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Not only that, but suddenly everything became a truck - PT Cruisers, MPVs, even Subaru Outback sedans.
To make matters worse, the exception for trucks was intended to give work/fleet vehicles a pass, not personal use vehicles. So even a Suburban used as a family car should have counted as under the CAFE car averages, because it was not a business-owned fleet vehicle.
Still my biggest beef with the "new" subcompacts is they aren't new and many aren't sub. They are the same old sub compacts that have become old in other parts of the world. They answered a problem in Asia or Europe that doesn't translate to US as well as it should.
All that will do is make cars bigger.
They should just offer lower tax rates for small engines. Encourage economy, not wastefullness.
We are a stubborn people and when they try to force us into one direction we simply move in another. That is why we got SUVs and People using a full sized truck as their main transportation in the first place.
CAFE tries to address the symptoms not the disease. Toss it out and let the manufacturers face their customers head on. Try it and see if it works and maybe we will have as many small cars as we did before CAFE. I remember when we had Renault, Fiat, Nissan, VW, Toyota, Honda, MG, TR, Cooper and any number of other small cars to choose from and it was the government that killed them. I simply don't think either the government of the manufacturers have bothered to see what the people want. They simply seem to think they know what we need.
Example: say the air bags cost $500, just to use a round number. On a Versa, that means 5% of the cost you pay is due to the air bag.
On a $100,000 luxury car, that same air bag represents an insignificant 0.5% of the overall cost.
So nowadays smaller cars carry that handicap. They're not much cheaper than mid-sized cars. A Fit is only a few grand less than a Civic. Same from Civic to Accord.
It's not like TV sets, where 40" costs a certain amount and 46" doubles the price. 52" is triple or more.
I don't think price reflects costs very well, too. Why is the Venza more expensive than the bigger Sienna, for instance? Demand is why.
I doubt Toyota makes a profit on a basic Yaris at $11k, but it does bring in young buyers (college kids especially) and those will likely become Camry or even Lexus customers after they graduate.
Brand loyalty ain't what it used to be, but I do think that a college kid that got 250,000 miles out of a Tercel way back when is very, very likely to buy more Toyotas later in life.
I had a great experience with a Forester and looked hard at the Tribeca even though I knew what I really needed was a minivan.
Fortunately the new car bug has faded a bit with my wife, although another zero percent deal may get her attention again.
Back to subcompacts, have I complained recently how expensive those little cars are? The Fit Sport penciled out for $18 OTD with tax.
Mazda3 will offer Navi for $500, now that's more like it.
I hope Mazda offers the hatch with the 2.0l engine. Add a Scion tC-like glass roof and I'd actually consider one as my city car.
I will probably end up with another Miata, though. Prices have crept down a little, but I'm still waiting for the steep discounts to appear.
Right - I'm still happy with my $99 portable nav/gps so I just priced out a manual Sport. I should go price used Miatas again - freezing weather has arrived. :shades:
Thing is, wholesale has dropped to $11-12k for the higher mile ones, so you just KNOW those prices are gonna tumble when it gets cold.
I looked last year and saw some for $16k. Then in the summer they were up, and the cheapest were $16-17k, so they actually went up in value with the warm weather.
They'll go down again, because of the cold, a year of aging, plus a bad market.
Shoot, I only paid ~$19k for my first house. That was 1974, but still, it's still standing last I checked. (And Zillow says it's worth $165k).
Shoot, I only paid ~$19k for my first house. That was 1974, but still, it's still standing last I checked. (And Zillow says it's worth $165k).
Yeah, but does your house have cruise control?
1974 and orange shag rugs. Oh that brings back memories.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
More like nightmares.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
23 Civic Type-R / 22 MDX Type-S / 21 Tesla Y LR / 03 Montero Ltd
I like the Polo, hopefully the TDI will make it over here.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
The Fiat Group Wish List
and another Polo story:
At Long Last, Volkswagen Plans To Bring Its Fuel-Sipping Polo Subcompact to U.S.
That said, the Polo with the TDI engine gets well over 60mpg.
I hope they don't de-content it too much to get the price way down.
They should aim squarely for the Honda Fit, and take the premium compact end of the segment.
F 500 : 3.55
Mini : 3.70
Jazz : 3.83
The Jazz just plain outperforms the other two in interior space/useability and the 500 just isn't up to challenging it, nor is it designed to; the Jazz just uses every cubic inch in the cabin, (or so my wife says of hers).
Would be hard to de-spec the F500, they'd have to leave off the doors or something. Very nice little car but you'd buy one more for "style" than anything else; but "style" it has in bucketloads. Fiat recently launched the "Abarth" version here. 150bhp and tweaked, plus lots of go-faster goodies, (you know, body stripes, scorpion decals etc - that kind of go-faster). Now that will be a blast; style and fun in one small package. :shades:
Will be interested to see how dressed up the Beat will be when it arrives, and what its performance will be like.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
But I was thinking more of premium subcompacts - superlative performance or features or both. Models like the Abarth that could be sold for prices as high as many compact cars. For now though, the Fiat talk is just talk, I agree.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Odd review last week on the new Ford Ka, which is their smallest offering; smaller than the Fiesta. Existing Ka is quirky and well-liked, (despite using the oldest pushrod engine of any European car). The new Ka is, stylistically, a baby Fiesta. The review I read absolutely slated the car as being a real backward step from the original, in all departments. Now all the other Fords in Europe; Fiesta, Focus, Mondeo, Galaxy are highly rated in their sectors and yet the Ka gets the thumbs down in a big way. Then the reviewer pointed out that the new Ka shares the same platform as the Fiat 500.............which is universally praised and loved...............so how can they have got it so wrong ?
Beats me but the Ford/Fiat tie-up info was interesting.
Fiesta could bring a hot model here, too. ST?
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/03/03/geneva-2009-2010-volkswagen-polo/
And 62 mpg for the diesel! I don't know what a BlueMotion Polo will sticker at, but it will be on my watch list for sure. Will give the Fit hybrid (if that model makes it to fruition) a serious run for its money.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I wonder what the little panels below the headlights are for?
No pics with the hatch open, but it looks like the tail-lights intrude into the opening.
Interior shots show a manual transmission (Woo-Hoo!) :shades:
Otherwise, bring it.
Problem is, it won't be any cheaper than the base Golf is now. They'll just move the Golf up in price and content to make room.
We are (I hope) gradually going to see the emergence of two subclasses: economy subcompacts and "premium" subcompacts. With Yaris/Versa/Aveo/Rio/Accent in the first group, and Polo/Fiesta/Fit/Mini in the latter. Imagine that! In less than a decade we have gone from pretty much NO choices to NINE! :-)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Hey, I'm thiiiiiiiis close to picking up a new Miata, power retractable hard top.
Small = fun.
Of course, I just have to add: that's the really nice thing about all of today's minis (the Mini included) - lots of interior space for driver and passengers, despite the small outside dimensions.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I'm picking it up tonight, it's pretty much a done deal. I even have a backup out-the-door price just in case this falls through.
Stormy Blue Mica, PRHT, Touring model 6 speed manual, and of course I'm getting the Suspension package, with Bilstein shocks, 17" rims, lower profile tires, and most importantly a Torsen rear limited-slip diff!
I'm on Cloud 9! :shades:
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
The Corolla is light years ahead of garbage like the Chevy Aveo. Corolla is more comparable to new Malibu than Aveo is to Corolla
GM is dead, dying, and over!
The Corolla is light years ahead of garbage like the Chevy Aveo. Corolla is more comparable to new Malibu than Aveo is to Corolla
Toyota Corolla Base Price Base Model: $15,350
Chevrolet Aveo Base Price Base Model: $12,645
Kia Rio Base Price Base Model: $12,145
or a 30% difference
Misguided anger aside, you should compare apples and apples.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
A few of my friends have Scion xAs and xBs, which are pretty much the same thing. I can't say I was too impressed either way. My friend was bragging about how inexpensive his xA was, but then bought a suspension kit and tires/wheels to make it drivable and by then the price was in Mazda3 territory, which seems better in every performance measure save fuel economy. Even Shiftright, who loved his xA needed a rear sway bar and tires. I don't see the Yaris as being an improvement.
The Accent I had as a rental recently seemed acceptable although I didn't have it over 45 mph. Even when it had 2 passengers it felt fine. I am pretty sure it was the base model, I don't think it had cruise or the power package.
The Aveo is cheap. Thats its claim to fame. Transaction prices are south of 5 digits. I would opt for a used car before something like that, but I am also more comfortable with doing my own maintenance.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Start adding options, and those Corollas can get expensive fast, too. Although I guess the same can be said of any car. One of my office mates briefly had a 2009 Corolla S, and I think he paid around $20K for it. IIRC, he said it MSRP'ed for around $22K. Now it was a nice car, with power windows, alloys, and a sunroof. But it didn't have power seats or leather, and I think it still just had the base engine.
Is the Yaris really a 13,000 car or are actual transaction prices north or south of that? The Aveo is a 10,000 car as far as I can tell from the papers. I don't have a sense of that either way with the Toyota. Does Nissan still have the $9999 Versa?