General Motors discussions

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  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    Ya'll gotta see this.....i>

    Yeh, I know it will make a great used buy in 3 years time.


    And that pretty much sums up GM lately.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,120
    I think they were pretty reliable transmissions, but once the 3-speed automatic became the norm they were simply outclassed. And while we love to harp on the attributes of a 4-speed versus a 5/6 speed tranny these days, back then the additional gear really made a difference.

    Since you only had two gears instead of three, they usually made first gear of a 2-speed somwhere between the first and second gear of a 3-speed tranny. I don't know GM's ratios, but here's a Chrysler example...

    Powerflite 2-speed:
    1st gear: 1.72:1
    2nd gear: 1.00:1

    Torqueflite 3-speed:
    1st gear: 2.45:1
    2nd gear: 1.45:1
    3rd gear: 1.00:1

    They'd usually put in a quicker axle ratio with the 2-speed to somewhat compensate, but a 3-speed was still quicker. And that quicker axle ratio would hurt highway fuel economy.

    Every year, Consumer Reports would usually test a Chevy Impala smallblock, a Ford Galaxie with a 289 or 302, a Fury with a 318, and a Catalina with a 389 or 400. The Impala would consistently get the worst acceleration, but IIRC, the worst fuel economy as well! All the others used 3-speed automatics compared to the Chevy's 2-speed.

    Top honors usually went to the Catalina, which would always have the quickest acceleration, and could actually break 20 mpg on the highway...or at least on CR's highway simulation. Its large engine allowed the car to be geared taller than the Ford or Mopar, while still having good power and economy.

    Now the Catalina wasn't always their top pick overall, once you factor in other things like price, reliability, comfort, handling, ergonomics, etc, but it was always tops when it came to fuel economy and acceleration.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,753
    Law of Parsimony: the simplest explanation more likely the correct one.

    Don't you like Judge Judy? ;) She puts on a good show. Better than the fake divorce courts.

    In car explanations, go for the simplest repair item when something goes wrong. Something's not working, check the fuse first; don't replace the item, yet.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,678
    You lost my confidence with that one. A lot of times She simply looks at the situation and forms an opinion without hearing the facts. That's what a lot of posters do here.i>

    Yeh, but Judge Judy has great intuition. She doesn't need all the "facts".

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Here is what I was responding to.

    no GM SUV is as good as the Volvo XC90

    is any GM SUV as good as the X5 (for what the X5 does)? Maybe the SRX. I'll give GM the nod on that.

    Of course, if all you want is a truck, buy GM, by all means


    He said NO SUV is as good as the Volvo except perhaps the SRX. Obviously he has a different need for an SUV.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Sister Susan Vickers, a nun in San Francisco, said the company needed to do
    a better job responding to global warming. "They need to respond to climate
    change and not pretend it doesn't exist," Vickers said.

    That didn't impress one shareholder, Joe Baker from Mississippi.

    "I think the Catholic Church is in favor of people going to church, and
    families need large vehicles and SUVs to get everyone to church," Baker
    said.
  • alp8alp8 Member Posts: 656
    I said if you want to buy a truck, buy a truck. What percentage of SUVs have even seen a trailer? Maybe 10%?

    For everyday driving, GM doesn't make a single SUV, other than the SRX (which we all acknowledge is not an SUV) that can hold a candle to the XC90. Obviously, the X5 outhandles every GM SUV, but the XC90 isn't really an SUV, either, I admit.

    The XC90 can not do everything that a GM SUV can. But no GM SUV can do what the XC90 can do, which is handle well in everyday driving, avoid collisions, etc.

    But if you like how a truck drives, then buy a GM SUV. Nothing wrong with that. But saying they are "the best" is not accurate.
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    I don't drink latte, let alone a double one! ;)

    I personally wouldn't want to go back to Powerglide, for the reasons so eloquently stated by Andre; I was simply offering it as an answer to people who want minimal shifting in their auto trannies!

    The Toyota rep in the Toyota boards is always the same person, based in their SoCal main office, not some nobody who happens to take Toyota's viewpoint.

    About Reagan, well I'd have to agree that he was a whole lot better than the current occupant. And like the bumper sticker says, "I never thought I'd miss Nixon!"
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    Great post! Takes you back to the glory days when the Pontiac nameplate meant something.
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    I had an Olds98 Regency 1987 and the transmission went out at 62K miles. Does that count. It had been serviced. Actually the only automatic I ever had service work done on. Jinx no doubt. The neighbors Olds 98 which is an '85 or '86 had the tranny dump early on, say the first year. They still have it though and it runs pretty good. They don't drive much mileage wise.

    Never owned a bad Japanese car. Don't know anyone personally which owned a bad Japan make. So there ya go. Could explain why people stopped buying GM.

    Not saying do not buy GM product as things change and of course we are not living in the 80's or 90's. Would be a nice thought for GM to have an longer warranty though. Those burned once, twice, thrice are a bit shy to return, no doubt. And then there is price. The used cars seem about right. Buy Japan car, the used is so close to new, it is usually better to buy new.

    Blaming the press reporting GM car and operation woes or the customer for not buying American, ain't gonna work.
    -Loren
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,753
    >based in their SoCal main office,

    And that's exactly what GM should have been doing all along. Even give the person some ability to contact owners with legitimate gripes and follow through on fixing them which is what the toyo rep seemed to have done with snap ring problem in trannies.

    Powerglide needed a third gear. Depended on how you drove the car, how much it needed that third gear.

    >"I never thought I'd miss Nixon!"

    Been that way for 14 years. I'd even settle for a government that enforced the laws they passed, i.e., border/illegal presence. Imagine if congress designed the program for the shifting and AI in the drive-by-wire transmissions!

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    And going back a few more years, wasn't the Studebaker consistantly the gas mileage king?
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,753
    They were competitive. We had a 1950 Stude, 6-cyl.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Yeah, I voted for Nixon. Now, I guess it is none of the above. Is that a choice on the ballot. Will check that out next trip to the voting booth.
    -Loren
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,753
    We agree!

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • wvgasguywvgasguy Member Posts: 1,405
    Don't you like Judge Judy?

    I get as frustrated with her as does the two people in court. Usually they are both guilty of something stupid so she can't really make a bad decision. However I think (granted it's only a 30 minute show) she makes her mind up well before she hears the facts.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I also never owned a bad Japanese car.
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    The Studebaker Gran Turismo is a looker! Now-a-days, there are more and more cars, which are mostly, more and more boring. *yawn*

    Next, we take bets on GM screwing up on the CTS. Will it be a big hit ( _ ) Will it be better looking ( _ ) Will it lose its identity ( _ )
    If it is all of the above, I take it the answer is that they have not screwed up and the car remains a big hit. Personally, the last question is key to me. While it may be better as a car, my long shot guess is that it loses the edge. It will begin to take on other styling trends. At which point it is no longer the Art & Science futuristic, wild and a little shocking style, it once was. It is entirly possible that it will be a hit, and look OK. Not saying it won't. But the first rendition may be the keeper. The 2006, if the 2007 changes enough, may be the collectable car. And the one with the personality. Hard to find personality in this current enviroment. I did not say classic, though I suppose the CTS-V may be one. Just a collector car, like those we see in car shows at the park or on the street.
    -Loren
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    I have never owned a bad car.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,120
    how "bad" a car is really depends on the person's perspective. For instance, my Mom & stepdad's '99 Altima dumped its transmission around 35,000 miles. At the time I thought the car was really a piece of junk. But, they had it replaced under warranty, and now that car has 200,000 miles on it. If they had traded the car soon after the tranny was rebuilt, I would have most likely kept that bad perception I had of it. But the car was given a chance to redeem itself.

    Similarly, my grandparents had a 1982 Malibu Classic wagon. It fried its ECU, out of warranty, and cost about $500 to fix. Then, not too much later, it fried it again. Granddad got fed up and traded it on a new '85 LeSabre. They'd only had the Malibu about 2 1/2 years, and it didn't exactly leave a good impression. Having a 110 hp 229 V-6 in a car that heavy didn't help that impression though. Neither did the fact that the rear door windows didn't roll down. :mad:

    But who knows? Maybe if they'd kept that car longer, overall the ownership experience would have been more pleasant?
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,120
    I've owned a few bad cars, but I really can't blame the cars themselves. Usually by the time I got ahold of them they were well past their prime. And in many cases, older than me! So by this time, how the previous owners treated them probably had more to do with it than who built the car in the first place.

    The only new car I've ever had is my 2000 Intrepid. It hasn't been a bad car. Yet. :shades:
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    If the artists' renderings I've seen of the next CTS are correct, I predict the car will be a big hit and may even draw my attention as a serious candidate as my next purchase. I did drive the current version of the car last year for a weekend. This one was the "plain jane" with the 2.8 V-6 and I wasn't disappointed. It had just about all the features of my Seville STS. The only things I didn't like were the manually operated foot parking brake whereas the one on my Seville is automatic, and the lack of the "Scan" button on the radio. Radio sucks so bad these days, a scan button is a necessity. My arm is ready to fall off from having to keep hitting the "Seek" button.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I wouldn't say I owned any truly "bad" cars. Just that some were not as good as others. My girlfriend had some bad ones. She had a 1991 Mercury Tracer that had to be towed from behind my house twice. The paint was about a million different shades of orange-red and faded and peeling. I hated that 1999 Oldsmobile Cutlass she had. That car taught me why a lot of you guys don't like GM. It was mediocrity personified and nothing that I identified with the once-proud Oldsmobile marque. That car was such a turd that I could leave it running with all four doors open at 2 AM in the worst ghetto in Philly and it would still be there at noon.
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    Radio sucks so bad these days, a scan button is a necessity.

    That's why CDs were invented!

    Regarding the new CTS, does anyone have a solid date for when it will be on sale? I've seen spring 2007 but also fall 2007, so I've been a little confused. :confuse:

    In any case, I assume it will be labeled a 2008 model.
  • socala4socala4 Member Posts: 2,427
    At the rate things are going, several automakers will be launching their 2014 models this September. But I digress...
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    "I also never owned a bad Japanese car."

    More to the point, have you ever owned ANY Japanese car?

    Have you ever stopped to wonder why so many GM detractors HAVE OWNED GM cars in the past - but many of the GM fans have NOT ever owned a Toyota or Honda?

    I'm not saying this is a universal rule; I'm sure you can find a few folks who've owned Toyotas/Hondas and have gone back to GM. But I think they are greatly outnumbered by folks who switched and are happy they did.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Try holding the seek button down a second or two. I think it will then scan.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Seating – GM's next Cadillac CTS will feature slimmer, elegant seats and more leg room. Seat backs are now around 7 inches deep. "Anything beyond 2 inches … is a total waste of space," Lutz said.

    Wow, if the seat is really only 2" thick that could mean another 5" or so of rear seat room.
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    Well, the only GM car I ever owned (used '77 Impala) was decent, but my VW and Ford experience turned me away from those manufacturers. VW -- never again. Ford -- maybe, if they manage to stay in business, but I'd have to think about it hard.
  • nwalker1nwalker1 Member Posts: 17
    I may be wrong becuase I am going off memory here but hasn't Car and Driver named the Cadillac SRX "the best" luxury SUV three years running?
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,120
    "Anything beyond 2 inches … is a total waste of space," Lutz said.

    Somebody needs to tell Lutz to go sit on a cheap kitchen chair, and then a nice, plush Lazy-boy recliner. THEN tell me if a thicker cushion is a waste of space!

    In fact, I think the main reason that so many SUVs, wagons, and minivans have such horrible 2nd and 3rd row seat comfort is because any seat that's designed to fold down is going to be lighter and thinner, and sacrificing comfort.

    Now a thinner cushion/backrest CAN be made more comfortable. But you can't cut corners in making it.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Shoot! Lets bring back the "loose cushion" seats and interior C-pillar pillow of a 1974-78 New Yorker Brougham! I must say, those cars had a very inviting interior. Looks much more comfortable than the stuff in my living room!
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    The XC90 is indeed a nice SUV, but saying it's better than let's say a Escalade is a bit of a stretch. ;)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    I'm sure you can find a few folks who've owned Toyotas/Hondas and have gone back to GM.

    I guess I'm one of the so-called few in that category. ;)
    OTOH I do know quite a few that have left Toyota and Honda for GM, mainly because the local import dealers don't want to deal and had service woes like having to wait 2-3 weeks for service.

    Will I ever buy a Japanese car made in America again ? Maybe. It would take car like a Acura TL Type-S with 300 hp and SH-AWD and still be in the high $30K range loaded out with every important gadget to me. Pontiac could of been the Acura alternative, but somebody at GM let the ball drop and Acura has the market of there niche all to themselves. Not even Lexus's lower end cars can match the value one gets from Acura.

    Rocky
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,120
    Speaking of livingrooms, I have this old Lazyboy recliner that must be about 30 years old, if not more. It's pretty ratty looking, and not the most attractive shade of green. I wanted to throw it out, because I have a newer one packed away that someone gave me, but my roommate protested, not wanting me to throw away his "comfy chair"! He said the newer ones aren't nearly as comfortable. Funny thing is, I've heard other people say the same thing, that the newer chairs just aren't as comfy.

    Maybe there was some thought put behind those old, overstuffed seats of the 70's, after all?
  • bhw77bhw77 Member Posts: 101
    I had Honda (and also Nissan,Mitsubishi, Ford) and switched
    to GM car after 13 years not owned GM car.
    And you know what? Then time comes to replace this car with a new one GM will have to wait at least another 13 years (if ever)...
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    What GM car do you own that you obviously dislike ?

    Rocky
  • alp8alp8 Member Posts: 656
    I have nothing against the SRX. I think it is great for what it does. But I needed a bit more capability (and my wife refused to drive a Cadillac and she is the primary driver). But it can not be called an SUV. It ain't an "SUV" unless you can take it on a dirt, forest service road, and I would not do that in an SRX (but I would in an XC90)

    the SRX would be a great snow vehicle, but not a great fishing vehicle. Make sense?
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    rorr, it's just hard to go from Honda to GM. I am pretty sure GM cars are not that bad but compare to a Honda, then they appear worse then they really are. It'll be an easier transaction say to go from a Ford (or Chrysler/Dodge) to GM.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/06/08/interior-of-the-year-award-winners-announ- ced/#more-2982

    Very interesting. On one side is the media and the other "industry at large" whatever that is. Someone here is biased. Employees of OEMs representing nominated vehicles are not allowed to vote.

    http://www.autointeriors.com/awards/
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    I have, :sick: and it was my first car! :cry:
    Sit back as I tell the woeful tale of the 1980 Chevrolet Citation. :lemon:

    It was a 2.8 V6 automatic titled in April 1979, making it a very early example. Grandma was getting old and couldn't really drive anymore, so she gave it to me in 1993 with about 55,000 miles on it.

    That thing was a hunk of junk. It didn't idle right, the hard foam interior panels were crumbling, the exterior trim fell off, the tires dry-rotted and peeled off their tread one by one, the fuel pump broke, the electric fan broke and the car overheated, the driver's side mirror wore out, braking and turning the wheel at the same time would stall the engine, the brake hose collapsed and chewed up two rotors, the parking brake did nothing, the AC was long gone, and lots more like that. It rode like the beam-axle slopbox it was, the transmission refused to downshift out of overdrive on hills, and you had to floor it and wait for 2-3 seconds before it would kick down to "banshee wail" on flat roads.

    I drove it for 18 months or so before I went off to college, and it cascaded down to my sister then my brother. My brother was driving it home one day and a huge cloud of smoke poured out the back. The engine was still running, so he limped it home. The tranny had let go and spooged all over the exhaust pipe with less than 80k on the clock, so it went to the junkyard where it belonged.

    It was exactly what I expected from a domestic car.
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Very interesting. I would consider the Mustang as one of the worse instrument clusters. And the Fusion as a good solid interior, but not anything rich like Japan or German. Not saying it is bad, but wonder how it was added to the interior best of? These were among the semi-finalists?

    Winner Pontiac Solstice for Interior in class? Humm?
    Hey Tribeca won an interior award! That's good - at least the inside looks good. :) And the Land Rover gets an award - yeah, yippy, now work on reliability issues :P Oh my goodness, Mustang won for instrument cluster! Interesting-- not really.

    -Loren
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,120
    It was exactly what I expected from a domestic car.

    To be fair, I'd say that was more the status quo of a 1979 era car, regardless of whether it was domestic or import! Heck, in college I had a buddy who had a 1980 Accord, and your Citation sounds like a quality piece of engineering in comparison! This Accord was dead by around late 1989/early 1990, when its SECOND automatic transmission went out on it. Oh, it was on its second engine, too. Interior was falling apart. Rust holes the size of some Midwestern states blossomed from under its still-shiny paint. Air conditioning didn't work. 0-60 in about 30 seconds, with three people on board.

    Also, sometimes old age simply gets to a car. A 14 year old car is a 14 year old car, no matter how low mileage it is. But, let me not try to defend it TOO much. After all, it was a Citation...the most recalled car in history! :blush: I heard the Focus took over that title, though, but I dunno if it took that title in # of recalls, or # of cars recalled. The former, I'm guessing, because even by now I doubt if Ford has sold as many Focuses as GM did X-bodies.

    Also, are you sure it had overdrive? Or do you mean "overdrive" to just mean top gear? I didn't think GM came out with a FWD 4-speed automatic until 1985, and even then I don't think it trickled down into the cheaper cars until a few years later, after the Citation was long gone.
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    That was the Car of the Year ! And the X Body was the GM car of the future! So much for the Citation.... and Vega, and Corvair (like the looks of the last ones), and the Fiero, and the plastic Saturns, and....

    A Corvair or Fiero retro look, with a mid-engine would be cool, but alas, little sales no doubt. The Solstice and Sky look and drive well, and seem to hit the mark. Wish they were a tad bigger and coupes; would consider those two. Seen some with ridiculous side sticker prices on them. Yeah, like those are gonna be hot collector car items. Value and re-sale values may possibly stay up for another couple of years. Would I pay thousands more -- no way!
    Good little car, if it had a roll bar, and air conditioning for $20K. But $25K to $30k - dream on!
    -Loren
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    Hmmm. The Citation drove like it had a crappy OD slushbox, but it seems that the THM125C was just a regular old 3-speed after all.

    As for the age thing, the SE-R is 15 years old now and it is an infinitely better car than the Citation was, even with 3x the mileage (also infinitely better than a 15-year-old '92 Cavalier).
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    $20,000 would get you two of the world's most pristine, ultra-low-mile, mid-'90s 240SXs. Whoever successfully revives the 'S' formula will have to ask Uncle Scrooge if they can borrow the engineering drawings for his money bin.
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Yeah, Japan dropped a lot of cool cars over the years. The 240SX, had RWD, great handling, a four banger for gas mileage ( how about a V6 some day ). They should bring that car back. Oh yeah, unlike the 350Z it did not have sky high doors. A coupe, with a trunk, sporty looks and handling for say $18K for a four and $20K for six in a base model would be awesome. I think the price got away on this one, if recalling correctly. They used that truck engine, like in the Altima, which is crude sounding no doubt, but has the torque.
    -Loren
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    "Maybe GM should buy the tool and dies from Honda and build the Chevy RSX! I'd buy one!"

    Well, if you did buy one, you'd find GM had replaced the fine Honda engine with the 3800 pushrodder. Cheaper, ya know.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Exactly, Andre. Lutz should go rent a Volvo, and sit in the seat for a while, then go sit in a G-6, and tell me 2 inches of padding is fine.
  • grbeckgrbeck Member Posts: 2,358
    I can't say that I've ever had a bad car...I've owned several Hondas and a 1972 Olds Cutlass Supreme Holiday coupe. The Olds was 20 years old when I bought it, and it still ran strong.

    My parents had a succession of Oldsmobile 88s, starting with a 1967 Delmont 88. After Olds was discontinued, they switched to a Buick Park Avenue, and then bought one of the last Bravadas. Not one of them was bad, either.

    Those GM vehicles were not, however, the kind of vehicle that I would choose for myself.

    The only truly bad car I remember was my father's 1973 AMC Gremlin. It was badly built, unreliable and so cheaply trimmed it made a port-a-john look luxurious. I learned to drive on that car. After driving that Gremlin, I can say that it's no wonder that AMC eventually was bought by Chrysler, and (what was left of) AMC's passenger car business then disappeared.
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