Are you a current Michigan-based car shopper? A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/2 for details.
I still want to know who buys a 203" car expecting it to handle like a sports car, unless you're buying a 750iL and that is going to cost you $80-90K. With all wheel drive this car should handle fine under >90% of conditions for >90% of the people. For all intents and purposes, the MKS will be exactly what Lincoln is hoping for. It is not a home run, but they did not swing for the fences. Maybe when the ecoboost comes out there will be further enhancements/refinements to handling and overall packaging that will bring the car uplevel a bit more. The Audi A8 is an excellent car that happens to be FWD-biased AWD. We probably should not expect any version of the MKS to approach the quality of the A8, but Lincoln could get close enough to make justifying the additional $30-40K a hard sell.
They had one MKS, equipped with the Ultimate package.
I sat in it, and am impressed with the interior. One of the reasons that I didn't buy a Cadillac CTS was the lack of headroom in the back seat. The MKS is much larger and roomier. However, I didn't bother driving the car. I would rather wait for the Eco-boost engine. I have been spoiled by powerful V-8 autos for too long...
I am also looking forward to seeing the Genesis, another generic looking big car.
BTW, my Lincoln-Mercury dealership looks like it hasn't been remodeled since 1970. It has less atmosphere than the waiting room at the free clinic. It's no wonder that rich mature folks are driving imports.
Does anyone have pricing terms yet? I've been offered the MKS w/ultimate package at ~$43.5k. Leasing terms 1.5 money factor and 53% residual. Money factor seems high to me.
It seems that Autoblog is very taken by the Lincoln MKS. Also, I've noticed that allot of other magazines are as well. But the thing about the Article is read some of the comments that the people make after the review. Also, the biggest surprise so far is Motortrend. They are the most Anti-Ford magazine that I've ever seen. And they like it as well.
Well then again I shouldn't get to excited because their Anti-Ford king Angus Mckenzie hasn't had a chance to piss hate and Damn over-insult the 2009 MKS yet. Remember, Angus Mckenzie was the one the call the MKS "The wrong car."
So, does anybody here think there is any hope at all for the MKS for Motortrend car of the year ?
I suspect not, and not merely because of any anti-Ford bias. The MKS is definitely competitive in its segment, but it is not the home run that will put Lincoln back on most people's luxury shopping list. Plus, it will have to go up against a lot of other new 2009 models in different segments, e.g., the new Audi A4, the Nissan Maxima, the Hyundai Genesis, the Mazda6, Volkswagen CC, Acura TSX, Jaguar XF, Pontiac Vibe, Corolla. The MKS is a better Taurus (itself a good car) all around, and not nearly as dowdy. Fortunately, other than the CC and Mazda6, most of the other contenders also have understated-to-nearly-bland lines.
Of the cars listed, the only other I'd consider for Car of the Year besides the MKS is the XF. But then again MT did make the Chevy Citation its Car of the Year during a mentally challenging time in U.S. history. Just look at who's in the White House; nothing should surprise anyone anymore.
The XF, new Maxima, Genesis, and new Mazda6 are all likely to garner at least as many points if not more than the MKS. Remember, the cars are not judged directly against one another (though the Genesis, MKS and XF likely will be), but also on how they perform in their own segments. The Genesis and XF could get a nod over the MKS, given they both offer V8s and rear wheel drive. The MKS would win on room and bulk.
I put that question out there just to see what everybody thought. Personally, I'm not holding my breath. Motortrend is an awful magazine. To that, Motortrend and Edmunds are so anti-Ford till it hurts. On more than one occasion they have openly verbalized their hatred for Ford and they both love to dog the living Hell out of Ford. Motortrend and Edmunds do not have any respect for Ford or really any domestic brand to be honest. Motortrend and Edmunds thinks nothing of Ford at all and it's not going to change anytime soon. I'll bet any amount of money the MKS is going to lose every comparison test Edmunds and Motortrene puts it in. If Imy be so arrogant and put words in Motortrend and Edmunds mouth. Motortrend and Edmunds wants Ford to shamelessly copy Mercedes and BMW and put a Lincoln star on the front. Like Americans are to stupid to realize were the design came from. So, instead of Ford just being in trouble. Ford would also be the laughing stock as well as in trouble if they followed Motortrends and Edmunds formula. There that's all I have to say.
I guess we are all entitled to our opinions. I don't see any particular anti-Ford bias in either Motor Trend or Edmunds. I could be wrong, but it seems they call 'em like they see 'em regardless of brand.
Ford has been its own worst enemy in terms of product decisions for many years. They rode a wave of success in the late 1990s, and then threw it away by forgetting that their success was based on new products. Mullaly has come along late in the game and at a point where all companies are scrambling to get out the products people really want to buy.
Ford has allowed so many good sellers to sink either through total neglect (Ranger, Crown Vic, Town Car, Taurus) or timid, tepid re-dos (Explorer, Expedition, Taurus). The MKS is a step in the right direction, because it is not merely a Taurus with different trim. But all Mercurys are still Fords with slight trim variations, and the MKX is an Edge and the MKZ is a Fusion with upgraded trim and a better engine. Lincoln deserves better. The present management is well aware of these mistakes. The question is can Ford survive independently long enough until models like the Fiesta, new world Focus, MKR, Explorer replacement, etc. can be available? And will the targets have moved once again by then?
Ford needs to get beyond trying to meet the competition, and instead leapfrog it, like they did with the original Mustang, the original Taurus, the first Explorer, the 97 F150, the original Navigator. It will be interesting to see if the Flex can get a special buzz going among those who buy people movers.
Ford needs to get beyond trying to meet the competition, and instead leapfrog it, like they did with the original Mustang, the original Taurus, the first Explorer, the 97 F150, the original Navigator. It will be interesting to see if the Flex can get a special buzz going among those who buy people movers.
Exactly! Ford has the unique history of being a market leader, followed by a decade of neglect over and over again.
The Maxima won't win any points for refinement but the Genesis might gain some points if the Hyundai dealer network can overcome the carnival mark buying an Accent mentality.
"Like Americans are to stupid to realize were the design came from"...I believe too many ofthem are too stupid...
In my early years living in Detroit, 1980, 81, 82, there was a guy who said to me that he would never own a Ford Maverick because they were junk, but the quality of a Mercury (their version) was a sight to behold...remember, this was soemone who was from Detroit, and he thought the two cars were radically different...not only were they made side by side, but change the taillights and dashboard, and they were identical...
NEVER underestimate the stupidity of the American public...
Americans are not stupid - they buy best product available on market. BTW I also have impression that Mercury cars have higher quality than Ford analogs even though I know petty well that they are identical and made on the same line. The only difference is that Mercuries are made Tue, Wen and Thur.
Well, you do have a point...never buy a car on Monday or a Friday, Friday because the UAW are all out getting drunk or Monday because they all have hangovers...
And, since that is/was the rule for cars, THAT is why I blame the UAW much more than management...while Mgmt designs the cars, the UAW makes them...and a car made poorly on a Mon or Fri is not a mgmt problem, it is solely a labor problem...the assemblers can and do make more screwups, as they have done over 30 years...
I only hope that with the MKS (and Taurus/Sable) Ford realizes that they are fighting for their life, and a poorly made car means Ford is history...we simply will not tolerate mediocrity anymore, when there is good stuff to be had...
"...I believe too many of them are too stupid... " "NEVER underestimate the stupidity of the American public... "
I don't agree with those comments, your talking about back in the 80's. The market and the world is very different. The internet and the car market are being driven by the "Millenias." That's important because that is the demographic Lincoln is aiming for with the MKS and there future products. That is one of the reasons why I'm so annoyed with Edmunds and Motortrend.
The main stream media has done such a great job of ramming down the "Millenias" throats of the mentality "Don't buy an American car because American cars are junk. The look real good and go real fast and they do all these cute little wonderful things. But once the American car hits that 1,000 mile warranty they are going to fall apart." "Buy Imports, Imports are God and they run Forever." Too me I can tell that the "professional unbias reporting" media believes that crap as well. For example. BMW and Mini have some of the lowest quality scores as brands when it comes to quality. European cars have been that way for years. I think Mercedes Benz is the only mass production european brand that's in the top 10. Porsche doesn't could to me because Ford is probably going to sell more of the 2008 North American Focus than all of Porsche world wide. Yet Edmunds or Motortrend never slam the europeans for there poor quality. But, when it comes to an American car especially Ford. Oh come on Ford, you need to try harder !!!!!!!!!! and yet Ford is #8 in the world of quality. Edmunds and Motortrend shovel us that Media BS oh we know you can do better. Really Edmunds and Motortrend, Do you really think they can do better. Or are you just being the "High school Bully" hiding behind BS.
Based off what you've been saying and doing Motortrend and Edmunds your not being very constant. Plus the fact, It's not going to help the situation if the "Millenias" log onto the internet and read from some of the biggest car magazines "The 2009 MKS is the Wrong car" or "The 2009 MKS is just a dressed up Taurus with a bigger Lincoln engine" and the "Millenias" didn't want to buy the car in the first place.
Fords biggest problem is not it's product, Fords biggest problem is public opinion. I don't see how these two huge car magazines are helping the situation at all. Think of it like this. Ford was a very bad professional football team in the NFL for years. They have been losing for years. This year for the first time in many many years they are having a winning season and have made the wild card playoffs. Instead of the media say "Wow Ford, you really have turned the corner you need to work on a couple of things and you could be an awesome team." instead the media is saying to America "Oh come on Ford, you need to try harder your still 15-25 years behind the competition. Even with gas being $4-5.00/gallon the MKS needs to be a 500000 HP rear wheel drive car. In order for it to be a "proper" flagship. Not a dressed up nicely done Taurus" Now, does the media really think they can do better or are they being the "High school bully" I think the high school bully. One last thing, if you are a football fan that has no interest in this team. How is that latter mentality going to change your opinion of that team? Simple, none.
Sorry for the rant but I had to get that off my chest. :sick:
I don't agree. First of all, Ford made its own bed. It has had COTY winners before and it could do so again. Their quality is improving rapidly.
Mercedes has been slammed in the press for poor quality and high repair costs. Porsches are criticized for being overpriced and expensive to repair as well. I think you only attend to "evidence" that supports your view, and you discount evidence to the contrary. Regardless, Ford is in a life-death struggle now, because of poor decisions made years ago when they were sitting on top. Time will tell if they can right things in time.
There is no "right" or "wrong" side. I've had both and it makes no difference other than remembering which side to pull in on. But if that's all you can find to complain about, that's a good sign.
Let me throw my two cents in this discussion. First I will agree that Ford has great products. I will also agree that Ford has shot itself in the foot at times. In some of their advertisement Ford says their quality is as good as Toyotas. Why in the world would you say that? You have put yourself in behind a competitor no matter how you slice and dice it. For a customer looking at this message, they would say I will get the Toy. Their standards are established; Ford seems to be playing catch-up.
Just say the improvements and have customers verify it (a few high profile ones would not hurt).
For one who has had Fords for more than 20 years, I believe they are America’s best-kept secret that should not be that way. Ford has an image problem and much of it was and still is it’s own fault. I will say it looks like they are beginning to wake up and smell the coffee. Sometimes it feels good to travel long distance to see the family, pull up in a vehicle that was less expensive, cheaper to operate, and look just as good if not better than the other vehicles my family members have. I for one like the MKS just as it is. I do not care which side of the filler is on the vehicle. If I cannot remember then I will look at the gas gauge for the arrow that tells me which side the filler is on. (Ahh, I can here some of you now, “Ohh, so that is what that arrow is for”).
All in all Ford has gotten a bum rap, but I did not see too much in defending itself when the rumors took hold. I for one cannot wait till my MKS arrives even though I ordered it back in February. If I hate one thing about the vehicle is the way they advertised it. Don’t get me wrong the TV ads were great, but don’t show me something and then tell me I can’t get it they way you have shown it to me till much later. It is a slap across the face. :shades:
Everybody knows (or thinks) that Toyota has the best quality, while a lot of people still think Ford does not. In this case I think saying that Ford quality is equal to Toyota is a great move (just the fact that they can say it is great). Anyone who is sold on Toyota already won't care, but those who are open-minded will at least look at a Ford which is a big step up. I don't see anyone being driven to Toyota by those ads.
July 5th I was able to make it to the nearest lincoln dealership to test drive an mks. I had been looking at buying an mkx but wanted to wait to try out an mks. I pretty much put the car through the wringer so to speak. This was a black fwd with black interior with ultimate package. It had everything but the adaptive cruise control and had it have that option it would be sitting in my driveway. First performance, it does not need a v8 the 3.7 has plenty of power. starting from a dead stop on freeway ramp 0 to 100mph was a breeze. Car pulled strong all the way to 100 were I let off the gas and this was with no noticeable torque steer. At 100 car was stable solid and quite. Slowing to 45 and wide open to 90 produced plenty of passing power. Leaving interstate and driving a more rural road with some nice twist and turns car handled very well for a luxury car. In town driving making right turn in trafic wide open to about 45 produced enough wheel spin where I had to lift throttle to straighten car up. Second ride, The front buckets felt very good . I had plenty of head leg and hip room. The seats are 12 way adjustable and felt good to my back. Rear seat room was very good , seats felt good but was a little soft to my liking. Quality of material was very good as was fit and finish. The wife thought the sliding cover on console cup holder was a little cheap looking but I had no problem with it.I liked the dual moon roof which gives both front and back seat passengers a good view out. The rear view camera was a nice option with the navigation system put car in reverse and navigation screen becomes a tv screen showing every thing behind you with the cars projection highlighted by two red lines letting you know how close you are to other objects. I had no problem backing between two parked cars using the camera. In addition the car has front sensors and rear sensors that beep when objects are near. The sirius navigation system and screen is much nicer and clearer than the one in my 08 superduty and the stereo system sounded great. I was not able to check out the sync system using a mobile phone but that is a main reason I want to stay with ford products since my wife is a relator and lives on her phone this will be her car. This car has a lot of features for the money , a lot more than my 08 superduty diesel and a sticker 9 thousand dollars less. My opion is Lincoln has hit a home run and as soon as I can order one with adaptive cruise control one will sit in my driveway. BTW the car I'm trading is an 04 hyundai xg350l which was the top of line hyundai in o4 sticker 28 thousand. With 115000 miles trade in value is 4500 dollars . An 04 lincoln LS with 115000 miles trade in value is over 8000 dollars so down the road I believe the lincoln will be the better value than some of the competion.
Thanks for your insight. Based on my short drive, I agree with your comments about the performance. It was better than I expected for a 3.7 V6. It might feel lacking if driven back to back with a really quick car but it is certainly no slouch.
What is your opinion about the ride quality - compliance over bumps and broken pavement? Firm? Soft? Just right?
Just finishing a three day test drive of an MKS ultimate. Will post a longer report later. As to ride quality, it's the only deal breaker for me. The car is much too harsh over bumps to the point where I think many current Lincoln owners (especially those coming from a Town Car) will drop the MKS from consideration because of it. Had an '06 Q45s that I thought had a harsh ride and the MKS is significantly more bone jarring than the Q. Think more of the ride of the Infiniti G35 or Audi A6. The smaller wheeled base models might have a slightly more compliant ride, but wheels/tires aren't going to make that big a difference. But, to each his own. What do you think Diehardford?
Wheels and tires make a HUGE difference. Dubs are for LOOKS. Want to ride in something that feels like a lumber wagon? Try a Town Car with 20"ers or 22"ers. I guarantee you that unless Lincoln has offered the option after considerable engineering, the TC ride with 20"ers will be harsher than the one the MKS has.
Looking good requires sacrifice. Big wheel shoppers give up ride quality for the looks. A rough ride is not the only annoyance; big rims can also significantly degrade performance and safety. Anything that adds weight to the wheel and tire assembly affects acceleration and braking, and it can hurts handling as well. It's not uncommon to gain 40 pounds when swapping a 16" wheel out for a 20". If you increase unsprung weight, it will decrease wheel control. Putting big wheels and tires on a vehicle that wasn't designed for it can result in traction loss traveling at speed. As you increase rotating mass, it's also harder for brakes to stop the wheel from spinning. This can decrease brake life. Acceleration can also be negatively affected.
In sum, there is a big, big difference between setting a car up for 18s or 20s. The 20s are fashion and looks only. Like high heels, which give a great look to the leg but kill the feet. Too bad there isn't a 16 or 17 inch comfort option as wellas the 18s. However, the 18 option is engineered for comfort. Try it.
I generally agree with your assessment datagen. I think where Ford has hurt themselves through the ages, is with CERTAIN cars..... Where trucks are concerned, I think Ford is the undisputed heavyweight champ. I've had 7 Explorers, and they were all good, and most were fabulous. I've had many Tauri, most of which were good early on, but not great long term. Foci are not bad mechanically, but are such abominable tin cans compared to anything Japanese, I would not buy them. I have had several Escapes - again, they are solid, and don't quit, but are pretty unrefined and tinny. As with most Ford Trucks though, they have a superior design to the Toyota or Honda, but more NVH.
So, if you've had a Focus or Taurus, you may not have been very impressed, and you never forget it. But if you hate Fords, you just haven't had a Ford Truck.
Anyway, that's how I see it. YMMV, but if Ford could build cars like they do trucks, and still sell them at a competitive price, life would be good for them.
FWIW, IMO, GM doesn't really do either that well...... I think people who love GM just aren't used to quality and haven't tried much else yet.
Not only do the 18s have more sidewall to absorb road shock, but they also use a tire specifically designed for ride compliance. My understanding is that "H" speed rated Goodyear Comfortred tires are standard with the 18s. The 19s are a higher performance "V" speed rated Goodyear Eagle. That difference in tire construction/tire mission is significant, regardless of size.
No matter what tire choice, I think the MKS suspension is tuned for more control and handling capability than a Taurus or other mainstream family sedan. That seems appropriate in view of the competition.
I still think you're going to see Lincoln scrambling to recalibrate the suspension settings once they realize current Lincoln owners are turned off by the ride.
Try the 18" Comfortred. You'll see. If you are looking for smooth ride, big wheels just won't give you that. Your best bet would be to get aftermarket 17" wheels and tires rated for comfort. That is what the Town Car comes with. 19" wheels are significantly heavier than 17" wheels and the tire sidewalls correspndingly more stiff.
You don't seem to understand that 19 and 20 inch wheels do adversely affect, by themselves, the type of ride you are looking for. Lincoln has already tweaked the suspension about all it can for such big wheels, and have smoothed it out considerably already. There is only so much you can do with such ridiculously big wheels. (And why would you want to pay for 19" or 20' replacement tires?)
To me the ride quality was very good. The car I drove had the 19 inch rims. However my day to day ride is a 08 F250 diesel 4x4 crew cab lariat. A very nice truck but on a bumpy road you know your on a bumpy road. So the lincoln wins hands down on ride quality. Next to the Hyundai the lincoln is still much better in the way it handles and ride quality; so to me its just right. However my just right might be a little firm for some one else. personally I have not driven an audi so it would not be fair me to make a comparison between the two. This Lincoln is a lot of what i'm looking for , not to big, not to small, decent mileage , hands free phone and navigation for the wife and a price I can live with. You can always find car a that might be a bit faster or car b that might handle better or car c that might ride softer or firm er its the total package, features and price that sells me on this car.
I just took an MKS for a test drive both the awd and standard front wheel drive system. The front wheel drive version does have a torque steer problem when the pedal is put to the metal.If the driver goes form 30 to80 mph with an open throttle,it becomes apparent that the torque steer is there. Also one can feel the wheel give a tug when the car is given the power while coming out of a turn. The awd seems to limit the torque steer under fast acceleration because the rear wheels have most of the power delivered to them . But both versions have a heavy wheel. Also the awd version ,when driven on the expressway required some driver input to keep the vehicle in a straight line. Also, the time this vehicle takes to hit sixty is around 8.5 seconds according to my stopwach. I couldn't understand the reason for pressing the voice conrol button on the wheel and the having to wait for the voice prompt to ask for an instruction for me to say radio on. It's easier turn the radio on using the on button. Would I buy this car? It depends on how the STS performs.What ever decision I make, it wil be close.
It is 4 way power lumbar. You can have it really low in your back (as I like it) or higher up if you prefer. I only had limited seat time but I found the seat to be excellent, although I would prefer a longer seat cushion.
It is funny how different people can have different impressions of the ride quality, torque steer, etc. No car will be perfect for everyone. Akirby made a good point a while back - When you buy a new firmer mattress, at first is seems strange. After getting used to it, you wonder how you ever slept on that squishy thing you had before.
Another important point - most mfrs overinflate the tires for shipping to avoid flat-spotting - sometimes as much as 10-15 psi. If the dealer did not correct this then the ride quality will be awful. Next time have them check the air pressure or check it yourself.
Pros: Handling; light steering; materials; workmanship; navigation system; audio system; beautiful wood and very supple leather; minimal side blind spots; rearview camera; very few interior hard plastic pieces; smooth shifting transaxle; low engine noise except under hard acceleration (sounds like a V-6 and there's no mistaking the sound for a V-8); some torque steer under hard acceleration, but the steering wheel snaps back as if the stability control system takes control; charges an MP3 player when connected to the USB port.
Cons: Harsh ride (probably will dissuade some or even many current Lincoln owners from buying the car); some road noise; significant engine & a/c compressor vibration at idle felt mostly through the steering wheel (minimal transmission through dash top, pedals, and shift lever); tinny sounding door handles; small trunk opening; steering wheel too constricted in both tilt and telescope; feel of top of steering wheel at seam of wood & leather; speedometer view blocked at low steering wheel positions; no turn signal arrows in outside mirrors; no folding rear seat backs; some interior pieces in black when they should be the same color as the interior; needs more wood accents inside; Jukebox cannot record homemade MP3 discs to the car’s hard drive.
I just returned from a test drive in an AWD Ultimate. It was a more robust drive than I had at the preview event but I did have a pesky salesman with me. In any case, I am a bit less enthusiastic than I was after driving the one at the preview.
Part of the problem may be that the one I drove earlier had about 3000 miles on it while the one I drove today only had 43 miles on it. The one I just drove seemed pretty lethargic. More engine noise than acceleration. The 6 speed transmission really helps low speed acceleration but higher speed acceleration is not impressive, IMO. As kenb757 noted, I felt more vibration through the steering wheel at idle with the AC on than I expected. Maybe the stiffer structure promotes that because our Taurus is vibration-free. Perhaps a few thousand miles of break-in would improve the performance and smoothness. The one I drove at the preview was quicker and smoother and even sounded better.
The Ultimate has the 19" Eagle RS-A's and I was fine with the ride quality. I was not so fine with the tire noise on concrete roads. I drove my LS over the same road after getting out of the MKS and my LS was noticeably quieter. I put Goodyear Comfortreds on my LS a few months back and they are superbly quiet - better than the Michelins I had before and 1000% quieter than the original Firestones. I plan to drive an MKS with the 18s when the dealer gets one.
Overall, I sure wouldn't pay sticker for an MKS. It certainly has the technology part nailed but once some of the novelty wears off that, I can't say that the car has any real features/benefits that justify the price. I envision some incentives within a few months.
Did u read the TTAC take on the car? The reviewer nicknamed the transmission "Sucko the Clown" for the poor way it handled power delivery or lack thereof.
Your opinion here bodes true ill fro this car, you being one of it's major fans up til now. Makes one really wonder what the 2 Lincoln engineers have been doing for 3 or 4 years since the 500/Montego came out.
I know u dont like it, but I wonder how you'd rate a test drive in the S80 now, with both MKSes under your belt? Just to see what Volvo did to improve the platform.
Er - and what about the Jag XF? Only a few thou more than the ultimate S. And it has a V8!
I drove a Volvo S80 about a year ago. The interior is not as luxurious as the MKS, the back seat is smaller, the option packages are too expensive, and it looks too much like the cheaper S60. Driving dynamics were good, though, as I recall.
Yes, the Jag XF is really closer to being my cup of tea. Too bad Ford said Ta-ta to Jag, IMO. I haven't given up on the MKS quite yet, though. I think it will take the Ecoboost to really make it stand out and be unique but who knows when that will be available.
It is odd how different reviewers seem to have driven the exact same car, and yet have come up with completely different opinions. There's the TTAC review you mentioned, and then autoblog said this:
"Most newer automatic transmission vehicles are saddled with a lackadaisical shift response when set in normal Drive mode, undoubtedly calibrated to optimize the EPA mileage numbers. Thankfully, popping the shift lever in Sport mode has a dramatic effect. Shifts are sharper, although still smooth, occurring at higher revs with downshifts occurring promptly with a stab of the go pedal."
brucelinc, did you try it much in sport mode?
And if price was no object, I would definately take the Jag too, but as Salazzo said to Don Corleone "If you consider 10,000 merely financing, te salute, jeyhoe"
No doubt, one reviewer's poison is another's meat. Plus, different cars will differ somewhat, especially with today's software in the loop. And finally, the reviewers themselves will have diff driving styles.
The mks ultimate prices at mid-hi 40s doesnt it? While the Jag starts at 49? ecoBoost will probably boost the price of the S Ultimate into the 50s I would think.
Yes, I did and I also shifted it manually. I really have no complaints about the transmission. It is very smooth and it shifts quickly. In the manual mode, when you downshift, it automatically raises the engine speed to make it smooth. I was not quite so impressed with the so called "sport" mode. It almost holds the lower gears too long, in my opinion. It also downshifts if you apply the brakes and that seemed unnecessary in many cases. The manumatic feature works very nicely, although if the computer thinks you are going too slow for the chosen gear, it will automatically downshift.
Ford V6s seem to need quite a few break-in miles before they perform well. It seemed that the slightest acceleration would cause a downshift in the car I drove today. It was very smooth and I don't fault the transmission so much as the lack of engine performance. When our Taurus was new, it acted similarly. Now with 8000 miles, it runs a lot better and pulls better in the higher gears without downshifting so often.
Comments
EXACTLY what I had in mind, Marsha......
I sat in it, and am impressed with the interior. One of the reasons that I didn't buy a Cadillac CTS was the lack of headroom in the back seat. The MKS is much larger and roomier. However, I didn't bother driving the car. I would rather wait for the Eco-boost engine. I have been spoiled by powerful V-8 autos for too long...
I am also looking forward to seeing the Genesis, another generic looking big car.
BTW, my Lincoln-Mercury dealership looks like it hasn't been remodeled since 1970. It has less atmosphere than the waiting room at the free clinic. It's no wonder that rich mature folks are driving imports.
Another Autoblog Review
It seems that Autoblog is very taken by the Lincoln MKS. Also, I've noticed that allot of other magazines are as well. But the thing about the Article is read some of the comments that the people make after the review. Also, the biggest surprise so far is Motortrend. They are the most Anti-Ford magazine that I've ever seen. And they like it as well.
Motortrend
Well then again I shouldn't get to excited because their Anti-Ford king Angus Mckenzie hasn't had a chance to
pisshate andDamnover-insult the 2009 MKS yet. Remember, Angus Mckenzie was the one the call the MKS "The wrong car."So, does anybody here think there is any hope at all for the MKS for Motortrend car of the year ?
Yes/No ?
I don't think it stands out enough in any area except techno-goodies. I also don't think it matters one iota.
Ford has been its own worst enemy in terms of product decisions for many years. They rode a wave of success in the late 1990s, and then threw it away by forgetting that their success was based on new products. Mullaly has come along late in the game and at a point where all companies are scrambling to get out the products people really want to buy.
Ford has allowed so many good sellers to sink either through total neglect (Ranger, Crown Vic, Town Car, Taurus) or timid, tepid re-dos (Explorer, Expedition, Taurus). The MKS is a step in the right direction, because it is not merely a Taurus with different trim. But all Mercurys are still Fords with slight trim variations, and the MKX is an Edge and the MKZ is a Fusion with upgraded trim and a better engine. Lincoln deserves better. The present management is well aware of these mistakes. The question is can Ford survive independently long enough until models like the Fiesta, new world Focus, MKR, Explorer replacement, etc. can be available? And will the targets have moved once again by then?
Ford needs to get beyond trying to meet the competition, and instead leapfrog it, like they did with the original Mustang, the original Taurus, the first Explorer, the 97 F150, the original Navigator. It will be interesting to see if the Flex can get a special buzz going among those who buy people movers.
Exactly! Ford has the unique history of being a market leader, followed by a decade of neglect over and over again.
In my early years living in Detroit, 1980, 81, 82, there was a guy who said to me that he would never own a Ford Maverick because they were junk, but the quality of a Mercury (their version) was a sight to behold...remember, this was soemone who was from Detroit, and he thought the two cars were radically different...not only were they made side by side, but change the taillights and dashboard, and they were identical...
NEVER underestimate the stupidity of the American public...
And, since that is/was the rule for cars, THAT is why I blame the UAW much more than management...while Mgmt designs the cars, the UAW makes them...and a car made poorly on a Mon or Fri is not a mgmt problem, it is solely a labor problem...the assemblers can and do make more screwups, as they have done over 30 years...
I only hope that with the MKS (and Taurus/Sable) Ford realizes that they are fighting for their life, and a poorly made car means Ford is history...we simply will not tolerate mediocrity anymore, when there is good stuff to be had...
"NEVER underestimate the stupidity of the American public... "
I don't agree with those comments, your talking about back in the 80's. The market and the world is very different. The internet and the car market are being driven by the "Millenias." That's important because that is the demographic Lincoln is aiming for with the MKS and there future products. That is one of the reasons why I'm so annoyed with Edmunds and Motortrend.
The main stream media has done such a great job of ramming down the "Millenias" throats of the mentality "Don't buy an American car because American cars are junk. The look real good and go real fast and they do all these cute little wonderful things. But once the American car hits that 1,000 mile warranty they are going to fall apart." "Buy Imports, Imports are God and they run Forever." Too me I can tell that the "professional unbias reporting" media believes that crap as well. For example. BMW and Mini have some of the lowest quality scores as brands when it comes to quality. European cars have been that way for years. I think Mercedes Benz is the only mass production european brand that's in the top 10. Porsche doesn't could to me because Ford is probably going to sell more of the 2008 North American Focus than all of Porsche world wide. Yet Edmunds or Motortrend never slam the europeans for there poor quality. But, when it comes to an American car especially Ford. Oh come on Ford, you need to try harder !!!!!!!!!! and yet Ford is #8 in the world of quality. Edmunds and Motortrend shovel us that Media BS oh we know you can do better. Really Edmunds and Motortrend, Do you really think they can do better. Or are you just being the "High school Bully" hiding behind BS.
Based off what you've been saying and doing Motortrend and Edmunds your not being very constant. Plus the fact, It's not going to help the situation if the "Millenias" log onto the internet and read from some of the biggest car magazines "The 2009 MKS is the Wrong car" or "The 2009 MKS is just a dressed up Taurus with a bigger Lincoln engine" and the "Millenias" didn't want to buy the car in the first place.
Fords biggest problem is not it's product, Fords biggest problem is public opinion. I don't see how these two huge car magazines are helping the situation at all. Think of it like this. Ford was a very bad professional football team in the NFL for years. They have been losing for years. This year for the first time in many many years they are having a winning season and have made the wild card playoffs. Instead of the media say "Wow Ford, you really have turned the corner you need to work on a couple of things and you could be an awesome team." instead the media is saying to America "Oh come on Ford, you need to try harder your still 15-25 years behind the competition. Even with gas being $4-5.00/gallon the MKS needs to be a 500000 HP rear wheel drive car. In order for it to be a "proper" flagship. Not a dressed up nicely done Taurus" Now, does the media really think they can do better or are they being the "High school bully" I think the high school bully. One last thing, if you are a football fan that has no interest in this team. How is that latter mentality going to change your opinion of that team? Simple, none.
Sorry for the rant but I had to get that off my chest. :sick:
Mercedes has been slammed in the press for poor quality and high repair costs. Porsches are criticized for being overpriced and expensive to repair as well. I think you only attend to "evidence" that supports your view, and you discount evidence to the contrary. Regardless, Ford is in a life-death struggle now, because of poor decisions made years ago when they were sitting on top. Time will tell if they can right things in time.
Just say the improvements and have customers verify it (a few high profile ones would not hurt).
For one who has had Fords for more than 20 years, I believe they are America’s best-kept secret that should not be that way. Ford has an image problem and much of it was and still is it’s own fault. I will say it looks like they are beginning to wake up and smell the coffee. Sometimes it feels good to travel long distance to see the family, pull up in a vehicle that was less expensive, cheaper to operate, and look just as good if not better than the other vehicles my family members have. I for one like the MKS just as it is. I do not care which side of the filler is on the vehicle. If I cannot remember then I will look at the gas gauge for the arrow that tells me which side the filler is on. (Ahh, I can here some of you now, “Ohh, so that is what that arrow is for”).
All in all Ford has gotten a bum rap, but I did not see too much in defending itself when the rumors took hold. I for one cannot wait till my MKS arrives even though I ordered it back in February. If I hate one thing about the vehicle is the way they advertised it. Don’t get me wrong the TV ads were great, but don’t show me something and then tell me I can’t get it they way you have shown it to me till much later. It is a slap across the face. :shades:
What is your opinion about the ride quality - compliance over bumps and broken pavement? Firm? Soft? Just right?
Looking good requires sacrifice. Big wheel shoppers give up ride quality for the looks. A rough ride is not the only annoyance; big rims can also significantly degrade performance and safety. Anything that adds weight to the wheel and tire assembly affects acceleration and braking, and it can hurts handling as well. It's not uncommon to gain 40 pounds when swapping a 16" wheel out for a 20". If you increase unsprung weight, it will decrease wheel control. Putting big wheels and tires on a vehicle that wasn't designed for it can result in traction loss traveling at speed. As you increase rotating mass, it's also harder for brakes to stop the wheel from spinning. This can decrease brake life. Acceleration can also be negatively affected.
In sum, there is a big, big difference between setting a car up for 18s or 20s. The 20s are fashion and looks only. Like high heels, which give a great look to the leg but kill the feet. Too bad there isn't a 16 or 17 inch comfort option as wellas the 18s. However, the 18 option is engineered for comfort. Try it.
So, if you've had a Focus or Taurus, you may not have been very impressed, and you never forget it. But if you hate Fords, you just haven't had a Ford Truck.
Anyway, that's how I see it. YMMV, but if Ford could build cars like they do trucks, and still sell them at a competitive price, life would be good for them.
FWIW, IMO, GM doesn't really do either that well...... I think people who love GM just aren't used to quality and haven't tried much else yet.
No matter what tire choice, I think the MKS suspension is tuned for more control and handling capability than a Taurus or other mainstream family sedan. That seems appropriate in view of the competition.
It is funny how different people can have different impressions of the ride quality, torque steer, etc. No car will be perfect for everyone. Akirby made a good point a while back - When you buy a new firmer mattress, at first is seems strange. After getting used to it, you wonder how you ever slept on that squishy thing you had before.
$45,175.00 MSRP including $800.00 delivery
Tires: Goodyear Eagle RS-A P255/45R19 100V
19” wheels
Pros:
Handling; light steering; materials; workmanship; navigation system; audio system; beautiful wood and very supple leather; minimal side blind spots; rearview camera; very few interior hard plastic pieces; smooth shifting transaxle; low engine noise except under hard acceleration (sounds like a V-6 and there's no mistaking the sound for a V-8); some torque steer under hard acceleration, but the steering wheel snaps back as if the stability control system takes control; charges an MP3 player when connected to the USB port.
Cons:
Harsh ride (probably will dissuade some or even many current Lincoln owners from buying the car); some road noise; significant engine & a/c compressor vibration at idle felt mostly through the steering wheel (minimal transmission through dash top, pedals, and shift lever); tinny sounding door handles; small trunk opening; steering wheel too constricted in both tilt and telescope; feel of top of steering wheel at seam of wood & leather; speedometer view blocked at low steering wheel positions; no turn signal arrows in outside mirrors; no folding rear seat backs; some interior pieces in black when they should be the same color as the interior; needs more wood accents inside; Jukebox cannot record homemade MP3 discs to the car’s hard drive.
Part of the problem may be that the one I drove earlier had about 3000 miles on it while the one I drove today only had 43 miles on it. The one I just drove seemed pretty lethargic. More engine noise than acceleration. The 6 speed transmission really helps low speed acceleration but higher speed acceleration is not impressive, IMO. As kenb757 noted, I felt more vibration through the steering wheel at idle with the AC on than I expected. Maybe the stiffer structure promotes that because our Taurus is vibration-free. Perhaps a few thousand miles of break-in would improve the performance and smoothness. The one I drove at the preview was quicker and smoother and even sounded better.
The Ultimate has the 19" Eagle RS-A's and I was fine with the ride quality. I was not so fine with the tire noise on concrete roads. I drove my LS over the same road after getting out of the MKS and my LS was noticeably quieter. I put Goodyear Comfortreds on my LS a few months back and they are superbly quiet - better than the Michelins I had before and 1000% quieter than the original Firestones. I plan to drive an MKS with the 18s when the dealer gets one.
Overall, I sure wouldn't pay sticker for an MKS. It certainly has the technology part nailed but once some of the novelty wears off that, I can't say that the car has any real features/benefits that justify the price. I envision some incentives within a few months.
Did u read the TTAC take on the car? The reviewer nicknamed the transmission "Sucko the Clown" for the poor way it handled power delivery or lack thereof.
Your opinion here bodes true ill fro this car, you being one of it's major fans up til now. Makes one really wonder what the 2 Lincoln engineers have been doing for 3 or 4 years since the 500/Montego came out.
I know u dont like it, but I wonder how you'd rate a test drive in the S80 now, with both MKSes under your belt? Just to see what Volvo did to improve the platform.
Er - and what about the Jag XF? Only a few thou more than the ultimate S. And it has a V8!
Yes, the Jag XF is really closer to being my cup of tea. Too bad Ford said Ta-ta to Jag, IMO. I haven't given up on the MKS quite yet, though. I think it will take the Ecoboost to really make it stand out and be unique but who knows when that will be available.
"Most newer automatic transmission vehicles are saddled with a lackadaisical shift response when set in normal Drive mode, undoubtedly calibrated to optimize the EPA mileage numbers. Thankfully, popping the shift lever in Sport mode has a dramatic effect. Shifts are sharper, although still smooth, occurring at higher revs with downshifts occurring promptly with a stab of the go pedal."
brucelinc, did you try it much in sport mode?
And if price was no object, I would definately take the Jag too, but as Salazzo said to Don Corleone "If you consider 10,000 merely financing, te salute, jeyhoe"
The mks ultimate prices at mid-hi 40s doesnt it? While the Jag starts at 49? ecoBoost will probably boost the price of the S Ultimate into the 50s I would think.
Yes, I did and I also shifted it manually. I really have no complaints about the transmission. It is very smooth and it shifts quickly. In the manual mode, when you downshift, it automatically raises the engine speed to make it smooth. I was not quite so impressed with the so called "sport" mode. It almost holds the lower gears too long, in my opinion. It also downshifts if you apply the brakes and that seemed unnecessary in many cases. The manumatic feature works very nicely, although if the computer thinks you are going too slow for the chosen gear, it will automatically downshift.
Ford V6s seem to need quite a few break-in miles before they perform well. It seemed that the slightest acceleration would cause a downshift in the car I drove today. It was very smooth and I don't fault the transmission so much as the lack of engine performance. When our Taurus was new, it acted similarly. Now with 8000 miles, it runs a lot better and pulls better in the higher gears without downshifting so often.