feeling better about their situation.

    However, they've chosen their road. It looks like they're going to be forced, one way or the other, to disclose fully. Then, this whole recall deal is going to be repeated for them.....something that makes no sense to me, but apparently does to Toyota.

    I'm sure there will be fines, probably record breaking ones....at least in this country. And, perhaps there will be more coming where their cars are also affected by the massive recalls....Japan, China, the countries of Europe.

    Don't know if that will be enough for Toyota to change their ways. I hope so, for their customers' sake, their dealers' sake, and their own sake.
    2024 Kia EV6 GT-Line AWD Long Range
  • revitrevit Member Posts: 476
    But Toyota still thinks it has done nothing wrong...its the driver, its the floor mats, its the pedals, its the.....
  • revitrevit Member Posts: 476
    By Ralph Vartabedian, Ken Bensinger and Jerry Hirsch

    In an extraordinary challenge to Toyota Motor Corp., federal regulators Tuesday launched three far-reaching investigations into both the timeliness and the adequacy of the company's recalls for problems that can cause sudden acceleration in its vehicles.

    The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration demanded a massive volume of Toyota documents, including engineering reports, internal communications and customer complaints involving sudden acceleration. The agency also asked Toyota to identify employees with knowledge of unintended acceleration.

    Regulators said they were examining whether Toyota acted promptly in ordering a string of safety recalls and whether the company fully considered other potential causes of sudden acceleration besides interference from floor mats and sticking gas pedals.

    "We are seeking to determine whether Toyota viewed the underlying defects too narrowly . . . without fully considering the broader issue of sudden acceleration and any associated safety-related defects that warrant recalls," said NHTSA in one of three letters to Toyota.

    The action represents a significant shift in the agency's approach to the automaker. NHTSA officials opened at least eight investigations into sudden acceleration in Toyota and Lexus vehicles in the last seven years, but closed six of them without any finding of a defect.

    Now, with congressional investigators and others looking into both Toyota's and NHTSA's actions, the federal agency is turning up the heat.

    "NHTSA is saying it wants to make sure it has all of the information. That is an unprecedented step for the agency," said Ricardo Martinez, who served for six years as NHTSA administrator in the 1990s. "When I was administrator, Toyota was one of the better citizens, but the issues they are dealing with now are very disappointing. They are not acting like the Toyota that built the brand of trust."

    In the letters to Chris Tinto, vice president of Toyota Motor North America Inc., the agency asked why the company waited years to address a growing volume of complaints about sudden acceleration crashes in its vehicles.

    One of the letters questions whether the unintended acceleration problem extends far beyond floor mats and sticking pedals, "and how Toyota assessed potential electromagnetic interference" as a potential cause.

    After years of rising motorist complaints, Toyota began its recalls to address sudden acceleration in 2007, but that initial action was limited to two models comprising 55,000 cars. Since then, the company has incrementally expanded the list of vehicles and model years subject to recall and the reasons for the recalls, starting last September.

    The growing size and breadth of the recalls have fueled questions about inconsistencies in the company's position and whether it was fully disclosing everything it knew about the safety problems promptly.

    "Only Toyota knows what they knew and when they knew it," said Nicole Nason, former NHTSA chief at the time of the 2007 recall. "Manufacturers have to give NHTSA whatever safety defect information they have as soon as they have it. This seems to be a problem between NHTSA and Toyota."

    Toyota spokeswoman Cindy Knight said the company would cooperate with the probe.

    "Toyota takes its responsibility to advance vehicle safety seriously and to alert government officials of any safety issue in a timely manner," she said in a statement. "We are reviewing NHTSA's request and will cooperate to provide all the information they have requested."

    The new investigation by NHTSA also extends the scope of the probe beyond the U.S., where NHTSA normally focuses its attentions.

    "We expect that all manufacturers address automotive safety issues quickly and in a forthright manner," said David Strickland, NHTSA's administrator.

    NHTSA has the power to subpoena information from automakers or punish them for compliance failures, but it rarely exercises it. The agency can fine an automaker as much as $16 million for infractions, but the largest fine it ever levied, against General Motors in 2004, was for $1 million. That fine was for delaying a recall of windshield wipers.

    NHTSA said this month that it would consider civil fines against Toyota for its handling of the unintended acceleration issue and potentially dragging its feet on announcing the recalls.

    The new investigation is almost certain to deepen Toyota's image problem, which is already causing a steep slide in sales, a sharp drop in its share price and has even threatened its vaunted financial ratings.

    Sudden acceleration in Toyota vehicles has been blamed for at least 34 fatalities, according to complaints filed with NHTSA. The safety agency has received more than 2,000 complaints from Toyota owners about their cars lurching and speeding unintentionally.
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 14,127
    revit....it'a a real shame it had to come to this. But, it's pretty clear that up until this point, Toyota wasn't going to cooperate unless forced to.

    Just heard on the news this a.m. that Mr. Toyoda didn't think it was necessary to meet with Congress, and he won't be doing so. Not necessary? His company is involved in the most massive global safety recall of vehicles ever recorded. To him, that's not enough to to answer questions before Congress in one of the largest (if not THE largest) markets for Toyota's vehicles.

    Again, just when I think they're on the right path, the old arrogance and "duck and cover" routine resurfaces.

    Mr Toyoda's company is facing the most massive potential fines ever levied by at least the U.S. gov't, as well as in other countries. Yet, that's not important enough for him to meet with our Congress.

    Unbelievable.
    2024 Kia EV6 GT-Line AWD Long Range
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    This Toyoda dude, reminds me of Nero. I wonder if he plays the violin. :P

    Such arrogance. I wonder if he thinks he is more powerful than Rick Wagoner?
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,351
    edited February 2010
    Talk about arrogance. I heard Toyota was changing the name of the Camry to the Camrykaze. :)

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • doggrandmadoggrandma Member Posts: 144
    I just hope the race to the bottom for cost cutting is over for all manufacturers. The last few years have been a frenzy of looking for ways to lower prices and quality in all manufactured goods has suffered. Look at all the problems with the stuff coming out of China as a good example.

    The GM guy is right. These problems make all companies look bad. Right now I am holding off purchasing any vehicle for fear of getting a lemon. My current car has been great, so even though I need a larger vehicle, I am hesitant to get a new one.

    Unfortunately, if Toyota's quest for better quality means higher prices, then people will probably buy something else. Such is human nature. :confuse:
  • doggrandmadoggrandma Member Posts: 144
    Mr. Toyoda should tell Congress to go jump in a lake. I am so tired of the gas bags in Congress posturing in front of cameras while they rake some corporate guys over the coals. When have they ever produced anything? All they do is take our money and enrich themselves, the hypocrites. :mad:
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I just hope the race to the bottom for cost cutting is over

    "Edmunds.com CEO Jeremy Anwyl suggests in a piece posted Thursday on AutoObserver that consumers should prepare themselves to pay for the increased safety the furor over the Toyota revelations seems to be demanding. And they will likely have to pay for the correspondingly amped-up regulatory oversight that also will be an inevitable outcome once Washington gets involved at the end of the month."

    So, you'll probably get your wish about car prices rising. (link)
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 14,127
    edited February 2010
    dog...Toyota will get their chance, just as soon as all the documents that Toyota is supplying reaches the NHTSA. Once all of that is sifted through, I'm sure Toyota can say whatever they want to Congress. Now, Toyota might not like what Congress says to them (in the form of fines). But, they will get their chance to say whatever they want.

    I'd suggest to toyota that they might want to use just a bit of humility in their statements, though. Congress can very well stipulate how Toyota will conduct business in the U.S.. And, it might not be to Toyota's liking, if I were to guess.

    Steve...as competitive as the car landscape is in this country, Toyota's going to find themselves at a disadvantage when it comes to raising prices. But, we'll see.
    2024 Kia EV6 GT-Line AWD Long Range
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited February 2010
    Toyota's going to find themselves at a disadvantage when it comes to raising prices. But, we'll see.

    The price for the 2011 Camry that's coming out shortly went up a couple of hundred bucks and they seem to be holding to that.

    But we haven't seen the incentive and extended warranty rumors come to pass yet either.

    I think Toyoda didn't go to Congress because he pretty much flubbed all his other public speaking attempts.
  • beachfish2beachfish2 Member Posts: 177
    "I am so tired of the gas bags in Congress posturing in front of cameras while they rake some corporate guys over the coals. When have they ever produced anything? All they do is take our money and enrich themselves, the hypocrites."

    I agree. Looking at the very high percentage of the members of Congress that are millionaires, they likely don't buy too many Toyotas either. I wouldn't feed their grandstanding and televised pleas for votes either. Witch hunt comes to mind. They want to have hearings before they have any facts to talk about.

    The free market should be left alone to work. If Toyota can't satisfy its potential customers, then sales will drop when they buy other brands.

    John
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    The price for the 2011 Camry that's coming out shortly went up a couple of hundred bucks and they seem to be holding to that.

    Supposedly the 2011 Camry is out. I checked the large dealers in San Diego and none show up on their inventory. They got lots of 2010 Camrys to unload and a few 2009 models left. Has the NHTSA given them the official go ahead for their lame shim fix? Last I read the Feds want to see all the documentation on the UA cases. Not all failures are covered or limited to the fixes they have come up with.
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 14,127
    Steve....Mr Toyoda received his MBA from Babson College. So, he spent at least a decent portion of time in the U.S. One would think he had to be fluent in English to get an MBA from a U.S. institution.

    So, that begs the question of whether his "halting" English is a well rehearsed act (to sidestep answers to the hard questions)?
    2024 Kia EV6 GT-Line AWD Long Range
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    The free market should be left alone to work.

    We lost that a long time ago. It is all manipulation and lobbyist controlled. It should be obvious that Toyota has not been doing their part at the Lobby trough. The GM and C bailout was totally contrary to free market.
  • xluxlu Member Posts: 457
    It could add another 1.3 million cars to the recall.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited February 2010
    Mr Toyoda received his MBA from Babson College.

    George Bush isn't dumb either, but some people shouldn't be speechifying too much. :)

    Wow, that many Xlu? I was expecting under 10,000.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    edited February 2010
    Toyota already recalled 95k 2009-2010 Corollas for defective brakes in August 2009. They only recalled cars sold in cold climate states. So you have a 2009 Corolla and move to Colorado your brakes fail and you had no idea they were recalled.

    Is Toyota doing any cold weather testing before they dump cars on the market? I remember BMW, VW, Subaru coming up to the Arctic and testing their new cars for weeks at a time. Never saw Toyota up there.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,681
    >Steve....Mr Toyoda received his MBA from Babson College. So, he spent at least a decent portion of time in the U.S. One would think he had to be fluent in English to get an MBA from a U.S. institution.
    >So, that begs the question of whether his "halting" English is a well rehearsed act (to sidestep answers to the hard questions)?

    That pretty well stops the argument of many that toyo is just as good as any US car company since they build their cars here. Their president refuses to come to US for hearing? What are they gonna do, command that he come to DC to meet with them. :P

    That's what they'd do to the US car company execs. Look how they treated them and some people thought it was hilarious. ;)

    So the money goes to Japan and stays there just like the company president toyota stays there makes pretty good logic. :blush:

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 14,127
    imid....Mr Toyoda said he's coming to the U.S.in a few weeks. But, he's going to talk to the dealers and employees. Not to Congress. So, he's already going to be here. I'm sure Congress is feeling really put out by that. And, I'd guess there will be some sort of repercussions from it....."oh, you want to do business in the U.S.? But, you don't want to talk to the legislators?"

    I'm thinking whether it's public or not, he's going to have to talk to U.S. legislators, one way or another.
    2024 Kia EV6 GT-Line AWD Long Range
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,937
    is strong and has no issues to worry about.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Maybe Babson College is a school whose application is printed on the back of a matchbook cover? Mr. Toyoda should be able to speak the Queen's English.
  • ingvaringvar Member Posts: 205
    Toyota is paying for ignorance and hiding issues for a long time. I love to watch people who had "problem free car", because "it's Toyota it never breaks" blaming Toyota and counting issues one after another. One of my co-workers had "perfect" car and overnight his car become "garbage" :)
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    image

    Mr. Toy Yoda!
  • beachfish2beachfish2 Member Posts: 177
    "Is Toyota doing any cold weather testing before they dump cars on the market?"

    Fwiw, from what I've read, Toyota does as much or more computer simulation testing than real world testing.

    John
  • watkinstwatkinst Member Posts: 119
    Shhhh!!!! your not supose to say that...

    It's cheaper and more comfy testing a car in a lab vs say flying it to Alaska during the dead of winter and letting the locals beat on it for a little bit.

    But hey Toyota knows that their landcruiser gets sent to places where vehicles are subjected to things we would never even consider or imagining. And yes its funny how that version of the landcruiser never ends up here in the States but they still have the crazy high asking price as if its actually the real thing -

    Its MARKETING FOLKS - nothing to see here -we are walking - walking - keep moving people.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    That pretty well stops the argument of many that toyo is just as good as any US car company since they build their cars here. Their president refuses to come to US for hearing? What are they gonna do, command that he come to DC to meet with them.

    Perhaps he saw what happened when the heads of the US automakers visited Washington last year and decided it was not such a smart idea? :P
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 14,127
    lemko...you're killing me, here....LOL!

    I wonder if Mr. Toyoda is thinking...."hey, can President Obama fire me, too?"

    Again, in the long run, I think this is going to be good for Toyota. They'll learn that big business comes with big responsibilities. They MUST build safe cars, at a minimum. That's something which seems to be an option for Toyota. They'll have to go back to building quality....something that's seemed to have been forgotten by them the last few years. And hopefully, they'll become more responsible in their reporting of issues so their customers can take the proper precautions until Toyota can fix the problems.

    Those are all things you'd think they would have learned by now. Perhaps they need a refresher course. An awful lot of customers have been hurt (both physically and financially) by their vehicles. Their dealers have been put in a very precarious situation. And, their employees are losing confidence in their leadership...at least here in the U.S.

    This is an opportunity for Toyota. So far, they've flushed that opportunity away. Let's see if they can somehow recover it.
    2024 Kia EV6 GT-Line AWD Long Range
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    It's cheaper and more comfy testing a car in a lab vs say flying it to Alaska during the dead of winter and letting the locals beat on it for a little bit.

    That is exactly what BMW and Subaru did. They would hire big graders to go out on this lake and cut a course for them. They would try all different tires etc and race around that course at -20 to -40 degrees. BMW would have camo on to keep us from taking pictures of the latest models. Subaru and VW did not seem to worry about that. The testing would last several weeks. Then they would load up the cars and fly back to where ever they came from. Testing at 40 Below Zero would be tough to simulate in a computer model. Evidently it has not worked out too well for Toyota. Brakes failing in cold weather should have been caught before being sold. More lawsuits to settle.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    edited February 2010
    It looks like Toyota is late to the party. GM and Mercedes both had a lot of electronic issues in the past. Toyota has been able to keep them under wraps until their DBW systems started screwing up. They tried to make it look like a simple floor mat issue. Then when they failed it was a defective throttle controller. What or who will they blame next? Who's fault is all the braking problems with Corolla, Prius, Lexus hybrids, Etc?

    I can tell you that Denso NAVs and CD players are sub standard. They are not safety issues so the consumer is forced to live with the problems.
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 14,127
    gagrice....I agree about Denso's (non critical" electronics (like NAV systems). They're woeful. That comes from personal experience with them in GM vehicles (namely a Cadillac). I hope GM has dumped them.

    If it's any indication to Denso's other electronics development, Toyota is in an even bigger world of hurt in any vehicle using Denso electro-mechanical parts.
    2024 Kia EV6 GT-Line AWD Long Range
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    On the JD Powers NAV roundup, they were rated at the absolute bottom. Looks like the CTS owners got lucky with Alpine NAV. The rest of the Caddy lineup was not so lucky. Here are the standings for 2009.

    http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings/Navigation-System-Usage-and-Satisfaction-Ra- tings

    How many strikes does Toyota get before they are OUT?
  • greg128greg128 Member Posts: 546
    You are right: Toyota made its reputation using overengineered parts that lasted and lasted.

    I don't think that Toyota overengineered the rusty frames on Tacomas and Tundras.
    Seems that they were underengineered.
  • PMOPMO Member Posts: 278
    It's me a question ? Edmond's has had 12 Toyota's in its fleet and not one report on this ? That was until the look at mat location, as a Retired GM employee looks like the deck of cards were stacked ?then this Hearing I understand the stocks held by members of the hearing have thousands of shares in Toyota. and were involved in Toyota locating in the USA
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,681
    I just heard on CBS and ABC news that Corolla has steering troubles. Lots of them being affected. Of course, they're not sure if it involves SAFETY so toyota hasn't effected a recall yet. Is that a good summary?

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • silvercoupesilvercoupe Member Posts: 326
    I pulled this chart from another forum. Apparently came from Sean Kane's company, Vehicle Safety Information Resource Center, LLC. Maybe Congress needs to be putting some heat on another auto manufacturer.

    http://www.safetyresearch.net/Library/SUAComplaints.pdf

    Draw your own conclusions.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,681
    I just read more about the Corolla steering problem. It sounds like steering wander making it difficult to stay in a lane due to overcorrecting. That's exactly why one of our marching band directors sold her Highlander. She said it wouldn't go in a straight line. She bought a Kia to replace it.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • silvercoupesilvercoupe Member Posts: 326
    My daughter-in-law has a 2010 Corolla S. She has not complained about the steering at all. As a matter of fact, she loves the car.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,709
    from 1999 when I bought my 1999 Kia Sephia to now. Everyone honked on Kia and said they were cheap and nasty and no good.

    Is this one of those what goes around comes around things, or something much more cold and calculatingly interesting in a back-firing plugged-up sort of a way?

    What a difference a decade can make, car nuts. :surprise:

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • driver56driver56 Member Posts: 408
    That is what my 98 Sienna did. My local dealer explained to me that it was the "nature of the beast". I sold the Van in 07.
Sign In or Register to comment.