Toyota Fearing Hyundai?

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  • harrycheztharrychezt Member Posts: 405
    http://joongangdaily.joins.com/200502/01/200502012154131779900090509051.html

    says Toyota wanted to share technology with Hyundai(and visa-versa) yet Hyundai said no thanks!

    Now, before you all go crazy here.... I own a Sonata, and the 04 is Not as good(NVH and MPG -wise as our 99, but the 06 is better than the 04, but still not like the 99 was...the 99 was more like the XG350 back in the day)as our 99 GLS V6 was.

    Also, my next vehicle might be another Toyota(Scion) maybe GM (pontiac) or a Suzuki, even(just do not care for the "looks like honda-toyota-acura" sonata).

    Trying to be nice: if you have any negative comments(and there probably will be many),if you can back It Up , please do so, like I always do, with links from fairly reliable sites, not" johnny whacko's wonderful world of cars" or something of this nature.

    Facts, Not Friction.
    Take care/Not Offense.
    DAV
    83-94
  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHMember Posts: 21,972
    Says so right here

    If it's on the internet, it must be true! :P

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • harrycheztharrychezt Member Posts: 405
    well, let me see, TWO RELIABLE SOURCES. If edmunds said it, would you say the same thing?
    YOU PROVE THESE SOURCES WRONG,(WHICH YOU CAN'T) AND I'LL ADMIT YOU'RE RIGHT(WHICH YOU AREN'T)! :P

    In the old school days, it's called PUT UP or Shut-Up :P

    This news was also on autoextremeist a few months back, if anyone cares to go look for it, and a few others sites, like detnews.com/autoinsiders.

    Difference between me and most are i post facts, not garbage.
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,435
    They should. The Accent hybrid should be here by this time next year, and the Sonata hybrid not far behind that.
  • 1racefan1racefan Member Posts: 932
    Fear I think is a strong word. I think it is more of a situation of Toyota recognizing that Hyundai is significantly better than they were 10 years ago, and wants to keep an eye on them. Plus, there probably is a certain level of respect that Toyata has for Hyundai as well.

    Maybe Toyota is blowing smoke up Hyundai's butt about this "sharing information deal"??? Maybe they just want to get a glimpse as to how far along Hyundai's manufacturing actually is - not out of fear, but just as part of keeping tabs on their competitors???? Any good company knows to keep tabs on ALL of the players in their market. On the other hand, maybe Toyota is getting apprehensive??? I don't discredit that story at all, I just don't neccessarily take everything I read at face value - regardless of the source.

    Let's face it, Hyundai most likely isn't going to surpass Toyota tomorrow, next year, or within the next 5 years (especially without a reputable pickup truck in their lineup). However, 10 years from now and out is a whole different ball game. It will take at least another 5 years for us to get hard core information about the long term reliability of Hyundai's products (by then, the '01 & '02 Hyundais will be 10 years old, and high mileage - and I think many will say that around '01-'02 is when their cars got a lot better).
  • carlisimocarlisimo Member Posts: 1,280
    The reality of the industry is, if you relax for just one second, you fall behind.

    I think Toyota knows they have to outdo themselves every year if they're going to keep growing. We've seen lots of automakers relax for a few years. They've all gotten into trouble, from Nissan going broke to Mercedes Benz getting overtaken by BMW. Almost always, it's been the loser's fault more than the winner's deserved prize.

    That said, Hyundais are more similar to Toyota than most other brands' cars (in feel and mission). So they stand the most to gain if Toyota slips up.
  • harrycheztharrychezt Member Posts: 405
    http://paultan.org/archives/2005/09/20/hyundai-rejects-toyota-offer/

    Paul tan is iffy, kind of breaks my "no whacky sites"?
    It does claim Hyundai PR spoke of this . Maybe Hyundai's PR is lying? LOL.

    Look, the deal is, it is your duty to prove this fact wrong. You, nor anybody else will prove "this is phoney", because it ain't!

    If I had known about this, I would looked, and saved, every news bit i could.
    detnews.com/autoinsiders/ is a pain to back log search. unless you know the exact date, for example. :mad:

    Whatever.
    People will believe whatever they want to believe.

    Me? I could care less any more.
    I just buy what I like, I just thought that with all the Hyundai/Kia bashers here, saying these cars= Yugos....
    and then reading Toyota wanted to share technology....something was amiss.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaMember Posts: 12,726
    Toyota is always keeping close tabs on its competitors, that is one of the reasons it has been so successful.

    While the U.S. market is important, Toyota is not worried about the U.S. The only folks that should be very worried about Hyundai/Kia are GM and Ford, for now. I am looking at a 10-year span with that remark.

    Beginning in 10 years, if the currently new Hyundais show they have gone the distance, and are also being built as well as Toyota, Toyota will need to step it up. Which I have no doubt it will.

    I think Toyota is worried a lot more about Hyundai on the GLOBAL stage. There Hyundai is making big inroads in the Asian markets (outside Japan) as well as increasing its presence in Europe, both places where Toyota isn't well represented and has only been able to ramp up sales slowly. The North American market is going to wane in importance a lot in the next 20 years, which is why Ford and GM are done dominating global auto sales. Toyota needs to get its global game on, especially in certain markets like those I have mentioned, a whole lot more than it has been. Hyundai is a firecracker when it comes to rapid expansion on the back of lower-priced production.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • harrycheztharrychezt Member Posts: 405
    on a search, i noticed that this subject had been covered in the first quarter of 2005, under the title "hyundai rejects toyota proposal". just an FYI, in case ya need to delete, or move, this info.
    Peace.
    DAV
    83-94

    PS: to all participants: i was not trying to be nasty(although it sounded as such, in some spots, on my replies,etc).
    I just get angry with flaming and bashing and attacking, and no one ever posts anything to back-up their rhetoric(they use rhetoric as facts, which to me, is akin to lying).
    Not cool. never was, never will be, to me, in my books.

    Am I perfect? LOL! I wish!
    So, if I mess up, and people find flaws, and can prove it via links, information other than opinion-only, I welcome it.
    Better to find out I was wrong, than go around spouting off incorrect facts. :D
  • ontopontop Member Posts: 279
    Exactly - fear ain't the word. But in my business I am always aware of what the other guy is doing and factor that into my business (if needed).

    Toyota got to be where they are for a great reason. And it won't suddenly abandon them. They're on their toes constantly.
  • harrycheztharrychezt Member Posts: 405
    I agree with you, sir.

    Overseas is where the action is right now(well, besides USA).
    I heard HyunKia combined maybe have between 4-5% of USA market( they should sell around 775,000-800,000 units this year in USA; Hyundai selling around 500,000, or a few less).

    Like I said, their cars aren't bad, but for the new prices they are asking....and what they have out, is above avg, but not excellent, yet(except maybe that Azera?).

    If they would make some of those concept cars, instead of watering them down.......

    Anyhow, U R correct.
  • harrycheztharrychezt Member Posts: 405
    the word "Fear" seems to get people's attn :D

    I used it to garner attn, and replies.

    it seems to B working? :D

    Yeah, maybe not fear, but, i think when China, Inc gets here, even HyunKia will "fear" losses of market share, eventually.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Member Posts: 17,601
    That is so right, Toyota would be wise to treat any car company as a threat just as any other car company should. Out doing yourself is not good enough, you have to out do everyone else. It looks like some interesting things are going on right now and it will be interesting to see who holds what cards 5 or 10 years from now.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Pennsylvania Furnace, PAMember Posts: 9,400
    If we get into "trying to PROVE something" mode here, we're in for trouble.

    If this is going to be a discussion, great. If this is going to be a "contest", it may not turn out so great.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    YEAH..

    RIGHT..
  • bottgersbottgers Member Posts: 2,030
    ...who wins out of all this. We do. The tougher the competition, the better the product.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Maybe they just want to get a glimpse as to how far along Hyundai's manufacturing actually is - not out of fear, but just as part of keeping tabs on their competitors???? Any good company knows to keep tabs on ALL of the players in their market.

    Whether others admit the competition or not, Hyundai is Toyota's main competitor in the world market. About 6 months ago there was an article quoting Jim Press I believe ( I'll search ) stating that it was Hyundai that Toyota was watching most closely.
    Why not GM? Obvious now.
    Honda? It's mainly a US automaker.
    DC? Too specialized on the high end. slipping in reliability.
    Nissan/Renault? Nissan,just back from the brink of extiction. Renault strong in Europe.

    Hyundai? Monster international company with financial strength and the expertise to develop high quality vehicles and components within its own keiretsu (sp) with a very favorable cost structure.

    I believe that you are correct about the 10 yr window. It will be a very different world then. The balance of economic power is moving to the China/India axis. Korea and Japan are perfectly situated to take advantage of the next boom.

    If Toyota wants to continue to grow as #1 in the world after next year they will have to take Hyundai into account at every step of the way.
  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    "Now, before you all go crazy here.... I own a Sonata, and the 04 is Not as good(NVH and MPG -wise as our 99, but the 06 is better than the 04, but still not like the 99 was...the 99 was more like the XG350 back in the day)as our 99 GLS V6 was."

    "Also, my next vehicle might be another Toyota(Scion) maybe GM (pontiac) or a Suzuki, even(just do not care for the "looks like honda-toyota-acura" sonata)."

    I like the way the new Sonata looks in black but the interior I don;t like the plastic's on the bottom half portion below the steering wheel. They have the plastic's clored black or dark grey on the top half of the speedometer and below the steering wheel I think the plastics are covered in ebony color and the bottom half of the plastic's look cheap. Why does the radio have wood grain trim on on it? The 02-05 model had too much fake wood on the interior. To me they saved all the good interior plastics for their TG luxury car.

    Uh on the topic of Toyota fearing Hyundai I think its unbelieveable. Usually Toyota doesn't fear anybody besides Honda maybe a little bit. I think toyota might be worried about Hyundai because like Toyota Hyundai has been very aggressive in their business practices like Toyota always has been.
  • harrycheztharrychezt Member Posts: 405
    about the 2 tone plastics? been seeing that in a few other cars, and not just Hyundai.
    The reason is supposedly for a less-glare dash. saem for those "rough/bumpy" dashes, like on HHR, for an example...and it is dark= less sun glare, and some say the "smooth .shiney" plastic "looks cheap"?
    Whatever.

    Some cars are all grey or black, or tan, but there are some 2 tones out there.
    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=new+cars+with+2+tone+dashboards&spell=1

    Different reasons for them, besides design, i have been told.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    Nothing to fear for at least another ten years I think, because as one improves, so does the other. A company that comes up from near death into a decent product line always seems like a rising star whereas the champion can't really make such dramatic leaps. Toyota is not a company you want to underestimate however.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaMember Posts: 12,726
    had an article this week about how it is looking quite likely now that Toyota will pass GM for global production in 2006. Really, the one that should fear Hyundai is GM.

    To be successful in the global sales race up until now, you had to be two things:
    (1) very successful in the North American market; and

    (2) a solid presence in the South Asian and European markets. Not so much Japan, which is a small stagnant market, relatively speaking.

    (1) above is the reason VW Group is sliding downhill in the standings, losing more and more sales to newer companies, like Hyundai.

    (2) above is the problem for GM and to a lesser extent Ford - they are both way too dependent on North America.

    Toyota is doing pretty well on both counts, with its European presence a weak link in the chain, as well as expanding markets like China.

    Hyundai's weakest link is probably North America, as they are expanding rapidly in other markets. They are expanding rapidly in the U.S. too, it is just that they are well behind Toyota.

    And now priorities are going to shift, as the North American is going to wane in relative importance. It will still be important to maintain a strong presence here though, I think. I wonder if Hyundai/Kia will eventually sell as many vehicles here as Toyota. If that happens, I bet it will only be as a consequence of some crisis at either GM or Ford. Hyundai will be going head to head with GM and Ford any day now in a death match!

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • delta4delta4 Member Posts: 138
    harrychezt - thanks for the link and the very informative article. The link below ties further credence to the competivtive threat that Hyundai poses to Toyota and also sees declines in Honda's dominance. Written by Dan Lienert who writes for Forbes.

    The Big Trend
  • harrycheztharrychezt Member Posts: 405
    Good article.
    Glad you liked the article I posted. Someone mentioned this could turn out to be a bad thread, and someone else thought it was a flamer thread, but it isn't meant to be.
    That was why I posted this article, which kind of backs up what i was saying, and your's helped, too.

    The Big Trend article reflects Many other source's opinions in the industry.
    I do not know if Mitsubishi will fold,like it siad, but hook up with a Chinese company? Could perhaps work.

    DAV
  • delta4delta4 Member Posts: 138
    Actually I'm not surprised that skeptics still abound and may even wince at the thought that Hyunai is viewed as an up and coming competitive threat to Toyota's market share. This fact is made more credible though when the admission comes from the market leader itself, Toyota.

    This is a good thread and made even better when factual sources can be cited especially when it comes to providing others with valuable information on important developments in the automotive industry and Hyundai's resurgence and growth in the U.S. market.
  • tenpin288tenpin288 Member Posts: 804
    Let me throw this one into the mix:

    From USA Today Money section 12/20/05:

    "There's this global paranoia," says Michael Robinet, a CSM vice president. Toyota executives are especially worried about the South Koreans — which have the Hyundai and Kia brands in the USA — because of their fast growth.

    Here's a link to the full article about Toyota:

    Toyota Article

    Little snippets like the quote from the aformentioned article have been seen in many other articles and quotes from Toyota over the last year or so. All the better for the buying public in general.
  • harrycheztharrychezt Member Posts: 405
    yes, the buying public.
    We all benefit. Toyota saying they worry about HyunKia means people who may not have taken 'em into consideration now may? Also, I noticed Toyota has some sales recently, and Hyundai had 4K off Sonata(cash back, up to 4K, plus arguing, could save up to 5000+). Get an LX Sonata V6 for the price of a 4 cylinder Camry(w/o leather, etc).
    And the others gotta have sales, make better vehicles, etc.

    Hey, on that Toyota Article, noticed even Suzuki made some cash, about on par of Kia.
  • delta4delta4 Member Posts: 138
    It seems that Hyundai's strategy is to push price pressure on both Honda and Toyota from the perspective of offering increased content with lower MSRP, while providing parity on quality. This is a tried and true formula that we see at the retail level particularly when viewed at the macro level.

    For example, Walmart and Super Target stores now carry grocery items at a lower cost to the consumer and their strategy has begun to erode profits and market share of the established supermarket retailers.

    The significance here is that one can shop not just for personal, household and electronic items but groceries as well, all under one roof. The consumer wins because they now have a wider selection, more choices comparable to what they're used to but at a lower cost.

    This example circles back to what the Hyundai strategy is based on and why Toyota and Honda are both worried about holding on to future market share and profits.

    By-the-way I wanted to mention that I picked up the original thread you started through Hyundai News Topix.net website.
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Member Posts: 9,359
    .... I don't think Yota or Honda are worried about Hyun/Kia ..l.o.l... but I do know they are watching any manufacturer that's in the market place showing any growth ...

    As far as a "strategy"(?) ... anytime you put a vehicle in the market place for $2,000/$4,000 less then the competitors you're going to get buyers for one reason and one reason only - payments ..... it's not the difference in price, it's the difference in payments - that's what sells cars - at first ...

    You have to remember, this is Hyun/Kia's 3rd swing at the bat in 15 short years and I wouldn't call 2 bankruptcies in 10 years as any feat of accomplishment for Kia .... but then again, Korea's government works on a totally different program than most and washing the slate perfectly clean on 2 different occasions is pretty nifty work, "if" you can get it ..l.o.l.....

    Right now Hyun/Kia is "buying" into as much as the market as possible ... Hyundai Finance is buying anyone with a pulse (and some that don't) .. 20%+ of their vehicles are in the rental car business, and even with all of this good press, they still have the largest MBB/NW (Manufacturers Buy-back, No Warranty) volume in the industry, they clog-up the auctions from Boston to San Bernadino and on the whole, their reliability factor is still faaaar south of average and their resale is less than that .... but like Dan Rather, it just takes a good Press Man to make it all go away ........



    Terry ;)
  • harrycheztharrychezt Member Posts: 405
    hey, heard that it is/was no more than 15% for total sales of Hyundai's to fleet rentals, back when mr O'Neill was in charge just a few short years ago?

    Anyhow, Hyundai's does not seem to need that 20+%(????) who had buy backs"...see this link below:
    Retention:
    Hyundai is 5th place, only 1% behind Chevy, and not too far from Toyota, Honda.

    http://www.jdpower.com/news/releases/pressrelease.asp?ID=2005249

    Like I said 10,000 times before, I am not a Hyundai-only type(or Honda, or Scion, or anything else, since in 30 years, I have seen too many people get burned, maybe not many, on at least one model car from one maker, including myself, even from the likes of Nissan). So this is not a cheer leading deal for Hyundai. Just amazed ,though, at how they are doing, versus , say , Isuzu, Mitsubishi, and a few others.

    As for buy backs, they had better not have as many as you stated, at least in a few years, when they unleash their Hybrid cars(see bottom of page).
    http://worldwide.hyundai-motor.com/common/html/about/news_event/press_read_2005_- - 08.html

    Or better not mess this up:
    http://www.allpar.com/mopar/world-engine.html
    GEMA : Using Hyundai blocks, and each company tweaks the intake ,etc...
    Joint venture in Dundee, MI.
    Hope that Caliber/Compass don't need all of those "buy backs", or Mistu, or Hyundai.
    :confuse:
  • delta4delta4 Member Posts: 138
    ".... I don't think Yota or Honda are worried about Hyun/Kia ..l.o.l... but I do know they are watching any manufacturer that's in the market place showing any growth ..." rroyce10

    Honda and Toyota are “worried" at the moment but they are more "worried" about the near to distant future as Toyota in particular is known to do. Here are some figures and facts that substantiate what this discussion is based on: In 1998, Hyundai ranked number 12 among global manufacturers, selling 1.3 million vehicles (including those of its sister company, Kia Motors)" according to Forbes.

    Last year, it was number 7 worldwide... with sales of just over 3.1 million vehicles" (from article titled 'Last Laugh,' Joann Muller & Robyn Meredith, Forbes, April 25th, 2005). Calendar year 2003 made Hyundai only the fourth import franchise ever to exceed 400,000 annual units in the United States.

    Go back in time, and Hyundai has been in a similarly enviable position before. Its first three years on the U.S. market were inspired, with a rapid growth rate (as Ward's Auto World charted recently) that was quite a contrast to the gradual launches of Honda; Toyota, and even Kia.

    Hyundai stumbled after finding early success in the U.S. with 1990 Sales tumbling to a crippling 100,000 units due to all kinds of quality related issues. (source: wards Auto, & Forbes.com).

    Fast forward fifteen years today finds Hyundai back on track, now listed as the fourth largest import brand, with the opening of its first U.S. Auto plant in Alabama, comprising of two million square feet, at a cost of 1.1 billion dollars. This plant currently staffs more than 2,000 full-time employees with more to come once full production is ramped up to produce not only the newly re-designed Sonata but re-designed Santa Fe as well. Manufacturers who go bankrupt can hardly afford this level of investment if they are unable to deliver increased sales year-over-year, especially if the product they sell is not native to that country and quality has not drastically improved.

    Price is the first consideration the car buyer is attracted but in today’s market place price must also compete with quality. Car buyers today are demanding both. This is why standard stability control and six standard air bags, including seat-mounted side-impact and side curtain units, and active head restraints are included in the new Sonata. ***Note that four of those six are optional on America's current mainstream best-seller, the Toyota Camry.

    Where does the claim that "they still have the largest MBB/NW (Manufacturers Buy-back, No Warranty) volume in the industry" comes from? what industry fact is that based on?

    The rant regarding Hyundai receiving so-called "good press" is utter nonsense. Hyundai is getting the so-called "good press" because it is finally producing good, quality, reliable cars and is now being recognized for that accomplishment. (source: consumers reports 2004 reader surveys)

    As far as the comment about Hyundai adding to rental fleets name one manufacturer that mass produces mid-sized vehicles who doesn’t currently allocate a percentage of their models to rentals? What better way to introduce your product to a potential prospect. Toyota does this all the time.
  • harrycheztharrychezt Member Posts: 405
    http://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/specialreports/hyundai/StoryBusinessbrettmai- n.htm

    This report is very interesting. It does mention the Excel.

    Anyone hear ever read about Mitsubishi giving Hyundai the tranny/engine for the Excel, or is that a internet rumor?

    I also read that Mitsubishi sold a version of the Excel.
    So which is it? Mitsubishi sold Hyudnai's, rebadged, or visa-versa?
    Anyhow....
    On with the show. ;)
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 53,466
    Mitsu sold a rebadged Excel, the "Precis". A friend of mine had one in high school, and it was a tinny little thing. I called it the "Precis Zero" after the WWII plane.
  • delta4delta4 Member Posts: 138
    fintail is correct regarding the Precis being a rebadged Excel sold by Mistubishi. Both quite forgettable models. While we're on that subject isn't it ironic that Mistubishi, a Japanese company who at one time supplied the powertrains for Hyundai is now leaking miles and miles of red ink and may soon become feed for fast moving Chinese auto conglomerate. How the student has passed the teacher.
  • jlawrence01jlawrence01 Member Posts: 1,828
    Wasn't the Hyundai Pony/Excel a reworked Mitsu??
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,435
    Anyone hear ever read about Mitsubishi giving Hyundai the tranny/engine for the Excel, or is that a internet rumor?

    Mitsubishi supplied the engines and transmissions for the early FWD Hyundais (Excel and Sonata). Hyundai built their own copies of the Mitsu drivetrains beginning around 1991 for the second-gen Excel and Sonata, and the first Elantra and Scoupe. Hyundai reengineered them (flipping the tranny to the driver's side in the process) around 1994 (these went in the last of the turbo Scoupes, the 1995 Accent, and 1996 Elantra and Tiburon; the 1996 Sonata got new heads).

    I also read that Mitsubishi sold a version of the Excel.

    Mitsubishi Precis. This was part of the deal for the Mitsu drivetrains.
  • harrycheztharrychezt Member Posts: 405
    Thanks, Bumpy!
    Very interesting!
    Wondered about all of that, and never could find a 100% clear answer.
  • pocono35pocono35 Member Posts: 89
    Toyota not worried? Are you aware when Hyundai rocketed onto the quality charts in 2004, when the Sonata was ranked the most reliable car ever (2 problems/100 vehicles), that Toyota's Chairman requested a tour of Hyundai's Ulsan plant(the worlds largest and most advanced) and offered to allow Hyundai's Chair to tour Toyota's Lexus plant in Japan. Hyundai declined. What do you think Toyota wanted to see. Toyota not concerned?
    Hyundai's Sonata sold 14,000+ last month and was up 117%. It was the SEVENTH BEST SELLLING CAR IN THE UNITED STATES behind the Camry, Corolla, Accord, Civic, Impala and Altima. Projections for December sales are 20,000 which puts the Sonata only 3,000 units behind the Accord and 6,000 behind the Camry. Not concerned? When a Hyundai Sonata used to be a joke and it is now one of the best sellilng cars in the US, it warrants concern.
    Motor Trends December Issue states that Lexus/Toyota brand should be very worried and rated the Hyundai Azera a better car in its rankings than the Avalon.

    http://www.autoblog.com/2006/01/01/lienerts-predictions-for-2006/
  • giantkillergiantkiller Member Posts: 273
    You guys are beating a dead horse. So what do you guys want? You want Toyota to make public admission that they fear Hyundai and that they plan to "cut and run" by pulling out of the market? Is that what you want?
    The industry is tough and I'm sure Toyota is not only aware of Hyundai as a competetitor but also the "other" much larger competitors.
    What goes around comes around. Hyundai and Kia has its own share of failures, so does Nissan and Mitsubishi. Hyundai and Nissan was able to turn it around and its not far off to say that Mitsubishi can do it too.
    Nobody knows what will happen in five or ten years time. maybe by then Mitsubishi is hot on the heals of Hyundai. Will you guys parading Hyundai success be with us still to join a thread that I will start entitled "Hyundai fearing Mitsubishi"
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Alamogordo, NMMember Posts: 7,615
    about Hyundai and Kia and the floating Big Boy, Toyota. Honestly sir, Big Boy's still making the same great product for the same great prices. They've never stopped. :)

    I realize that Kia is doing worse as far as quality goes but they are still my favorite. They've always taken more than adequate care of me, dealer service scores have been a 99% from me for both of my Kia dealers. One was in Burlington, WA, and one was in Springfield, MO. Helpful, courteous and technically top-notch people. I'm fixin' to meet my local Kia dealership's employees, this one being Robert Allen Kia in Pocatello, Idaho. Robert Allen also sells Nissan's and Mercedes-Benz'. I think they'll do a great job for me as they want to get the Kia part of their business going here in SE Idaho. I'll let y'all know as the story progresses, OK?

    I took a several months long time period to study the Scion lineup of cars and I came away very impressed. Was strongly considering buying a Scion xA RS 1.0(used) or 2.0(new)but am now firmly back in the new car market looking only at Kia's.

    I have bought two Kia's in a row so an owner loyalty rebate would be cool as well as a college grad rebate(they'll consider anyone who has a degree that they earned up to two years back from the proposed purchase day of your new Kia, I graduated on May 4, 2005) of $400 on my proposed purchase of a 2006 Kia Rio5 in 5-speeds and Tropical Red color. The Kia Rio5 SX has everything I'm looking for in a rig including 32/35 mpg. I just examined everything thoroughly and, you know what, that Long-Haul Warranty, superior Kia body stylers(the best in the business IMHO), metal pedals, spoiler, rear wiper/defroster, AM/FM/CD player, air conditioning and leather-wrapped steering wheel and shift knob has won me over to the Kia Rio5 SX.

    All that equipment for $14,110 and then the fact that Motor Trend has picked the 2006 Kia Rio5 SX as one of their 26 contenders for 2006 Car of the Year and their write-up is very complimentary, as well as countless great reviews of the "Euro" design Rio5 that are very favorable towards it. This includes one from my old hometowm Seattle Times newspaper that heralds it as a wise choice to consider for those that are one car families.

    Describes us well...my wife, I , our one Norwegian Forest cat and two Pomeranians, plus a 25-y/o son who visits us real often. We are a one-car family and the Rio5 SX from Kia for 2006 is a great fit for us.

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • goodegggoodegg Member Posts: 905
    Toyota 'fears' all car companies. Their success is enviable. Of course Hyundai wants to make a run at them, but so do all car companies.

    Hyundai is such a mystery financially. Try to research the company's financials and you get a bunch of mosh. The SK government obviously has a huge interest in the company doing well and the subsidies/freebies/concessions are rumored to be huge. But who knows? In a few years the company could implode and get bailed out again. Or get nuked by North Korea.

    The cars may be built better but it'll take many more years to convince a huge part of America that Hyundai can hunt. Their negative reputation still looms over them. And the styling of their cars is so 'Eastern European' dull.
  • diemusikdiemusik Member Posts: 12
    "get nuked by North Korea."

    I find that to be offensive. Please be remineded that there are Koreans who visit this forum and read posts with great interest. I, for one. I know you didn't mean it to be offensive. However, I think that was inappropriate.

    Thanks. :)
  • w9cww9cw Member Posts: 888
    My wife and I have spent the last 9 months driving and scrutinizing Honda, Nissan, and Toyota products, and only recently Hyundai. Originally, we were in the Accord or Camry model-type market, but recently reconsidered our needs due to its primary purpose: city commuting, i.e. downmarket. First of all let me state, we've driven primarily European and Japanese vehicles since the mid-60's, and have substantial experience with relative high quality vehicles with generally excellent fit and finish.

    To cut to the chase, we bought a 2006 Hyundai Elantra GLS. One could set an Elantra next to any Honda, Nissan, or Toyota, and by objectively viewing the consistent seam and body panel alignment and gaps, as well as the overall visible build quality and attention to detail, the Hyundai is every bit as good as any of the Japanese brands. (Note: Every 2005/2006 Camry LE we looked at earlier had inconsistent panel and trim alignment. Perhaps this is more due to the manufacturing process in Georgetown, KY?) We later spoke with a number of late model Elantra owners, and they stated its reliability has been outstanding.

    I'm old enough to remember the first Honda, Datsun, and Toyota products which landed in the USA in the '60s. They were no great cars either, practically rusting away within the first few years of ownership. In many ways, Hyundai is paralleling the product growth over time of the Japanese brands. In other words, we are witnessing another market growth cycle, this time with a Korean manufacturer. Who's next - most likely China and India.

    In the USA, perception of a product seems to be paramount. You could have a better mousetrap in every sense of the word, but if the masses perceive otherwise, it would be viewed as inferior. That's exactly the way most adults viewed the Japanese brands initially - Japanese products in the USA were perceived as junk. Times change, and with the products Hyundai currently offers, their standing in the marketplace will change as well.

    If one considers the current Hyundai Sonata dull, the same logic must apply to the Audi A4 and VW Passat styling, as well as the larger Ford Five Hundred.
  • harrycheztharrychezt Member Posts: 405
    http://sg.news.yahoo.com/060102/1/3xlle.html

    Total sales volume for 06, for all Korean vehilce makers(including GM-DAT).
    http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2006/01/02/202458.html

    Hyundai sold around 2.53 million units, and Kia 1.27 million= for the Hyundai Group: 3.8 Million.

    GM is thisclose to Kia(GM-Daewoo).
  • harrycheztharrychezt Member Posts: 405
    for S Korean makers, all of them combined.
  • w9cww9cw Member Posts: 888
    One other thing regarding the purchase of our 2006 Elantra - we paid cash as we always do when purchasing a car. As one who at one time worked in the auto industry, many dealers, regardless of what brand they sell, try to qualify any "breathing human being" for a loan to close a sale. Afterall, the majority of car salespersons' make their living on sales commissions.

    I could have paid cash for any Honda or Toyota, but chose the Hyundai. Like I said, times may be changing.
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Member Posts: 9,359
    ..**Toyota not worried? Are you aware when Hyundai rocketed onto the quality charts in 2004, when the Sonata was ranked the most reliable car ever (2 problems/100 vehicles), that Toyota's Chairman requested a tour of Hyundai's Ulsan plant(the worlds largest and most advanced) and offered to allow Hyundai's Chair to tour Toyota's Lexus plant in Japan. Hyundai declined. What do you think Toyota wanted to see. Toyota not concerned? **

    There must be some thick glass on that aquarium you live in ..... "rocketed" ..l.o.l... have you looked at the long term figures.? .. where's all of your 85,000/135,000 mile Sonata's at, the Guggenheim Museum...? ... as far as the Chairman of Toyota going to the plant, I understand that, that's business 101 .. he was invited along with probably 10,000 other industry people, him being in the top 5 I'm sure, it's done on levels and at various dates and times, c'mon even I was invited and I'm not even a Hyundai dealer ..l.o.l... ... but that's a very common business/industry practice, it shows a mark of respect and there's a certain comradory with folks in the business and across the board, it happens everyday whether you're in the car business, the boat business or the hat making business.


    Hyundai's Sonata sold 14,000+ last month and was up 117%. It was the SEVENTH BEST SELLLING CAR IN THE UNITED STATES behind the Camry, Corolla, Accord, Civic, Impala and Altima. Projections for December sales are 20,000 which puts the Sonata only 3,000 units behind the Accord and 6,000 behind the Camry. Not concerned? When a Hyundai Sonata used to be a joke and it is now one of the best selling cars in the US, it warrants concern.
    Motor Trends December Issue states that Lexus/Toyota brand should be very worried and rated the Hyundai Azera a better car in its rankings than the Avalon.


    14,000.? .. actually the figures are just shy of $14,200 .... but that figure also includes the 5,300ish vehicles that were shipped off to Dollar and other rental car companies, plus those figures also include the 1,500ish in "buy back replacements" ... so those figures are a little skewed .... I'm not waving Toyota's flag or any other flag for that matter .. and I'm not from Florida or Ohio, I'm from Missouri: "the show me State" ....

    When Hyun/Kia can put some back to back winners together and they have 4 or 5 years of "proven history" (and their buy back rate isn't the highest in the industry) ... and they can continually link 250/350,000+ units of 100,000/150,000 mile vehicles in the market (which they haven't) - and the word "reliability" can be used in their vocabulary as a history fact - not an advertisement for the future, and the word "longevity" becomes a fact and not a promise with a hinky warranty, and they can show the buying public they can sell cars with quality dealers that have no fear of their own products with ~ then, they have gotten somewhere .... with 3 times at the plate lets see if they can play in the Majors .....



    Terry.
  • harrycheztharrychezt Member Posts: 405
    I am curious now about these 20% buy backs, et al..

    Not being nasty, I just have not been able to find any info on any internet searches. If you are privvy to info we are not, would be cool if ya can share it somehow.

    I have tried, but all I get are sales from Hyundai, or parts from Hyundai, or carsdirect.com testimonials on Hyundai; nothing about buy backs, for any company.
    :confuse:

    Thanks
    DAV
    83-94
    USN/USCG
  • delta4delta4 Member Posts: 138
    "There must be some thick glass on that aquarium you live in ..... "rocketed" ..l.o.l... have you looked at the long term figures.?" - rroyce10.

    There needn't be any sarcasm when responding to any post.
    thanks.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaMember Posts: 12,726
    just how concerned Americans are about quality anyway. In this age of disposable everything, people probably don't care that much about how much a new product breaks down as long it as it will be "exchanged" (repaired under warranty) with minimal hassle and cost rock bottom prices.

    This race to the bottom is the very reason for WalMart's resounding success, and the thing that should most scare Toyota. Whether or not Hyundai is these days making stuff bought back at the rate of 20% or not, someone is standing right behind them in the line, ready to sell their stuff cheaply to Americans, who WILL manufacture their product to that standard and sell it at rock bottom prices.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

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