Buying American Cars What Does It Mean?

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Comments

  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Thats plenty for a RV like that. If I was ever going to get into RVing, which I don't think I ever would, I would get a sprinter like that and then two a couple of motorcycles on a dedicated trailer. You don't need a dinghy with a small rig like that but a couple of bikes would come in handy.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,543
    Surprising, I thought they cost more. I'd certainly rather have one of those than a V10 van based model. I bet the rig is still worth nearly what was paid, too.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Here is a 2005 just like mine listed for $54,995 with 8000 miles. So I probably could have kept it for another year and not lost any money. I looked at the Ford based Class C & B with V10. The guy was real proud that they would get 8-9 MPG. The ones built by Winnebago on the Sprinter chassis are only getting about 18 MPG. They do have a lot more room and a slide out or two. They are pushing $100k new. At least they are all assembled in the USA and the RV portion is all American made. I did buy mine in Colorado from a dealer in December. He was trying to get rid of inventory. The least I could get the same RV in San Diego was almost $10k more and would have to pay sales tax of 8.25%. So I saved the $10 grand and $5600 in sales tax by flying to Colorado and licensing it to my Alaska residence. I hear from the guy that bought it now and then. He and his 3 daughters are burning up the road. Took it all around the USA before his oldest left for college.

    http://www.rvtraderonline.com/find/listing/2005-FOREST-RIVER-MB-CRUISER-220-8601- 9343
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Is there such a thing anymore? You will be hard pressed to find any vehicle that is 100% USA made. "Made in America" can mean anything from the tip of South America to the Canadian Arctic. When I lived in Mexico they were quick to tell me that they were also "Americans".

    I would buy a Brazilian made Ford Ranger diesel in a New York second. Made in America..
  • wtd44wtd44 Member Posts: 1,208
    I very recently bought a new Pontiac Vibe 2009 AWD. It has a Toyota twin. I can honestly tell you that had only the Toyota Matrix been available, I would have just continued to smile when I saw one on the road, but I would never have bought one. On the other hand, I have purchased a few "off shore" branded cars and trucks. Perhaps it's the idea that buying vehicles that American manufacturers offer for sale is a better choice than the alternative, when equivalent or identical vehicles are offered for sale in the market place.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I was a long time GM truck fan. My last a 2005 GMC Hybrid PU. It ran fine with no problems. It was built tinny. The doors did not close right. The dealer was never able to get them to close solid. The body panels were so thin they dented when you were washing the vehicle. I sold it and needed another vehicle that was dependable. I wanted a diesel MB SUV. They had some issues and were way over priced used here in LaLa land. The Sequoia drives and rides nice and is built in Indiana. I got a heck of a buy. In fact what I saved will pay for the high priced gas probably as long as I own it.

    The Mercedes diesel I like is also Made In the USA. Most of the econoboxes are not made here.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    You are so right. I just acquired a 1997 Suburban to tow my boat and knock around in - Chevrolet, the Heartbeat of America, right? It's made in Guadalajara, Mexico! This is one of GM's best kept secrets, that their SUVs are made in Mexico..... The Avalance and Escalade EXT is also made at this plant.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    My 1998 Suburban was a great vehicle. I should have never sold it. Only had 45k miles after 7 years. Thought I needed a truck and bought the 05 GMC. GM trucks are not built as solid as they were prior to 1999.
  • 1stpik1stpik Member Posts: 495
    For at least 20 years, the big 3 have been waving the flag in our faces, but selling us out under the table. The execs ship the jobs to 3rd world countries, charge us the same prices for the products, and pocket the extra profits. Then when they've bled the companies dry, they fire tens of thousands of workers, they bail out with golden parachutes, and leave everyone else holding the bag.
  • nwngnwng Member Posts: 663
    wow, you sold yours already? Driving an RV (the sprinter is perfect) across the country and a good old bmw in the alps in germany/switzerland are two things that I'd want to do before i die.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    If I ever got the urge to buy another RV it would be the Sprinter for sure. We just did not use it as intended so it was kind of a waste to let it sit. The money is in a 4.65% CD and I like it there better. I would never expect the RV to increase in value. It would be nice to have a full sized SUV that gets 30 MPG on the highway. Where are the Big 3 when you need them?
  • mattandimattandi Member Posts: 588
    and pocket the extra profits

    Domestics with extra profits??? :surprise:
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Member Posts: 2,770
    I'd have to disagree. I have an '04 Chevy, and it's worlds better than my '91 GMC.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I had a 1990 & 1993 Chevrolet 3/4 ton 4X4 PU trucks. They were both great trucks. Sold the 1990 to a friend in Alaska and bought the 93 out of Seattle. I would still have that truck if not for a big buck in Sun Valley Idaho. My 2005 was just not as solid built. Though it was not a 4x4 or 3/4 ton. My Suburban was the 4X4 1500 and it was very solid built. Maybe I just got lucky. I don't remember spending a dime other than routine maintenance. Which is much lower cost at the dealers than Toyota. Including my latest 05 GMC. The 3 oil changes I had before selling that truck were all free with coupons the dealer sent me. No such thing with Toyota. I don't think I will continue using them for oil changes. $60 to change oil is a bit much with single weight cheapo oil.
  • hudsonthedoghudsonthedog Member Posts: 552
    The Toyota Matrix is built in a Toyota plant in Cambridge, Ontario, Canada. The Pontiac Vibe, however, is built in the NUMMI plant (a joint-venture between GM and Toyota) in Fremont, California. The NUMMI plant is a UAW plant.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    I've had a 97 Suburban (still do), an 02 Escalade EXT, 02 GMC Sierra, and the Escalade was the best of that bunch by far. Not too impressed with either of the other two. OTOH, I also had an 03 Ford F-150 and an 04 Toyota Tundra, both of which were worlds apart and miles ahead of the GM offerings, even the Escalade. And the Ford was the best of the Ford & Toyota. The Toyota was just as "good", but no where near as "much" truck as the Ford.

    Anyway, that's how I feel. YMMV :shades:
  • wtd44wtd44 Member Posts: 1,208
    Right you are. Yesterday I drove my 2002 Mercury Mountaineer Premier V8 through the mountains, on a field trip. If only the gas prices didn't spoil my enthusiasm. Now, when it comes to good SUVs, I sincerely believe this Merc is the best I have owned, and there have been many. I think it will qualify as an American vehicle, all the way around. Oh, and I only have 35K miles on it! :shades:
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,963
    Instead of Conquest rebates or "loyalty" rebates, offer "Burned Lemoned Customer rebates"

    It should be 5K and above and beyond other deals, incentives, and rebates.

    Now that would win back some conquests.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    I agree with you. My 2007 Mountaineer AWD V-8 Premier is AMAZING in the snow and ice and has the best AWD system I've ever experienced. The Explorer/Mountaineer is a remarkable product. The only weakness I have discovered in them, and this is my 7th Explorer/Mountaineer I have owned, is that Ford has trouble with their 6 speed automatic transmission and it often requires a re-programming flash to keep it working properly within parameters. Otherwise, the rig is about perfect, IMO. It will easily outperform my Suburban in any scenerio.
  • wtd44wtd44 Member Posts: 1,208
    Are you saying that one reflash does the trick, or are you saying that you have had to have it flashed several times? And is the reflash a free service?
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Here is some news. Long past due, I'm afraid.

    But in addition to give the Hummer brand the boot, GM is also considering putting another brand on the chopping block. The front runner for extermination looks to be GMC, although Pontiac is also said to be in the mix. GMC would seem to make the most sense as it has no unique products and only offers rebadged trucks and SUVs – not exactly the bread winners in today’s market.

    If GM does give GMC the ax, look for Saturn to replace it in the Buick-Pontiac-GMC channel.

    Pontiac’s demise is still possible, but less likely. Thanks to popular products like the G6, G8 and Solstice, Pontiac has a much stronger business case than GMC.

    Here is the link.

    link title

    Regards,
    OW
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    On this truck, one reflash did it, and it's covered under warranty.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    I believe GMC is GM's second biggest selling brand by volume, rebadged clones notwithstanding. The whole Pontiac, Buick GMC channel ought to buy the farm, IMO, with Saturn in it as well. These brands are just not needed anymore, and if GM is going to survive, it needs to get back to honest brands, like Chevrolet, Cadillac and.....and.....nobody else I guess.

    Ford needs to do Ford & Lincoln only.
  • motorcity6motorcity6 Member Posts: 427
    Now that housing and the Big3 have been thrashed, how does your stock account look, your IRA, Keogh, Roth have probably been battered up nicely..California is going up in flames with fire, taxes and trying to become green..Arnold S has finished off the state with what Gov.Davis started..

    Toyota and Honda seem to be riding high..In spite of my Big3 lifetime lovefest, I have been shopping for a Civic Si sedan which surprisingly are being heavily discounted..10% off MSRP..Coupes are plentiful, sedans are scarce, and some dealers will warn you that premium gas is required, big deal.One of the auto mags had a Si coupe on a low term test- believe around 40k miles and the results weren't too bad, gas mileage averaged around 26 over the haul..Looks like a fun car, no doubt noisy and darty..Most Hondas have a high noise level compared to Toys.., but then again my 06 GPGT is just full of noise and also thristy last tank of premium averaged 20.49mpg., up from the previous 18.76..It needs some highway driving and that will happen on 7/2, few miles of triple-digit running will restore it's health.

    I have never been in a Honda dealership, and via internet contact I am able to weed out the big shooters with the uppidity attitude and the slippery pricing..Florida is the hotbed for shafting seniors, however after owning 43 cars, I love to listen to the
    pitch and then take the lead..Florida has dealer fees, paperwork fees, doc fees, green fees and whatever fees they think they can sell..I don't dispute any fees and never discuss them, I give them a check for what I will pay for the car..period..They get about five to accept or reject--no deal I walk.never sweeten the deal..

    The Si has the old 2.0 Acura 4 banger engine with some modifications, would like to hear of any input or owner remarks..

    Now if I can pick up an 08 Mustang GT for 20,000 new , the Si is history. Ford will be running some giveaways in July.

    I love the down Stock Market, since I have been short on the S&P 500 since last Nov, got nice payouts in March and last week was pure joy..Right now I am on the sidelines--95% cash hoping we get a little bit of a bull market and then some of those good bears..

    I need the money to offset my Michigan real estate..

    I would be long on TM, toy stock, but lack of courage and betting on the enemy dampens my spirit..
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    The K20 in the Si is your typical high-output Honda mill: fairly sedate and inoffensive until you get high enough on the tach to find the VTEC lobes; the exact opposite of the domestic paradigm of having the full engine output available in the first 1/10 of pedal travel and nothing more past that. You'd probably drive the Civic for five minutes and hate it. A Cobalt SS would suit you better, if you want a car that size.
  • motorcity6motorcity6 Member Posts: 427
    thanks for the advice and the engine update. The Cobalt may be better suited to my driving habits, but it comes with a warmed-over body style along with a turbo-charger. I am not a fan of supercharging or turbo for the boost..Even though I have a supercharged Pontiac, it was a bargain with 4300 miles..The 3.8 GM engine is no great feat, but will cruise btw 80-90@low rpms w/o damage..This an interim car for another 3 months..

    Far from a [non-permissible content removed] car fan I assume the Si would be a stand alone model at resale time, with modest depreciation and might be out of production within a couple years, becoming a favorite in the tuner crowd..

    My thoughts to justify a crazy buy..At roughly 3000# it has to be somewhat tinny.

    Question----who offers a catback exhaust system for the 1.9-4 cyl. Accord engine..powering the 08 Accord EX...??????
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    The Si will definitely hold a bigger chunk of its value than most anything else in that segment, the coupe a little more than the sedan.

    As for the Accord, a quick search didn't turn up anything for the 190hp 2.4L but the stock exhaust on the EX is fairly free-flowing itself (Honda put noise cancellers in the headliner to counter some of the harmonics from the exhaust).
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    No surprises here. Toyotat could be #1 this month!

    AP
    Ford Motor's June sales skid 27.9 percent
    Tuesday July 1, 12:28 pm ET
    By Tom Krisher and Dee-Ann Durbin, AP Auto Writers
    Ford Motor's June sales drop 27.9 percent as high gas prices, sluggish economy take toll.

    DETROIT (AP) -- Ford Motor Co. says its U.S. sales tumbled 27.9 percent in June as high gas prices and a weak economy deepened the trouble facing the company.

    The company blames the decline on high gas prices and low consumer confidence that are sending buyers to the sidelines. Ford reports steep drops in sales of pickup trucks and sport utility vehicles.

    For the first half of the year, Ford's sales were down 14 percent compared with the year-ago period.

    Ford is the first automaker to report sales data Tuesday. Industry analysts expect June to be a dismal month for the industry with sales down double digits from last June.

    They also say Toyota Motor Corp. may take the U.S. sales lead from General Motors Corp.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    I have driven cars from everywhere over the years - I have owned a lot of Fords and several GM cars. Seeing as how cars are made everywhere by everybody, I'm not sure how much it means anymore to "buy American". But given the effort Ford and GM have recently gone to to revamp their product lines and produce some outstanding offerings, I sure hate to see them struggle like this and let Toyota take over the sales spot from GM. GM will never see that position again, it's inevitable. I'm afraid it's really over for the American car company, and we are left to re-define our auto industry as to what it's going to end up being someday, but dominant, it will never be again. Not with Japan doing what they do, Korea not far behind, and now China coming in behind them.

    I drive 2 Fords, a Lexus and a GM. I'm starting to feel just a little guilty over the Lexus today...... :surprise:
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Don't feel guilty. If a company continues to offer inferior products and does not recognize it's business model broke long ago, it's not your fault you bought a Lexus. It is a shame the entire country is represented here. There is a lesson in every change and an opportunity to improve.

    Buy what you need. Sometimes one makes a buy "For old times sake." (I'm done with that.)

    Whatever works.

    Regards,
    OW
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    Well, Toyota's down 11.5% so that might help your guilt. Might also help GM keep it's title for another month...

    Honda is up 13.8%.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    The AP is reporting a 21.4% drop for Toyota.

    "Toyota said Tuesday its car sales dropped 9.4 percent for the month, while its truck sales slipped 38.9 percent." Yahoo News
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Yeah, just heard that this won't be the month Toyota takes the crown from GM. But it is only a matter of time - inevitable.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    ...until they stop making 'em or I die, whichever comes first. If they stop making them and I'm still alive, it'll be nothing but used domestic iron from then on out.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Breaking news from the WSJ:

    "General Motors posts nearly 19% drop in U.S. sales for June, but wards off challenge to No. 1 ranking from Toyota."
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    You may be faced with the prospect of buying Chinese-designed and -built Buicks, if you have the opportunity to by new Buicks at all.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,062
    You may be faced with the prospect of buying Chinese-designed and -built Buicks, if you have the opportunity to by new Buicks at all.

    or if a Buick doesn't do it for ya, you can still get a nice, big, shiny new DeSoto!
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    What? No tail fins?
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • motorcity6motorcity6 Member Posts: 427
    4.75/gal, regular gas is great for the state that is full of "eco-whacks", it justice for the crowd that puts Polar Bears above all..

    New mission for the "eco-whacks"-----change the Polar Bears diet----they relish penquins..

    Things aren't too swift in Fla either, the eco-crowd loves turtles, manatees, scrub-jays, and everything else that chirps, bays,or crawls.

    There is a place in Northern Ohio that serves turtle soup---very tasty..

    By the way regular gas in Sarasota County, Fla is around 3.93...and premium is only .20 additional...No fires today either..90 degrees, very little humidity..

    Toy and Honda will slaughter the Big3 in the coming months and by the forgoing posts on this thread it will make many of you happy...Do they celebrate the 4th of July in ASIA?????

    Since I have been researching certain [non-permissible content removed] cars, I will only say that I have enjoyed the Big3 products over my 74 yrs and also made a good living selling to them..

    The local Buick, Pontiac,and GMC dealer in Venice has sold 95% of his used cars off---gone since Sunday on car carriers, last ones loading when I went to the beach today..

    I would say all dealers are upside down on used cars and drowning in debt from high allowances on tradeins..

    A Sarasota Honda dealer has a 2007 Civic Si w/18000 miles priced at 21500 when you can buy a new 08 for 19500...

    Bargains Galore in the coming months....an Si or GT Mustang.

    Thanks, "Bumpy" for the Honda chatter and sorry I screwed up on the engine sizes of the EX Honda Accord..Those Asian fellows make small, medium, and large four-bangers---confusing to an old Hoosier...
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Do they celebrate the 4th of July in ASIA?????

    No, they probably celebrate the 7th of December as our other "friends" elsewhere in the world celebrate the 11th of September.

    I could care less about the polar bears. They are among the most dangerous animals on the face of the earth and will eat you as soon as look at you. They are not the "cute" creatures you see in the Coca~Cola ads or what those eco-weenie probably believe.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Do they celebrate the 4th of July in ASIA?????

    No, they probably celebrate the 7th of December as our other "friends" elsewhere in the world celebrate the 11th of September.

    I could care less about the polar bears. They are among the most dangerous animals on the face of the earth and will eat you as soon as look at you. They are not the "cute" creatures you see in the Coca~Cola ads or what those eco-weenie probably believe.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Do they celebrate the 4th of July in ASIA?????

    Don't know about that but Happy Canada Day (where many "American" cars are made).
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,963
    Even better than GM and Ford's dismal numbers is this:
    Chrysler
    117,457 sales in June of 2008
    183,347 sales in June of 2007
    -35.9%

    Fantastic! Halleluhah! Hooray! Yippee!

    Goes to show you can only burn and spurn your customer base for so long before it comes back to bite ya! These amazing drops in sales are not just due to poor fuel economy, but also the fact that Chrysler has sold a few too many lemons, approximately 65,000 too many lemons in one month from last year; if you look at the drop in sales for a month from last year.

    The proof is in the pudding! If anyone should feel guilty, it is the Chrysler workers that took giant paychecks for incompetent performance. If anyone should issue refunds, I believe the former workers of Chrysler are most deserving of that dishonor. They should be paying everyone back for the lemons with their own paychecks that were truly unearned.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    I have been saying for months, only you said it better than I ever did...

    "The proof is in the pudding! If anyone should feel guilty, it is the Chrysler workers that took giant paychecks for incompetent performance. If anyone should issue refunds, I believe the former workers of Chrysler are most deserving of that dishonor. They should be paying everyone back for the lemons with their own paychecks that were truly unearned."

    Sadly, and I take no glee in this, autoworkers have been making junk for years...while they have no part in the design of the vehicle, many of them simply did not do their best when final assembly was done, and the cars were not as well made as competitors cars...

    While the autoworker did not decide that trucks would be their profit center, they could have made their smaller vehicles with quality so that we would return to the Big 3 for a smaller car...when you think of Vega, Pinto, Neon, and others, we made boat anchors...

    Honda and Toy seem to make money off smaller cars, Camry, Corolla, Civic and Accord are well made cars...oddly, their model names have been the same for...what???...20 years or more???

    It isn't the vehicle name that people shun, it is the lack of quality that sends folks away from Big 3...

    We will always have an auto industry here, but it will no longer be the dominant force in the labor market or the sales market...Big 3 or Big 2, they will be simply competitors to Toy, Hon, Nis and Hyundai...Big 3 will have about half the market and so will the imports...still large corporations, just not the biggest on the block...

    And they brought it on themselves, pure and simple...
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    The used iron will cost you in the long run. You are driving museum pieces!

    Regards,
    OW
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Dominance or biggest means nothing to me. Build me a rock solid performer that makes you feel good again. It's really that simple.

    I feel NOTHING with the current US made cars.

    Regards,
    OW
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    What Japanese car fits that criteria? There is nothing about driving a CamCord or Civolla that makes me feel good. We are demanding appliances that get good mileage. That is what we are getting from the US, Korean and Japanese auto makers.

    In fact if you want to see what the buyers are saying. Look at the consumer reviews here on Edmund's about the Malibu. There are 111 entries that give the car a very good 9.5 overall rating. The Accord is only 8.9 rated by owners. Maybe the US makers are passing their Japanese rivals in quality appliance cars.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,062
    The proof is in the pudding! If anyone should feel guilty, it is the Chrysler workers that took giant paychecks for incompetent performance. If anyone should issue refunds, I believe the former workers of Chrysler are most deserving of that dishonor. They should be paying everyone back for the lemons with their own paychecks that were truly unearned.

    I've had fairly good luck with Chrysler products over the years, but probably won't be buying a new one. It's not that I believe they build crap, but I'm just not that crazy about any of their current offerings. My 2000 Intrepid has been a pretty good car. 140,000 miles and still running well. But in today's climate, the 300/Charger are just too thirsty, while the Sebring/Stratus just don't do anything for me. I don't find them attractive at all, and don't care for their interiors. It's not quality concerns that scare me away, but it just seems like Honda, Toyota, Nissan, and now even GM and Ford have more competitive entries in this field.

    If I wanted a pickup, I'd probably go with a Silverado/Sierra over the Ram. I believe fuel economy is a bit better, and the GM trucks just seem better finished.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Well, I remember when we took the Ram pickup for a test drive at the Carlisle Mopar show. It is so far behind the Silverado and the F-150 it isn't funny. I still love the Chrysler 300 and the Dodge Charger, but their interiors are barren-looking. The Sebring/Avenger are colossal flops. The Avenger's a pretty car on the outside - sort of like a mini-Charger, but the interior almost looks Eastern-bloc. Sad because one of the best cars I've ever owned was a 1985 Chrysler Fifth Avenue.

    Now that Pontiac G8 GT...WHAT AN AWESOME RIDE!!! :shades:
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    But my 3-series fits the criteria big time and gets low to mid 20's which is good enough for me. In other words, the proposition works where the domestics lost that for me.

    The feeling reminds me of a time when an Olds was an Olds. Rock solid. No more. The offerings are basically meaningless.

    image

    In my world, the CamCords and Civolla's are not going to happen anyway.

    Regards,
    OW
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