Stories from the Sales Frontlines

jescue · November 2007

There is no way I could pitch Nitrogen with a straight face. It may be great, but really. Someone will start flushing radiators with Evian next.

obyone · November 2007

Answer

:shades:

qbrozen · November 2007

sooo... you've gone from "a car that we aren't discounting much" to $1100 under cost????

And your dealership is still in business?

seeee... now you know I'm not one to pull this card ... like ever ... but I gotta do it ... THIS is why it is impossible to tell a "real" deal from a fake in the prices paid forum AND why so many folks always seem to feel uneasy about just what a "good deal" is.

chikoo · November 2007

even I no better than that

are trying hard to reel me in? :confuse:

It should be "know", not "no". right?

british_rover · November 2007

You are about a month too late.

Already got it

robr2 · November 2007

Yeah Rovers are coming with Nitrogen filled tires from the factory now. Our mastertech calculated out how much it costs us to fill up a big 19 inch Range Rover tire with nitrogen and it was a lot less then 149 dollars divided by four. I think he said between 7 and 9 dollars a tire.

And since they probably overinflate them by 25% to prevent flat spotting on the boat your tech is letting that $7-9 dollars of nitrogen out of the four tires.

Perhaps you could redirect that nitrogen into your coffee bar in the showroom - there must be some health benefits to breathing nitrogen.

british_rover · November 2007

Probably not 7-9 bucks worth but close to that for the correct tire pressure after PDI.

He was figuring out how much it would cost to fill up tires with nitrogen when they changed tires on the vehicle.

imidazol97 · November 2007

> - there must be some health benefits to breathing nitrogen.

There are. You're breathing it right now-78%. There's absolutely no advantage for auto tires. The use is for truck tires from what I could read on the internet last year. Where they use the skins over and over by retreading, using pure N2 slows deterioration of the rubber for hundreds of thousands of miles of use. Most people don't use their auto tires over 40-50K miles. By that time if you drive low miles per year, the rubber has hardened in the tread and it's time to replace them if you want optimum grip.

Guess we can call N2 inflation, Huff and Puff.

lrguy44 · November 2007

Actually, it is the aircraft industry that started using Nitrogen in the tires - less loss, longer tire life

fezo · November 2007

Yes, but it's the car industry that got us to, "well, we normally put nitrogen in the tires for $149, but since you only want 78% nitrogen we'll let that go for $116.22."

imidazol97 · November 2007

>we normally put nitrogen in the tires for $149,

I'll take mine without, thanks.

Reminds me of the 80s when the dealers put on plastic pinstripes for $100, sprayed 3M on the seats and carpet for $150, and put a wax on the paint for $250 and told you what a good deal they were giving you. I recall visiting a car lot owned by a major league baseball owner where there was that and something else on the car for around $600--cars cost a lot less than.

roadburner · November 2007

That makes me laugh though. What the hell was he thinking? Note to self: best to include your wife in decisions that include a commitment and money.

Back in the summer we were remodeling our kitchen and my wife wanted to install a double convection oven. On another mail list I asked about the best oven brands and one guy opined that she probably didn't need a double oven. I replied:

"my wife doesn't ask why I want a 263hp 155 mph car to drive to work, and I'm not asking her why she needs a double oven. Hell, I don't care if she gets a triple oven."

Communication is VERY important in a marriage...

mattgg1 · November 2007

Mackabee -

In your story you say the Prius deal is "like $1500.00 under cost." Even with the $400 doc fee added, it is still $1100 under cost.

Explain to me why you would sell a seemingly popular new car for an $1100 "loss"????

My guess is that it's not really a loss. I'm sure once everything factored in (holdback, incentives, ect.), it was not nearly a $1000 loser.

jmonroe · November 2007

Our mastertech calculated out how much it costs us to fill up a big 19 inch Range Rover tire with nitrogen and it was a lot less then 149 dollars divided by four.

I think he said between 7 and 9 dollars a tire.

Rover:

This must be 7 to 9 dollars per vehicle, if not, do your master tech a favor and buy him some fresh batteries for his calculator. Either that or your dealership is paying waaaay too much for bottled Nitrogen from your bottled gas supplier. I just asked the lab manager at the other end of the building where I am now doing some consulting work, how much it would cost to fill a 20 inch tire with Nitrogen and he said he didnt want to do another calculation because about a year ago when some of the young car geek techs wanted to fill their tires with Nitrogen and, were willing to pay for it, (which according to company policy is not permitted) just for the fun of it he did a calculation for an 18 inch tire and the cost was something like 77 cents per tire if he remembered correctly.

Now I will admit that they go through bottled Nitrogen like water back there (they use it in production and to dry everything that may contain moisture and get a good price on that stuff), but still, your techs numbers are pretty high.

FWIW, tell him not to round off his calculation using an almost 30% percent tolerance. The real world could never live with something like that.

jmonroe

chikoo · November 2007

Now we go out on the edge and still some people complain it's too bland. Go figure!

Bland, because they were inspired by another brand which introduced the design lines in 2003. 4 years later Toyota comes out with the camry. Yeah, not cutting edge. simply following a successful design.

british_rover · November 2007

Now I will admit that they go through bottled Nitrogen like water back there (they use it in production and to dry everything that may contain moisture and get a good price on that stuf

I think you answered your own question there.

jmonroe · November 2007

are trying hard to reel me in? :confuse:

It should be "know", not "no". right?

Didn't I? Just wanted to see if you were paying attention. :P

jmonroe

chikoo · November 2007

You can tell a tire with nitrogen by the green valve caps. That tells the service tech to use the expensive hose reel!!

Green = Dollars :shades:

jmonroe · November 2007

I think you answered your own question there.

Nobody could pay as much as your tech calculated.

Don't believe me. Call a bottled gas supplier and ask for the price of one bottle. It won't cost 7 to 9 dollars to do a tire.

He was probably marking up the cost like service departments always do, even to their own sales department.

You guys in the biz taught us that.

jmonroe

british_rover · November 2007

And I think you are just trying to stir the pot again so why don't you drop it before we get some deletions in here again.

I mean seriously do you have to argue about everything? This has to be the the stupidest argument I have ever seen on this thread. When I saw the new tires with the nitrogen I asked him how much extra that was going to cost when they change tires.

He replied with ohh such and such for the biggest Range Rover tires and such and such for the smaller ones on the LR2. I figured it out when we called the big tire supplier place yesterday. We haven't done any yet though so once we fill up the first ones we can make some adjustments to the prices.

Now lets drop it before I get all most posts deleted again OK.

chikoo · November 2007

I guess I am paying attention. I just don't speak up that much.

epiney · November 2007

Gotta agree with JM on this one. I can't believe that anyone could try to sell it with a straight face for $149 :surprise:

In a former life, I used to make the stuff in a cryogenic air separation plant. Measured output by the ton!

greanpea68 · November 2007

As for nitrogen I have seen dealers up New Hampshire put ADM's on for the Nitrogen but they were only charging $49 for it. I was surprised or maybe I missed it but the main selling factor up here in New Engalnd for Nitrogen is that when it is used in the winter time it slows down the process for tires loosing air. Every 10 degrees the tempature changes you loose one PSI, which I am sure the engineers already know. Other than that factor I wouldn't see any other reason for using nitrogen. I know we don't sell that here.

On a side note my service department doesn't even want to deal with any tires filled with nitrogen because of a fear that it will explode. Who knows???

GP

british_rover · November 2007

Nitrogen is an inert gas why are they worried it will explode? It is not any more dangerous to have around then any other compressed gas.

I might put nitrogen in the tires of my wife's jeep as one tire has a slow leak that I just can't get rid of. I replaced the valve stem and had the tire removed so they could clean any corrosion around the rim but it still leaks about 10-15 lbs of air out a month during the winter. In the summer it is not bad but it leaks out fast during the winter. I probably should just replace the tire but it still has a solid 25,000 miles of tread left on it.

lrguy44 · November 2007

Nitrogen is an inert noncombustable nonexplosive gas. It can be used to put out a fire (displaces O2).

lrguy44 · November 2007

And in a former life I spent 14 years selling the stuff, in bulk - mainly in heat treating and crygenic applications.

jmonroe · November 2007

And I think you are just trying to stir the pot again so why don't you drop it before we get some deletions in here again.

I'm not stirring anything. I'm only throwing out facts. If facts are tough to live with you can't throw out erroneous figures and expect them to go unchallenged. Note that I didn't say you did the erroneous calculating but you were the messenger.

Now lets drop it before I get all most posts deleted again OK.

OK, that a deal. Now you can go talk with 'epiney' (post 20475). He can't understand this either.

jmonroe

jmonroe · November 2007

And in a former life I spent 14 years selling the stuff, in bulk - mainly in heat treating and crygenic applications.

AND

jmonroe

carhag2000 · November 2007

Something interesting happened to me today. My dealership is in Athens Ohio. I got a call from a man in Chicago today who was interested in a used Porsche Cayenne S today. He has a 2006 Lincoln MK LT 4X4 to trade. After a few obligatory negotiations on price and trade he agrees. Now for the cool part. I am getting up at 5 tomorrow on my day off to drive 250 miles to Indiana to meet him and sell the car. Didnt have much planned for tomorrow so it should be an interesting day off.

Anyway I will be passing through Indy around 7:30 or so, so if anyone is in indy please wave when I come past!

greanpea68 · November 2007

I don't know why they say that. I learned a long time ago not argue with my service department. :sick: I never win :mad: i just remeber I had a customer a couple months back who's tire pressure monitor light was stuck on. I told the service mngr that a independent shop told him to put in the Nitro. My service mngr didn't want anything to do with it. He said he didn't want to be resonsible if anything happened. And I quote " What if it explodes the building?" ... I just said OK... walked up to the GM's office and told him the situation. He said get the customer in and everything was magically taken care of. I just don't understand my service dept sometimes :confuse:

They are definatley there own entity

greanpea68 · November 2007

Anyway I will be passing through Indy around 7:30 or so, so if anyone is in indy please wave when I come past!

When you go through indy could you do me a favor and drop off some cheese and crackers so Manning doesn't have to go to the grocery store Sunday evening. :P I'm sure he will need them.

GP

lrguy44 · November 2007

AND

read 20475 - OK?

imidazol97 · November 2007

I'll stand on an overpass along I70 near Dayton about 6:00 AM and wave to you. Is Indianapolis the midpoint or are you driving the whole way!

carhag2000 · November 2007

Just north of Indy. I will be in the blue cayenne. and still asleep.

lrguy44 · November 2007

I'll call my daughter who lives just Northeast of Indy and tell her to have breakfast ready for you

mackabee · November 2007

Unfortunately the store I work for does that to every new car that comes in whether straight from the distributor or dealer exchange. It's also pre-printed on the first pencil offers.

I always tell the SM'S take it off before I show the offer to my customers. I feel it's insulting.

Mackaee

epiney · November 2007

I was surprised or maybe I missed it but the main selling factor up here in New Engalnd for Nitrogen is that when it is used in the winter time it slows down the process for tires loosing air. Every 10 degrees the tempature changes you loose one PSI, which I am sure the engineers already know.

It's been over 15 years since I did any real engineering, so maybe JM can help me here, but I would think that any difference in pressure change with temperature difference would be negligible. The variation in must people's 4 tires is probably larger.

Your service guys must be confused with pure oxygen. :P Pure oxygen can spontaneously combust. There were a few fatal accidents with either dirty (oily) pipes or too high differential in pressure in pielines leading to explosions.

obyone · November 2007

FREE nitrogen with every new tire.

kyfdx · November 2007

A lot of tire dealers include nitrogen inflation at no extra charge...

$149 extra? :surprise:

mackabee · November 2007

To get it over with? I personally wouldn't sell this car cheap. Our internet/business development department slings stoooooopid prices to get customers in the door. Pretty sad really as it takes money out of our floor sales folks when we up the customer and have to sell the car for that price and it ends up in a marathon deal for mini.

Mackabee

mackabee · November 2007

Sure it's a loss. Even figuring in holdback and finacial reserve it's a negative deal. She also paid cash for the car and didn't buy any after market or extended warranties.
:shades:

snakeweasel · November 2007

Is this you then?

jmonroe · November 2007

read 20475 - OK?

I did and this is it:

In a former life, I used to make the stuff in a cryogenic air separation plant. Measured output by the ton!

The accurate implication here is: Nitrogen just aint that expensive if you can make this much of it day in and day out and sell it as fast as you can make it.

In post 20479 you said:

And in a former life I spent 14 years selling the stuff, in bulk - mainly in heat treating and crygenic applications.

So, I was expecting a real comment like: a passenger car tire filled with Nitrogen couldnt cost anywhere near 7 or 9 dollars". Not a sales story on the subject.

jmonroe

snakeweasel · November 2007

I think he said between 7 and 9 dollars a tire.

Gee air is free at the gas station.

chikoo · November 2007

Water is also free at the water cooler.

I wonder why Aquafina makes so much money :P

jmonroe · November 2007

FREE nitrogen with every new tire.

C'mon don't fall for that. They have to be over charging for the rubber.

jmonroe

jmonroe · November 2007

I wonder why Aquafina makes so much money

You said this just to set me off, didn't you?

jmonroe

chikoo · November 2007

and how?

mackabee · November 2007

Which gas station would that be? All the gas shops around here have the pumps you have to feed quarters to. 4 of them to be exact for 4 minutes of air pressure.

Mackabee

jipster · November 2007

Gee air is free at the gas station

Not all gas stations, some try to charge you for it. Fifty cents for the first 3 3/4 tires... then another 50 cents to finish the job. :sick:

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