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EXACTLY what I had in mind, Marsha......
I sat in it, and am impressed with the interior. One of the reasons that I didn't buy a Cadillac CTS was the lack of headroom in the back seat. The MKS is much larger and roomier. However, I didn't bother driving the car. I would rather wait for the Eco-boost engine. I have been spoiled by powerful V-8 autos for too long...
I am also looking forward to seeing the Genesis, another generic looking big car.
BTW, my Lincoln-Mercury dealership looks like it hasn't been remodeled since 1970. It has less atmosphere than the waiting room at the free clinic. It's no wonder that rich mature folks are driving imports.
Another Autoblog Review
It seems that Autoblog is very taken by the Lincoln MKS. Also, I've noticed that allot of other magazines are as well. But the thing about the Article is read some of the comments that the people make after the review. Also, the biggest surprise so far is Motortrend. They are the most Anti-Ford magazine that I've ever seen. And they like it as well.
Motortrend
Well then again I shouldn't get to excited because their Anti-Ford king Angus Mckenzie hasn't had a chance to
pisshate andDamnover-insult the 2009 MKS yet. Remember, Angus Mckenzie was the one the call the MKS "The wrong car."So, does anybody here think there is any hope at all for the MKS for Motortrend car of the year ?
Yes/No ?
I don't think it stands out enough in any area except techno-goodies. I also don't think it matters one iota.
Ford has been its own worst enemy in terms of product decisions for many years. They rode a wave of success in the late 1990s, and then threw it away by forgetting that their success was based on new products. Mullaly has come along late in the game and at a point where all companies are scrambling to get out the products people really want to buy.
Ford has allowed so many good sellers to sink either through total neglect (Ranger, Crown Vic, Town Car, Taurus) or timid, tepid re-dos (Explorer, Expedition, Taurus). The MKS is a step in the right direction, because it is not merely a Taurus with different trim. But all Mercurys are still Fords with slight trim variations, and the MKX is an Edge and the MKZ is a Fusion with upgraded trim and a better engine. Lincoln deserves better. The present management is well aware of these mistakes. The question is can Ford survive independently long enough until models like the Fiesta, new world Focus, MKR, Explorer replacement, etc. can be available? And will the targets have moved once again by then?
Ford needs to get beyond trying to meet the competition, and instead leapfrog it, like they did with the original Mustang, the original Taurus, the first Explorer, the 97 F150, the original Navigator. It will be interesting to see if the Flex can get a special buzz going among those who buy people movers.
Exactly! Ford has the unique history of being a market leader, followed by a decade of neglect over and over again.
In my early years living in Detroit, 1980, 81, 82, there was a guy who said to me that he would never own a Ford Maverick because they were junk, but the quality of a Mercury (their version) was a sight to behold...remember, this was soemone who was from Detroit, and he thought the two cars were radically different...not only were they made side by side, but change the taillights and dashboard, and they were identical...
NEVER underestimate the stupidity of the American public...
And, since that is/was the rule for cars, THAT is why I blame the UAW much more than management...while Mgmt designs the cars, the UAW makes them...and a car made poorly on a Mon or Fri is not a mgmt problem, it is solely a labor problem...the assemblers can and do make more screwups, as they have done over 30 years...
I only hope that with the MKS (and Taurus/Sable) Ford realizes that they are fighting for their life, and a poorly made car means Ford is history...we simply will not tolerate mediocrity anymore, when there is good stuff to be had...
"NEVER underestimate the stupidity of the American public... "
I don't agree with those comments, your talking about back in the 80's. The market and the world is very different. The internet and the car market are being driven by the "Millenias." That's important because that is the demographic Lincoln is aiming for with the MKS and there future products. That is one of the reasons why I'm so annoyed with Edmunds and Motortrend.
The main stream media has done such a great job of ramming down the "Millenias" throats of the mentality "Don't buy an American car because American cars are junk. The look real good and go real fast and they do all these cute little wonderful things. But once the American car hits that 1,000 mile warranty they are going to fall apart." "Buy Imports, Imports are God and they run Forever." Too me I can tell that the "professional unbias reporting" media believes that crap as well. For example. BMW and Mini have some of the lowest quality scores as brands when it comes to quality. European cars have been that way for years. I think Mercedes Benz is the only mass production european brand that's in the top 10. Porsche doesn't could to me because Ford is probably going to sell more of the 2008 North American Focus than all of Porsche world wide. Yet Edmunds or Motortrend never slam the europeans for there poor quality. But, when it comes to an American car especially Ford. Oh come on Ford, you need to try harder !!!!!!!!!! and yet Ford is #8 in the world of quality. Edmunds and Motortrend shovel us that Media BS oh we know you can do better. Really Edmunds and Motortrend, Do you really think they can do better. Or are you just being the "High school Bully" hiding behind BS.
Based off what you've been saying and doing Motortrend and Edmunds your not being very constant. Plus the fact, It's not going to help the situation if the "Millenias" log onto the internet and read from some of the biggest car magazines "The 2009 MKS is the Wrong car" or "The 2009 MKS is just a dressed up Taurus with a bigger Lincoln engine" and the "Millenias" didn't want to buy the car in the first place.
Fords biggest problem is not it's product, Fords biggest problem is public opinion. I don't see how these two huge car magazines are helping the situation at all. Think of it like this. Ford was a very bad professional football team in the NFL for years. They have been losing for years. This year for the first time in many many years they are having a winning season and have made the wild card playoffs. Instead of the media say "Wow Ford, you really have turned the corner you need to work on a couple of things and you could be an awesome team." instead the media is saying to America "Oh come on Ford, you need to try harder your still 15-25 years behind the competition. Even with gas being $4-5.00/gallon the MKS needs to be a 500000 HP rear wheel drive car. In order for it to be a "proper" flagship. Not a dressed up nicely done Taurus" Now, does the media really think they can do better or are they being the "High school bully" I think the high school bully. One last thing, if you are a football fan that has no interest in this team. How is that latter mentality going to change your opinion of that team? Simple, none.
Sorry for the rant but I had to get that off my chest. :sick:
Mercedes has been slammed in the press for poor quality and high repair costs. Porsches are criticized for being overpriced and expensive to repair as well. I think you only attend to "evidence" that supports your view, and you discount evidence to the contrary. Regardless, Ford is in a life-death struggle now, because of poor decisions made years ago when they were sitting on top. Time will tell if they can right things in time.
Just say the improvements and have customers verify it (a few high profile ones would not hurt).
For one who has had Fords for more than 20 years, I believe they are America’s best-kept secret that should not be that way. Ford has an image problem and much of it was and still is it’s own fault. I will say it looks like they are beginning to wake up and smell the coffee. Sometimes it feels good to travel long distance to see the family, pull up in a vehicle that was less expensive, cheaper to operate, and look just as good if not better than the other vehicles my family members have. I for one like the MKS just as it is. I do not care which side of the filler is on the vehicle. If I cannot remember then I will look at the gas gauge for the arrow that tells me which side the filler is on. (Ahh, I can here some of you now, “Ohh, so that is what that arrow is for”).
All in all Ford has gotten a bum rap, but I did not see too much in defending itself when the rumors took hold. I for one cannot wait till my MKS arrives even though I ordered it back in February. If I hate one thing about the vehicle is the way they advertised it. Don’t get me wrong the TV ads were great, but don’t show me something and then tell me I can’t get it they way you have shown it to me till much later. It is a slap across the face. :shades:
What is your opinion about the ride quality - compliance over bumps and broken pavement? Firm? Soft? Just right?
Looking good requires sacrifice. Big wheel shoppers give up ride quality for the looks. A rough ride is not the only annoyance; big rims can also significantly degrade performance and safety. Anything that adds weight to the wheel and tire assembly affects acceleration and braking, and it can hurts handling as well. It's not uncommon to gain 40 pounds when swapping a 16" wheel out for a 20". If you increase unsprung weight, it will decrease wheel control. Putting big wheels and tires on a vehicle that wasn't designed for it can result in traction loss traveling at speed. As you increase rotating mass, it's also harder for brakes to stop the wheel from spinning. This can decrease brake life. Acceleration can also be negatively affected.
In sum, there is a big, big difference between setting a car up for 18s or 20s. The 20s are fashion and looks only. Like high heels, which give a great look to the leg but kill the feet. Too bad there isn't a 16 or 17 inch comfort option as wellas the 18s. However, the 18 option is engineered for comfort. Try it.
So, if you've had a Focus or Taurus, you may not have been very impressed, and you never forget it. But if you hate Fords, you just haven't had a Ford Truck.
Anyway, that's how I see it. YMMV, but if Ford could build cars like they do trucks, and still sell them at a competitive price, life would be good for them.
FWIW, IMO, GM doesn't really do either that well...... I think people who love GM just aren't used to quality and haven't tried much else yet.
No matter what tire choice, I think the MKS suspension is tuned for more control and handling capability than a Taurus or other mainstream family sedan. That seems appropriate in view of the competition.
It is funny how different people can have different impressions of the ride quality, torque steer, etc. No car will be perfect for everyone. Akirby made a good point a while back - When you buy a new firmer mattress, at first is seems strange. After getting used to it, you wonder how you ever slept on that squishy thing you had before.
$45,175.00 MSRP including $800.00 delivery
Tires: Goodyear Eagle RS-A P255/45R19 100V
19” wheels
Pros:
Handling; light steering; materials; workmanship; navigation system; audio system; beautiful wood and very supple leather; minimal side blind spots; rearview camera; very few interior hard plastic pieces; smooth shifting transaxle; low engine noise except under hard acceleration (sounds like a V-6 and there's no mistaking the sound for a V-8); some torque steer under hard acceleration, but the steering wheel snaps back as if the stability control system takes control; charges an MP3 player when connected to the USB port.
Cons:
Harsh ride (probably will dissuade some or even many current Lincoln owners from buying the car); some road noise; significant engine & a/c compressor vibration at idle felt mostly through the steering wheel (minimal transmission through dash top, pedals, and shift lever); tinny sounding door handles; small trunk opening; steering wheel too constricted in both tilt and telescope; feel of top of steering wheel at seam of wood & leather; speedometer view blocked at low steering wheel positions; no turn signal arrows in outside mirrors; no folding rear seat backs; some interior pieces in black when they should be the same color as the interior; needs more wood accents inside; Jukebox cannot record homemade MP3 discs to the car’s hard drive.
Part of the problem may be that the one I drove earlier had about 3000 miles on it while the one I drove today only had 43 miles on it. The one I just drove seemed pretty lethargic. More engine noise than acceleration. The 6 speed transmission really helps low speed acceleration but higher speed acceleration is not impressive, IMO. As kenb757 noted, I felt more vibration through the steering wheel at idle with the AC on than I expected. Maybe the stiffer structure promotes that because our Taurus is vibration-free. Perhaps a few thousand miles of break-in would improve the performance and smoothness. The one I drove at the preview was quicker and smoother and even sounded better.
The Ultimate has the 19" Eagle RS-A's and I was fine with the ride quality. I was not so fine with the tire noise on concrete roads. I drove my LS over the same road after getting out of the MKS and my LS was noticeably quieter. I put Goodyear Comfortreds on my LS a few months back and they are superbly quiet - better than the Michelins I had before and 1000% quieter than the original Firestones. I plan to drive an MKS with the 18s when the dealer gets one.
Overall, I sure wouldn't pay sticker for an MKS. It certainly has the technology part nailed but once some of the novelty wears off that, I can't say that the car has any real features/benefits that justify the price. I envision some incentives within a few months.
Did u read the TTAC take on the car? The reviewer nicknamed the transmission "Sucko the Clown" for the poor way it handled power delivery or lack thereof.
Your opinion here bodes true ill fro this car, you being one of it's major fans up til now. Makes one really wonder what the 2 Lincoln engineers have been doing for 3 or 4 years since the 500/Montego came out.
I know u dont like it, but I wonder how you'd rate a test drive in the S80 now, with both MKSes under your belt? Just to see what Volvo did to improve the platform.
Er - and what about the Jag XF? Only a few thou more than the ultimate S. And it has a V8!
Yes, the Jag XF is really closer to being my cup of tea. Too bad Ford said Ta-ta to Jag, IMO. I haven't given up on the MKS quite yet, though. I think it will take the Ecoboost to really make it stand out and be unique but who knows when that will be available.
"Most newer automatic transmission vehicles are saddled with a lackadaisical shift response when set in normal Drive mode, undoubtedly calibrated to optimize the EPA mileage numbers. Thankfully, popping the shift lever in Sport mode has a dramatic effect. Shifts are sharper, although still smooth, occurring at higher revs with downshifts occurring promptly with a stab of the go pedal."
brucelinc, did you try it much in sport mode?
And if price was no object, I would definately take the Jag too, but as Salazzo said to Don Corleone "If you consider 10,000 merely financing, te salute, jeyhoe"
The mks ultimate prices at mid-hi 40s doesnt it? While the Jag starts at 49? ecoBoost will probably boost the price of the S Ultimate into the 50s I would think.
Yes, I did and I also shifted it manually. I really have no complaints about the transmission. It is very smooth and it shifts quickly. In the manual mode, when you downshift, it automatically raises the engine speed to make it smooth. I was not quite so impressed with the so called "sport" mode. It almost holds the lower gears too long, in my opinion. It also downshifts if you apply the brakes and that seemed unnecessary in many cases. The manumatic feature works very nicely, although if the computer thinks you are going too slow for the chosen gear, it will automatically downshift.
Ford V6s seem to need quite a few break-in miles before they perform well. It seemed that the slightest acceleration would cause a downshift in the car I drove today. It was very smooth and I don't fault the transmission so much as the lack of engine performance. When our Taurus was new, it acted similarly. Now with 8000 miles, it runs a lot better and pulls better in the higher gears without downshifting so often.