There is a fellow in Orange county that has a Civic FCX leased. Have not heard anything since the launch. He may have exploded
The Smart cars are selling like hotcakes in Canada. Talked to a dealer in Victoria and an owner. Cool little cars that get an honest 70+ MPG city driving. No way to sneak them into the USA as far as I can tell.
But lemko - you have to admit, you are a dying breed.....at least right now.
Hey, I've owned just a smattering of Japanese cars in my lifetime and about 40 Domestics - so I'm not white hot, but I like domestic product, and consider it superior in some applications. Occasionally though, I have a need the Japanese fill better. My 89 Honda Civic. My 96 Infiniti, now my Lexus.
But look - I was at the auction today. Ran across a "4 holer", so I gave it a close inspection. Now, I've owned Buicks in the past, and liked them. They represented style, class and success even a decade ago. But I'm sorry, I believe they have Oldsmobiled this car and doomed it to oblivian, at least in this country. It's not pretty anymore. The rear end particularly is grotesque to me. The interior is about up to Buick standards, but that's not exceptional. 4 holes in the sides again is a nice touch. They should have never let go of that tradition. Changing the name was just stupid. Most stupid move they could have made. Park Avenue said exactly the right thing. Lucerne isn't even a North American name, it's French! Not exactly a patriotic connotation at this time, since the French despise us.
In summary, I would throw this car away in a heartbeat. It's probably a pretty good car, with that venerable 3800 Briggs & Stratton engine, better with the Chevy Truck V-8. Not what a Buick used to be to me.
I met a fellow in Victoria that has a home on the island and in Seattle. He keeps his Smart Twofor at his place in Seattle. A well equipped convertible was $19k CA in Victoria. I wonder how they license them in WA.
The Tundra as it is now is a lame duck nearly 7 yrs old, which is decrepit in a Toyota cycle.
The new one due out in Dec and then Mar will take an additional 200K units from the detroiters somewhere. Ram? F150? GM? All three will lose some units. Which is most vulnerable?
I'm not sure...there's a place in Kirkland I believe that sells them and has been for a little while, so I assume they comply with DOT silliness. But for the money, one can do better.
If it is the version that Zap is bringing in it is a waste of money. They are putting some lame gas engine in to satisfy the EPA. Without the Diesel it is a worthless car. I figured I could buy one in Victoria and keep it licensed to a PO Box and bring it to the states. Not my idea of a highway vehicle just a short haul grocery store rig. Even then I can buy a lot of gas for my PU truck with $19k.
I just googled it...it is indeed that firm. The way I see it, if I had my heart set on a diesel I can get a nice Jetta TDI and have several grand left over for the 27K they want for the things here. Or get a nice older MB diesel, even from the late 90s, and have a nice chunk of change left over, or hold out a few more years and get a E320CDI.
I am not sure how one could dodge the rules and get a Canadian car into the US...lots of cool grey market imports in BC, as the restriction is 15 years, not 500 years or whatever people are blessed with south of the border
I like the E320 CDI myself. If I sell the MB Cruiser I may go for that or the ML320 CDI when it arrives. The Smart Twofor diesel is just a niche car but kind of cool. Probably not practical.
The DOT exemption is 25 years. There's not much of anything built in 1981 worth importing though, and it still has to pass whatever emission standards may apply in your locality.
"I am not sure how one could dodge the rules and get a Canadian car into the US..."
Well, it's done all the time, fin... Not a huge deal if you put them through the DOT inspection - some need a speedo conversion, many these days don't. You use that funky kph thingy up there ya know..... I've bought several Canadian cars at the auction for friends - trucks mainly.
Yeah, that looks good! They've got F-150 written all over it again, but that's not a bad thing - it has been the gold standard forever. It should do well. The question as you said is, who does it hurt the most? The Titan, also an F-150 sillouette, took a lot from Ford. Problems with the Titan have driven some customers back to Ford, I've heard. But if you're me, you feel that Ford is the best Domestic brand, bested by Toyota & Honda (in their niche), so if Ford doesn't have what you want - Toyota is always my next stop......
Of course, I'm an oddball.....I realize the rest of y'all aren't like me....
Without the diesel option it will have a battle winning many buyers away from the Big 3. I understand they are bringing out a 3/4 & 1 ton model. Do they have a diesel option?
Yeah, I've seen that too...I've also heard people say to stay away from Canadian trucks imported into the US as they often come from harsh industrial use
I was talking about grey market imports that are kosher in Canada but not here. You can go to Van and on any given day see a Skyline or a Honda Beat or a Toyota Century or a Euro model E class etc...those are the ones that wouldn't find a home to the south.
I think/hope all MB will get diesels in the next couple years. Some super hitech S-class diesel could find a market too....25 years ago the S-class diesel sold like hotcakes at a big price...I think there would be a niche today.
Not sure about this but many manufacturers don't like that and will penalize a Canadian dealer if they sell a car that gets registered in the U.S. I think there is an old closed forum here on edmunds about that.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Apparently Toyota has almost perfected "monday see, monkey do" in the auto industry. I wouldn't be surprised to see the new Tundra gaining market share from the domestic 2.5.
Lucerne is in Switzerland, not France. It is also in the refrigerator section in Safeway super markets. Just to clarify things. What do you think of the LaCrosse styling? -Loren
Lucerne is a decent sounding name, and fits the car. But it just doesn't sound right. "Lou-ssern". The emphasis is on "loose".
LaCrosse, too, just doesn't feel right. Especially with its sporting connotations. It doesn't sound athletic. And how big is the lacrosse scene these days anyway? It's not exactly a prominent sport, but then, there couldn't be a Buick Football.
I don't understand why people moan about Buick's new names. Buick has always had mock-pretentious names (Riviera? LeSabre? Park Avenue?), and the new ones don't even sound that different (LaCrosse-LeSabre, for example). I think the main reason for the change was because the names were getting such a bad stigma. The LeSabre was the pensioner-express, the Century was a cheapo rental car.
Think, back in the late 80's/early 90's, the Reatta was pitched as a halo car, and I hear it could have had a much more interesting/premium engine than the 3800. But, of course, GM executives shot that down and the justification was that "Buick was seeking an older, more mature demographic". Look where that got them. Ten years down the track, Buick was trying to shed its image and make itself more appealing to younger people.
Another example of a lack of hindsight in 80's GM management.
Oh, good point, m1, my bad. (History was my minor, not Geography, but I can still beat Bush in a map contest...)
Still hate the Lucerne name, and hate LaCrosse even more. The Styling of the LaCross is less objectionable to me, but also unremarkable to be sure. The LaCrosse that impressed the heck out of me was the Asian version they're selling in China. If they brought that one here - they would remake Buick in one year!!!
Good point!! Probably have to make it Mexico to compete on price. It's a looker though, and almost copies my Lexus interior exactly! Looks just as good too, closer inspection may show a difference in materials quality, but the picture is amazing. I suppose in the Buick you'd get Plood instead of Wood, but for a Buick price, I'm fine with that. In my 83 Park Avenue, the Plood was very good quality Plood, and I quite liked it......
Not necessarily...Following is what I posted on the GM forum, it's a little study that I did couple days ago while we are talking about the Asian LaCrosse. BTW FYI the MSRP of the LaCrosse in China is from high 20k to low 40k USD (including sales tax).
If you have already seen this comparison please ignore it.
BTW, all the above models are being assembled locally, as well as the Asian LaCrosse.
By looking at the treand we can see that the US auto prices are about 10% less than the prices in Asian. To be precise let's take the average of the 4 differences and that gives us: 89.5%.
So given that let's assume the Asian LaCrosse's local MSRP is about 35,000 USD (let's not including that backseat entertainment system). 89.5% of the 35,000 USD gives us 31,325 USD (this number includes the 7% sales tax). So without the sales tax the MSRP of the Asian LaCrosse here in the NA market should come up to be: 29,133 USD.
Give that the US version LaCrosse CXS is listed at 27,990 I'll say the Asian LaCrosse should do pretty well if GM decides to market them here in NA.
By pricing it around 28,500 USD I'll say this is a pretty good Lexus ES fighter.
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What do you think of the new CLS500? We have seen 3 in the last few days. My wife and I both find them not all that attractive. Looks like poor visibility as many new cars suffer from.
I think it can be interesting from some angles, but I wouldn't want one, for the reasons you mention. The greenhouse is too short. I like excellent visibility...I am one of those people who can't see how people slouch in the drivers seat, as it restricts visibility so much. I don't think I would be happy in one. That being said, the car seems to be a success, in my area anyway. I see at least a couple of them daily.
Not a big fan of those too high door window sills. Looks like this Mercedes would be a giant Porsche 911 if you humped the back and it flowed without interruption all the way to the rear. It's getting there :surprise: If ya really think about it, the design while pleasing enough, is somewhat all too easy. Yeah, a swoopy car must look arched front to back. The designer takes out pencil and draws up a double arched lines of roof and door line and well ya got it. Whoopie! $65K ??? Don't know anything about the dynamics of the car, and don't really care, as that amount of money for a car is out of my league. And I may add, there are wonderful cars for half that amount which I would consider, even if I had the big bucks. And for reliability? Kinda sad when Hyundai kicks your butt. -Loren
How can you even mention the two brands in the same breath? I got stuck with an Accent as a loaner for a few hours. Then I drove my sister's new Tiburon all over Phoenix. I would not give a penny for either vehicle. Pure Junk. I don't care if they had a million mile warranty. I would rather have an E320 CDI in the shop twice a week as to be stuck driving a Hyundai for a day.
Well statistics say other wise. It appears your Mercedes is more likely to be found on the road dead than is a Sonata or Azera. So tell me, what is junk about the Tiburon. I test drove the GT some time back, and it seemed like a fine sporty car. The Accent is built for cheap transportation. Of course it is not a luxurious car. I bet you want an E320 so when it is in the shop you can drive a Hyundai. Come on, be truthful here. Actually, if you want it all, as in luxury, paying too much for a car, and bullet proof, just buy a Lexus. Now since Mercedes is so good, and they have a history of some pretty sturdy cars, let's back them with a 100,000 mile warranty. Good way for Mercedes to prove their more economical, and all the way up to top of the line are at least close to Korea and Japan for reliability. For $30K to $100K cars, is it too much to ask? The four year deal is not bad. Not bad if they had a good reputation for reliability like Honda, Toyota, or.....
Hyundai OK, a building of a reputation for reliability and a warranty to assure the customer they will repair the car if it is not correct. -Loren
I looked at the E series when we bought the Caddy. I will say that while they are nice cars if I had $50,000 to spend on a car I would buy the Azera and pocket the $20,000+ difference.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Well I did get the super special never have been before and never will be again in the entire history of this or any other universe ultra mega uberdeal on the Caddy.
And yes I pocketed the difference.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
My sister loves the car. So I did not say anything to her. It was rough riding, very uncomfortable drivers seat. And my foot cramped up from a very odd accelerator pedal angle.
I went shopping in the little tinny Accent loaner while they were doing the 5000 mile service on my Passat. Horrible ride, noisy uneven braking & the trunk lid hits the antenna when you close it. I had to hold the antenna to the side when closing the trunk or it would have broken it off. Why would I consider driving any other Hyundai after that?
Odds are we probably will not buy a Mercedes unless they get their act together on their diesels. In fact I do not see myself buying any new car or truck that is not diesel.
The whole MB reliability thing should be aimed at the entry level cars that should have come in under one of the Chrysler names instead of Mercedes.
Mercedes sales are up this year, while both Camry & Accord are down compared to last year. The "S" & "E" are both doing quite well. In fact the San Diego MB dealer I visited was much busier than the two Toyota dealers I visited a week ago.
PS We do have a Lexus from a time long ago when they were good looking.
Is there a study that actually documents or predicts the chances of a car having a disabling failure, rather than simple "defects" or "problems"? For the record, I haven't seen a broken down MB or Hyundai on the side of any road.
I can agree with MB offering a big warranty...people claim the troubled days are over, let's see it. I've heard nothing but good about the new S so far. I doubt MB will jump on it though...it won't sell. Most people who buy these things new seem to get rid of them by the time they hit 5 years old anyway - gotta keep up with the latest model and all.
Now since Mercedes is so good, and they have a history of some pretty sturdy cars, let's back them with a 100,000 mile warranty.
Agreed. All luxury brands would sell better(to people like me at least) with the long warranties. Most luxury buyers don't have to pinch pennies and don't worry about unexpected costs. However there are a lot of people like me that would spend the $40,000 to $50,000 or even higher if they knew the car would last them trouble free for 5 years and 100,000 miles. Many car makers do this to "buy into" the market (Hyundai), some do it like Chrysler did to get confidence back. I'm guessing the Germans would go broke.
No there isn't a study on that. Was pointing out that since there are more problems per unit sold on MB cars, the likelihood of being stalled along side the road would be higher.
Not too many cars dead on the road these days. I do recall the old days of the 60's when cars still bit the dust quite often. I heard that the 50's were more so. Go back to the 40's a earlier years, it was very common to end the day hitched to a tow truck.
To answer the question set forward on this forum of whom will make the next car sell, I say what ever car is best for me at the time. Will buy what I can afford, while providing the best value, longevity, fun, and looks. Maybe it will be an American Hyundai, Honda or Toyota, or a US/Canadian/Mexican/German, Ford, or GM. Kinda funny how things are backwards looking now. -Loren
I think everybody here needs to be honest. There is no way to compare the quality of a MB with a Tiburon.
However there is a BIG difference in QUALITY and RELIABILITY. MB's are put together very well and they sound and feel solid. However they and most other European cars are not all that reliable. If the Germans had outsourced their electronics to the Japanese they would have an unbeatable combination. The way it is though BMW's,MB's and Audis are selling on style and past reputation. Unless they clean up their act they will miss selling to the GenX and Millenium's generations ho are buying Scions and other japanese cars (who eventually will trade up - Lexus, Infiniti, Acura's...)
OK apples to apples. Is the $30K Azera not as good a quality and better in reliability than a Mercedes of $30K? I know the old Mercedes were like tanks - very strong. Great paint jobs and such. But can you say the same today? Perhaps the German luxury starter car is indeed of better quality. It would be interesting for a professional to take the two cars part by part and examine the overall quality. This is something brought to light time and time again, about the soundness, strength and overall quality of build of a German vs. other models of cars. Would be interesting to see real evidence of such on like priced models.
Reliability issues. Which cars have serious problems, vs less worrisome glitches. It appears VWs have had some real issues for some years now. -Loren
I don't know. I think cars like the Lexus IS series have cheapened the brand. The GS looks like a Camry with fancy trim. I could like the LS430 I think. To tell the truth the only reason my wife wanted to trade her 1990 LS400 on a new Lexus was to get a CD player and XM radio. The LS400 runs like new, with only 84k miles. Not a scratch on the original paint. Always in the garage when not being driven. We went down and looked at all the new Lexus. The only one she liked was the LX470. Her step daughter has a pearl white one and she likes it. Her biggest complaint with all the Lexus cars is visibility. She could not believe that the IS250 was really a Lexus. Her comment "What is Lexus thinking building that little car?". I have to agree. Same goes for all the cheapo Mercedes that have dragged MB down.
I don't know. I think cars like the Lexus IS series have cheapened the brand
So, to use the same thought process...you think cars like the 3-series have also cheapened the BMW brand as well? BTW, in case you haven't figure it out yet, currently IS350 is the best performance sedan in the Lexus lineup. I might agree with you that the last generation IS is not up to the Lexus standard (but boy that's one great handling car) but to say the current generation IS has cheapened the brand is absolutely bogus (regardless of IMO or not).
To tell the truth the only reason my wife wanted to trade her 1990 LS400 on a new Lexus was to get a CD player and XM radio
You can get that done in either Bestbuy or CircuitCity, oh BTW, they do free installations.
The GS looks like a Camry with fancy trim
If you meant the ES then I agree with you but GS...come on. The GS has a different chasis, also it's a RWD comparing to Camry's FWD, how in the world is that a Camry with fancy trim???
She could not believe that the IS250 was really a Lexus. Her comment "What is Lexus thinking building that little car?"
Little car? It's about the same size as the BMW 3-series, MB C-class and the Infiniti G. In case you haven't figure it out yet, the entry-luxury class is the best seller for most of the luxury brands so if Lexus wants to gain more market share they'll have to be competitive within this segment. That, my friend is why Lexus is building "little" cars like the IS250/350.
Last but not least, Lexus is not the same now as in 1990 when your wife purchased the LS400. Back then Lexus needed a car loaded with goodies with about the same size as the S-class and 7-series but half the price to establish the brand and that's how the LS400 came along. Now Lexus is the best-selling luxury brand in US so it needs a full lineup in order to stay competitive. While Lexus is building "little" cars like the IS and ES they still haven't forget the one that makes them what they are today - The LS.
Comments
They are both pushed by the government as needed. One for safety the other emissions.
The Smart cars are selling like hotcakes in Canada. Talked to a dealer in Victoria and an owner. Cool little cars that get an honest 70+ MPG city driving. No way to sneak them into the USA as far as I can tell.
Hey, I've owned just a smattering of Japanese cars in my lifetime and about 40 Domestics - so I'm not white hot, but I like domestic product, and consider it superior in some applications. Occasionally though, I have a need the Japanese fill better. My 89 Honda Civic. My 96 Infiniti, now my Lexus.
But look - I was at the auction today. Ran across a "4 holer", so I gave it a close inspection. Now, I've owned Buicks in the past, and liked them. They represented style, class and success even a decade ago. But I'm sorry, I believe they have Oldsmobiled this car and doomed it to oblivian, at least in this country. It's not pretty anymore. The rear end particularly is grotesque to me. The interior is about up to Buick standards, but that's not exceptional. 4 holes in the sides again is a nice touch. They should have never let go of that tradition. Changing the name was just stupid. Most stupid move they could have made. Park Avenue said exactly the right thing. Lucerne isn't even a North American name, it's French! Not exactly a patriotic connotation at this time, since the French despise us.
In summary, I would throw this car away in a heartbeat. It's probably a pretty good car, with that venerable 3800 Briggs & Stratton engine, better with the Chevy Truck V-8. Not what a Buick used to be to me.
The new one due out in Dec and then Mar will take an additional 200K units from the detroiters somewhere. Ram? F150? GM? All three will lose some units. Which is most vulnerable?
I am not sure how one could dodge the rules and get a Canadian car into the US...lots of cool grey market imports in BC, as the restriction is 15 years, not 500 years or whatever people are blessed with south of the border
Well, it's done all the time, fin... Not a huge deal if you put them through the DOT inspection - some need a speedo conversion, many these days don't. You use that funky kph thingy up there ya know..... I've bought several Canadian cars at the auction for friends - trucks mainly.
Engines available: 5.7-liter i-Force V8, 4.0-liter V6 and the legendary 4.7-liter i-Force V8
Here are some pictures:
Looks like a worthy Ram fighter to me
Of course, I'm an oddball.....I realize the rest of y'all aren't like me....
I was talking about grey market imports that are kosher in Canada but not here. You can go to Van and on any given day see a Skyline or a Honda Beat or a Toyota Century or a Euro model E class etc...those are the ones that wouldn't find a home to the south.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
-Loren
> It is also in the refrigerator section
> in Safeway super markets.
It's the latter part that bothers me about its name. Would you like to drive a supposedly executive car that's named like cheap cheese? :surprise:
LaCrosse, too, just doesn't feel right. Especially with its sporting connotations. It doesn't sound athletic. And how big is the lacrosse scene these days anyway? It's not exactly a prominent sport, but then, there couldn't be a Buick Football.
I don't understand why people moan about Buick's new names. Buick has always had mock-pretentious names (Riviera? LeSabre? Park Avenue?), and the new ones don't even sound that different (LaCrosse-LeSabre, for example). I think the main reason for the change was because the names were getting such a bad stigma. The LeSabre was the pensioner-express, the Century was a cheapo rental car.
Think, back in the late 80's/early 90's, the Reatta was pitched as a halo car, and I hear it could have had a much more interesting/premium engine than the 3800. But, of course, GM executives shot that down and the justification was that "Buick was seeking an older, more mature demographic". Look where that got them. Ten years down the track, Buick was trying to shed its image and make itself more appealing to younger people.
Another example of a lack of hindsight in 80's GM management.
Still hate the Lucerne name, and hate LaCrosse even more. The Styling of the LaCross is less objectionable to me, but also unremarkable to be sure. The LaCrosse that impressed the heck out of me was the Asian version they're selling in China. If they brought that one here - they would remake Buick in one year!!!
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
If you have already seen this comparison please ignore it.
Honda Accord V6:
US: $29,211 (including 7% sales tax)
Taiwan: $32,697 (including sales tax)
Difference: 89%
Toyota Camry V6:
US: $29,446 (including 7% sales tax)
Taiwan: $33,909 (including sales tax)
Difference: 87%
Honda Civic EX:
US: $19,752 (including 7% sales tax)
Taiwan: $21,182 (including sales tax)
Difference: 93%
Toyota Corolla:
US: $19,131 (including 7% sales tax)
Taiwan: $21,485 (including sales tax)
Difference: 89%
BTW, all the above models are being assembled locally, as well as the Asian LaCrosse.
By looking at the treand we can see that the US auto prices are about 10% less than the prices in Asian. To be precise let's take the average of the 4 differences and that gives us: 89.5%.
So given that let's assume the Asian LaCrosse's local MSRP is about 35,000 USD (let's not including that backseat entertainment system). 89.5% of the 35,000 USD gives us 31,325 USD (this number includes the 7% sales tax). So without the sales tax the MSRP of the Asian LaCrosse here in the NA market should come up to be: 29,133 USD.
Give that the US version LaCrosse CXS is listed at 27,990 I'll say the Asian LaCrosse should do pretty well if GM decides to market them here in NA.
By pricing it around 28,500 USD I'll say this is a pretty good Lexus ES fighter.
Yeah but since they all speak French, Italian or German, depending on where you are, it's easy to forget there is a country called Switzerland
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Looks like this Mercedes would be a giant Porsche 911
if you humped the back and it flowed without interruption
all the way to the rear. It's getting there :surprise: If ya
really think about it, the design while pleasing enough, is
somewhat all too easy. Yeah, a swoopy car must look
arched front to back. The designer takes out pencil and
draws up a double arched lines of roof and door line and
well ya got it. Whoopie! $65K ??? Don't know anything
about the dynamics of the car, and don't really care, as
that amount of money for a car is out of my league. And
I may add, there are wonderful cars for half that amount
which I would consider, even if I had the big bucks. And
for reliability? Kinda sad when Hyundai kicks your butt.
-Loren
How can you even mention the two brands in the same breath? I got stuck with an Accent as a loaner for a few hours. Then I drove my sister's new Tiburon all over Phoenix. I would not give a penny for either vehicle. Pure Junk. I don't care if they had a million mile warranty. I would rather have an E320 CDI in the shop twice a week as to be stuck driving a Hyundai for a day.
Hyundai
OK, a building of a reputation for reliability and a warranty to assure the customer they will repair the car if it is not correct.
-Loren
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2018 430i Gran Coupe
And yes I pocketed the difference.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
My sister loves the car. So I did not say anything to her. It was rough riding, very uncomfortable drivers seat. And my foot cramped up from a very odd accelerator pedal angle.
I went shopping in the little tinny Accent loaner while they were doing the 5000 mile service on my Passat. Horrible ride, noisy uneven braking & the trunk lid hits the antenna when you close it. I had to hold the antenna to the side when closing the trunk or it would have broken it off. Why would I consider driving any other Hyundai after that?
Odds are we probably will not buy a Mercedes unless they get their act together on their diesels. In fact I do not see myself buying any new car or truck that is not diesel.
The whole MB reliability thing should be aimed at the entry level cars that should have come in under one of the Chrysler names instead of Mercedes.
Mercedes sales are up this year, while both Camry & Accord are down compared to last year. The "S" & "E" are both doing quite well. In fact the San Diego MB dealer I visited was much busier than the two Toyota dealers I visited a week ago.
PS
We do have a Lexus from a time long ago when they were good looking.
I can agree with MB offering a big warranty...people claim the troubled days are over, let's see it. I've heard nothing but good about the new S so far. I doubt MB will jump on it though...it won't sell. Most people who buy these things new seem to get rid of them by the time they hit 5 years old anyway - gotta keep up with the latest model and all.
Agreed. All luxury brands would sell better(to people like me at least) with the long warranties. Most luxury buyers don't have to pinch pennies and don't worry about unexpected costs. However there are a lot of people like me that would spend the $40,000 to $50,000 or even higher if they knew the car would last them trouble free for 5 years and 100,000 miles. Many car makers do this to "buy into" the market (Hyundai), some do it like Chrysler did to get confidence back. I'm guessing the Germans would go broke.
Not too many cars dead on the road these days. I do recall the old days of the 60's when cars still bit the dust quite often. I heard that the 50's were more so. Go back to the 40's a earlier years, it was very common to end the day hitched to a tow truck.
To answer the question set forward on this forum of whom will make the next car sell, I say what ever car is best for me at the time. Will buy what I can afford, while providing the best value, longevity, fun, and looks. Maybe it will be an American Hyundai, Honda or Toyota, or a US/Canadian/Mexican/German, Ford, or GM. Kinda funny how things are backwards looking now.
-Loren
I think everybody here needs to be honest. There is no way to compare the quality of a MB with a Tiburon.
However there is a BIG difference in QUALITY and RELIABILITY. MB's are put together very well and they sound and feel solid. However they and most other European cars are not all that reliable. If the Germans had outsourced their electronics to the Japanese they would have an unbeatable combination. The way it is though BMW's,MB's and Audis are selling on style and past reputation. Unless they clean up their act they will miss selling to the GenX and Millenium's generations ho are buying Scions and other japanese cars (who eventually will trade up - Lexus, Infiniti, Acura's...)
I know what ya mean, gagrice - however, I chose to go the route in between - with the Lexus. One can have the bets of both worlds with a GS430 maybe?
Reliability issues. Which cars have serious problems, vs less worrisome glitches. It appears VWs have had some real issues for some years now.
-Loren
I don't know. I think cars like the Lexus IS series have cheapened the brand. The GS looks like a Camry with fancy trim. I could like the LS430 I think. To tell the truth the only reason my wife wanted to trade her 1990 LS400 on a new Lexus was to get a CD player and XM radio. The LS400 runs like new, with only 84k miles. Not a scratch on the original paint. Always in the garage when not being driven. We went down and looked at all the new Lexus. The only one she liked was the LX470. Her step daughter has a pearl white one and she likes it. Her biggest complaint with all the Lexus cars is visibility. She could not believe that the IS250 was really a Lexus. Her comment "What is Lexus thinking building that little car?". I have to agree. Same goes for all the cheapo Mercedes that have dragged MB down.
So, to use the same thought process...you think cars like the 3-series have also cheapened the BMW brand as well? BTW, in case you haven't figure it out yet, currently IS350 is the best performance sedan in the Lexus lineup. I might agree with you that the last generation IS is not up to the Lexus standard (but boy that's one great handling car) but to say the current generation IS has cheapened the brand is absolutely bogus (regardless of IMO or not).
To tell the truth the only reason my wife wanted to trade her 1990 LS400 on a new Lexus was to get a CD player and XM radio
You can get that done in either Bestbuy or CircuitCity, oh BTW, they do free installations.
The GS looks like a Camry with fancy trim
If you meant the ES then I agree with you but GS...come on. The GS has a different chasis, also it's a RWD comparing to Camry's FWD, how in the world is that a Camry with fancy trim???
She could not believe that the IS250 was really a Lexus. Her comment "What is Lexus thinking building that little car?"
Little car? It's about the same size as the BMW 3-series, MB C-class and the Infiniti G. In case you haven't figure it out yet, the entry-luxury class is the best seller for most of the luxury brands so if Lexus wants to gain more market share they'll have to be competitive within this segment. That, my friend is why Lexus is building "little" cars like the IS250/350.
Last but not least, Lexus is not the same now as in 1990 when your wife purchased the LS400. Back then Lexus needed a car loaded with goodies with about the same size as the S-class and 7-series but half the price to establish the brand and that's how the LS400 came along. Now Lexus is the best-selling luxury brand in US so it needs a full lineup in order to stay competitive. While Lexus is building "little" cars like the IS and ES they still haven't forget the one that makes them what they are today - The LS.
Check this out:
:shades: