By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our
Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our
Visitor Agreement.
Comments
Ah. Trunklid struts might take up less space than gooseneck hinges, but they do wear out and require regular replacement. I vaguely recall some sort of articulated lateral bar arrangement under the package shelf that was sometimes used to hold trunklids up.
Rocky
Struts for the trunk might last longer nowadays than they used to. For one thing, I've noticed that on most modern cars with trunk struts, the decklid opens up about 90 degrees, pointing straight up, so once it's fully open it's not putting that much pressure on the strut. My 1979 New Yorker has trunk struts, and if I'm parked on enough of an incline, they won't hold the trunk open. It has a huge decklid though, much larger and heavier than any modern car, most likely. Plus, they don't raise the decklid to 90 degrees, so when opened, the decklid is putting much more pressure on the struts. My grandmother's '85 LeSabre had struts that held the hood open. Once that car was about 10 years old, we started carrying a broom handle with it to use as a hood prop!
Gooseneck hinges have gotten larger in more recent years, partly because the channels around the trunk opening that divert water are much deeper, but also to hold the trunk open at a wider angle. Nowadays you run the risk of smashing your cargo with the hinges. Back in the day, the hinge was not only smaller, but also retracted into a boxed-off area to keep it from damaging cargo.
Another minus to gooseneck hinges, I guess, is those torsion bars up under the rear window that actually hold the trunk open. They take up some trunk space. And with time, they'll get weak too, although usually they're designed with adjustments so that when they no longer hold the trunk open, you can just pop the bar out and move it up a notch on the rack thingie to tighten it up.
That's right. You're learning how to twist the truth. As for MacPherson struts vs double A-arms with elbows and rotary shoulder articulation type suspension... I recall years ago it was the wunderbar foreign cars which used struts and that was the only way to go for great handling cars. Soooooo, now that cars have MacPherson struts the sports car element thinks double A-arms are the only way to go. Frankly I find that something like measuring only 0-60 times and quarter miles and horsepower at 5500 rpm because the motor has been tuned to give an 8 greater horsepower rating than another car and that makes it better. Actually it's the torque at normal above idle speeds that make the car drive for 99% of the drivers (other than an Infinity driver who parallel parks very well). I recall long ago being elated that a replacement model for a car I liked was upping their horsepower. Of course the gearing in the manual tranny and the final drive ratio at the rear weren't in my considerationg because they had raise the horsepower by 10 with a model 3 years later...
My point is, if it makes you feel good, buy A-arm only. I'll stick with my struts and struts/shocks which do very well in a family sedan with LOTS of torque and great gearing choices from good engineering. I'm happy. Don't bug me; buy what you want.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Struts would also usually last much longer than shocks, too. However, once they started to go bad, replacement costs are much higher.
Yeah, you are correct once again but I believe the 2-Mode will go into cars as well as capacity increases. Remember they are sharing this technology with Chrysler, and BMW.
Rocky
If you don't care about 0-60 times, why do you care about torque? Torque in a vehicle is used to pull stumps, pull trailers, and pull timeslips.
If weight distribution were the key factor, with 50/50 supposedly being the ideal, than Porsche 911 could never have been considered a fine handling car.
The facts, actual measured performance, do not support contention that RWD is superior setup to FWD. A shift by GM to more car offerings in RWD configuration will not necessarily bring more profits to them. Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Hyundai have done very well over last decade of increasing sales using the FWD platform. RWD is not as an efficient of a package compared to FWD and it is not as safe either.
The myth about RWD handling better than FWD can be dispelled by looking at some Edmunds reviews concerning slalom tests. The slalom is a fair test of vehicles to show their transient response and in more practical terms, the ability to quickly/safely maneuver out of harm’s way in everyday driving. Here are some data in rank order by MPH of FWD and RWD cars and a FWD Minivan - Yikes. Note the CTS and GTO.
68.6 BMW 330i (2006)
67.5 Acura TL (2004) FWD
66.4 Infiniti G35 (2006)
64.6 Honda Accord V6 (2006) FWD
64.2 Ford FusionV6 (2006) FWD
62.1 Hyundai Sonata V6 (2006) FWD
61.1 Cadillac CTS (2006)
61.0 Honda Odyssey (2006) FWD
60.5 Toyota Camry V6 (2007) FWD
60.0 Pontiac GTO (2005)
A number of front drivers are better than GM’s RWD CTS and “performance” GTO.
Here are some quotes from an Edmunds Test of 2006 Cadillac CTS:
In our slalom test at the track, however, the CTS didn't perform as well as we had hoped. When pushed, its suspension was slow to react between the 100-foot cone gates, and its P225/50R17 Goodyear Eagle RS-A tires overheated after the fifth run. In the end, the CTS threaded the course at 61 mph, which is substantially slower than both the G35's 66.4-mph run and the 330i's 68.6-mph speed.
There just might be a better run in this car; however, there are two things that limit the slalom speeds: tires and a slow-to-react suspension. It takes (in relative terms) forever for the CTS to settle after each cone. In other words, the car is still pitched over when the next cone arrives. Also, the tires began to give up by the fifth run once I figured out the best "less-is-more" technique.
Here are some quotes from an Edmunds Test of 2004 Acura TL:
The TL feels extremely confident on the street, but it took several runs through our slalom to confirm its status as one of the best-handling front-wheel drivers we've sampled. The steering is properly weighted and offers stellar feedback. The engine's broad torque range and progressive throttle response made powering through the slalom easy, and the smart chassis/suspension tuning allowed us to place the car easily between cones. Technically, it may not be as "fun" as a BMW 3 Series, but it obviously goes through the slalom just as rapidly.
Comparing the Slalom of the Entry level lux performance cars of CTS and TL, CTS did 61.1 and the TL did 67.5.
Edmunds “one-word”overall Ratings on Handling are: Excellent, Good, Average, Poor and Very Poor. Edmunds gave Ratings to CTS and TL as follows:
Handling: CTS – Average, TL – Excellent
Proof of handling capability is in the test data and the supposedly disadvantaged FWD TL easily beats the CTS and performs as well as the RWD G35 and BMW.
GM is wise in taking another look at its plans for future RWD cars. RWD does not necessarily make for a better performing car and is actually a more wasteful package layout and a less safe drive configuration for people in snow/ice climates. RWD is not the panacea for GM.
remote start
sunroof *
leather steer whl wrap *
dual zone climate control *
16" painted alloy wheels
power seat *
power windows *
steer wheel climate controls *
content theft alarm system *
Driver info center
On star (probably more useful than stability control)
100k mi warranty on powertrain
6 year warranty on rust
unobtrusive trunk hinges
The Honda link does not show alloy wheels standard on the Accord SE and their list was exhaustive down to the manually adjusted seats.
What would typical buyer get more use out of, 0-60 in .5 less seconds, or a quieter, roomier, smoother riding, more efficient car with 15% more trunk space and 10 more significant features for the same price?
Nobody used their sunroof everyday. I'd venture a guess that they are used 1/100th of the time the car is driven.
Leather wrapped steering wheels are very nice, points for Buick, but.... I bet the one in my A3 is nicer than the one in the Lacrosse.
17" alloys are much better than any painted 16" alloy, Honda wins this one, unless proof is shown that the SE doesn't come with alloys.
Power seat is used only once for the entire lifetime of the vehicle unless others are driving it, in which case, you need memory settings to make it worthwhile.
100K and 60 K warranties ... if these get used everyday, then you're GM is too GM-like. I know.. you didn't put a "*" by these items. By the way.... I'll take the safety of stability control over OnStar anyday. Afterall, avoiding accidents is more important.
Trunk hinges..... again, used rarely.
Rocky
Example - the trunk hinges vs. struts. Give me struts any day. My favorite guitar case bears a mark from my first attempt to put it in the trunk of my 00 Accord. I have not checked out how the hinges compare with the current Accord.
I had an 87 Maxima wagon that had struts front and back and they never wore out through the 167K I got it to and past 200K that the next owner did.
I like sunroofs. Would like a convertible more but a sunroof on a nice day is great.
I would like Onstar but live without it just fine.
Power seats? Like 'em but wouldn't base a buy or don't buy decision on those alone.
I don't know that I care much about the alloy wheels - they bang up so easily.
I don't think doing the Accord SE vs the LaCrosse would be decided on feature content for me. I'd try them both out and decided on a bang for the buck basis. I've owned three Accords but am not at all married to the idea that the next car has to be another one.
A little advice here, 1487: you may want to brush up on your reading comprehension skills a tad. I have not criticized the car. I questioned whether a Pontiac can sell for this price, given the baggage carried by the brand. There is a difference.
1487: Thats exactly what I like to tell people who are constantly bragging about Toyota's sales gains. More models will ususally result in more sales and Toyota has been expanding its lineup in the US for the last 10 years or more.
That's nice, but I wasn't talking about Toyota, so leave the red herrings in the ocean of your imagination, instead of trying to reel them into this debate.
You use the same tactic - claiming a brand (Saturn in this case) had increased sales, without mentioning that those sales increases are because of new additions to the lineup. Let him who is without sin...
1487: I suppose you also thought the vette wouldnt be successful since its a Chevy that can cost $70k. YOu continue to complain about the G8's price when we dont even know its price.
The Corvette is a different animal. It has the reputation to command those prices, because it is a known and respected vehicle.
1487: I suspect that FULLY LOADED the G8 will be around $34k or so.
Unless your real name is Alison Dubois - or Patricia Arquette - I'll take that post with a great big grain of salt and wait for myself until the actual prices of the car and equipment are released.
1487: This is common knowledge. Audis are FWD/AWD and front heavy and Acuras are FWD except for the RL. The weight distribution in these cars cannot match RWD models from BMW and Cadillac. Audis and Acuras are more competent than Toyotas but any enthusiast magazine will confirm they are a step below the RWD sports sedans they compete against. You cannot honestly tell me you have never heard this before. I assure you Cadillac's RWD cars are every bit as capable as front heavy Audi or Acura models. It is laughable that you believe that Cadillacs RWD cars are lacking compared to FWD Accord-based Acura sedans.
xrunner2 has addressed this contention.
1487: MOST buyers in this segment want RWD cars. Lexus, Cadillac, MB and BMW make RWD sports sedans in this class. Acura is the ONLY one that is making FWD luxury sports sedans.
You forget Audi.
1487: When Cadillac was using FWD import fans blasted them constantly for not making a proper RWD platform.
Most of them were mediocre vehicles, and Cadillac was pitching them in the next higher price class ($45-50,000). Different market.
1487: I can get flawless build quality and high speed stability in a Hyundai these days. Those qualities are hardly exclusive to expensive German cars. You sound like a BMW press release or something.
LOL...if you believe that you are getting build quality and high-speed stability in a Hyundai that equals that of a BMW, the only thing you are getting is a bill of goods.
I can tell the differences in build quality - panel fit, eveness of paint application, quality of the upholstery - just by walking around the respective vehicles.
And go to Germany to see a BMW in action on the Autobahn. If you really believe that a Hyundai is just as smooth, quiet and stable at 90 mph - let alone 100+ mph, well...
1487: Or perhaps some people just thought the CTS was the best car for them.
Undoubtedly so, but there are also people who prefer to buy domestic, and the CTS gave them an offering in this market.
1487: I always love it when self righteous import fans suggest that anyone who buys an American car must be doing so because they are patriotic idiots who are too stubborn to consider a superior foreign car. So you are telling me people who bought the CTS only did so because it was one of the few domestic luxury cars available and NOT because the car was competent in its own right.
Okay, you obviously aren't Alison Dubois - or even Patricia Arquette - because your attempt at mind reading has failed miserably.
I never said or inferred those things. You need to tone down the sensitivity level here. There is a difference between: a.) GM bashing; b.) offering concerns about a model's positioning in the market; c.) offering honest criticism.
My wife and I own a 2003 Honda Accord EX sedan and a 2005 Ford Focus SE, and I am quite familiar with GM's offerings, as my parents have been loyal GM customers since 1968 (they currently own a 1999 Buick Park Avenue and 2002 Olds Bravada). I'm willing to bet that I have had more experiences with both imports and domestics than you have had.
Loren
Loren
Yes, I will agree that FWD has come a long way. The Honda, Audis, and Celicas as examples of fun to drive cars. Still would prefer a RWD if money is no object. I owned a Miata for awhile and it was a kick to drive. Not to say the Accord with the V6 is not fun in its own way. I would have bought a BMW if I could justify the extra cost compared to my current station in life. If I get a stick car again, it will be RWD. FWD with a stick transmission just did not feel right for me, but then again, it was on a PT.
As for the 911, my impression of those older models was that they were fun to throw around when taken with due caution and constant effort to keep in total control. If one backs off the throttle or got a bit more cavalier than prudent you have to call 911 for your 911.
Stability control I guess now tames under-steer, wheel lock-ups, and wheel spin on take-off of FWD cars, so those issues may be laid to rest. Still think the RWD is the most natural balance for an auto. True the cost to build is less on the FWD and space utilization is better.
I suppose it is all good. Just like everything in life the plus and the minus side to everything. Just don't go smokin' those tires and think your engine is on fire.
Loren
Loren
If you want to keep after them on this just hit the blue button in the car and keep asking for a supervisor or the supervisor's boss. Eventually you should get somewhere. If you are hooked in through the onstar button it's on their dime. Or you could snail mail the guy at the address here:
http://www.onstar.com/us_english/jsp/corporate/index.jsp
GM isnt abandoning FWD by any means, most of their cars will remain FWD in the future. GM is considering 2 or 3 RWD sedans that aren't Cadillacs. Cars like the Malibu, Aura, 9-3, Cobalt, etc. will remain FWD.
Most cars in this class dont even have leather standard.
You made statements about how the car wouldnt sell because there would be no "base" model. It is common knowledge that there will be a V6 model costing well under $30k. How can you predict the car will not find buyers if you dont know anything about the car? I think thats a fair question.
"You use the same tactic - claiming a brand (Saturn in this case) had increased sales, without mentioning that those sales increases are because of new additions to the lineup. Let him who is without sin... "
Its common knowledge that Saturn added models. I am confused as to what big secret or conspiracy you feel you have exposed. Saturn's lineup had two vehicles only two years ago. If GM thought they could've increased the brands sales WITHOUT new models there would be no Aura, Outlook or Sky. It's pretty apparent that Saturn has added models to ad volume. Can you explain how this is something that should be ridiculed? I am lost. Hopefully I was able to explain that without any "red herrings".
"Unless your real name is Alison Dubois - or Patricia Arquette - I'll take that post with a great big grain of salt and wait for myself until the actual prices of the car and equipment are released.
Based on Lutz's comments and what has been reported by the press the car is expected to cost between $25k-$35k. Of course we dont know the EXACT numbers but if your expecting a $50k Pontiac you will be disappointed. You are pretending we know NOTHING about the car in order to support your fantasy that Pontiac is going to charge premium dollars for the G8. MArk my words, the G8 will be substantially cheaper than any similar car except the 300/Charger.
"xrunner2 has addressed this contention. "
Actually he hasn't. What he has done is selected a FWD car with above average slalom speed and used it to say FWD cars handle better than RWD cars. On average, they do not. That is not to say NO FWD car can outhandle ANY RWD car, I never said that. We all know the TL or Mazda 3 handles better than the Town Car, but that doesnt mean FWD makes for a better sports sedan. The other thing is you guys are ignoring the power limitations of FWD chassis'. The TL will not be able to compete with the latest entry lux sedans power wise without going to AWD. 300hp is the limit on FWD cars and many feel that is way beyond what is sensible.
"I'm willing to bet that I have had more experiences with both imports and domestics than you have had. "
That is directly related to age. If you are older you probably have more experience with cars. Not sure how that is relevant but you may be 100% correct.
honest criticism is well and good but there is little of that being dispensed by the Usual Suspects here. WHen you are going to criticize it's important to have a handle on the facts. Years of experience with car ownership doesnt make anyone a car expert. If you think the G8 is going to flop that is your opinion, but dont make assumptions about it's price, features and capabilities that are totally off base. Same goes for FWD vs RWD. If you dont mind FWD cars (neither do I) that is beautiful but don't state that FWD cars are better sports sedans when that flies in the face of common sense and accepted precedent. Its apparent you are not a C&D reader because they make it very clear that real sports sedans should be RWD.
Electrically adjustable four-way lumbar adjustment for driver and front passenger seats
Audi Symphony AM/FM stereo with in-dash 6-disc CD changer
Dual climate control air conditioning with separate driver and front passenger controls
Dual circuit brake system with diagonal split, Antilock Brake System (ABS), Electronic Brake pressure Distribution (EBD) and Electronic Stabilization Program, upgraded version 8.0 (ESP) with brake disc wiping feature; tandem brake booster
Plus a whole lotta stuff. Need we continue?
A "whole lotta stuff"? A hyundai has a whole lotta stuff standard as well. I'm only interested in features not found on lesser cars like an Accord EX or something. I dont care about things like a CD player and 6 airbags being standard, that is to be expected on almost any car.
The A4 has about 5 features not standard on the CTS and I think you mentioned most of them. You left out split folding seats and rear heat ducts. The CTS has XM radio, steering wheel audio controls and auto dimming mirror standard which the A4 lacks. Neither is lavishly equipped for $28k-$30k.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
A shortage of standard equipment has never been GM's problem anyhow. The question is a distraction from the issue.
GM's perceived lack of value doesn't stem from lack of geegaws and jimcracks. The problem lies in the belief that features and interiors of the cars don't hold up over time, and that resale value is poor compared to the competition.
Note: this isn't basic reliability that people seem to doubt. Recall the old saw: "GM cars run bad longer than most cars run at all".
Likes:
Smooth ride, nicer than I anticipated. Nothing bad at all to say about the mechanical operation of the car. The trunk space was nice, and XM Radio!! The interior materials & styling quality were better than I expected. I liked that heated seats were a) an option, and b) on my rental car.
Dislikes that may be a result of them being different rather than bad:
I include a photo of the interior since this is where I have most of my gripes -
Controls on the steering wheel - I wish volume up/down were on the front instead of channel change. The ones on the front are much easier to access.
There was no manual, and it took forever to figure out how to re-set the trip meter. Waaaaaaay too complex for what is usually a simple and oft-repeated process.
Plain old bad:
Side mirrors - bad design, limit visibility
Rear view mirror did not auto-dim (maybe it's an option?)
Heating/cooling controls - that whole bottom section in the center is dedicated to climate control. Too much going on there. Simplify, please.
I wanted to like it, thought I would hate it, but I landed somewhere in between. I still wouldn't purchase it over many other offerings in the price range, but I really did enjoy driving it as a rental.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
86er: Remember when purchasing an Impala the depreciation of it will be substantial, and driving it as a rental for a week or two will not give an indication of its durability for the next few years. I drove an Impala rental across country a couple of years ago and thought it ran well, and the furl milage was good, for the car size. After I researched the car, I learned it had a huge drop off in resale value and problems of assorted nature through the the three-five year period after ownership.
To me the climate controls are very simple. You have dials for fan speed, temp (driver and passenger) and air flow control plus buttons for AC and defrost. Seems logical to me.
Dont know much about the trip computer.
Looking back to another good make over, which was more radical, I am recalling the '94 Mustang, which I think was redesigned for something like 380 million. Wonder what a freshen up job like the Impala had cost GM? It was well worth it, as it kept them in the game.
Would have been better timing to have the all new Impala come out this year however, as the same year as the Accord, and closer to the release of the new Altima, and Camry, to name a couple.
Loren
I dont think interiors or features are of concern to most people. When people talk about real problems, they are usually talking about things that are expensive to fix like powertrain, electrical and suspension problems. I dont know of any evidence that GM interiors dont last as long as import interiors. I also have heard little about GM cars having electrical or emissions problems.
Resale value is another story. If your primary concern is resale value you should only shop Hondas and Toyotas. No domestics, no VWs, no Mazda, no Hyundais, etc. GM isnt the only company that trails the leaders in resale value.
Glad to know auto-dim is available... the RV mirror was rather flimsy and flipping it and having it maintain the right position was a PITA.
There's no "reset" button. You have to push one button to go through a long-ish menu, then push another button to select that particular feature, then hold that button in to re-set. Since I re-set mine every time I fill up, that would get old.
Loren, most of the ergonomics are just fine & dandy, and the overall look had the same appeal as a CamCord to me (which is limited, but that's the market). The Monte Carlo was offered to me, and I passed because I just can't get over the exterior look (which is just...not "me").
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
I take it people like the auto-dim rear view mirrors. Never owned a car with that feature. I prefer to see the cars more clearly which are behind me and can judge distance with greater ease. That said, I tip it on up when followed by those dang SUV and trucks which have lights of greater height.
What I do not like in package deals / standard equipment are those stupid moon roofs. Don't want it, and it takes away from the headroom.
The new CTS will have more standard features a luxury car should have, and what is already available as standard on much less costly cars. New CTS is on track, as long as the price remains the same.
Loren
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
Loren
If I were buying one, and this is exactly the problem GM has to overcome, I would buy a tear old one with low mileage because that first owner will take the major hit on depreciation.
My next door neighbor does exactly that with Chrysler minivans and makes out like a bandit. His current van cost him maybe $14K and he now has 200K miles on it.
Actually he hasn't. What he has done is selected a FWD car with above average slalom speed and used it to say FWD cars handle better than RWD cars.
My statement actually read: “RWD does not necessarily make for a better performing car and is actually a more wasteful package layout and a less safe drive configuration for people in snow/ice climates.”
1487 Said:
On average, they do not. That is not to say NO FWD car can outhandle ANY RWD car, I never said that. We all know the TL or Mazda 3 handles better than the Town Car, but that doesnt mean FWD makes for a better sports sedan.
2004 TL almost as good as benchmark 2006 BMW 330 and beats 2006 Infiniti G35. This is quite different from saying that a TL can beat a behemoth Town Car.
Also, 2007 TL-S (66.0 MPH) beats Infiniti G35 Sport (65.5 MPH) and is within 0.7 MPH of Lexus IS 350 (66.7 MPH) in Feb 07 R & T 700 foot slalom. Large RWD Chrysler 300C runs slalom at 66.5 MPH in R & T 700 ft slalom.
In smaller car category per R & T Slalom, Honda S2000 RWD pure sports car does 69.7 MPH and Mini Cooper S FWD does 69.5 MPH.
Other front driver cars tested by Edmunds in Slalom that do well include: 2007 Nissan Altima 3.5 SE at 67.0 MPH, 2007 Nissan Sentra SE-R at 64.7 MPH and 2006 VW Rabbit at 62.6 MPH. These all do better than CTS and GTO.
FWD can indeed perform as well in handling/slalom as RWD “IF” manufacturer has expertise in designing and integrating suspension, brakes, engine, transmission and equips with appropriate wheels/tires. Apparently, GM came up short with the CTS and GTO. Acura can design a well balanced car to handle just as well as BMW, G35, and Lexus IS.
1487 Said:
The other thing is you guys are ignoring the power limitations of FWD chassis'. The TL will not be able to compete with the latest entry lux sedans power wise without going to AWD. 300hp is the limit on FWD cars and many feel that is way beyond what is sensible.
Would agree about power limitations. BUT, there is absolutely no need to have more HP in a FWD such as TL or TL-S. Those desiring entry level lux perf cars do not desire drag strip acceleration performance, but rather a well balanced car.
Again, RWD is no magic elixir for GM. RWD cars are less efficient and less safe (snow and ice) than FWD cars.
The Malibu/Aura/G6/Saab FWD seem like pretty good cars overall. But why not have something for those wanting for a RWD tradional all American car once again. Just a thought.
For slalom testing those short little guys like the Mini Cooper seem to have the advantage. And they scoot on the track too. That said, Corvettes and larger / heavier RWD cars seem to handle just fine on track and roads around the world. A Quattro may beat the BMW around the track. What about those FWD Audis? If the BMW doesn't have to add weight, are they losing to Audis these days?
Loren
I dont think interiors or features are of concern to most people. Then what the heck have you guys been talking about for the last 100 posts (hyperbole factor noted - no need to tell me it was only 36 posts or something).
I dont know of any evidence that GM interiors dont last as long as import interiors. - Yes you do, but you don't credit Consumer Reports.
Power equipment and accessories: Power windows, locks, mirrors, seat adjustments, sunroof, convertible top, sliding doors or lift gates, keyless entry, cruise control, heated and cooled seats, backup sensors and camera.
Take a look at the Pontiac Grand Prix, Malibu under:
Climate System
Paint/Trim/Rust
Body Integrity
Body hardware
Power equipment
Audio System
Now you're going to tell me to look at NEW GM cars (or, usually, future models) and everything will just be hunky-dory. Before you do that, please recall that the point is that the interiors et al don't hold up over time.
I'm probably wasting my time since you believe CU to be an instrument of -if not the devil- at least the French or somebody.