Buying American Cars What Does It Mean?

motorcity6 · October 2012

I had a 54 Ford Crestliner with the new Y-block V-8 OHV w/Ford-O-Matic..My first car was a 35 Ford V-8,a 1948 V-8 replaced the original engine. Other Flathead Ford V-8s in the family were a 1947, 1950 2dr Crestliner, 1951 4-door, 1952 4-door, 1953 4-door,and all cars from the 50 thru the 1953 were 3-speed column shift w/overdrive..My favorite one was the 1950, hopped up engine, lots of noise, and totally abused..The car was traded in on another Ford, showing around 50k miles, the dealer spun the speedo back to 25k.A few years later the owner of this car surfaced on a title mistake and informed us the he had the totaled the car in a sandstorm and it had accumulated 175k mi..so it had gone about 200k..We didn't tell him the dealer had spun the speedo..Sure do miss the good old days..

In fact the practice of spinning the meters went on into the late 70's,early 80's..Sure does improve on used car values if 90k miles suddenly becomes 45k and the car is only 18 months old..Car only lost about 1/3 of it's delivered cost..

My last Ford was a 1979 Thunderbird after GM downsized the Grand Prix. It was a good car,it went the 90k miles with only brake problems..Replaced it with an 81 Buick Riveria, an utter disaster and still had the original breakin oil at 18k miles when I dumped it..

Now that Cadillac has gone to turbo-4bangers in a new 2013 model that carries a steep price of mid 40s with a 6spd manual, I guess BMW would be a great option to receive some value...Anybody buying a new Caddy and expect a decent resale value is in for a surprise.. I have been that route with my wife's 3 Caddies, and the only way is to go the high mileage route and dump them after 5yrs with high mileage, then one doesn't feel so burned..

Out of the Big 3 mess, Ford is the only viable one left and their product line is uninspiring except for the SHO and the Mustang GT..

Gas pricing, remember when oil price per barrel was approaching $150, and people were screaming about the $4.00/gallon pricing??? Now barrel is around $91 and gas is around $4.00/gal!!!

California is getting creamed for the refineries are shipping a bulk of their product to China instead of messing around with the EPA blends for the ecology bunch..China just wants gasoline without the corn or sugar cane flavor.. Doesn't one love the political garbage that fixes nothing, however screws up our existence..

Life was great in the old days, too bad it's going down the sewer..

stever · October 2012

I sure don't want to go back to the 50s. And the cars were pretty bad back then too. :P

andre1969 · October 2012

I sure don't want to go back to the 50s. And the cars were pretty bad back then too.

As nostalgic as I get sometimes, I don't want to go back to those days, either! A 50's car is a neat toy, but if you have to depend on it day in and out for your transportation needs, it's most likely going to cause trouble.

gagrice · October 2012

I liked the 50s and 60s cars. I could do anything on them for very little money. The newer cars steal some of that independence from the owners and give it to the dealers. All the secrets in coding for the on board computers.

I overhauled several flathead Fords and a few overhead valve engines. A couple hundred bucks including the machine shop work and you were good to go. I think the last engine I pulled and tore apart was a POC 1973 Subaru still under warranty. Problem, the dealer in Anchorage was from hell. Minimum 9 weeks to get a vehicle in for warranty. That was for those that bought from her. Don't even bother bringing an out of state Subaru or Saab for warranty work. The 1970s were the worst of times in the auto industry.

ateixeira · October 2012

Problem, the dealer in Anchorage was from...

Still is.

Subaru Crew members drive down to Washington state to buy cars. The one is Alaska has a captive audience and it's the single worst place to attempt to buy a Subaru.

If you want to sell a used Subaru, and left in the NW, drive to Alaska, sell it, and fly down. You'll more than pay for a vacation in Alaska.

keystonecarfan · October 2012

The good old days weren't always so good.

On long trips even in the 1960s, blowouts were not uncommon, and car trouble was expected. I remember traveling from southcentral Pennsylvania to Columbus, Ohio, in the summer of 1969 with my mother, grandmother and aunt in our 1965 Chevrolet Bel Air wagon. Something went wrong with either the steering or front suspension, and my mother barely got the car to Columbus.

That car was virtually rolling junk by 1972, when it had almost 100,000 miles on the odometer. I remember my parents were afraid to push it above 55 mph (and this was before the national 55 mph speed limit) on the highway.

I also remember our 1967 Oldsmobile Delmont 88, which my parents considered to be a very good car, had a "dieseling" problem when you switched off the ignition in certain types of weather. (Not to pick on GM, but that is largely what my parents have owned, with a few exceptions over the decades.)

And I've told you many times about our 1973 AMC Gremlin, which, looking back, was the automotive equivalent of Linda Blair in The Exorcist. It did everything BUT spit out pea soup. Maybe my parents needed a priest, not a mechanic, to get it to work...

ateixeira · October 2012

I remember my dad using his jack on his '72 Buick so often I learned by watching.

I think I've had one flat since ... since I can remember.

stever · October 2012

I have a Continental Subaru tag surround hanging in the garage from the '97 I bought used and drove down. Can't believe they were worse than "Go See Cal". Those guys would chase you around the lot.

My current van came from up there too. The week or so before they were all over the newspapers for entering into a consent decree with the AGs office agreeing to refund a bunch of money and quit their slimy ways. Figured that would be a good time to buy from them since they were walking on egg shells. :shades:

When it comes to flats, maybe I'm still stuck in the 50s. Get way too many of them.

fintail · October 2012

Even later, cars aged so poorly. The big bloated Bird my parents had when I was a kid - a beautiful boat in 1975, was off the road around 1985, and my dad eventually gave it away for free to someone for parts. Hard to do that with even a cheapo car today. I remember in the 90s when I started driving, a lot of ~10 year old cars would be pretty shot, too. There was a hand me down Tempo in the family I'd sometimes repair via junkyard parts - by 1995 the local yards were stuffed with mid 80s vintage metal. I recall in 1990, a friend of the family bought a used 83 Stanza - the car would have problems every day. Cars are pretty good today.

gagrice · October 2012

When it comes to flats, maybe I'm still stuck in the 50s.

Quit buying those used recaps. They are better used to grow potatoes. My last flat tire was sometime in the 1970s.

Was Weurth the name of the family that owned Continental Motors? That 1973 Subaru was the last vehicle I bought new in AK. I bought a new Dodge Van in 1974 from a big Seattle dealer. Brought it back on the Ferry. Saved more than enough for our plane and ferry tickets. Go See CAL was never on my radar. He came later.

stever · October 2012

Beats me, never shopped with them although I had plenty of friends driving Subies and don't remember excessive complaints. It was Honda that mostly irritated me, but as someone mentioned, it's a captive market. Not as bad as Hawaii though, eh?

I remember calling Cal about a Windstar and asking the price. The guy had no clue, just wanted to know how much I wanted my payment to be. That's when I drove over to look and kept on driving as the lot guys came running to hit the new "up" on the lot.

That's about the time ('98) I found Edmunds too.

gagrice · October 2012

We must have joined Edmund's the same year 1998. I was looking for a Diesel Ranger in the USA. 15 years later and still looking. I always rented vehicles in HI. I did try out a couple vehicles and the dealers seemed pretty decent in Hilo. Still cheaper to buy in Portland and ship over.

roadburner · October 2012

Keep on buying forgein goods and services and if you think this last recession was bad... you ain't seen nothing yet Alice...

Too late; I bought a CPO 2009 E90 328i a couple of months ago...

And now I learn that I could have bought a new Fusion or Malibu for just a couple of thousand more.
Darn it!!! :mad:

:mad:

roadburner · October 2012

We must have joined Edmund's the same year 1998.

Me too. my wife was looking for a new Contour optioned in a specific manner, and no Ford dealers in my area were at all interested in either locating or ordering one. She ended up buying a new E36 3 series and has remained in the BMW camp ever since(well, this time we did consider a Countryman but it is a part of the BMW group). A blessing in disguise, I think you call it.

andres3 · October 2012

I've had a Honda dealer trade with another dealership for the right color and options/trim level Civic my wife wanted, successfully (of course it caused a 1 to 1.5 hour delay).

I could never get an Audi dealer to honestly make a "even" trade. Meaning if they had to trade for a vehicle they were going to probably want MORE money than if you just pick one on the lot. Also, it seemed the dealers that had a car someone wanted had no interest in trading anyway.

keystonecarfan · October 2012

When I was growing up in the 1970s, driving a car 10 years old or older caused raised eyebrows. You either hadn't "made it," or you were grandma still driving that early 1960s Falcon or Rambler (or, if grandma was rich, an early 1960s Cadillac, Buick or Lincoln) to church and the grocery store, and no where else.

Today I still see plenty of cars from the mid- and late 1990s on the road.

fintail · October 2012

Styles changing so fast and cars aging poorly must have created that. I suspect at that time, a lot of those 10 year old cars were on their last legs, too.

Nowadays, a 10 year old car often doesn't look very old to the untrained eye, and can be in excellent condition.

andres3 · October 2012

Speaking of 10 year old cars on the road, how about 30+ year old cars?

People say old Audi's are rare, and that's true, but they exist.

My mechanic has an '81 red Coupe in pretty good condition on the exterior, fair for its age interior. Runs well, but can be tricky to start up in certain conditions; I'm sure it's cause I dont' know all the "tricks" since I'm not the owner.

He got beat by a German guy in the Socal Audi Club chapter at a drive this last weekend. A 1980 Audi 5000 in very good condition inside and out; he said it ran perfectly. He was actually able to keep up fairly well with his 32 year old hundred horses, even with souped up modern Audi's, including S6's; of course, we only went up to about 8/10's on some roads.

roadburner · October 2012

Speaking of 10 year old cars on the road, how about 30+ year old cars?

My 1975 '02 is still used as a daily driver- at least when its lack of A/C doesn't make it too uncomfortable. My wife actually like driving it as much or more than her E90 3er.

fintail · October 2012

Many 30 year old cars can be daily drivers. I see MB diesels that old every day. Domestic pickups seem capable of this too. There's also a couple slant-6 Darts I see all the time in my neighborhood - both 45 or so years old.

Daily driving a malaise era Audi might be a bit of a labor of love, but it could be done if someone had the technical skills and hasn't yet been blacklisted by AAA.

Wouldn't take much for me to daily drive the fintail either - and it is running towards 50 years old, FI makes things easier.

dieselone · October 2012

A neighbor of mine down the road drives a '92 BMW 525i everyday to work which is about 40 miles each way. IIRC it has over 200k miles on it. He's a quirky guy and he turns his own wrenches. He parked it for a month or so last winter to replace the whole exhaust system and many suspension components.

lemko · October 2012

PLENTY of 30+ year-old GM B and C body full-size cars still on the streets in Philly!

fintail · October 2012

A cheapskate friend of mine was daily driving an 83 Monte Carlo about 80 miles a day, maybe 10 years ago. One day he decided to do a brake job by himself. Took 3 weeks.

I don't see too many old B and C bodies around here anymore.

gagrice · October 2012

You are not in Philadelphia either. That is just one small step ahead of Havana. Where 1950s cars are still running around.

fintail · October 2012

I see 70s-80s era Japanese and German stuff daily. Maybe the domestics didn't sell to the same levels here when new. Coastal areas tend to catch the winds of change first.

keystonecarfan · October 2012

Japanese imports established their initial beachhead on the West Coast, and moved inward.

Mercedes and BMW were initially popular in the big northeastern cities (New York, Boston and Philadelphia) and California.

VW was the exception - its popularity was more evenly spread. VW sales peaked at over half a million cars in this country in 1970.

Well into the early 1980s, getting an imported car (aside from the old air-cooled VWs) serviced in the rural parts of Pennsylvania was a challenge. Many independent mechanics simply did not work on them.

bpizzuti · October 2012

PLENTY of 30+ year-old GM B and C body full-size cars still on the streets in Philly!

Abandoned cars don't count. :shades:

benjaminh · October 2012

New video about how Honda makes Accords at Marysville, OH, with engines built at Anna, OH.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBluTaWjPIU

andre1969 · October 2012

Abandoned cars don't count. :P

I drove to work today in a 37 year old GM product...a 1976 Pontiac Grand LeMans. However, I attribute the fact that it's still running more to a combination of good luck, good care, and whatever money has been poured into it over the decades, rather than anything GM did to it.

keystonecarfan · October 2012

The drivetrains of early and mid-1970s GM cars were pretty stout (except, of course, for the infamous Vega), as were the chassis bits.

The bodies and interiors, however, seemed to get cheaper with each redesign, beginning with the 1971 full-size cars.

andres3 · October 2012

Daily driving a malaise era Audi might be a bit of a labor of love, but it could be done if someone had the technical skills and hasn't yet been blacklisted by AAA.

He said an old lady had owned the car and kept it in her garage and hardly ever drove it. I think it had 58K miles.

He also mentioned that the drive that weekend was probably the hardest the car had ever been driven in its first 32 years.

uplanderguy · October 2012

PLENTY of 30+ year-old GM B and C body full-size cars still on the streets in Philly!

Still see a lot here on the streets in salty NE OH.

In 2007, I was working a block from Lake Michigan in Benton Harbor, MI. A guy I worked with had an old refrigerator-looking Volvo with 500K miles which was on its second engine/third trans (or vice-versa), and he had the emblem on the front from the Volvo folks who drive their cars a long time. He said, "Around here, American cars just don't last as long". I then proceeded, within thirty seconds, to point out four or five 20-plus-year-old Caprices which were in the employee lot...and most didn't look too bad. There wasn't a single anything else that old in the lot.

I sold my '93 'whale' Caprice to a company that exported them to Saudi Arabia. I constantly got postcards in the mail, "Call us first, call us last, just call us! We want Caprices". So I did just that.

lemko · October 2012

If you want to see a lot of really old U.S. iron, travel to Turkey where you'll still see plenty of 1950s U.S. iron on the streets of Istanbul and Ankara as dolmusses, (taxis that travel a fixed route like buses).

fintail · October 2012

That's why it survived. Audis of that era weren't particularly good cars, especially in terms of reliability.

During the heady days of malaise (say 1977-1983) , the best cars seem to have been MB diesels and full size American cars, and many Japanese cars if you lived on the west coast or desert.

motorcity6 · October 2012

Tried to get my wife to let me trade her 91 Cadillac Touring Sedan in on one and the answer was "NO".. For my use the SS was another traffic ticket waiting for I preferred to drive ordinary cars fast, just sedate 4 dr sedans..

At the end of the run the SS's were heavily discounted..See a few in SW Florida,and I always wondered how they digested the flavored gasoline of today..Ethanol!!!

You'll remember when corn was $1.00/bushel...I do...Who got us into the "Ethanol"?????????????

I should have bought an SS....the 91 Caddy turned into a 96 Caddy..

uplanderguy · October 2012

Lemko, my wife and I used to nervously laugh that we were afraid we might sometime see our car in front of a burned-out embassy somewhere "over there" on TV!

Mine was a base model '93, maroon in and out, F41 suspension, positraction, wire wheelcovers (GM's were by far the best IMO--small center section, long spokes, lots of spokes, and black background), Goodyear Eagle tires with pinstripe whitewalls, and full-size spare. It was a great car.

uplanderguy · October 2012

At the end of the run the SS's were heavily discounted

I seem to remember the dealers holding out for $$ on the last of them up here.

The '96's were the best of the bunch, as they finally had a floor-mounted shifter and analog gauges.

andre1969 · October 2012

Back in late 1999 I came close to buying a '96 Caprice that had the LT1 350, so it was essentially an SS in sheep's clothing. As I recall, it was around $12,900, and had about 35,000 miles on it. Ended up passing because the dealer gave me a bad vibe, and bought my Intrepid a few weeks later.

A local dealer has a '94 Caprice for sale, for $6995. But it's just the base 4.3 V-8. It's light blue, and only has about 41,000 miles on it. I actually kinda like it despite having the smaller V-8, but that price is crazy, even for the low miles. Maybe I should go up there and low-ball 'em? Seriously though, I need to stay away, because they also have a nice looking '81-83 Imperial on their lot, and I've always liked those!

roadburner · October 2012

I was instructing at Memphis back in 1996 and another instructor brought an SS; it was seriously modified. He was planning to run the car in the Silver State Challenge. It was really quick on the straights, but it was a bit heavy for some of the tighter corners. Sweet car, regardless.

cooterbfd · October 2012

Mike, was out in a 63 year old C body today...............picked up a '49 Super for my son's first car!!!!

berri · October 2012

nice looking '81-83 Imperial

Those were kind of neat looking. Didn't they have a Frank Sinatra version? I heard that they had a lot of electronic gremlins though.

lemko · October 2012

Cool! I remember when I was a junior in college, I came across a black 1950 Buick Roadmaster for sale for $600. It needed a lot of work, but the body was solid and rust-free and it ran well. Alas, it was another one that got away! One of my college professors restored a 1952 Buick Super two-door hardtop. His was green with a white top.

gagrice · October 2012

They don't keep the old DynaFlop transmissions when the restore do they? Has to be the WORST auto transmission of all time.

andre1969 · October 2012

Those were kind of neat looking. Didn't they have a Frank Sinatra version? I heard that they had a lot of electronic gremlins though.

Yep. Apparently it only came in one color, "glacier blue". This Imperial on the lot is an icy blue that is most likely that color. However, in reading up about it, it seems the Frank Sinatra edition was only offered with a matching blue leather or "kimberly cloth" interior. This car on the lot has a beige leather interior.

And yeah, the fuel injection could be very troublesome on them. It was common for the dealer to simply convert them to 2-bbl carbs.

I always thought it was interesting how Cadillac, Lincoln, and Imperial all went after that bustleback look around that timeframe. As much as we might complain about how everybody copies everybody else nowadays, and nobody has any imagination anymore, I think to a degree, that's always been true.

I always thought that, of those buslteback looks, the Imperial looked the best. It had a sleek, futuristic look to it, whereas the Seville was more neoclassic and a bit pimpy. And the small '82 Continental just seemed a bit conservative and stuffy. But, I guess it was profitable enough for Ford to keep it around through 1987, so it's probably not fair to deem it a failure like the Imperial was.

The Continental probably had the best drivetrain of those three cars, too. It had a 302 standard for the entire run, although in 1982 there was a credit option of the 232 V-6. Ford's 4-speed overdrive transmission could be troublesome in those early years, but then, so could GM's. And for all the talk of the rugged durability of the Torqueflite, I've heard people complain about how it wasn't so hot by 1981.

uplanderguy · October 2012

The Seville I think was truest to the classic Bentley look, but honestly I didn't like it. I can remember seeing my first '80 Seville at our small dealer, and I liked it only until I got just past the rear doors. I hated the rest!

The Imperial's rear end wasn't quite so extreme. My Dad's boss, the postmaster of Greenville, PA, had an Imperial of that era and Lee Iacocca actually telephoned him personally at work to ask him how he liked it! How they got his work number, I don't know, but I remember the story going that an operator called and said "Can you hold for Mr. Iacocca?" and then patched him through.

fintail · October 2012

I think the Imperial and Seville have a certain cool to them today, if one can find a car in good colors and trim. The crisp lines of the Imperial probably give it a more cohesive design, but these cars are about being ostentatious, and the Seville takes that award. Growing up in a small town in the 80s, either car seemed prestigious and kind of exotic to my young eyes - I remember there was at least one of each in town. At that time the German luxoboats were still fairly alien, there might have been a single W126 and 7-series in town.

iwant12 · October 2012

When I bought a new Z-28 back in '94, the dealer had several new SSs on the lot (think they were all back!). Though I had come for the Camaro, I was intrigued by the big 4-door. I decided it was just a bit too big and drove off in my black 6-speed Z-28. That sure was a fun car!

cannon3 · October 2012

I visit other chat rooms and it never ceases to stop amazing me how Americans think so short term. Purchasing forgien goods and services does absolutly nothing for our countries future generations. When you purchase a product made in another country you are supporting that countries economy and infrastructure. I had a choice today of a broom made in China and another made in the USA. For $1.26 more I chose the one made in the USA. If more Americans thought this way we would not be owned by forgien countries folks...

fintail · October 2012

A few years ago I had to buy some kitchenwares, and I found that American made Pyrex was no more expensive than the Chinese stuff. The American made Fiesta dishes I use aren't particularly expensive either (although mine were given to me, so I suppose I didn't support any economy there).

One can also find vintage silverplate cutlery for much cheaper than new Chinese stuff that is probably lead coated with arsenic.

roadburner · October 2012

I tried to buy American products when I assembled my home theaters, but it's not easy. I was able to buy cabling, interconnects, surge suppressors, and speakers that were made in the US, but other than that you are looking overseas for the electronics.
And -back on topic- I am currently considering an American made car...

Buying American Cars What Does It Mean?

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