General Motors discussions

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  • cccompsoncccompson Member Posts: 2,382
    I think it's the same here in the Midwest, at least in the suburbs. Out in the countryside, it's different though - American cars still rule.

    Why anyone would care about what others think is something I've never understood.
  • grbeckgrbeck Member Posts: 2,358
    Around here, there are still plenty of large domestic SUVs in upscale suburbs.

    Interestingly, the GMC Yukon and Chevy Tahoe/Suburban appear to be more popular in upscale areas than the Cadillac Escalade. :confuse:
  • grabowskygrabowsky Member Posts: 74
    The Yukon Denali is the upscale choice in this part of California. The Escalade is getting the rep of being a blingmobile for rappers and sports stars.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    "I do see a huge quality difference bumpy. The Azera has a interior straight out of my grandmothers 1995 Buick Rivera"

    But, Rocky - that 95 Riv had a very nice interior, compared to, oh, say the friggin 06 Lucerne!! Lots nicer.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    "But the owner seemed happy with the car."

    BMWs have been and continue to be fragile, so to speak. IOW, they need frequent maintenance. So do Mercedes, by the way. The Germans don't see a problem with maintenance - that's normal to them. Pretty much the same all over Europe. It's only the Japanese who are consumed with perfection and reliability. The Germans build to go fast, and go long, but not without maintenance. The Japanese try to imitate the German style, but it HAS to hold up perfectly, even if it's not going to drive like a Bimmer. Maybe it's enough if it looks like one? Sorta?

    People who love their BMWs are in love with the status it holds, not it's reliability, like Cadillac USED to hold. But no longer does. It's an esoteric thing, but it's real, and tangible. BMW and Mercedes cast the longest shadow now. Lexus may be 3rd, or Jaguar. Infiniti is coming up a bit. Acura is near luxury, but pretty hot now. I don't know. Where the hell is Cadillac anyway?
  • fred222fred222 Member Posts: 200
    The Yukon Denali is the upscale choice in this part of California. The Escalade is getting the rep of being a blingmobile for rappers and sports stars

    I would guess that you have less chance of getting carjacked or having your vehicle stolen if it is the GMC or Chevy vs. the Cadillac. Just self preservation working.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    U R right, fred.... I had an Escalade for a while back in 04.... We would go places in Utah - the neighbors around would all wonder what a middle aged white couple with a Bush 04 Sticker on the back were doing in that car!!! I got rid of it.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,799
    Some of the uppity trophy wives around here have Denalis and Slades...but the Lexus lineup seems more popular, along with BMW and MB.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Yeah, but that's not me and the wife, trust me.
    The trophys have both tarnished a lot.

    Around here, those blonde soccor mom uppity trophy wives are in Navigators and LX470s, and the X5 of course.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    I like the Lucerne interior personaly over the plasticky Rivera, even though back in the day the Riv was a nice ride. ;)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    I ran against him in my grandma's 94' Seville and his Infinti I believe was a 93 or 94' model year. This race was done like 6 or 7 years ago. The 0-60 on the 94 was 6.4 seconds. I didn't blow him away but did beat him by a hood length in the quarter mile. ;)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    The LT-5 design was the inspiration of the Northstar development. GM wanted a cost-effective engine that wasn't expensive to build like like the German engineered LT-5. The LT-5 was free of gaskets and was precision built to fit. Most of my family was involved in making engine parts for the Northstar. I remember dad telling me all about it like it was some top secret project as a kid. :shades:

    Rocky
  • torque_rtorque_r Member Posts: 500
    Speaking of which, the 4.6L Northstar is now about 15 years old. And although it's still an excellent engine, It's being seriously overshadowed by 360+ hp new comers. Retire the engine and bring a second generation Northstar with 5.0L, standard 6-speed, and 375+ hp and torque.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    I agree pal. ;)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    DETROIT — A worker exodus of historic proportions is expected to cut GM's annual operating costs by about $1 billion. However, it's leaving the automaker scrambling to juggle each factory's staffing needs, a tricky proposition at dozens of plants that are not slated to close.

    Initially, only 20,000 - 25,000 GM and Delphi workers were expected to accept buyouts and early retirement as part of a large cost-cutting effort to restore the world's largest automaker to prosperity.

    "These numbers are higher than we had budgeted," said GM CEO Rick Wagoner. "It makes us more cost competitive and this is for sure going to free up resources to be able to invest even more in products and technology."

    GM is now able to beat its target of cutting 30,000 jobs in North America by the end of 2008, more than two years ahead of schedule. To ease the transition to a smaller workforce, the automaker has started hiring temporary workers at some plants for about $18 per hour without benefits. Traditional union workers cost GM about $81 an hour in 2005, including benefits and retirement costs, according to Bloomberg.

    What this means to you: GM is making good progress toward getting its finances in order, a good first step which should help put more cash where it's needed most — into its products.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    I hope Uncle Rick, isn't blowing smoke and does invest more R&D savings in products and technology. ;)

    Rocky
  • irnmdnirnmdn Member Posts: 245
    What this means to you: GM is making good progress toward getting its finances in order, a good first step which should help put more cash where it's needed most — into its products.

    I like the spin on that.
    What this really means to all: The ship is sinking and there won't be enough life boats soon.
  • irnmdnirnmdn Member Posts: 245
    With sincere apologies to those who bought earlier thinking incentives were a thing of past, GM will offer zero percent financing for up to six years on most Chevrolet, Buick, Pontiac and GMC.
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060628/ap_on_bi_ge/auto_incentives

    GM is blowing serious wad of cash to offer 0% APR at todays prime rate. Rocky, you now know where uncle Rick will be investing the 'savings'.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    They make $14 per hour to replace workers who earned up to $27 and retired, took buyout.

    Delphi Corp., the biggest U.S. auto-parts maker, hired 2,000 temporary workers to replace thousands of more expensive union members who are taking early retirement or buyouts.

    The temporary employees are being trained at U.S. plants before moving into jobs held by United Auto Workers members, Delphi spokesman Lindsey Williams said in an interview Tuesday. Most temporary hires will earn $14 an hour rather than the $27 now paid to union workers.

    Delphi, which filed for Chapter 11 protection for its U.S. operations Oct. 8, said that 12,600 workers accepted retirement offers made in March, and it expects more to take buyouts under a June program. The company is trimming employment to reduce costs under its plan to exit bankruptcy by mid-2007.

    "There should be some short-term loss of productivity but the lower wages rates should more than compensate," said Morgan Keegan & Co. fixed-income analyst Pete Hastings.

    Williams said that "ample time is available to train new or temporary employees prior to many of our employees departing, which will occur throughout the year."

    UAW spokesman Paul Krell couldn't be reached to comment.

    The company doesn't yet know how many workers it will need as a result of the departures, Williams said.

    Delphi is in the process of closing 21 of its 29 U.S. manufacturing sites, and some of the remaining plants may not need as many workers because the company also is exiting product lines.

    "The focus may now be on the numbers of people, but the overriding issue for us is obtaining a comprehensive agreement with our unions," Williams said.

    Delphi is in talks with the UAW and five other unions over proposed changes including cutting hourly wages to as low as $12.50.

    http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060628/AUTO01/606280353/1148
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Step-dad and aunt are 2 of them. ;)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    I'm not sure exactly where but I can think of a few places. China and Mexico ? Or wait on the next generation Aztec :sick:

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    I hope the ship doesn't sink. It will be catasrophic to this country if it does. :cry:

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Demand, prices on its models rise

    General Motors Corp.'s revival of 0% financing won't be enough to keep the automaker's U.S. vehicle sales in June and July from dropping to "brutal" levels compared with a year ago, when employee discounts sent results soaring, a top GM sales executive said Tuesday.

    However, the automaker, which capped its cost-cutting drive Monday by announcing that about 35,000 U.S. hourly workers have agreed to retire or quit, nevertheless sees some good signs on the sales front.

    In June last year, GM's U.S. sales soared nearly 50% after the automaker launched its Employee Discount for Everyone program, offering the general public the same prices GM employees pay. GM results were the strongest since September 1986.

    This year, GM has eased off incentives and cut vehicle prices, causing sales to drop about 8% during the first five months of the year.

    "Our year-over-year comparisons are going to be especially brutal," GM sales chief Mark LaNeve said Tuesday. "June and July aren't going to be a picnic."

    Stock prices of GM and other companies in the auto industry fell Tuesday after GM announced its new incentives. GM shares, which have climbed about 28% since the beginning of the year, closed at $25.90, down $1.85, or 6.7%, on the New York Stock Exchange.

    Despite the drop in shares Tuesday, several Wall Street analysts raised their earnings estimates for GM on Tuesday after more workers than expected took the automaker's attrition package.

    Ford Motor Co. and the Chrysler Group also will post weaker sales in June, said Art Spinella, president of Bandon, Ore.-based CNW Marketing Research.

    "The year over year is going to look miserable," he said.

    Toyota Motor Co., thanks to strong sales, particularly of its Camry midsize car, might be the only major automaker to post improved results in June, Spinella said.

    Automakers are scheduled to report June sales Monday.

    Despite the poor results, GM sees growing demand for its new models, such as the Pontiac Solstice, Chevrolet HHR and Saturn Sky, which are selling about as fast as GM can build them.

    Consumers also are willing to spend more on GM vehicles. The average price paid for a GM vehicle during the first five months of the year was $26,431, up $1,200. The industry average was a rise of $365 for a price of $25,908.

    In addition, GM is no longer fighting news reports about a possible bankruptcy, which hurt sales five or six months ago, LaNeve said.

    The focus is beginning to shift from GM's many cost-cutting measures outlined over the past few months -- including the hourly and salaried job cutbacks and the plant closings -- to vehicle sales.

    This week, Chrysler, which already offers 0% financing for five years on many of its vehicles, will roll out a new summer incentive program that's expected to revive employee pricing and provide a 30-day money-back guarantee.

    Even if Chrysler offers employee discounts, don't expect GM to follow.

    "We're not planning on reviving employee pricing," GM's LaNeve said. "I personally don't think it's going to work as well. I think last year was somewhat of a phenomenon, the likes of which we'll never see again."

    GM will begin offering 0% financing for up to six years on most of its 2006 models on Thursday, with the sale running through July 5.

    "I think GM is hoping that this is the buy-now signal" for consumers, said Mark McCready, director of pricing strategy and market analysis for CarsDirect.com, a Los Angeles-based car-buying and research site.

    Ford has been offering a similar deal on most of its 2006 Ford brand vehicles and will stick with its program through the end of July, spokesman Jim Cain said.

    Cisco Codina, group vice president of Ford Marketing, Sales and Service, said Ford is going to chart its own course on incentives and is pleased with its incentive program, which started at the beginning of June. Typically, Ford has followed GM incentive programs.

    "We, perhaps, may have caught them a bit off guard," he said Tuesday.

    Automakers typically add incentives during the summer months in order to clear space before next year's models arrive in the fall and to cut costs of carrying car and truck inventories.

    http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2006606280302

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Loren, you might be right about this might be the time to buy a 2006' since they seem to be throwing in the farm if you buy a Tahoe. :surprise:

    Rocky
  • chuck1959chuck1959 Member Posts: 654
    The Riv may have been a nice ride...but if your talking about the last generation. IMO it was but ugly! I never understood how they sold as few as they did.
  • chuck1959chuck1959 Member Posts: 654
    Yeah it looks pretty cool. Who thinks it's going to give the Mustang it first REAL competition in years? A Firebird/Trans Am edition also?
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Pontiac will probably get a non pony car coupe to bring back the GTO or Firebird name. The new RWD platform will spawn a bunch of vehicles, many with retro cues.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    I liked the last generation Riveria. The ones before it were flat out ugly IMO. :P

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    The Dodge Challenger is coming out before the Camaro as a 2008 model to challenge the Stang. ;)

    I doubt we will see a Trans-Am for atleast 4-5 years.

    Rocky
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I kind of liked the design of the last Riviera's interior. It looked like they were going for the flavor of the original 1963-65 but it looked barren. It desperately needed splashes of REAL wood and brightwork. It would've looked totally awesome.

    The previous-gen Riviera was lame with that GCC, (Graphic Control Center). I knew a guy who had one of those Rivieras. His name actually was Mr. Lancia. You'd think he'd have one of his namesake cars.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    I think it's "possible" the G8 could be renamed Trans-Am. I know it wouldn't go over well with me either so release the slack on the trigger. :P I'm not convinced there is enough room for 2 pony icons at GM yet unless they make the Trans-Am like you said a non pony car, but wouldn't that ruin the icon. Could 4 doors be used on the Trans-Am name ? Dodge seems to somehow get away with it on the Charger. I think the GTO could fair better with 4 doors than a Trans-Am name IMO. I wish like many the Trans-Am could be the luxury version of the Camaro and get all the bells and whistles and it be sophisticated. Maybe Dodge Stealth-ish in a way having 4-WS, DVD-Audio, Voice Recognition, etc etc to compete with the Mustang based Lincoln since Buick refuses to make the Velite. I know I'm just throwing pie into the sky on this subject, but I guess it's a neat topic to talk about.

    I'd like to hear some of ya'lls opinions. ;)

    Rocky
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    ...I got to see the Camaro concept at the GM Nationals in Carlisle this past Saturday. It was really cool and nicer in person than it is in pics. I just hope GM doesn't dumb it down, decontent it, or overprice it.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Well lemko, I can agree with that pal. The perfect Buick like I've said before and I'll say it again is my dream General Motors vehicle The Buick Velite Roadster. Seriously lemko, I can picture my wife, I, and the kids cruising to The Palo Duro Canyon, or taking them to the zoo, top down and smooth crusing. :shades: I would give my left arm to own a Velite pal. I don't know why I love that vehicle so much but I just do. Please GM build it. :cry:

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Wow, lucky dog. I'd love to see it in person :) I hope the same thing about them potentially ruining it. Did ya get to hear it start up ? Man that thing sounds bad through computer speakers, in person :surprise:

    Rocky
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    ...of any of the GM concepts, I can picture my girlfriend and I going for a night on the town in Philly driving the Cadillac Sixteen as envious admirers look on.

    I didn't get to hear them start up the Camaro. I imagine it would've been awesome.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Lemko, you have very expensive tastes. The Sixteen will be prices like a S600 at the very least if it see production. :P

    My ride is atleast somewhat logical and affordable unless you won the lottery and your not sharing. :P The Velite when it was suppose to see production was going to be priced in the low-mid $40K range. ;)

    Rocky
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    ...that they were going to make the next Impala look like the 1967 model. Now THAT is something I would absolutely LOVE! I could see myself in something like that. The current Impala looks like a revival of a 1995 Lumina.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,753
    I thought the Velite was a two-seater like the Solstice.

    <I can picture my wife, I, and the kids cruising

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Yeah I heard that same rumor of the next RWD Impala getting some retro 67' flavoring. ;) The current Impala isn't so bad if you get the SS model. However it would be much better in RWD. ;)

    Rocky
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    The latest Road and Track has a short take on the Camaro concept car. Their discussions with GM executives regarding a production Camaro indicated that a sales volume of 100,000 annually is required to make it profitable. So a V6 is required at the very least, and perhaps more than one engine would be needed besides the big engine.
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    I owned one of these. While the body styling was interesting, the size of the car was large. The plastics on the doors were not very luxurious and the rear seat area was quite plain. The Aurora was better in that there was some wood trim and the rear doors had a bit more style than the same back seat area on the Riviera, but the plastics in the Aurora were even less luxurious than the Riviera's.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    I can solve the problem easily. Use the turbo ecotec 4 cylinder as the base engine, and the LS-7 as the SS/I-Roc/Z-28/SL-1, "(whatever) the premium trim model will be" ;)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    The 2nd generation 01'+ Aurora is nicer than the first generation IMO.

    Rocky
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    Read the article on Camaro in Detroit News link. There was something odd about a quote from a 53 year-old woman. She said: "It was a '69 model that was jacked up and painted baby blue on the underside," said Anderson, a 53-year-old hair stylist from Southfield. "The guy who owned it was hot, but the car was the real reason I went out with him. I sat in the middle and shifted while he drove."

    Maybe GM will have a hit if they bring it out as is style-wise. Base price will have to be low to be affordable to younger people. Will be interesting to see demos of purchasers. Will it be a mix of late teens, some professionals, baby boomers, Nascar types. Will young single women want one?

    As far as cool, latest Mustang still has better style then would-be Camaro. Mustang was cooler than Camaro in late 60's and still would be. Note that Steve McQueen used Mustang fastback in Bullit movie rather than the kind of chunky Camaro of the time.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    But the funny thing xrunner is the Camaro has and always will win the race for titles match. ;)

    Rocky

    P.S. Disagree the Camaro/Trans-Am are the real pony cars. Not even this current Mustang had the following that this Camaro has. ;)
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    The R&T article indicated that their problem is getting the zeta-platform reworked to make an entry level V6 Camaro priced low enough to compete with the Mustang. The Camaro would have an independent rear suspension. Plus, if they can get the zeta platform worked out, some sedans can be built on the platform too. I think that a pushrod V6 would be standard, the 3.9 perhaps. Then I would say that a 5.3 V8 would be a sensible option for those who want more power, but don't want the big engine. The direct injection 3.6 would also be a good option.
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