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Comments
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
1. Let's say manufacturers. It is reasonable to expect it cost Toyota about $15K to make it and $18K to sell it to the dealer. Port lots are full, so let's just put 8 grand incentive and it will all move, is that what you are saying? So they pocket 10 grand rather than 18, next thing you know they can't get financing for their payroll, next batch of parts. Not gonna happen.
2. Let's say it's dealers. They bought it from the Toyota for 18K, trying to sell it for 20K. Can't. They sell it for 10K, which means they put 8K out of their pockets. Next thing, they can't get a loan for a payroll, can't pay their utilities and they are $8K in the hole with the bank who financed that inventory. Not gonna happen.
Now you say - but it doesn't sell. So what? What else is there to do other than wait? So you say - but it costs them to keep it on the lot. OK, $18K loan at 3-3.5% APR is $550-$600/year.
Why in the world would you put half off on something that costs you only six hundred bucks to keep? Do you understand what I'm saying? Where is incentive for them to sell it at half off? I can tell you - if I owned the business I would sell it half off just because it doesn't sell. Makes no sense whatsoever. Only during a liquidation of the business.
Half off is viable in used car market, where the acquisition price can also be cut in half as well. New car market - see above.
Just because something doesn't sell is not good enough reason to accept loss on high-ticket items. How many home owners don't sell their houses because they can't even pay their bank back? Why should dealers do that if nobody else can?
2018 430i Gran Coupe
This is called window shopping and I usually do it on Sunday afternoons when the dealership is closed, but occasionally I will go when they are open even though I have no intention of buying a car on that day. Maybe to pick up a brochure on a new model or simply to get a feel with what type of vibes I get from the dealership.
Most salespeople I run into don't have a problem with this "window shopping" and recognize that it is indeed a step in the buying process. For all these years I have not realized that I have been annoying the salespeople but from listening to you guys I guess I have.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
I've gotcha. I would fall into this category so it's hard for me to envision someone who would bother to make a generic inquiry. I mean, what's the point? If I were to inquire about something, it would be because I am interested in VIN xxxxx253415, white with tan leather, stock # B1542 that appears in your inventory. "Is it still available and what will you sell it for?" If I don't like what I hear, I will move on to the next guy showing a white with tan leather in stock..... which is why get totally annoyed when a dealer spends a fortune running a flashy website but does not show new inventory online.
A good example of a flashy but worthless website
Why open a can of worms with these people if I can't see if they have anything that I want?
Is that like saying, "I don't think we burned the steak. We just cooked it well done."?
Richard
Why is it so hard to put it out there, especially that most have them computerised already? :confuse: I simply don't get it. Do they assume that everybody buying $30K+ vehicle is some computer illiterate who wouldn't know how to browse websites? I understand that "personal service" thing they would like you believe in, but we are in fact almost full decade in 21st century. One would expect that they would recognize some people with money would actually prefer to see it on the screen before they even pick up the phone. I would also think that if anybody, it's a luxury buyer who should be particular about the configuration - so they can peek into the inventory and find out it there is anything even close to what they like or not.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
I would also think that if anybody, it's a luxury buyer who should be particular about the configuration - so they can peek into the inventory and find out it there is anything even close to what they like or not.
I agree 100% with your post. I've noticed the same thing. At best you get a vague list of CPO's which often don't match what the actual dealer has posted online.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Whether I agree with you or not, I shouldn't have singled you out. That was stupid. I do apologize for it. If I can't practice what I preach, then I am no positive example for my young teachers.
I'm sending you one IOU for one smack across the lips. :P
Richard
Yes I instruct at BMW Car Club of America driving schools. However, we aren't the only game in town- just the best...
Kart racing isn't all that dangerous either, my kid has been tooling around on this track since he was 7 or 8:
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
I'd like to announce that anyone employed at Edmunds making over minimum wage is a social outrage, and a pox on the public trust.
Edmunds will write crappy reviews on domestics, then when they start to go out of business write op ed pieces on why we have to do all we can to keep them in business.
Business is business and we all like to " make what the market will bare", until it's someone else, and then we like to get "all moral on some ones behind".
I wish I knew. I guess they prefer that you get the decoder ring and the treasure map from the back of the Cap'n Crunch box to gain admittance to the secret warehouse where they will unveil them one by one. For all the talk of not wanting to waste time, it sure looks like a recipe to do just that. Once you get in there and you are deemed worthy, I suppose they will try to get what you want out of another dealer's secret stash....at an additional expense, naturally.
That's very nice of you, but completely unnecessary. We're on a forum that encourages opinions and I'm happy to hear yours.
If I was a teenager, I might agree with you. I think I've reached an age where I can stand a little criticism.
So, I'm always happy to hear your opinions and don't worry about putting on the kid gloves. We won't always agree. And that's okay.
I have no problem providing internet quotes, I do this ten times a day. I have found that a simple price quote will still leave many questions unanswered.
As I stated, in the last six months my closing percentage of people who provide false or inaccurate information is ZERO! I'm just done wasting my time with them.
Oh yeah, if someone says, "Email only", I respect their wishes with a note in the price quote that reads, "I will be calling to make sure this information found you in a timely manner and to answer any additional questions you may have".
2018 430i Gran Coupe
So what do we do to change the public perception of us, because I can tell you right now, the majority of people that I come in contact with on the internet are much more disrespectful of me right off the bat than the people that come in off the street.
I can tell you that another company does our online new car inventory, and they don't do a very good job.
I can tell you that we in the internet dept have enough to do with making sure there are pictures of pre-owned cars, answering email leads within 10 minutes, and trying to deal with appointments to make sure every new car is in inverntory.
As a salesman, it's my job to put you in the car you want, [or the car you'll buy] so if I don't have it, I can probably get it. That may not answer your question, but I really don't have a good answer. Sorry.
On this board?! Are you kidding? Most posters would not consider that they were the ones being referred to in the post.
Richard
I understand your point here. If they don't know what a DX is, then they are not good candidates for doing e-business IMO. They are the folks that need a good salesman to present things in a traditional way. These folks just complicate it and clog the system for those of us who know what a LX-P has versus the EX-L.
I have no problem providing internet quotes, I do this ten times a day.
Good. I'm glad to know there's not some movement away from this practice.
As I stated, in the last six months my closing percentage of people who provide false or inaccurate information is ZERO! I'm just done wasting my time with them.
I don't blame you at all for this. If they are not serious enough to provide accurate information, I wouldn't bother to jump through hoops either.
I've been 4-squared many times, but not like recently. When we were looking at options, we tried out a Lincoln. The salesman then commenced to 4-square me. He wanted me to sign a BLANK four square to show faith that if the figures were correct, I would buy today. I am not about to sign any BLANK document! Put some figures on it and I'll sign if I am committed.
When we bought the convertible Monday, I was 4-squared. My sales guy never once suggested that I sign it. We just worked on the figures TOGETHER. I felt that I was at least a part of the process.
This reminds me of a lawyer last year. My wife's old maid aunt left my wife a 300 acre farm in Georgia. The attorney sent my wife a bunch of papers with blanks. He wrote, "Just sign where indicated and I'll fill in the blanks later." Come to find out that he and my wife's brother had concocted a little plan to keep a few acres for themselves. Now just what cabbage truck did he figure we had fallen off of?
Richard
Figure out what the best price/deal is for you. Offer that with your hand out ready to do business. The best price is subjective, and is like trying to hit a moving target.
For instance, the best price on an A4 that I've ever seen, is right about $500.00 below invoice. It was a mistake on my part from my poor math, and to save face, my manager honored the deal. But we aren't here to lose money on a car. You have to be educated enough to know if the car your looking at is a mass produced model available at every dealership. At that point, you can look at numerous sights [like this one here] to get an idea of what invoice is, and what any manufacturer incentives are. Figure that out, and then go offer it.
On a Honda Civic maybe $100.00 over what invoice is, minus any manufacturer incentives. Tell them you will recommend them to everyone you know, and are guaranteeing the salesman a 100% survey.
The trick to getting a good deal is to know what a good deal is to begin with. If you don't know, then either except what we say is a good deal, or figure it out for yourself.
The other part of the trick is, wait for it.........be a happy customer. No one wants to sell a car for a mini [$100.00] only for you to give them a bad survey, and then they lose money. Enjoy the process and have fun. Be respectful, and fairly easy going.
If you feel as though you are not being treated respectfully, walk away. It's a two way street. By asking for the best price you are saying to every car salesman out there " I don't know what I'm doing" I know it's not what consumers want to hear, but it's the truth. Making the first offer that's skinny, but fair, and being respectful will get you farther than you ever thought.
Remember, your feet are your best asset. Walk away from a dealer that is rude. or disrespectful......
Class dismissed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BTW, the prices was pretty much invoice plus retail on the accessories.
I bought my first new car in 2003 (WRX). I sent internet quote inquiries to three dealers. They were responsive, honest and quick to give me real quotes. I had three quotes in my hands after three days - bought the car that weekend. Final decision was based on the trade offer, which of course required personal visit. Everybody was friendly (so was I) and there was not reason to yell or be hostile. It could be done - takes a little effort on all parts.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
I think it’s very interesting that all the non-biz guys here (except for one, I think) don’t feel that a phone call to a dealership to ask a question of a salesman is a big deal. Now we have all gotten an education.
Let me add a little more to the tale I already told:
When I bought in 06’ I dealt with a very straight forward salesman. He mentioned at that time that since he was an old coot he planned on retiring at about the same time (April) of the following year. Darn if he didn’t pull it off because the following April I got a letter and a card from the guy who would be replacing him. The letter that came with the card said to call anytime I had a question regardless of what the issue was and that guy would take care of me. I never transferred his card to the new wallet I now have (just plum wore out that old one with the heavy load of Franklin’s that I made it carry all the time
I remember the salesman that sold me in 06’ gave me his card and told me the same thing (call ANYTIME with ANY question) so who was I to doubt he was serious. In fact, I did call him once about the very same subject (the dreaded doc fee) when this subject raised it’s ugly head right here back in 06’. Isn’t it amazing how we keep reliving this thing from time to time? At the time I called him I’m the one that had to end the call because he wanted to keep going on about how this fee originally took hold in PA and was starting to repeat himself. It sure didn’t come across to me that I was prying during that call and when the conversation ended he said CALL AGAIN ANYTIME WITH ANY QUESTION.
Could it be that this guy was putting me on? :confuse:
OK, I think I’m done with this subject now. So everyone can now relax.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
In addition to what golic provided, allow me to increase your knowledge base of the new word. "Chooch" also refers to a part of the female anatomy that lies below the waist. It also applies to certain baby foods and certain creams for skin conditions.
Just so inquiring minds will know.
Richard
From reading GG's post, I think he felt it was too little too late. Too many hoops, too much grief. The dealership left a bad taste in his mouth. At that point, it wasn't about the $300. It was about principle. They tried to put a fast one on him, he balked, and they gave him the run around.
I think he would've bought if they drop the $300 right away.
And seriously, $300 to drive a car 20 miles across town? I hate to see what their doc fee is :sick:
I don't mean to be on the defense, but I'm really tired of being the viewed as the "low life" trying to take advantage of consumers. A lot of what happens in a dealership is totally nesseccary. And, we have families too.
Really? Under Car finder I could seach by Make, Model, Trim, Mileage, Year, Price range, Color, and body style.
I randomly picked some criteria and got a nine cars back (sedans, less than 25K miles). They all had VINs, stock #'s, price, miles, a bunch of info, and most had at least 10 pictures.
They even said the price already includes the $249 doc fee. I just saved jmonroe a phone call.
I thought it was pretty good.
Why do we have to be the bad guys...all the time.
The "invisible" decals show up under a police department's black lights in order for the car to be traced back to the owner and to prove that a theft has taken place. At least this is my understanding. After all, VIN numbers can be taken off of cars. The charge for this fee was $148. I asked if I had to pay it. The F&I lady said that she was not sure, but that no one had challenged it before.
I swallowed the $148 + the $389 for the doc fee. That's a total of $537. Let me tell you why. My OTD deal was done. Those two fees did not change that at all. This dealer had bent over backward to get my business. Remember the free gap insurance? I would have purchased that insurance regardless---a $300-$700 value. If the deal had been marginal, I would have raised hell over the DataDots and also tried to split the doc fee. With my OTD price, I don't care if they had bought steak dinners for the entire staff---since it did not change the figures. I did find it interesting that they didn't ask me about the DataDots first---as they usually do with the "Mop & Glo" items. I guess the poor dealer figured that he had to make a little profit at some point. The DataDots and the doc fee gave some profit plus he probably got a great buy on the program car that I purchased.
I'm happy for him if he did. I'm happy for myself because I got what I wanted at a price that was beyond what I really had expected. I'll be watching his lot in the days ahead. I want to see how long my lemon stays on the lot.
Richard
If you are talking about me, I don't think it's a big deal to call a dealership for a question about a doc. fee. If the dealerships system, for taking calls, is so ridiculous that a call for simple information is treated as an up... well then that's their problem. The "choochie" calls eventaully even out amoung the sales people anyhow. If you're concerned about a sales person losing an up, then call the salesmanager as I suggested in my prior post. Seems he would be the appropriate person to call for such info in the first place.
Where do you work? Let's say you work at Sear's. You sell washers and dryers. I'm all over there, with your boss looking, making you look stupid by running u all around. Making you do all this stuff. And then I say "thanks, have a good day, I wanna think about it". How would that make you feel? How does that make you look in front of the people you work for? Can you buy a hamburger with that?
I was referring to NEW cars. The preowned search is just fine. Why hide the new inventory? If I were looking for a Borealis blue Acura TL with taupe interior, I would want to know that they have one before I get overly involved with the wrong dealership.
And, yes I'm bored today, and yes I'm firey hot today
I understand. I was just thinking about when you gave me your opinions on color and the GM. I must say that I am proud of you for one thing. You remembered the color combination of the Chrysler you sat in the other day. :P
Richard
Even during strong sales years, a factory produced a few thousand vehicles that were parked for a few days before being shipped out. Maybe 3 of those photos are current, like the cars parked on the test track. Otherwise the holding lots always had thousands of cars before they were distributed.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Then don't do e-sales. Simply advertise.
Our store has two websites that I look after. One is Chrysler made, the other is made by our auto group.
I have 18-40 photos of each used car with the actual options. Most programs have VIN bursters that will automatically list options, but I found in many cases the info is incorrect. So I manually enter all the options.
For new cars, I took photos of every new car in our inventory, so you don't see a generic photo, but the actual car. I am now in the process of having between 20-40 photos for every new car we have. It's time consuming but I'm about halfway done.
The upkleep later is not so hard as long as there's someone dedicated in the dealership to look after this task.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
I'd like to announce that anyone employed at Edmunds making over minimum wage is a social outrage, and a pox on the public trust.
Nice comparison. I like to use wage comparisons when making a point. Like customer pitting a few dealers against each other over price, how would some people like if a job interviewer brings in 10 candidates and says they'll hire the one who'll work for the least amount of money, and get them to fight over it.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Not in the one case from where I got one from. Sewell Lexus in Dallas, TX.
Their list is maintained very well(up to date) and honor the exact price printed there.
http://www.sewelllexus-dallas.com/VehicleSearchResults?search=preowned&location=- &quickSearchId=6&modelNames=IS
I don't work as Sears, but I did buy a washing machine, dryer, and dishwasher, all at the same time three years ago. I went to local chain store, got a quote in salesman's OWN handwriting (including model numbers), then he TOLD ME to go and check it around. Of course nobody was even close and I was back the same day and bought it. Two months later they had a deeper discount on the dishwasher. They have three-month price own match policy, which meant they gave me back thirty bucks. Guess where I went when my microwave croaked.
So please - spare me rants about cheapskate liars. It's all about the attitude. If your price were trully as good as your screamer ad claims to be, you would have people lining up in front of your office. Truth is - it is not. It is about the same as the guy across town. Just say so and then we can focus on your service, whatever that really means.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
As for quotes, I think that some people give false information because they feel that if you call them, they will in some way "cave in" to a promise of some sort. I know it sounds strange, but some people do think that way. What they don't realize is that you can learn so much more from a personal conversation. Even using those little emotorcons on this site doesn't mean that our message is really understood at times.
Richard
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Provide real name, phone number, address, and lay out the plan:
I drove the vehicle, I know exactly what I want, I am buying within 1 week, if you don't have it in stock then I will buy elsewhere, or I don't mind waiting, or I don't mind a similar model. If your price/service/attitude/cleanliness of showroom is best, I will leave a deposit over the phone/in person and take delivery right away.
What won't get you best response over the internet:
I will buy within 2 to 6 months
I will take your price and shop it
If you're from out of town (then chances of you driving for 6 hours over $100 are unlikely)
I haven't driven the vehicle yet
I haven't even sat in the vehicle
I have money owing on my trade
I am still comparing brands
It's for my wife/husband/lover/mistress and I haven't old them about it yet
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX