Yes, but things change and the loss of Amrican jobs always gets the politicians moving, and I think their will be a backlash to all the GM and Ford job losses.
It's your buddies at Ford and GM who made the decision to export those jobs, yet you want to keep giving them your money.
Thanks to Toyota, Honda and the rest, Americans are still being employed in the auto industry. You should be sending them a thank you letter, rather than lashing out at them.
Then again, you still seem quite pleased with that German automaker Chrysler. Perhaps you'd like Toyota and Honda much better if they relocated their headquarters to Stuttgart and had white guys running the company?
>backlash to all the GM and Ford job losses........
It's hard to get upset over Batavia Ohio plant being closed because many of the workers will bump others at nearby plants in Louisville and Sharonville. And the workers have 2.5 years of pay before it runs out. I could retrain and find a different job in 2.5 years!!! I could even save up more and live off my earnings!
Well isnt that nice, I have a nest egg in various real estate and investments of over 50 years before it runs out, yet somehow I make it to work every day....... :surprise:
Somehow I just dont think American jobs should just disappear because Chinese trinkettes are 10 cents cheaper or Korean cars can be used as convenient disposible transportation......
Somehow I just dont think American jobs should just disappear because Chinese trinkettes are 10 cents cheaper or Korean cars can be used as convenient disposible transportation...
Is Marysville, Ohio in South Korea? I guess Mapquest must be wrong, because I could have sworn that Ohio was just south of Michigan.
still waiting on your proof that an American-made Honda is primarily made up of Japanese parts and a Mexican-made Ford is made up of primarily American parts. Seems like you've now dropped that repetitive rant and picked up a new one against kdhspyder ... and, once again, ignoring his points while you state over and over and over how jobs are disappearing.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Check the tranny, engine, drive train on your Accord, check all the major components and they are made in Japan, the A/C compressor will be Hiathachi or one of the others, check it out instead sitting on your intelligence.........
I don't know where, exactly, the Accord's a/c compressor comes from, but I've heard that it's the same place that my Intrepid's came from. I dunno, maybe it came from Canada? :shades:
like kd said, just because you say it is so, doesn't make it so.
it's unbelievable how you can deny something so obvious as the 70% US content of an Accord. That info is EASILY found all over the net, as well as through a simple trip to the dealer to look at the window stickers. Yet you just want to make completely unfounded statements and expect people to take your word?
here is a suggestion for the board - ignore this poster. he obviously adds no true information to the discussion and serves no purpose other than to repeat himself and act oblivious to any truly informative posts that some of you have made. This topic would be half as long if it weren't for all the repetitiveness he is causing.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
What do you mean by "vague rankings?" They sure aren't vague my friend. These rankings are based on the experiences of people who OWN these vehicles.
I believe you misread my post. I was commenting about another poster's "vague rants" that demand that we buy American cars, even though he seems unable to tell us what an "American car" actually is.
I've posted on this thread that I find JD Powers and Consumer Reports to be quite credible (the latter in spite of a somewhat flawed methodology of how it selects survey respondents.)
I've had similar experiences as well w/ the cars/trucks we've owned. Had an 86 Escort w/ 20K mile when I bought it and had costly problems every year til the engine finally quit on me at 50K miles. Nothing more annoying than a car that you're afraid to drive on a long drive for fear of it breaking down. Owned 2 Subaru sedans, had good reliability w/ both. Currently own a 95 Accord (144K miles), 94 Maxima (220K miles) and recently bought a used Tacoma (114K miles). Never had any problems w/ the Accord, the Maxima just had its trans replaced at 196K, and the Tacoma needed the throttle cable replaced. I did own a Chevy Tahoe for 2 yrs before getting the Tacoma and while I loved the size and comfort, I've had the alternator, fuel pump and transmission replaced in those 2 yrs. That all happened in just under 100K miles. I don't have it now because it was totaled in an accident. Reputation is a hard thing to earn and my experiences leave me wary of some GM & Ford products. My dad just got rid of his Silverado because of too many problems w/ the rear axle and gears. And he was a life-long Chevy man, but he now drives a F-150. I say for those that don't like reviews from Consumer Reports, read the reviews from other consumers. There are sites out there where consumers can post their experiences w/ vehicles. I guess that's 3 cents worth.
We've had a trade deficit every year since 1978. Three Republican presidents have presided over its growth, and a Republican Congress overwhelmingly supported NAFTA. Spend less time typing out rants and more time reading, and maybe you'll begin to see that it isn't a partisan issue Wasn't Billy Bubba in there somewhere. As I recall he was a BIG supporter of NAFTA.
Wasn't Billy Bubba in there somewhere. As I recall he was a BIG supporter of NAFTA.
If you are referring to Bill Clinton, then yes, he was a supporter of NAFTA.
As I've already pointed out, support of free trade is not a partisan issue. The Republican and Democratic parties both supported NAFTA, and presidents of both parties have seen increasing trade deficits during their presidencies.
In any case, let's talk about cars. If you really want fewer imports, then tell the automakers to build their cars in the US, and to build cars here that we want to buy. Maybe you're different, but the last thing I want to do with $20-30,000 of my hard-earned cash is to spend it on a second-rate car that I don't particularly like. Why would I want to do something as foolish as that?
Well I got half the answer. Production. employment seems more difficult. But for the moment.
1985 N.A. Auto/Light Truck production: 11,360,000 units 2005 N.A. Auto/Light Truck production: 15,788,000 units
In 20 years the auto industry production has grown by 39%. This is hardly an industry in the throes of death. It's pretty damn vibrant if you ask me.!!
Good going spyder, you are a allright in my eyes no matter what those credit card compnies have in their records....
If the industry is growing, then someone is eating a very large portion of the pie in order for GM and Ford to be hurting to the point of bankruptcy, we would practically have to rebuild the history of the auto industry for the last 20 years to see where the heck they went wrong and started on this track.......
My whole life growing up was spent in some sort of chevy, that was just the type of family i was in.. but i remember most of my life growing up working on our cars and trucks at home, never thinking much of it. untill the time came when i broke the tradition and bought a 2002 honda accord 2dr coupe EX v6, I have never spent any time working on this car, it's got the horse power i want the luxury i want and the look i want. AS FOR THE JOBS THERE WILL ALWAYS BE JOBS OUT THERE. if your to lazy to go look for new ones cause the company you worked for went out of business thats your faulght. start a new buisness, go work at mcdonalds, get rid of the pride and work.
I know people with Escorts who've treated them marginally and have them running at 130K. A problem with a used car is you don't know what happened to it early in life. A local sales lot specializes in company cars and employee lease type cars so he can show the maintenance on the car--and he charges a higher price for the privilege.
I can cite an alternator that lost a diode at 70K on a 3800, my current one at 130K, and 36K mi. Transmissions do seem to have patterns. A percentage of the GM's trucks have failure-neighbor hasn't lost one yet in his large Tahoes he has had through the years. Look at Pilots and Odysseys and other Honda's patterns on transmissions.
I don't understand the difference in foreign brand perceived dependability vs American brands when price is valued into the mix.
The Big Two are losing market share fairly steadily, as you'd expect, given the product line. So you had better hope that the nasty "foreigners" shift production to the US if you want Americans to keep working in the auto industry.
From AP via Business Week: ________________ "U.S. automakers see sales drop in 2005" The auto industry finished 2005 in a familiar pattern, with U.S. market share continuing to slip from U.S. automakers to their Asian competitors. Japanese automakers reported the year's biggest sales gains.
Combined U.S. market share for General Motors Corp., Ford Motor Co. and DaimlerChrysler AG's Chrysler Group fell to an unprecedented low of 56.9 percent, down from 61.7 percent three years ago, according to Autodata Corp. At the same time, Toyota Motor Corp., Honda Motor Co., Nissan Motor Co. and other Asian brands saw their U.S. market share climb to 36.5 percent from 34.6 percent in 2002.... ________________
The top five passenger cars sold in the US during 2005 were from Toyota, Honda and Nissan. GM, Ford and Chrysler still dominate truck sales. (Let's see how long it takes production of those to get outsourced to Mexico...)
Well I got half the answer. Production. employment seems more difficult. But for the moment.
1985 N.A. Auto/Light Truck production: 11,360,000 units 2005 N.A. Auto/Light Truck production: 15,788,000 units
In 20 years the auto industry production has grown by 39%. This is hardly an industry in the throes of death. It's pretty damn vibrant if you ask me.!!
Remember back in 1985 the Soviet Union was in shambles, bicycles and foot power were dominant in China and India used trains and buses. Most of the growth in the world is in what used to be called the '3rd world' - which is now fast becoming the most attractive market in the world. It's not a surprise that the rest of the world is growing faster than the US market. China is 5 times larger than the US and India is 3 times larger than the US. It's why the focus by every manufacturer is not here but in Asia.
Some people on this forum say we should buy Ford and GM cars instead of Toyota or Honda cars because this will help our economy. The main problem that I have with this argument is that GM and Ford invest heavily over seas. If Domestic car industry was so concerned about American economy then why did Ford spend all of this money to buy Jaguar, Volvo, Land Rover.
Where do you think the money to purchase these brands came from? I would say it came from American consumers. I don't even know how much money Ford wasted on Jaguar while closing plants here in America. The money Ford wasted on Jaguar could have been used to design and build better cars right here in USA. But instead its used to support outdated luxury brand that is irrelevant in modern world.
Did GM really have to give $2,000,000,000 to Fiat to simply end a very stupid deal? The point is that simply and blindly purchasing Domestic cars from Ford and GM does nothing for our economy unless these companies reinvest the money right here in USA.
If you look at the past investments of Ford and GM, I would say that they sent a lot of our hard earned money over seas to invest in very bad deals. I would call that money down the drain. At least Toyota and Honda are investing money in America instead of GM and Ford sending our money to other countries.
Do you realize the staggering amount of money that has been funneled out of the country because of American car companies pushing gas guzzlers on us for the past 15 years? Our average mpg is probably half what it should be and all that gas we have to import for all of our millions of AMERICAN MADE guzzlers is beyond comprehension! Good riddance SUV top heavy Ford, we wont miss ya!
Well exactly not only do "Domestics" funnel the money out of USA and invest it in dubious ventures, but they also cause great amount of trade deficit. I honestly think that the only people who will be sorry to see GM and Ford go are UAW members. Every body else will be far better off without these so called "Domestic" helpers.
They've made very poor strategic decisions over the last 10-20 years. They've agreed to ridiculous union contracts when times were fat. They ignored future trends in fuel prices. They lived in the moment and partied on. Where is the GM interior like the one on my Audi A4? Where is the Ford product that has the features of my Acura TL in the same price range? Why does our 1994 Mecury Villager have 198K miles and still going strong? (hint: Nissan engine/transmission).
It's NOT ABOUT AMERICA BEING COMPETITIVE. It's about stupid, inept companies.
Let's compare Ford and GM to Apple Computer. The computer business is commodity. Apple computer is thriving because they are innovative and stylish. They also rank with the most consistent reliability and customer service.
Where is the American car company like this? They COULD DO IT.
Apple computer KILLED one of its top selling products last August - the ipod mini. They killed it because they introduced the ipod nano - it was even better and more stylish!
Where is the American car company who is that daring? Apple is the BMW of computer manufacturers!
I don't see any American car company even close to that level of capability.
The competition of the market will straighten it out in due course.
When looking at the market, it helps to look at long-term trends instead of focusing solely on "where the money goes" (which isn't all that important in a global economy, as even a fair portion of the profits earned by Honda, Toyota and Nissan that "go back to Japan" will ultimately end up here anyway).
The transplants are increasingly dependent on the American market for profits. Why? The Japanese market has been depressed since the early 1990s, primarily because of too much protectionism and certain Japanese business practices (banks have been unwilling to call in bad loans, which would force the debtor companies into bankruptcy, thus freeing the capital for other, more productive purposes). Which should refute the notion that those profits supposedly being funneled back to Japan are somehow making them rich and us poor. Sorry, but the Japanese would LOVE to have our economic growth rate and unemployment figures.
Guess what Toyota, Honda and Nissan are doing with more of their profits - investing them in design and engineering facilities right here in the good old U.S.A. Some people must have missed the stories about Toyota locating a brand-new engineering complex right in Michigan, which, the last time I checked, was part of the continental United States.
A car company that wants to have a major presence in a particular market must not only build cars in that market, but also design and engineer them there as well. That is why GM and Ford have self-contained subsidiaries in Europe, Australia and South America that design, engineer and build cars specifically tailored for those markets (as opposed to importing American-built cars). That is why Honda, Toyota and Nissan will do the same thing here.
If I recall correctly, the number of people employed in auto manufacturing in the United States has actually held steady over the past few years, or only declined slightly. Granted, the UNIONIZED sector is in trouble, while the transplant sector is doing quite well. (And why, exactly, do the transplants have an obligation to hire ex-UAW workers? Has the UAW been granted some sort of monopoly on all auto-related jobs within the United States? Based on what I've seen regarding the UAW in the papers and read on various message boards from actual members, the last person I'd hire would be a UAW member.)
Plus, I can't help but notice that we keep raising the bar for the Japanese. First, it was "if you sell it here, then build it here." Even Lee Iacocca echoed this line in the 1980s.
Now that they are "building them here," providing Americans with well-paying assembly jobs apparently isn't good enough. We want engineering and design jobs as well (and the transplants are now supposed to employ all out-of-work UAW members, too). Now that those jobs are coming here, we're all of a sudden worried that a dollar may be shipped out of the country to Japan (never mind that protectionist Japan is hardly a bastion of prosperity).
Incidentally, if you are upset about the loss of jobs in the supplier sector and the increased presence of GM, Ford and Chrysler in Mexico and China - a big culprit is the UAW. Why? With high labor costs, the domestics have to cut costs wherever possible. One way to do that is to outsource production to low-cost locales. That is why Ford is producing the Fusion in Mexico. At least this way the company can make a profit on the car, which in turn will enable it to revamp it sooner, and make it more competitive with the ever-improving Camry and Accord.
Out of all the major parties, the UAW is the one that has not made any major sacrifices. White-collar workers have experience pay freezes, benefit cuts and, in some cases, outright layoffs. Stockholders have seen the value of their investment plummet, and may be faced with a dividend reduction (or outright elimination of the dividend). Suppliers have been forced into bankruptcy. The UAW, meanwhile, maintains full pay and benefits, along with the Jobs Bank that pays laid-off workers 95 percent of take-home pay for doing nothing...all while the parent companies gush red ink.
I’m not certain so I’m just throwing this out there.
Ideally I think what we would want is the $’s spent on the total creation of the car, American, to remain in the US, but I think it’s too hard to determine “where” an automobile was created.
Just using Ford as an example.
Where does the R&D take place? This is difficult to answer because Ford may not design all their parts, just pass on design requirements to other engineering companies. Where are the parts are created? Who did the R&D for the parts? What about the raw materials that are used in those parts? Does the leather have to come from an American cow?
So, if Ford hires a company to make an alternator, does that company have to be an American company what if that company has a sub-contractor or that company a sub-contractor. What if one of the sub-contractors is a global American company that has facilities throughout the world and a US citizen working, and living, over seas designed and created this fictional alternator was the alternator American made?
What if 100% of Ford’s sub contracts are non-American does it still make the vehicle American if it is designed and put together in the US?
I’m beginning to hurt my brain
My understanding is that a manufacturing plant just “plugs” the parts together. So if a Ford is designed in the US and the parts are designed AND created in the US does it matter if they just plug all the parts together in Mexico?
What portion, or percentage, of a vehicle’s total $’s does “putting it together” constitute? 10%-50%...don’t know.
Conversely, if Honda engineers and produces all their parts in Japan (I don’t think they do just making the argument), then plugs all the parts together in the US, it doesn’t seem like it’s doing us any favors; except giving us a few more factory positions.
Unlike others remarks telling laid off workers to swallow their pride and go work at McDonalds, I do feel for people who are loosing their income. What about the mortgage payment (and all the other huge bills coming into a household), benefits -- can’t tell your sick child to suck it up and go get a job. I don’t know about everybody else, but my current financial situation cannot withstand a 20-50% decrease in salary.
It would be nice if somebody, with a lot of time and much more intelligent than myself, could give a thorough analysis of where the $’s that constitute the price of the vehicle go not just “10% of the content is from Japan” .and what does the content on the window mean?
If it says 10% from Japan does it mean out of the total parts, 10% of the parts are from Japan? So if there are 100,000 parts to a car, does the engine count as 1 part? The transmission another part? 10% content from Japan really doesn’t mean much if the engine, transmission, chassis & suspension are in that 10%.
I can only go by my personal experience and what I've seen from people I know. I got "burned" on the escort and would never buy another one. I've owned 2 Chevy Blazer/Tahoe type vehicles and had transmission problems w/ both. Granted, the K5 Blazer had over 170K when it went out, but the Tahoe did not. I have an uncle that is a diehard Chevy man and he's gone through plenty of transmissions on his Chevy trucks, mostly in under 100K. I didn't abuse the Tahoe, took very good care of it because I really liked the vehicle for size and comfort on long trips. Would love to have kept it for long term except for the breakdown repair costs. That gets old real quick. I realize not all foriegn cars are high on reliability, but the ones I've owned have been low cost on maintenance. I know the Maxima has had power window problems, but the engine still runs smooth w/ 220K on it. I also base my opinion on other family members and their experiences.
Under the AALA, every passenger vehicle manufactured after October 1, 1994 and sold in the United States must have a label indicating:
1) the percentage by value of equipment installed on the vehicle which originated in the United States and Canada1 combined,
2) the final assembly point of the vehicle,
3) the country of origin of the engine and transmission, and
4) the names of at least two of the countries accounting for the greatest percent of the value of the equipment installed on the vehicle when 15 percent or more of the value of the equipment installed originates in a country other than the United States and Canada...
...The content calculation used to determine U.S./Canadian origin employs a "parts only" approach. Labor costs incurred at the point of assembly, as well as advertising expenses, profits and interest payments are not included in the evaluation.
The original AALA specified that, for purposes of determining the U.S. or Canadian percentage of parts content, any equipment from outside suppliers that was at least 70 percent U.S. or Canadian was valued at 100 percent U.S./Canadian. Any equipment below 70 percent, even if only slightly below 70 percent, was valued at 0 percent. The NHTSA Reauthorization Act of 1998 amended the AALA to eliminate the "roll-down" portion of this provision. Any equipment under 70 percent is now valued to the nearest 5 percent.
Labor is the most expensive component that goes into assembly, so building a car with a few American/Canadian parts (30% of the parts value, such as is the case with the Ford Fusion) with Mexican labor effectively eliminates much involvement from Americans, aside from the R&D, dealer network, etc.
If a car is built in the US with American workers and a high percentage of US/Canadian content, as is a Toyota Camry, you can bet that does more to put money in the pockets of US blue collar laborer than does the Fusion built in another country.
Well lets take a look at the Toyota Camry and Honda Accord and see what kind of rating they could get in terms of "American Made"...
1) The parts are shipped over from Japan so the percentage by value of equipment installed on the vehicle which originated in the United States is low, and Canada as has been so duly pointed out is not part of the US but a outside nation equivilent to Mexico.
2) If you have the parts anyone can put it together whether it be Canada, Mexico, or the US so the final assembly point of the vehicle gets few points except for the low skilled labor.
3) Japan is the country of origin of the engine and transmission, so all that profit goes overseas.
4) Japan, of course is predominant as the names of at least two of the countries accounting for the greatest percent of the value of the equipment installed on the vehicle when 15 percent or more of the value of the equipment installed originates in a country other than the United States and Canada...
5)The content calculation used to determine U.S./Canadian origin employs a "parts only" approach but we are looking for "American Made" so it is a main component of what makes a American car and these cars still have a high content made in Japan.
6) On Labor we have American workers assembling so this is a plus for jobs in the US.
7) For marketing, advertising expenses, profits and interest payments are also a factor, but the main profit and investment still goes back to Japan before these even show up on the ledger.
8) Ownership of the ships and the overseas shipping has traditionally been Japanese, so all that profit goes overseas.
So to rate these cars it would still come up as mostly Japanese but lets see if we have any experts with better data to update us.........
You are clearly just making this stuff up as you go along:
The parts are shipped over from Japan so the percentage by value of equipment installed on the vehicle which originated in the United States is low, and Canada as has been so duly pointed out is not part of the US but a outside nation equivilent to Mexico.
Read the link in #708. "US/Canadian content" is defined as the value of the parts. For the parts to labelled as US/Canadian, they have to come from the US or Canada.
If you have the parts anyone can put it together whether it be Canada, Mexico, or the US so the final assembly point of the vehicle gets few points except for the low skilled labor.
The cost of labor is the single most expensive aspect of car production, and creates incomes for the thousands of workers with jobs, plus tax payments to their governments. Why do you think GM and Ford are so busy trying to outsource US jobs?
Japan is the country of origin of the engine and transmission, so all that profit goes overseas.
Honda's largest engine plant is in Ohio. Its US engine production capacity is about 1.4 million units per year. And my favorite bit -- Honda makes motors for GM. So more untruths from you.
The content calculation used to determine U.S./Canadian origin employs a "parts only" approach but we are looking for "American Made" so it is a main component of what makes a American car and these cars still have a high content made in Japan.
Complete gibberish. The parts come from the US or Canada, which is why they are labelled as such. Read the content law -- the law does not allow firms to take foreign parts, assemble them in the US or Canada, and then call them US/Canadian. No matter how you slice it, there are more American/Canadian parts in a Camry or Accord than there are in a Fusion or a GTO.
Ownership of the ships and the overseas shipping has traditionally been Japanese, so all that profit goes overseas.
They are publicly owned companies. The profits that aren't reinvested into the business go to the owners of the company, who are the stockholders. Toyota and Honda are both listed on the NYSE -- you know, the one in New York.
At least Honda is building new facilities in the US, that will employ more Americans. You can't say that about either Ford or GM.
I'm just giving you the overall context of the parts and other components that come with a Camry or Accord, now if you have all the car data including financials, marketing, advertisng, transportation, R&D, labor, etc... that goes into each car then we could come up with a determination of what makes a "American Car" otherwise it is a exercize in futility........
The only way to come up with a determination, as I said in the very beggining, is to look at the company, the jobs it creates, where the majority of the moneys go, and the amount of business and investment that stays in the US, then maybe break down the actual car if feasible. That is the best way to come up with what makes a "American Car" and as you can see the break down the actual car is useless without the actual data for the individual cars the company makes. Having it for one car for Ford doesnt cut it, having it for a catagory such as Mid-Size would be good, and having it for the overall cars a company makes would be the ideal....... :shades:
Im giving you the overall context of the parts and other components that come with a Camry or Accord, now if you have all the car data including financials, marketing, advertisng, transportation, R&D, labor, etc... that goes into each car then we could come up with a determination of what makes a "American Car" otherwise it is a exercize in futility.
What a crock. You honestly don't know what you're talking about.
You dont have any data to prove what makes a car "American" one way of the other for GM and Ford and the others, so it's basically at a deadlock on that issue, but your just too prejudiced in your views to see it..........
You dont have any data to prove what makes a car "American" one way of the other, so it's basically at a deadlock on that issue, but your just too prejucdice in your view to see it...
You don't think that knowing the origin of the parts and the point of assembly is enough information? You must be kidding.
If the majority of money goes and ends up in Japan creating more jobs and business there, how does that benefit you or me and the rest of America........ :confuse:
When you go to buy "Made in America" what you ar looking for are the products from companies that will put the most money in American workers pockets at the Investment, R&D, parts manufacturing, transportation, marketing, and sales, etc.....
If the majority of money goes and ends up in Japan creating more jobs and business there, how does that benefit you or me and the rest of America...
False yet again. Most of the money ends up being paid out in expenses -- parts, labor, transportation, taxes. And a large proportion of those costs related to an Accord or Camry with 70% US/Canadian content is being paid to Americans. Compare that to your friends in Dearborn and Detroit, who'd rather give the money to Mexicans.
Let's face it -- you don't like these companies, no matter how many US taxes they pay or Americans they employ, because they are Asians who don't look like you. You have zero qualms about paying the money to the Germans who manage Chrysler, but you get all prickly when a guy who speaks Japanese does the very same thing.
Well lets take a look at the Toyota Camry and Honda Accord and see what kind of rating they could get in terms of "American Made"...
OK you asked for the facts: step-by-step
1) The parts are shipped over from Japan so the percentage by value of equipment installed on the vehicle which originated in the United States is low, and Canada as has been so duly pointed out is not part of the US but a outside nation equivilent to Mexico.
This is false. The parts are not shipped over from Japan. The label on a KY-made Camry reads 80% of parts are US/Canadian. 20% are from Japan. This is parts only it does not include labor or assembly, which is obviously 100% American.
2) If you have the parts anyone can put it together whether it be Canada, Mexico, or the US so the final assembly point of the vehicle gets few points except for the low skilled labor.
see above comment.
3) Japan is the country of origin of the engine and transmission, so all that profit goes overseas.
This is false. The engine is 100% American made in W. Virginia or Alabama depending. 4) Japan, of course is predominant as the names of at least two of the countries accounting for the greatest percent of the value of the equipment installed on the vehicle when 15 percent or more of the value of the equipment installed originates in a country other than the United States and Canada...
5)The content calculation used to determine U.S./Canadian origin employs a "parts only" approach but we are looking for "American Made" so it is a main component of what makes a American car and these cars still have a high content made in Japan.
80% US is "American made" parts so the the vehicle is predominantly American.
6) On Labor we have American workers assembling so this is a plus for jobs in the US.
7) For marketing, advertising expenses, profits and interest payments are also a factor, but the main profit and investment still goes back to Japan before these even show up on the ledger.
This is not true. Expenses are always deducted before profit is calculated. Basic Accounting. False premise.
8) Ownership of the ships and the overseas shipping has traditionally been Japanese, so all that profit goes overseas.
This is true. But it only applies to the Transmission, which is made in Japan. minor, minor expense this transport.
So to rate these cars it would still come up as mostly Japanese but lets see if we have any experts with better data to update us.........
As you can see most of your suppostions are incorrect. I'm reading off the label on a brand new Camry. This has 80% of it's parts made here and 100% of the Assembly, Marketing, Sales, Distribution. This effectively pushes the total content well into the 90%+ range.
Funny, since 1983 my cars have been Honda's or Acuras, my girlfriend bought a Accord, I negotiated her mothers Accord, I negotiated my sister's Accord, my fathers Accord, my brother's, my best buddy, to say nothing of friends and neighbors etc... over 40 cars and I dont really keep track of the SUV's and trucks......
For my trucks I get buller-proof Toyota's (I have 3 at the moment), yet somehow your twisted to the point that you state I don't like these "Asian" companies, specifically the Japanese. You need a complete medical to see how you come up with this rationalizations...
Now, for a Honda/Acura man such as I to come in and say we need to support American products and companies shows I have no other motive except to help American jobs, and American business's and investment.
Now, for a Honda/Acura man such as I to come in and say we need to support American products and companies shows I have no other motive except to help American jobs, and American business's and investment.
Still haven't told us why you believe that the German-owned Chrysler is an "American" business, while cars designed and built in the US with US/Canadian parts with Japanese nameplates are "foreign."
I've met people outside the US who can tell me that they don't like the US as they nosh on Big Macs and Cokes while listening to Madonna and planning their vacations to Florida. You seem to have a similar relationship with the Japanese.
Can someone point out an on-line resource where one can determine the 'domestic' parts contents of any car sold in the U.S.? My googling skills leave much to be desired....
Also, I find it interesting that the % of domestic content on the label only has to do with the value of the parts and DOESN'T take into account the value of the final assembly. For some reason, I was under the impression that the % indicated the total value of the cars (parts AND assembly).
Yes, just be blind to years of reliability and pray that Chevy's will get better. Who cares about current 90 day number reports? You must be a hopeless GM devotee that thinks you should pay more for poor quality.
Well, that's fine and dandy, but it's been a while since I:
1) was in a dealership shopping for a car 2) paid any attention to the label since the % of domestic content hasn't entered into my decision making process since......?
Still trying to find an on-line resource which lists domestic parts content. Don't relish the idea of having to visit all those dealerships reading labels.....
You are lucky that you didn't have to replace the lower intake manifold gaskets, the water pump and the starter on the Tahoe. Those are all GM specialties guarenteed to break before 100,000 miles which is probably why the warrenty is only good for 36,000. I think the cheap parts used are made to last 36,001 miles.
Comments
It's your buddies at Ford and GM who made the decision to export those jobs, yet you want to keep giving them your money.
Thanks to Toyota, Honda and the rest, Americans are still being employed in the auto industry. You should be sending them a thank you letter, rather than lashing out at them.
Then again, you still seem quite pleased with that German automaker Chrysler. Perhaps you'd like Toyota and Honda much better if they relocated their headquarters to Stuttgart and had white guys running the company?
It's hard to get upset over Batavia Ohio plant being closed because many of the workers will bump others at nearby plants in Louisville and Sharonville. And the workers have 2.5 years of pay before it runs out. I could retrain and find a different job in 2.5 years!!! I could even save up more and live off my earnings!
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Somehow I just dont think American jobs should just disappear because Chinese trinkettes are 10 cents cheaper or Korean cars can be used as convenient disposible transportation......
Is Marysville, Ohio in South Korea? I guess Mapquest must be wrong, because I could have sworn that Ohio was just south of Michigan.
WalMart trinkets are not cogent to this discussion. That rant is for another venue, say: WalMart ( select your rant from list)
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
like kd said, just because you say it is so, doesn't make it so.
it's unbelievable how you can deny something so obvious as the 70% US content of an Accord. That info is EASILY found all over the net, as well as through a simple trip to the dealer to look at the window stickers. Yet you just want to make completely unfounded statements and expect people to take your word?
here is a suggestion for the board - ignore this poster. he obviously adds no true information to the discussion and serves no purpose other than to repeat himself and act oblivious to any truly informative posts that some of you have made. This topic would be half as long if it weren't for all the repetitiveness he is causing.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Better do some homework on that one.
I believe you misread my post. I was commenting about another poster's "vague rants" that demand that we buy American cars, even though he seems unable to tell us what an "American car" actually is.
I've posted on this thread that I find JD Powers and Consumer Reports to be quite credible (the latter in spite of a somewhat flawed methodology of how it selects survey respondents.)
I say for those that don't like reviews from Consumer Reports, read the reviews from other consumers. There are sites out there where consumers can post their experiences w/ vehicles. I guess that's 3 cents worth.
Wasn't Billy Bubba in there somewhere. As I recall he was a BIG supporter of NAFTA.
If you are referring to Bill Clinton, then yes, he was a supporter of NAFTA.
As I've already pointed out, support of free trade is not a partisan issue. The Republican and Democratic parties both supported NAFTA, and presidents of both parties have seen increasing trade deficits during their presidencies.
In any case, let's talk about cars. If you really want fewer imports, then tell the automakers to build their cars in the US, and to build cars here that we want to buy. Maybe you're different, but the last thing I want to do with $20-30,000 of my hard-earned cash is to spend it on a second-rate car that I don't particularly like. Why would I want to do something as foolish as that?
1985 N.A. Auto/Light Truck production: 11,360,000 units
2005 N.A. Auto/Light Truck production: 15,788,000 units
In 20 years the auto industry production has grown by 39%. This is hardly an industry in the throes of death. It's pretty damn vibrant if you ask me.!!
Well done America! End of rants.
If the industry is growing, then someone is eating a very large portion of the pie in order for GM and Ford to be hurting to the point of bankruptcy, we would practically have to rebuild the history of the auto industry for the last 20 years to see where the heck they went wrong and started on this track.......
I know people with Escorts who've treated them marginally and have them running at 130K. A problem with a used car is you don't know what happened to it early in life. A local sales lot specializes in company cars and employee lease type cars so he can show the maintenance on the car--and he charges a higher price for the privilege.
I can cite an alternator that lost a diode at 70K on a 3800, my current one at 130K, and 36K mi. Transmissions do seem to have patterns. A percentage of the GM's trucks have failure-neighbor hasn't lost one yet in his large Tahoes he has had through the years. Look at Pilots and Odysseys and other Honda's patterns on transmissions.
I don't understand the difference in foreign brand perceived dependability vs American brands when price is valued into the mix.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
From AP via Business Week:
________________
"U.S. automakers see sales drop in 2005"
The auto industry finished 2005 in a familiar pattern, with U.S. market share continuing to slip from U.S. automakers to their Asian competitors. Japanese automakers reported the year's biggest sales gains.
Combined U.S. market share for General Motors Corp., Ford Motor Co. and DaimlerChrysler AG's Chrysler Group fell to an unprecedented low of 56.9 percent, down from 61.7 percent three years ago, according to Autodata Corp. At the same time, Toyota Motor Corp., Honda Motor Co., Nissan Motor Co. and other Asian brands saw their U.S. market share climb to 36.5 percent from 34.6 percent in 2002....
________________
The top five passenger cars sold in the US during 2005 were from Toyota, Honda and Nissan. GM, Ford and Chrysler still dominate truck sales. (Let's see how long it takes production of those to get outsourced to Mexico...)
Detroit News - "GM, Ford lose more ground"
1985 N.A. Auto/Light Truck production: 11,360,000 units
2005 N.A. Auto/Light Truck production: 15,788,000 units
In 20 years the auto industry production has grown by 39%. This is hardly an industry in the throes of death. It's pretty damn vibrant if you ask me.!!
Well done America! End of rants.
from federal Bureau of Transportation statistics (2005) at http://www.bts.gov/publications/national_transportation_statistics/2005/index.ht- ml
Production of American passenger cars as percentage of world production.
1981 23%
2004 10%
I would take those numbers with a grain of salt.
2004 10%
I would take those numbers with a grain of salt.
Clarify, please.
Remember back in 1985 the Soviet Union was in shambles, bicycles and foot power were dominant in China and India used trains and buses. Most of the growth in the world is in what used to be called the '3rd world' - which is now fast becoming the most attractive market in the world. It's not a surprise that the rest of the world is growing faster than the US market. China is 5 times larger than the US and India is 3 times larger than the US. It's why the focus by every manufacturer is not here but in Asia.
P.S. Here, btw, are the references for the NA stats. I forgot them in the original post.
1985 production: http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0104789.html
2005 production: http://www.morgancom.com/automotivenews.htm
page down to Jan 20th release.
Where do you think the money to purchase these brands came from? I would say it came from American consumers. I don't even know how much money Ford wasted on Jaguar while closing plants here in America. The money Ford wasted on Jaguar could have been used to design and build better cars right here in USA. But instead its used to support outdated luxury brand that is irrelevant in modern world.
Did GM really have to give $2,000,000,000 to Fiat to simply end a very stupid deal? The point is that simply and blindly purchasing Domestic cars from Ford and GM does nothing for our economy unless these companies reinvest the money right here in USA.
If you look at the past investments of Ford and GM, I would say that they sent a lot of our hard earned money over seas to invest in very bad deals. I would call that money down the drain. At least Toyota and Honda are investing money in America instead of GM and Ford sending our money to other countries.
Saudi Arabia
Iran
Venezuela
Now there's 3 countries I'd like to have at my back in an alley fight.
They've made very poor strategic decisions over the last 10-20 years.
They've agreed to ridiculous union contracts when times were fat.
They ignored future trends in fuel prices.
They lived in the moment and partied on.
Where is the GM interior like the one on my Audi A4?
Where is the Ford product that has the features of my Acura TL in the same price range?
Why does our 1994 Mecury Villager have 198K miles and still going strong? (hint: Nissan engine/transmission).
It's NOT ABOUT AMERICA BEING COMPETITIVE. It's about stupid, inept companies.
Let's compare Ford and GM to Apple Computer.
The computer business is commodity.
Apple computer is thriving because they are innovative and stylish. They also rank with the most consistent reliability and customer service.
Where is the American car company like this? They COULD DO IT.
Apple computer KILLED one of its top selling products last August - the ipod mini. They killed it because they introduced the ipod nano - it was even better and more stylish!
Where is the American car company who is that daring? Apple is the BMW of computer manufacturers!
I don't see any American car company even close to that level of capability.
The competition of the market will straighten it out in due course.
The transplants are increasingly dependent on the American market for profits. Why? The Japanese market has been depressed since the early 1990s, primarily because of too much protectionism and certain Japanese business practices (banks have been unwilling to call in bad loans, which would force the debtor companies into bankruptcy, thus freeing the capital for other, more productive purposes). Which should refute the notion that those profits supposedly being funneled back to Japan are somehow making them rich and us poor. Sorry, but the Japanese would LOVE to have our economic growth rate and unemployment figures.
Guess what Toyota, Honda and Nissan are doing with more of their profits - investing them in design and engineering facilities right here in the good old U.S.A. Some people must have missed the stories about Toyota locating a brand-new engineering complex right in Michigan, which, the last time I checked, was part of the continental United States.
A car company that wants to have a major presence in a particular market must not only build cars in that market, but also design and engineer them there as well. That is why GM and Ford have self-contained subsidiaries in Europe, Australia and South America that design, engineer and build cars specifically tailored for those markets (as opposed to importing American-built cars). That is why Honda, Toyota and Nissan will do the same thing here.
If I recall correctly, the number of people employed in auto manufacturing in the United States has actually held steady over the past few years, or only declined slightly. Granted, the UNIONIZED sector is in trouble, while the transplant sector is doing quite well. (And why, exactly, do the transplants have an obligation to hire ex-UAW workers? Has the UAW been granted some sort of monopoly on all auto-related jobs within the United States? Based on what I've seen regarding the UAW in the papers and read on various message boards from actual members, the last person I'd hire would be a UAW member.)
Plus, I can't help but notice that we keep raising the bar for the Japanese. First, it was "if you sell it here, then build it here." Even Lee Iacocca echoed this line in the 1980s.
Now that they are "building them here," providing Americans with well-paying assembly jobs apparently isn't good enough. We want engineering and design jobs as well (and the transplants are now supposed to employ all out-of-work UAW members, too). Now that those jobs are coming here, we're all of a sudden worried that a dollar may be shipped out of the country to Japan (never mind that protectionist Japan is hardly a bastion of prosperity).
Incidentally, if you are upset about the loss of jobs in the supplier sector and the increased presence of GM, Ford and Chrysler in Mexico and China - a big culprit is the UAW. Why? With high labor costs, the domestics have to cut costs wherever possible. One way to do that is to outsource production to low-cost locales. That is why Ford is producing the Fusion in Mexico. At least this way the company can make a profit on the car, which in turn will enable it to revamp it sooner, and make it more competitive with the ever-improving Camry and Accord.
Out of all the major parties, the UAW is the one that has not made any major sacrifices. White-collar workers have experience pay freezes, benefit cuts and, in some cases, outright layoffs. Stockholders have seen the value of their investment plummet, and may be faced with a dividend reduction (or outright elimination of the dividend). Suppliers have been forced into bankruptcy. The UAW, meanwhile, maintains full pay and benefits, along with the Jobs Bank that pays laid-off workers 95 percent of take-home pay for doing nothing...all while the parent companies gush red ink.
Ideally I think what we would want is the $’s spent on the total creation of the car, American, to remain in the US, but I think it’s too hard to determine “where” an automobile was created.
Just using Ford as an example.
Where does the R&D take place? This is difficult to answer because Ford may not design all their parts, just pass on design requirements to other engineering companies.
Where are the parts are created? Who did the R&D for the parts?
What about the raw materials that are used in those parts? Does the leather have to come from an American cow?
So, if Ford hires a company to make an alternator, does that company have to be an American company what if that company has a sub-contractor or that company a sub-contractor. What if one of the sub-contractors is a global American company that has facilities throughout the world and a US citizen working, and living, over seas designed and created this fictional alternator was the alternator American made?
What if 100% of Ford’s sub contracts are non-American does it still make the vehicle American if it is designed and put together in the US?
I’m beginning to hurt my brain
My understanding is that a manufacturing plant just “plugs” the parts together. So if a Ford is designed in the US and the parts are designed AND created in the US does it matter if they just plug all the parts together in Mexico?
What portion, or percentage, of a vehicle’s total $’s does “putting it together” constitute? 10%-50%...don’t know.
Conversely, if Honda engineers and produces all their parts in Japan (I don’t think they do just making the argument), then plugs all the parts together in the US, it doesn’t seem like it’s doing us any favors; except giving us a few more factory positions.
Unlike others remarks telling laid off workers to swallow their pride and go work at McDonalds, I do feel for people who are loosing their income. What about the mortgage payment (and all the other huge bills coming into a household), benefits -- can’t tell your sick child to suck it up and go get a job. I don’t know about everybody else, but my current financial situation cannot withstand a 20-50% decrease in salary.
It would be nice if somebody, with a lot of time and much more intelligent than myself, could give a thorough analysis of where the $’s that constitute the price of the vehicle go not just “10% of the content is from Japan” .and what does the content on the window mean?
If it says 10% from Japan does it mean out of the total parts, 10% of the parts are from Japan? So if there are 100,000 parts to a car, does the engine count as 1 part? The transmission another part? 10% content from Japan really doesn’t mean much if the engine, transmission, chassis & suspension are in that 10%.
Under the AALA, every passenger vehicle manufactured after October 1, 1994 and sold in the United States must have a label indicating:
1) the percentage by value of equipment installed on the vehicle which originated in the United States and Canada1 combined,
2) the final assembly point of the vehicle,
3) the country of origin of the engine and transmission, and
4) the names of at least two of the countries accounting for the greatest percent of the value of the equipment installed on the vehicle when 15 percent or more of the value of the equipment installed originates in a country other than the United States and Canada...
...The content calculation used to determine U.S./Canadian origin employs a "parts only" approach. Labor costs incurred at the point of assembly, as well as advertising expenses, profits and interest payments are not included in the evaluation.
The original AALA specified that, for purposes of determining the U.S. or Canadian percentage of parts content, any equipment from outside suppliers that was at least 70 percent U.S. or Canadian was valued at 100 percent U.S./Canadian. Any equipment below 70 percent, even if only slightly below 70 percent, was valued at 0 percent. The NHTSA Reauthorization Act of 1998 amended the AALA to eliminate the "roll-down" portion of this provision. Any equipment under 70 percent is now valued to the nearest 5 percent.
Labor is the most expensive component that goes into assembly, so building a car with a few American/Canadian parts (30% of the parts value, such as is the case with the Ford Fusion) with Mexican labor effectively eliminates much involvement from Americans, aside from the R&D, dealer network, etc.
If a car is built in the US with American workers and a high percentage of US/Canadian content, as is a Toyota Camry, you can bet that does more to put money in the pockets of US blue collar laborer than does the Fusion built in another country.
1) The parts are shipped over from Japan so the percentage by value of equipment installed on the vehicle which originated in the United States is low, and Canada as has been so duly pointed out is not part of the US but a outside nation equivilent to Mexico.
2) If you have the parts anyone can put it together whether it be Canada, Mexico, or the US so the final assembly point of the vehicle gets few points except for the low skilled labor.
3) Japan is the country of origin of the engine and transmission, so all that profit goes overseas.
4) Japan, of course is predominant as the names of at least two of the countries accounting for the greatest percent of the value of the equipment installed on the vehicle when 15 percent or more of the value of the equipment installed originates in a country other than the United States and Canada...
5)The content calculation used to determine U.S./Canadian origin employs a "parts only" approach but we are looking for "American Made" so it is a main component of what makes a American car and these cars still have a high content made in Japan.
6) On Labor we have American workers assembling so this is a plus for jobs in the US.
7) For marketing, advertising expenses, profits and interest payments are also a factor, but the main profit and investment still goes back to Japan before these even show up on the ledger.
8) Ownership of the ships and the overseas shipping has traditionally been Japanese, so all that profit goes overseas.
So to rate these cars it would still come up as mostly Japanese but lets see if we have any experts with better data to update us.........
The parts are shipped over from Japan so the percentage by value of equipment installed on the vehicle which originated in the United States is low, and Canada as has been so duly pointed out is not part of the US but a outside nation equivilent to Mexico.
Read the link in #708. "US/Canadian content" is defined as the value of the parts. For the parts to labelled as US/Canadian, they have to come from the US or Canada.
If you have the parts anyone can put it together whether it be Canada, Mexico, or the US so the final assembly point of the vehicle gets few points except for the low skilled labor.
The cost of labor is the single most expensive aspect of car production, and creates incomes for the thousands of workers with jobs, plus tax payments to their governments. Why do you think GM and Ford are so busy trying to outsource US jobs?
Japan is the country of origin of the engine and transmission, so all that profit goes overseas.
Honda's largest engine plant is in Ohio. Its US engine production capacity is about 1.4 million units per year. And my favorite bit -- Honda makes motors for GM. So more untruths from you.
The content calculation used to determine U.S./Canadian origin employs a "parts only" approach but we are looking for "American Made" so it is a main component of what makes a American car and these cars still have a high content made in Japan.
Complete gibberish. The parts come from the US or Canada, which is why they are labelled as such. Read the content law -- the law does not allow firms to take foreign parts, assemble them in the US or Canada, and then call them US/Canadian. No matter how you slice it, there are more American/Canadian parts in a Camry or Accord than there are in a Fusion or a GTO.
Ownership of the ships and the overseas shipping has traditionally been Japanese, so all that profit goes overseas.
They are publicly owned companies. The profits that aren't reinvested into the business go to the owners of the company, who are the stockholders. Toyota and Honda are both listed on the NYSE -- you know, the one in New York.
At least Honda is building new facilities in the US, that will employ more Americans. You can't say that about either Ford or GM.
The only way to come up with a determination, as I said in the very beggining, is to look at the company, the jobs it creates, where the majority of the moneys go, and the amount of business and investment that stays in the US, then maybe break down the actual car if feasible. That is the best way to come up with what makes a "American Car" and as you can see the break down the actual car is useless without the actual data for the individual cars the company makes. Having it for one car for Ford doesnt cut it, having it for a catagory such as Mid-Size would be good, and having it for the overall cars a company makes would be the ideal....... :shades:
What a crock. You honestly don't know what you're talking about.
The blind leading the blind...... :sick:
You don't think that knowing the origin of the parts and the point of assembly is enough information? You must be kidding.
When you go to buy "Made in America" what you ar looking for are the products from companies that will put the most money in American workers pockets at the Investment, R&D, parts manufacturing, transportation, marketing, and sales, etc.....
False yet again. Most of the money ends up being paid out in expenses -- parts, labor, transportation, taxes. And a large proportion of those costs related to an Accord or Camry with 70% US/Canadian content is being paid to Americans. Compare that to your friends in Dearborn and Detroit, who'd rather give the money to Mexicans.
Let's face it -- you don't like these companies, no matter how many US taxes they pay or Americans they employ, because they are Asians who don't look like you. You have zero qualms about paying the money to the Germans who manage Chrysler, but you get all prickly when a guy who speaks Japanese does the very same thing.
OK you asked for the facts: step-by-step
1) The parts are shipped over from Japan so the percentage by value of equipment installed on the vehicle which originated in the United States is low, and Canada as has been so duly pointed out is not part of the US but a outside nation equivilent to Mexico.
This is false. The parts are not shipped over from Japan. The label on a KY-made Camry reads 80% of parts are US/Canadian. 20% are from Japan. This is parts only it does not include labor or assembly, which is obviously 100% American.
2) If you have the parts anyone can put it together whether it be Canada, Mexico, or the US so the final assembly point of the vehicle gets few points except for the low skilled labor.
see above comment.
3) Japan is the country of origin of the engine and transmission, so all that profit goes overseas.
This is false. The engine is 100% American made in W. Virginia or Alabama depending.
4) Japan, of course is predominant as the names of at least two of the countries accounting for the greatest percent of the value of the equipment installed on the vehicle when 15 percent or more of the value of the equipment installed originates in a country other than the United States and Canada...
5)The content calculation used to determine U.S./Canadian origin employs a "parts only" approach but we are looking for "American Made" so it is a main component of what makes a American car and these cars still have a high content made in Japan.
80% US is "American made" parts so the the vehicle is predominantly American.
6) On Labor we have American workers assembling so this is a plus for jobs in the US.
7) For marketing, advertising expenses, profits and interest payments are also a factor, but the main profit and investment still goes back to Japan before these even show up on the ledger.
This is not true. Expenses are always deducted before profit is calculated. Basic Accounting. False premise.
8) Ownership of the ships and the overseas shipping has traditionally been Japanese, so all that profit goes overseas.
This is true. But it only applies to the Transmission, which is made in Japan. minor, minor expense this transport.
So to rate these cars it would still come up as mostly Japanese but lets see if we have any experts with better data to update us.........
As you can see most of your suppostions are incorrect. I'm reading off the label on a brand new Camry. This has 80% of it's parts made here and 100% of the Assembly, Marketing, Sales, Distribution. This effectively pushes the total content well into the 90%+ range.
For my trucks I get buller-proof Toyota's (I have 3 at the moment), yet somehow your twisted to the point that you state I don't like these "Asian" companies, specifically the Japanese. You need a complete medical to see how you come up with this rationalizations...
Now, for a Honda/Acura man such as I to come in and say we need to support American products and companies shows I have no other motive except to help American jobs, and American business's and investment.
Still haven't told us why you believe that the German-owned Chrysler is an "American" business, while cars designed and built in the US with US/Canadian parts with Japanese nameplates are "foreign."
I've met people outside the US who can tell me that they don't like the US as they nosh on Big Macs and Cokes while listening to Madonna and planning their vacations to Florida. You seem to have a similar relationship with the Japanese.
Also, I find it interesting that the % of domestic content on the label only has to do with the value of the parts and DOESN'T take into account the value of the final assembly. For some reason, I was under the impression that the % indicated the total value of the cars (parts AND assembly).
NOTE: Parts content does not include final assembly, distribution or non-parts costs.
Therefore 80% is just the parts as they sit there in a pile.
Well, that's fine and dandy, but it's been a while since I:
1) was in a dealership shopping for a car
2) paid any attention to the label since the % of domestic content hasn't entered into my decision making process since......?
Still trying to find an on-line resource which lists domestic parts content. Don't relish the idea of having to visit all those dealerships reading labels.....