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I think that's what we had, also a console. Scary to think!
big hit ... is real estate
Yep. Dad paid $40k in 1971, 2nd buyer paid $120k in 1980, 3rd buyer paid $357k in 1999, and today our old house is worth about $800k!
There's just no way incomes have gone up 2000% since 1971.
Interestingly each buyer has had the value of that house roughly triple.
On my Dad's side, they started with a used 1949 Ford, and then every car after that was bought brand-new, and paid for in cash. They were:
1957 Ford Fairlane 500
1961 Ford Galaxie 500
1963 Mercury Monterrey
1966 (or '67, I forget now) Pontiac Tempest
1971 Pontiac Tempest
1975 Dodge Dart Swinger
1977 Ford Granada
1981 Ford Granada
1985 Ford LTD
1989 Ford Taurus LX
1994 Ford Taurus GL
Granddad retired in 1974, at the age of 60, from the railroad, making $6.00 per hour. Grandmom worked as well, but I forget how much she made, and she retired the same year. None of those were particularly expensive/prestigious cars. The '57, 61, and 63 were around $3500 each. The '89 Taurus was around $16,800. Can't remember what the '94 was.
I think that's what we had, also a console. Scary to think!
Yeah, but we only had one TV in the house back then. I've got 7 TV's in our house, so I roughly have paid $7k for them. Not to mention cable service.
Yep. Dad paid $40k in 1971, 2nd buyer paid $120k in 1980, 3rd buyer paid $357k in 1999, and today our old house is worth about $800k!
There's just no way incomes have gone up 2000% since 1971.
Those numbers certainly aren't universal. An $800k house around here would be something very nice. My in-laws still live in the small 3 bedroom ranch they purchased in '73 in NW Indiana. They paid about $20k for it and it's worth about $100k today.
True, but we have 100s of channels, on-demand, and a DVR.
Remember when there was NBC, ABC, and CBS? Fox wasn't even around back then, but we had WDCA and PBS, so about 5 channels total. LOL
Those were not the good ol' days. If you sent a modern kid in a time machine to the 1970s, they would scream and cry until you brought them back!
There are so many things I miss from even the '70's. And I'm only 54.
I tell my kids that I watched more TV when there were three networks than I do today. Far less dreck back then.
I still have nightmares of hearing my name called and being told to turn the TV up or down, or change the channel. How did we survive? LOL
If you sent a modern kid in a time machine to the 1970s, they would scream and cry until you brought them back!
No doubt. My 10 year old daughter asked me the other day what Ipods were like when I was a kid. I googled a picture on a Sony Walkman and added that my parents never bought me one. The look on her face was priceless;)
But to some, all of this so called progress is nothing more than sedating the masses;) Well I'm sedated and happy, what more could I ask for;)
I'm not in the 1% club, but I believe the lifestyle I can comfortably afford would have required a 1% income a generation ago.
Where we're situated, we got kinda lucky...got all the DC stations and most of the Baltimore. NBC was channel 2 in Baltimore, 4 in DC. ABC was 7 in DC, 13 in Balt. CBS was 9 in DC, 11 in Balt. DC also had channels 5 (WTTG) and 20 (WDCA), which were local. 5 is now Fox, and I think 20 is WB or UPN or something like that.
I remember Channel 50 being a bit of a latecomer. Channel 45 in Baltimore held some mystique for me, because it played Speed Racer reruns until around 1984. However, sometimes it would come in clear, sometimes it wouldn't. Then there was Channel 54, which would show old reruns of Private Benjamin, etc, and then convert over to Super TV around 8:00 PM.
I sort of remember a Channel 24 coming onto the scene sometime in the 1980's. I remember them playing old Honeymooners and Twilight Zone reruns. I think later in the decade, it became the Home Shopping Channel?
22 and 26 were public television channels, and I think 32 as well.
Those were not the good ol' days. If you sent a modern kid in a time machine to the 1970s, they would scream and cry until you brought them back!
Funny thing is, back in those days, when the tuner only went up to 83 or whatever, I used to think of all that wasteland, just waiting to be cracked open and developed, populated by new tv channels.
Today, we have hundreds, or even thousands of channels, but often I'll turn on the tv and there's nothing but crap on! So in some ways, it still IS a wasteland!
But hey, we have "free trade" and an ever-growing Praetorian Class, so it's all good.
If the monies used for enforcement of such useless laws could be diverted to apprenticeship and training programs for industrial workers and other trades (as seen in real first world locations), maybe the devolution wouldn't be so severe. It might help American-based automakers, too.
When you were a teen, a color TV was for the rich, a car with FI and disc brakes was an unfathomable exotic. Technological trickle down over time can be confusing.
There are so many things I miss from even the '70's. And I'm only 54.
Honestly, I really don't miss much from the 70's (I was under 10 then) and 80's.
As far as kids today, that is the parents fault as much as anything. Using a TV or Xbox as a parenting device is a bad idea.
That's why we go to the lake on summer weekends. No cable TV (just the air waves) or Wi-fi for two days, and no gaming consoles. Our kids actually run, swim, and water ski/wake board etc with other kids out in the heat. It actually reminds me of how I grew up a bit. Granted we don't rough it, the RV has A/C, and we have plenty of expensive toys to play with.
We come home on Sunday evening and don't see a soul outside.
More middle managers and consultants, that's what GM needs! :shades:
You're both right. Gary's point explains the obesity epidemic, and it is up to the parents.
My kids do basketball, track, ballet, hip-hop dance, flag football, and more. They stay fit and it keeps them busy and out of trouble. Our car pool schedule is insane.
You have to instill good habits, though. Now my daughter wants to add soccer...her initiative not ours.
And I believe it's true that since alcohol is allowed at a young age in Germany, it's not such a taboo coming-of-age thing and therefore there is very little binge drinking in the late teens like we see in this country, and overall a lower level of alcohol-related societal issues.
Yep, that high drinking age and the war on drugs are doing us a whole lot of good. Probably means German auto workers are more sober than their UAW counterparts, too. I wonder if the European unions protect druggy workers like they do in the US?
What about those Chrysler employees drinking at lunch? I mean, come on...
Ours too. I know as a kid, we never had a schedule like my kids have. It is crazy. I easily drive over 100 miles a week just shuttling kids around to their various activities.
I just bought a 2500 sq ft house on an acre of land for $26k in So Indiana. With about $30k in upgrades it will be worth about $100k+. Last appraisal for taxes was $108k. The beauty being wages in that area are comparable to here where you still cannot buy a fixer for under $300k. Location is key to survival in this devolving society.
25" Zenith console in 1972 for around $700
And it was MADE IN THE USA. Now there are NO TVs that are 100% made in the USA. And that is why the manufacturing sector is dying in this country. What is made in USA that people want? The highest US content autos keep going down. Only one car has 80% US content, the Toyota Avalon. So you want the most American that is your choice. A few have 75% and it heads south from there.
Well that we can agree on. Completely ridiculous. You can enlist in the armed forces and vote, yet can't be trusted with alcohol?
That's just basketball.
Thankfully we are walking distance to school. She's worn out a couple of pairs of those, though!
True, the low cost of living here in the midwest is a big reason why we have enough disposable income for our recreational activities.
I doubt it is much of an issue for European unions, at least in Germany, as workers simply get along better with their employer than in much of the US. They wouldn't dare not be sober, out of pride.
Well maybe they all don't have to much pride;)
I know this is old news, but I guess these German workers weren't so impressed with their wage and benefit package;)
http://jalopnik.com/5702193/bmw-workers-steal-4-million-in-parts-to-sell-on-inte- - rnet
Generally better worker/manager relations can do a lot when it comes to pride and amicable behavior. I wonder what kind of shrinkage occurs at D3 operations. Maybe less in second world places where there's an armed thug at the door.
And I think we're delirious if we think there aren't Germans drinking while on the assembly line.
I would agree. I'd be curious to see how the unions in Europe handle such situations. I've talked to a UAW workers about 10 years ago who blatantly bragged about how he could drink at the GM plant he worked at and that he wouldn't be fired for it.
I know some union professions take such issues seriously. I know for a fact you won't be employed long as a Teamster operating engineer/heavy equipment operator if you show up drunk and some job sites have random screenings. You fail, you're gone.
http://www.mdt.mt.gov/safety/docs/taskforces/ojjdp_feb01.pdf
The differences between the US in regards to alcohol consumption is debatable.
I use to have neighbors that were 2nd generation German Americans and man did they drink. If I was at their house for a party, they always ended up drunk.
Sorry, I think drinking in high school is incredibly stupid
You're probably right, but I don't know how effective our drinking and drug laws are and even more debatable is how much we spend on such issues.
The oil companies are very strict. BP randomly tested and searched rooms for booze and drugs. Zero tolerance was their policy.
Looks like German consumption of alcohol is much higher than the USA. And it is much cheaper there as well. That must be how they keep the people happy. Here we give them smartphones.
I've never seen a legit reason why drinking at 18 should be taboo, but I guess that's something for another forum. I will flatly state that the monies burned on underage drinking enforcement could be put to better use. Maybe instead of hounding kids about outdated puritanical drinking insanity, the money could be used to give them job training - a system which barely exists in the US, and diminishes national competitiveness.
I didn't think in Europe they had many subsidized phone plans. Is that not the case?
I believe that in most of Europe the phones are bought at full retail and are unlocked. The users are free to jump between carriers on month to month plans. The phones are more of course but the service is a lot cheaper. It ends up being less over time, even with the higher upfront cost of the phones.
I've recently switched my entire family to unlocked phones on no-contract plans. Not going to let a company lock me in. That's why I don't like OnStar as an idea - I generally rebel against monthly fees more than upfront capital costs. Most companies seem to be trying to find ways to get a regular monthly amount out of our pockets.
Ha! Actually my car has XM. I subscribed for a couple of years and decided it wasn't worth it. I listen to my own music and free podcasts now.
I also dumped my local phone carrier for a VOIP connection. :P
I'm surprised that auto companies don't do something like the aircraft industry - for example some jet engines are sold as "power by the hour". A fixed price including all maintenance and repairs, by the hour. You could do that for a car - something like Full Service Per Mile. You just pay a certain fee by mile and then get all maintenance and everything fixed whenever you need on your car. Would actually be a great marketing tool for some maker. If GM or one of the D3 really wanted to stand out, they could offer this. Think of the advertising they could do.
Kinda like Zipcar, isn't it?
Depends, IMO... Responsible behavior, and being taught how to drink responsibly, such as a glass of wine or a beer with a meal, seems reasonable and rational to me. Drinking a 12-pack at one sitting doesn't make much sense, regardless go ones age.
When he got into other legal trouble, that was what made our advisor decide to 'send him back'.
Hmmm... That's telling... Everyone who drinks doesn't commit criminal acts. I grew up in a German family (I'm 3-rd generation), and it was normal for us to have a beer at night with a meal when I was as young as 15-16. Again, a single beer, not a case. I've never committed any criminal acts, other than a speeding ticket when I was 17. My father saw it as teaching us responsible drinking habits, rather than have his kids learn it from other teenagers.
The case you described makes me wonder if the kid was bound for trouble, with or without the drinking. Still, I don't disagree with his decision to shed the kid and send him back.
There's just no way incomes have gone up 2000% since 1971."
WE talk about why we used to have only one parent working, and now we need two incomes just to make ends meet...I think part of it is because items like cars, and especially houses, now cots so much more than they did 30 years ago, and the price increase in real estate has gone up much more than salaries...those who bought a 40K house in the 60s for one salary could never buy the $800K house today...
So, the question really is, has our consumption increased so much over the past (now we have the bigger houses, more MBs and BMWs than ever before, starphone bills at $200/month as opposed to a landline phone in the past for $20/month) that we cannot pay for it with one salary???...is that the fault of salaries that "fail to keep up" or the fact that we are spedning our money on more things we just "cannot live without" but have to figure out a way to pay for them
Houses, boats, motorcycles, smartphones, cable/NFL package bills, BMWs instead of Chevys and Fords, it all adds up...so, while we lament that one salary cannot afford this much, we didn't have "this much" to buy years ago...it isn't salaries that have not kept up, it is the fact that we want more things than we can afford, but no one wants to admit that they won;t buy the kids and Xbox ...
It isn't that we don;t earn enough, we simply insist on spending more and refuse to cut back
Bingo!
Don't forget the relative costs of fuel, (healthy) food, housing, education, medical, et al - not to mention any notion of retirement savings for those of us who can't see that light in the tunnel yet. Wage growth has trailed the price escalation of those factors to an insane degree. Trickle up economics.
I thought that I'd read that in inflation-adjusted dollars, the price of fuel is right around where it was 30 years ago.
I guess that's a too-tenuous fact, though. :shades:
When more experienced types whine about cheaper technology, they ignore the historical trend of technology aging and becoming more affordable over time. Or when others of the so-hardworking generation mention more are buying certain cars, they fail to grasp that the population is also higher, and said cars are cheaper than ever, and financing better than ever for those with decent credit. Apples to oranges issues with the issues I mentioned earlier.
That goes for our entire country...and it is unsustainable:
national debt visualization
I spent two weeks in a 2010 Honda Accord rental. They are also very noisy. I think Honda has pulled the wool over a lot of eyes.
30 years ago we were just recovering from 15% per year inflation. I know in 1960 I paid 19 cents a gallon. In today's dollars it is less than $1.50. I do have fuel records from 1979 and we filled the tank on the farm with diesel for $1.57 per gallon. Which in today's money would be $5.32 per gallon. BUT, oil was $30+ per barrel. Within 5 years it was back at $9 per barrel. Cars and housing has gone up more than fuel the last 50 years.
We have friends that took in a Japanese exchange student. He was NOTHING but trouble from day one. Came from a very wealthy family and felt he could do as he pleased. He got sent packing. I am not buying that foreign cultures are doing a better job with kids these days.
I think your 2 cents makes a lot of sense.