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re 61309 - sort of undermines any previous apology
and 61312 is just patronizing
there are others, but I think you can grasp the drift..
- you continue to poke a hornet's nest, then wonder why they got you in their sights still. :bewildered:
lol....someone who appreciates good driving
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
For $5000 bucks it could be worth a try. That mileage seems pretty high...$about 170k, so that would probably put me off.
But, then again, to have to HCC for that price, it is tempting. I have a friend who has about the same mileage, his is older, and he loves it.
If you are serious, it is worth a test drive...if it is tight and passes a mechanical check I think it is worth considering.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I have no idea what test to do on a BMW.
I can tell a good Corvette from a bad one, but euro cars are entirely different.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
sort of undermines any previous apology
What undermines apologies is someone elses actions after the apology.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
What I believe you said originally was that you didn't need to drive a stick to be a top driver. The video was to show that a top driver (who knows if he is the best in the world) probably would know how to shift gears...how else can you do that?
SnakeBut I could still do that forklift job with no brakes and I could still move that backhoe without wheels.
I have no idea how you could say you could have done what Gimme described without having ever done it
Give me a chance and I could probably do that too, so what?
You have no idea whether you could do it, but you are sure you could. I have taught driving, I have driven taxis, I have travelled in sales to make a living...and I doubt I could have done what he described.
It still doesn't change the fact that this guy could drive circles around either you or me.
Here you are saying your friend is a much better driver (and can only drive an automatic) than you or gimme - whom you don't even know.
Then you are taking back your apology and calling me a jerk. We won't get into calling the guy at the stoplight a wimp...but I think it is time to call it quits. This is my last post on the whole subject.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Under the hood, look for rerouting of new(er) than stock wiring, or wires than run alongside OEM wiring harnesses.
Look for uniformity of the gaps around every door and body panel. Your eyes will pick up on paint differences too during that check.
that's a start for ya..
i too went wow, when I saw 170000 miles. If all by the same one owner, maybe not too much of a concern if car seems tight. Have someone follow you and see if it blows some oil smoke out exhaust on deceleration, a sign of worn valve guides (a 'possible' sign of infrequent oil changes). Another sign of that is to look in the oil fill and try to see rocker arms etc. and look for a carmel look to residue oil. There won't be any on a car that gets regular oil changes.
tons more to check, but being European the first test i mention is priority.
I am a poor judge of knowing what to look for in any used car. That's one reason I try to buy new...I had some good used cars but not too many. I imagine you would look for the same things you would in a Vette.
I would want to know the engine runs smooth, the transmission works smoothly (auto or stick), no squeaks, or loose feelings. But, I think it is worth it for a mechanic to look at it...it's too much money to invest without knowing it isn't burning oil or needs a costly repair.
I think, going to a Euro car for someone coming from a Vette, it would be a real thrill and make for some interesting posts.
ALSO, I JUST SAW GIMME GAVE YOU SOME TIPS. HE IS GOOD AT THIS STUFF SO I WOULD GO BY WHAT HE SAYS.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Excellent points and if mako looks into it further you should give him some more things to look for. Those are excellent.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I did say that and as someone pointed out that driver you showed wasn't exactly using a manual transmission.
I have no idea how you could say you could have done what Gimme described without having ever done it
I never said I haven't done it, of course I haven't said that I have either. That just means that you don't know if I have done it or something like it. I was going to point out some of the things I have done driving but the hostile attitude others have given me over this I just presumed that it would be claimed that I was making them up.
Here you are saying your friend is a much better driver
I did qualify the statement by saying probably.
Then you are taking back your apology and calling me a jerk.
Why shouldn't I seeing you apparently didn't accept it. I tried but well look at your response to it. Not exactly a high point for you.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
What undermines apologies is someone elses (or your own) actions after the apology.
Exactly! Now you got it!
And FWIW, I didn't ask you if you cared. We know you don't care or respect much of anyone or anything, said here.
If you want to talk about extending olive branches as a peace-keeping gesture, Richard attempted to smooth things over a few pages back in his (appreciated) diplomatic way that he has about him, when he said "Snake is really quite a nice guy, he must be as he drives the same kind of convertible as I do" or something to that affect..
I would think that you should not want to not pooh pooh the message he was putting out there since he was defending you, even if on skinny material. IMO
Go ahead, have last word..
However Richard was not a participant in this, Driver and I was. Richard had nothing to smooth over with either me or driver. I decided to take the high road but driver decided to stay on the low road. I turned the other cheek and had that one slapped. End of story.
Go ahead, have last word..
OK
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
My brother-in-law calls up the salesman he dealt with and after they exchange pleasantries and says: "Hey, my Dad loves my Jeep Grand Cherokee. He's going away to Aruba for 2 weeks and wants to buy one when he comes back. If you've got a demo you are looking to get rid of, he'll take it, regardless of color or options."
Salesman: "Sure, we'll hook him up no problem. Have him stop by when he gets back."
My brother-in-law's Dad comes home from vacation and heads straight to the Jeep dealer the next day. Comes home later that day with a brand new LIBERTY. My Brother-In-Law goes outside to check out Dad's new ride. He says to himself, well it isn't a Grand Cherokee and he says he got a killer deal, so as long as he's happy...
Sitting in the driver's seat for about a minute, he calls into the house: "DAD! Where's the four wheel drive lever!?"
So for those of you keeping score at home, my brother-in-law who bought and serviced his Jeep at a local dealer, sent the salesman he dealt with a referral who was his Dad to buy a Demo Grand Cherokee. The guy sold him a 2 WHEEL DRIVE LIBERTY! The whole purpose of buying an SUV in New York is because of their 4 WHEEL DRIVE CAPABILITIES. What were they doing with a 2WD Liberty in the1st place.
My brother-in-law calls the dealership calls the dealeship and asks for the salesman. "We're coming back down there now, you're going to take this EXPLETIVE back and sell my Dad a 4 wheel drive Grand Cherokee."
Salesman: "Spoke to my manager and we'll definitely buy the Liberty back for $5000 less than we sold it to your Dad for."
Brother-In-Law: "Please tell me you are joking."
Salesman: "Not joking, it is now a used car and there is no market for a 2 Wheel Drive Liberty here in New York. If he's not happy with his purchase or feels deceived, he can try and sue us."
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
My Brother-In-Law's father never asked about the 4 Wheel Drive System, but assumed that since it was an SUV, that it did have 4WD.
Even the most cynical of sales people have to admit that this was very LOW.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
That's good advise. A BMW tech would know exactly what to look for, and can probably see the cars service history, if it was serviced at the dealership.
I didn't know BMW had problems with their wiring.
I think I'll let this one go.
Roadburner, it's all yours. Bring rifles to trade, this is barter country.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
Driver100 wants to use this video to prove 'the driver could not have done this in an automatic'.
This car could very well have been an automatic. If not a full automatic, a 'sequential manual' or whatever someone else said it might be. Which would only need a clutch to get it moving. After that, electronics manage the clutch and gears internally, with the driver never needing to push in a clutch. Or move the shifter in a 'pattern'.
In one set of pictures, there are paddle shifters on the steering wheel. My 2007 Corvette is a 6 speed automatic. It can be driven as a 'full automatic' or shift up and down gears with its paddle shifters just like the video car.
The video might actually have been two different cars. In one car he is using paddle shifters on the steering wheel. And other scenes show him pulling a shifter in the center of the car. When he is doing this, he is NOT moving the shifter in any 'H' pattern, he is just pulling and pushing the shift forward and backward. (Actually, I never saw him push the shift forward. I didn't watch the entire video, I've seen it before.) Which means this is either an automatic being shifted the same as the paddle shifters, but using a stick, or an electronically managed manual, which does not need a clutch to make the shifts.
In any case, this is not a video to prove the superiority of a manual transmission. This car does not have a manual transmission which uses a clutch while shifting gears and a shifter moving in a pattern.
The driver is highly skilled. Mainly in being able to place the car exactly where he wants it.
And don't worry about 'abuse' of this car. It was designed and built to be driven like this. If is a Ford, the only thing stock Ford on it may be some body panels.
However, I think your friend's father bears some responsibility for the fiasco, too. I mean seriously, how do you not know that what you're buying doesn't have 4WD? Not familiar with the Liberty, but I'll assume the 4WD models have the big lever next to the shifter? Hard to miss that.
Plus, pretty easy to see that one vehicle says "Liberty" and the other says "Grand Cherokee" all over the outside.
Was there a product demonstration where the car buyer could ask questions (like "where is the 4WD lever?")?
If the buyer is THAT confused, then he probably shouldn't have been in the dealership by himself to begin with.
Not totally absolving the sales person, or the dealership for that matter. One of my biggest pet-peeves with sales people is they don't listen to what their customers want. Or, that you have to go through a product presentation BEFORE the sales person even remotely tries to find out what it is you want.
Even on the paperwork, the title had to say "Jeep Liberty" and not "Jeep Grand Cherokee".
It's a bad situation all the way around. Sales person didn't listen (or worse, took advantage of a confused customer). And, the buyer was woefully unobservant to sign his name for something he did not want to buy.
For that matter, when your BIL first spoke with the salesman, why didn't he say explicitly that his dad wanted 4WD?
I don't want to throw around the word "stupid", but I have to conclude from your account that Dad was asleep at the switch. I have a lot of trouble seeing him as an innocent victim.
Now you're talking, and don't forget about ole Roger Staubach, Danny White, and Troy Aikman... all great and classy quarterbacks.
The last 10 years has been an embarassment with Jerry Jones soiling America's Team with his overcontrolling ways. Maybe the Cowboys win out and make the playoffs at 9-7... then the Super Bowl on their home field. "Do you believe in miracles?" :P
Well, that was a bit low talking about snake not wearing a seat belt. You know why he doesn't wear one, and shouldn't use something like that against him as it is quite insensitive.
I think by the sound of the engine it was a manual...shifters or whatever.
Just my lay person's opinion, but I haven't heard automatics make the sound, that car was making, with clear gear changing sounds.
Once again, just my thinking, but I think the guy would want to choose the gear he was in to do the things he was doing.
But, I am sure not up on the technical side, so it is just my thoughts.
Just think what he could have done if he was driving a BMW though (ha ha ha....don't go crazy, just having some fun this Monday morning).
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Don't see it. I checked the owner's manual. It only says that it is a DTS (Digital Theater System). It comes as a part of the VES (Video Entertainment
System). Snake may know more about it. His car is just like mine, except for the color. At any rate, it does sound better than the Bose.
Richard
Well, once again, it is only my opinion, I am not speaking for any one else....but, I think there is so much evidence that your chances of surviving an accident are much greater if you are wearing a seatbelt....that someone who thinks it is safer not to wear a seatbelt......loses their credibility when talking about their own driving ability (that's from my perspective only)..
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
We were very careful and didn't spill or drop any of the food or drink. On Wednesday morning, my wife took her Caddy and went to a meeting. I decided to take the convertible and go to the grocery store. When I opened the door of the convertible, the smell of onions, chilli, and fries nearly knocked me down. That smell lasted until this morning---six days later! Never again will we eat in one of our cars. I'm just glad that I didn't have to pick up a friend last week to go some place in the convertible. Talk about something offensive.
Speaking of such things, we haven't smoked a single cigarette in the Caddy. It has that wonderful "new" smell of leather, etc. If we get the urge to smoke, we just stop and exit the car to do it. We are determined to keep it a smoke free automobile. That reminds me of something else. When we got top dollar for the Explorer, I was a little surprised because it really had been a smoker's car. It had been detailed, but I'm sure that the salesman noticed it. Every time that I think about the SRX deal, I feel so fortunate....$6k for the '03 Explorer and another $3k negotiated off the price of the SRX. I love driving that Caddy more and more each day.
Richard
Thanks, but if all goes well by the time the tires wear out it will be gone... the POS Dunlops won't make the lease (3yr/36K) so I'll be damned if I am going to drop a grand on tires for the thing.
I am hoping that I can get out of the lease right around the two year mark (next May) and take the hit on the negative equity. I figure 1000 for tires (give or take) and the $400 disposition fee gives me $1400 negative equity before I start to lose big money on the thing.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Icon I6L Golf Cart
Not sure what Cadillac is using these days, but if it's Bose, DTS would be included as part of the surround decoding scheme of the audio/video electronics.
Don't know what their more current electronics are (as in your SRX), but they had some issues in them (using Dolby and DTS decoding schemes) a few years ago.
May not matter to you if you don't listen to surround sound disks in your SRX.
I'm a bit of an audio-enthusiast and can tell you that aside from getting a big sound out of a small package Bose is over-rated. I have one of their Ipod docks I got as a gift and it sounds damn good for how tiny it is, however, in a good home/car system their equipment does nothing for me.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Icon I6L Golf Cart
When a new guy showed up here recently, I knew there would be a clash based on his history in other forums.
Totally unnecessary. Nobody has to "win" every argument.
Your brother in laws dad had the responsiblity of knowing what he was buying. He'
s a grown man. If he is that inept, he shouild have brought someone more knowledgable along with him. I suspect the artifically low price made him bit on it.
There was a REASON for the "killer deal". There always is.
However, I really think the salesperson knew exactly what was happening. I suspect taht this was a near impossible car to sell and the salesperson at least suspected the buyer assumed it was 4WD.
He should have said..." this is a great deal but it is 2WD. Are you OK with that?
A coupld of years age we had a customer who had just moved here from San Diege. He had a three year old PRISTINE Lincoln Navagator to trade in. It was black and it just dripped with chrome. Huge chrome wheels, running boards, navagation etc. It was in as good condition as it could have been.
We called the local Lincoln dealer for a "buy bid" since we were unsure. The Lincoln dealer jumped at it knowing they had a buyer.
The buy bid was for more that I thought it should have been so I figured we had a deal. They sent me in to help the new salesperson make the deal.
I chatted with the nice couple about San Diego and the nice climate they have etc.
I asked them if they were skiers...no. So I said.." I'll bet you've never used the 4WD then.
That got an odd look from both of them. " Ah...it doesn't have 4WD"
I went into the Sales Office and told the SM about the 2WD and he about fell out of his chair! " THANK GOD YOU CAUGHT THAT!"
Another call to the Lincoln Dealer..." WHAT??"
The Navagator was nice but saleproof. They left slowly shaking their heads.
We would have lost thousands of dollars.
edit: oops, already posted...late to the ball as usual.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Icon I6L Golf Cart
In some areas there is no use for 4WD so, yes, they do make a few.
I have only had a beef with two on edmunds:
- you (you admitted it was because you screwed up and confused me with someone else and while you apologized later, after some of your vile accusations prior to that, I didn't feel compelled to acknowledge it. That said, when I discovered you took it as an affront that I didn't acknowledge it, I did and we cleared the air. However in order to do so I had to let you have the last word. And when I came here it was in peace. I even supported you on an issue you had had, with support and genuine empathy. But since, I have I had to sit here and watch you write stuff about Honda owners being a paranoid, squirmy bunch with totally legit wty claims, and you fail to be fair about acknowledging well documented cases, but cuz they didn't support your verbal innuendos, you conveniently left them out. But still, I sat here and said nothing even though you have taken shots 3 times all on the same vein.
the only other person was:
- imadazol - who again I had a legitimate beef with him in a Lacrosse forum. - again I let him have the last word even though he left me a rather uncalled for post stating "I recommend Paxel". The mod deleted it, but I saw it and c/p it before that happened. BTW, imid, you spelled it wrong, it's paxil.
So just what does it take for you to move on?
I have made peace with you even though in order to do so I had to do the rolling over. Some things I will stand up to and some times you have to pick your battles.
Because I chose to stand up to you is why u still carry that grudge and make innuendos. Am I suppose to just let you do so for the next x number of years till one of us is the first to kick off? IT AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN!
As for imadazol, he has let things drop and so have I. I even recently gave him credit for his literate abilities over the w/e. It was similar to the peace-keeping effort I made with you.
But unless they ban me I ain't going anywhere isell, so you might as well get used to me not buying all that you attempt to sell, ok? I contribute value to any forum I frequent. And I will NOT be bullied around by you or anyone else. I will remain respectfully diplomatic with people like you, as needed, because I don't want to be banned, but I'm not taking any crap of you either...whether it is innuendo or not, so I ask you now, to stop it. But I will also enjoy certain others here whose humour, shared knowledge, diplomacy etc make being a part of this forum a rewarding experience. So back off and don't screw it up for us!
Further, I can prove any claim I have made here in black and white.
This WAS a friendly peaceful forum.
Unless you're on welfare you've probably got me beat. :sick:
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
(not directed to isell in particular... just responding to the last post.)
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2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
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That could very well be the problem. We don't know how old dad was. He might have been old enough that he couldn't convey his wants. Combine that with a saleman who had hot pants to make a sale and--disaster.
When my father was in his final years he made a number of bad purchases. Once he let a slick salesman charge him $5000 for a scooter which he could have gotten free through Medicare. Another time he bought stock over the phone from a boiler room salesman. It was shortly after these poor decisions that we found out he had a dementia type disorder. It's tough for the family to see the problem sometimes for a lot of reasons.
But my big question is: What did dad do with the Jeep, take the hit or keep it?
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
His Dad knew he was originally supposed to buy a Grand Cherokee and the salesman ended up selling him a Liberty. I have no problem with the salesman trying to sell a different car.
The salesman didn't lie and say it was 4WD when it wasn't. My BIL's Dad never asked how you engage 4WD. He's not into cars. He assumed it was a Jeep and it had 4WD.
The salesman never said "This is a 2 Wheel Drive vehicle, not 4 wheel drive."
Now we are not talking about a southern or even mid-Atlantic state. We are talking about a northern suburb of New York City. Good luck trying to find a non-4Matic Mercedes, BMW without X-Drive, or Quattro-less Audi on a dealer lot much less a 2 Wheel Drive JEEP.
The salesman did his job. He knew the customer's hot button was price and played it. Anyway you look at it, it was a dirty play by the salesman.
Even Craig just told about that story about the Navigator. Everybody assumed it was 4 Wheel Drive until he had the brains to ask.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
umm, just a correction to the record. Ken Block is driving a car with sequential gear box, which is a manual transmission using paddle shifters. The paddle shifters allow you to shift much faster, no H pattern....just straight up or down.
You are correct, the big stick in the middle is used for brakes.
. In Formula One cars, there are actually two paddles on the sides of the steering wheel, instead of a shift lever. The left paddle up-shifts, while the right paddle downshifts. On a motorcycle, you do the same thing, but instead of moving a lever back and forth with your hand, you move a lever up and down with your foot.
Advantages of a sequential gear box - if you are really into this stuff:
Nearly every race car that has a manual transmission uses the sequential approach rather than the "H" pattern. There are four main reasons for this preference:
The sequential shift is quicker. For example, to go from 2nd to 3rd gear on the "H" pattern, you have to push the lever up, over and up again. That takes time. On a sequential gearbox, you simply push the lever up for every gear change.
The sequential shift is consistent. You do not have to think, "Let's see, I'm in second gear so I have to go up-over-up to get to third." You simply push the lever forward -- it's the same motion for every gear.
The hand location is consistent. With the "H" pattern, the location of the shift lever changes, so you have to think about where to put your hand depending on which gear you are in. With a sequential gearbox, the shift lever is always in the same place for the next shift.
The sequential shift has no surprises. If you mis-shift with the "H" pattern in a race (for example, down-shifting to 2nd when you meant to go to 4th), it is possible to blow up the engine. That can never happen with a sequential gearbox.
For more info see How Stuff Works - Sequential Gear Boxes:
HOW A SEQUENTIAL GEAR BOX WORKS
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Still is. You just need to know which posts to skip!
Well, it is officially another week from when I posted but I'm still sick as a dog. On Friday I was at 103.4 Yikes! I think i was a kid last time that happened.
Have to go in for blood on Thursday. After having a couple of years where I was going every other week it has been fourteen and a half months! Hate to see it go. They assure me this is just a bump in the road.
LOL. That's what I called the OEM Dunlop SP 4000 tires that came with our Mazda MPV.. For such expensive tires to perform so weakly and wear out so prematurely is a crime against humanity. My Dunslops wore out at around 31k miles. I probably should have replaced them a bit earlier as traction was getting poor.
A lot of people in here will never know you wrote that... just kidding. Hope you feel better.
I don't know what a Liberty costs. $20K? $30K? If I'm writing a check for 5 figures, I think I might want to know some details of the purchase, however. That's just me, though.
Isell will cringe when I relay this story, but.....
Not cars but appliances.....had a fridge that was on its last legs. $450 to fix it. $1,100 for a new one. While that's a pretty good spread of money, I always consider the age of my cars, appliances, TVs etc when something goes wrong and I'm staring at a fairly hefty repair bill.
I doubt very seriously they'll ever pay for them selves (as my new furnace probably will), the new appliances are supposed to be much more energy efficient. Plus, the black appliances I had (14 years old), while "macho" looking, really are pretty depressing, given that my fridge, Washer/dryer, dishwasher, stove, microwave, compactor, are all black.
Stainless....now that looks contemporary and more up-to-date. So, I made it a clean sweep. Out with the old appliances (which mostly worked just fine), in with the new (better looking, more efficient).
Before writing a $7,500 check for everything, I did some research. CR is poor for cars, but they're ratings for appliances are top notch. Checked them. Checked Best Buy's and Sears' on line customer ratings for different appliances. Generally, anything I could get a hold of that would reliably rate appliances. I knew the appliances better than the sales people did. Plus, I scoured every sale flier and newspaper ad I could put my hands on. So, I knew like for like pricing, too.
Like my car research, I knew what I was going to buy, what it would cost, and where I was going to buy, before even heading to the store.
Best Buy had everything I wanted, and great prices (not to mention I would get a little kick back by being a "Reward Zone" member). Except, the fridge I researched I wanted didn't have an in-door ice chute. It had a cold water dispenser in the door, but no ice (stupid cost cutting, IMHO).
I wouldn't have known that until the install had I not inspected it in the store (sure enough, just water, no ice, though).
I kind of relay that to the 2WD Lincoln or Jeep vs a 4WD version.
Gotta know what you want, where to get it, what to pay for it....before you walk into the store. Otherwise, unpleasant surprises seem to happen. :shades:
When 99% of Jeeps in New York have 4WD, I can see a buyer assuming it had 4WD. It was, indeed, a "dirty play" by that salesperson.
And, he didn't do this by himself. The Sales Manager who desked the deal should have asked..." Did you tell him it's a 2WD? I doubt if that happened.
I sold quite a few 2WD CRV's and Pilots but I always made VERY sure my buyer kew what they were buying. A lot of people feel little or no need for 4WD around here and they didn't want to pay for something they didn't care about.
At that point, I would point out the fact that they would own a car that would be very difficult to resell when the time came.
Some would think about it and reconsider.
During a bad snow a couple of years ago, I had a woman call me just to thank me for suggesting she not buy a 2WD CRV after a tough drive home from work in the snow.
The thing that bothers me the most is the 5000.00 hit for keeping the car one day.
Hey, I thought we got you healthy! Get yourself well now!