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I would like to list my MPG for info/input:
Tank 1...36.96
Tank 2...42.13
Partial..42.05
Tank 3...39.88
Tank 4...39.99
There is no question I have modified my driving habits to get these MPG numbers. Some say I drive like an 'old man' now! I say I drive to reduce dependency on foreign oil, do more for the environment and reduce my costs.
My driving on the Interstate is typically 65 on shorter trips and 70 on business trips. I drive the speed limit or within 5 MPH of the speed limit in most other areas.
It is amazing how 'quickly' you become a MPG guage watcher, as others suggested would happen. My wife has not yet driven the car, but sure likes the mileage.
Toyota finally sent my XM items and that is now installed. It is great to have three 'SAT' modes for storing your favorite channels. The navigation is simply outstanding, much better than I had in my VW Phaeton that I had prior to this car.
3.5 months of ownership, 9400 miles, I checked the difference in 38.7 mpg for the TCH and 16.3 for the Infiniti FX45 with the infiniti gas costing 15 cents minimum more, and the difference in gallons used is 333.8 gallons or $1087 SAVINGS in just 3.5 months!
My payment went from $630/mo to $410/mo or another $220/month savings.
I still have $2600 in Federal Tax Credits and $3750 in State tax Credits (over three years) coming to me.
When I drive I have a lot of "gliding" minutes on my consumption screen. Is it possible that when the engine is idling and a FE of 60+ is showing that possibly the computer is not doing a very good job of measuring the flow rate????
I know that with most measurements the meter has a range of accuracy within certain parameters of flow. Perhaps it does not do well with the 60+ readings? On my wife's trip she had only a few of these minutes at 60+ but was still getting overall good FE and the indicated was close to actual. When I drive I try to get the ICE off or at 60+ a lot and I'm usually off from the indicated.
Thoughts?
I think until the advent of GPS units everyone had speedo errors and were unaware of them. Now everyone is aware. I don't think they can actually recalibrate this error.
Think I'm now on my 3rd tank of gas.
There are some numbers that haven't been adding up and I think I know now why.
Cruising range. I think the manual says that the value here should be from an empty tank. I increasingly think that it's from where you filled from last. In my case, this is almost always 1/4 (or rather, more correctly considering the way Totyota has marked the major [blue] tick marks 13/16 [a true 3/4 would of course be 12/16]).
Why do I think so? You (of course) reset the trip odometer each time you fill up. OK you drive for a while and let's say you eyeball the gas gauge and decide that you're spot on 1/2.
You then add the trip odo reading to Cruising Range.
For me, this comes out consistenly too low (and so the inferred mpg is low). 27, 28 mpg when in fact I've been getting around 34 (all short drives so far and I live in a very hilly area in the SF E Bay).
On the other hand, if I scale the tank value (17.2) by 13./16., I get just about the corret number (high 33 mpg close to 34).
Can anyone confirm this? Is this a bug? Etc.
If this is the case, and it's supposed to be the case that Cruising Range assumes the full tank (17.2 g), then it might possibly just be a programming change to fix (I'm a programmer).
Or it might be some kind of combination possibly of programming and sensor(s) (hardware).
pat
Recalculated. Yes that would do it exactly. Dividing TripOdo+CrusingRange by not 17.2 but 14.2 gives another 33 mpg number. Close enough.
And over time and with more measured tanks that will help further in convincing me of this number.
Other claims of high 30s and low 40s have me a little disappointed with even 34.
But then I chalk it up to at least 2 things: 1) only short trips so far (my commute is 8 miles one way) 2) I live in a very hilly part of the SF E Bay. You're never on a flat surface. And many of the hills, while short, are quite steep. Hills eat up mpg. You don't recover in kinetic energy what you just built up (climbing the hill) in potential energy. Friction, etc.
And while the surface you live on (the western edge of the Great Plains is inclined) it's nevertheless flat (but sloping). Or at most, rolls slightly. Is this correct?
See the tips forum for suggestions. I'm averaging 38.9mpg but I do work at it. However even on my trip over the mountains in the eastern part of the state I was able to average 36.
I live in a very hilly part of the SF E Bay
I live in West Virginia. Believe me it's hilly. HOWEVER, I realize in a hilly section of a city you might not get the advantage of long grades up and down. My battery is charging much of the time when I'm climbing hills and when I do hit the flats I am able to glide with a full charge. I do get relief from trips where it's just rolling terrain and the TCH does real well on that.
g
I hope you never are involved in an accident and have some lawyer find that comment.
From an energy perspective coasting in neutral downhill, where the system would normally be charging the battery makes little sense. The cost to idle the ICE for that small distance can't be worth the loss of battery charge and the liability of operating your car in a dangerous mode. I don't find the drag on the level to be significant, but going downhill my TCH usually accelerates with my foot lifted from the throttle so the problems with drag on a downhill slope are not a factor, you're simply saving the cost of fuel for an idle engine.
I checked the tires because we are about to take a long trip and I checked them cold and with an accurate digital tire guage. They are all 36.0 now.. Lesson learned here.
Check them yourself when tires are cold !
:mad:
I had my front end aligned this past week. I expressed my disapointment to the dealer in that when I had my tires rotated at 5000 miles the tires were cupping and they didn't do anything, thus the tires now on the front are also cupped before I noticed. Fortunately they are not badly cupped and are not making noise or causing any shimmy.
Moral: Don't trust the dealer to do things for you
Hint: Always remember to unscrew the wheel lock nut first and screw it last when rotating your tires...
Drive 10,000 miles @ $3 per gallon avg 25 mpg=$1200
Drive 10,000 miles @ $3 per gallon avg 45 mpg=$666
You save $534 with the hybrid
Factor in the higher price you'll have to drive 149,800 miles to break even.Oh yeah and you'll need to replace the 4 batteries at least once @ $4000 a piece. Hybrids do not pay at all. Please people wake up!
See this article that originated from Edmunds:
http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=technologyNews&storyID=2006-- 08-22T212530Z_01_N22263287_RTRUKOC_0_US-AUTOS-HYBRIDS.xml
The consumer-focused Web site said that assuming vehicles were driven 15,000 miles per year and gas was priced at $3 per gallon, owners of the Toyota Prius and Ford Motor Co.'s (F.N: Quote, Profile, Research) Escape Hybrid would break even within three years.
Buyers of the Saturn Vue Green Line from General Motors Corp.(GM.N: Quote, Profile, Research), the Toyota Camry and the Civic Hybrid from Honda Motor Co.(7267.T: Quote, NEWS, Research) would break-even within six years, Edmunds.com said.
Let's say the Escape get's 50mpg @15k/$3 per gal=$900
@25 mpg=$1125 3 years you save $675.....How is that breaking even?
Also your car insurance goes up as well so mathmaticaly speaking I am still right!
The TAX INCENTIVES are not taken into account in merely the fuel calculations.
READ THE ARTICLE.
If the car insurance goes up in a Hybrid Escape over a V6 Escape it will not be much.
PS. And so far, no one I know or have heard about has had to pay full price for ANY hybrid battery replacement, and with more than 600,000 hybrids on the road worldwide, there have been VERY VERY few replacements.
None of which have been paid for in full by the car owner.
even with the whole $400 tax credit you can't break even
Think of how much less trade in value will be with 120,000 miles and the original battery packs.
Over 80K the batteries are the OWNER's responsibilty
Your comp and collison avg 20% higher because of the cost of the battery packs and how easy it is to totsl the car in a frontal impact
But I had an 07 V6 XLE Camry, and got 30 mpg. I sold it back to Toyota for tranny problems and bought a Hybrid for the same money, albeit with a little less lux (no interior faux wood, a bit slower, no sunroof, and a few other things). I am getting 40 mpg. There is the luxury of green driving, with 80% fewer emissions, and since I drive a lot (2500 miles a month) I will save $700 a year in gas and also get a $2300 savings in tax credits. It gets me to where I want to go in the same time and I can carry the same number of passengers, and it has the same look and feel as my old XLE with less acceleration. Of course, if you compare this car with a 4 cylinder XLE, the tax credit will be offset by the lower cost of the 4, but then the 4 is slower, and the mileage is not as good, and the pollution is worse. The battery issue is a concern to some extent, but they apparently last a long time.
So, if you drive a lot, it is worth it as far as money is concerned, but if you don't it isn't. But if you care about reduced emissions and gas consumption then it might be even if it costs you more.
Converted hybrid owner.
I think there will be some credits even after they go away because politics drives politicians to do more to encourage alternatives to the internal combustion engine.
HONDAs from personal experience... tooooo many issues, but I have been owning new Toyotas for the last 16 years and amazingly never had issues the same level I experienced withHONDAs and cost me so much money in trade in...As an FYI, I am going to trade in my 2006 4Runner V8 LTD 4WD for (you guessed it right) a fully loaded beautiful 2007 Toyota Camry Blue Ribbon Metallic/Ash Leather and DID NOT/DO NOT/WILL NOT regret a bit and will save the environment from being over polluted... hope you get the point me and others tried to make, if not, no harm feelings.
It's not all about economics. There are various reasons we each have for buying a hybrid. Please do not assume we're all uneducated and can't do math.
Folks, he doesn't know what he's talking about. Just ignore the troll and hopefully he'll go away.
tom
I'm not sure what that says about the 4th generation HSD system. Have they scaled back the EV mode scenarios so much to protect the longevity of the battery? Or is the 3300 pound TCH just too heavy for the battery to be used effectively at lower speeds?
Very interesting development which provokes questions.....:D
These forums are not the place to fight out personal disagreements, or hurl insults.
If you find yourself about to make such a post, please don't.
even with the whole $400 tax credit you can't break even It's a $2600 TAX CREDIT
Oh yeah and you'll need to replace the 4 batteries at least once $4000 a piece No reason to believe this or that they will be that expensive when and if a replacement is ever needed.
Hybrids run 4 to 5 thousand dollars more than normally aspirated counterparts Past posts show a similarly equiped Camry is within spittin range of a TCH.
Over 80K the batteries are the OWNER's responsibilty 100,000 or 150,000 depending on where you live
Also your car insurance goes up as well ,Your comp and collison avg 20% higher Mine went down.
This is so good, the owner who took a risk, purchased a Prius a few years ago, put a quarter of a million kilometers on it (without battery or other probems), just got a brand new Prius from Toyota as a trade for his old one. This is a true story in British Columbia Canada, I was told that Toyota purchased back a total of 10 cars with the other 8 coming from the Vancouver BC area.
Cheers, Tom
I believe the payback issue needs an apples-to-apples comparison. I disliked the 4-cyl and would have bought an SE V6. Buying the Hybrid made me save $ 2,000 and I got dual-zone air conditionning, powered passenger seat, etc. The hybrid has already paid itself back. And I will get a $ 1,000 tax credit.
My latest tank I obtained the best MPG performance yet at 42.33 MPG. I think my coworkers miss the Phaeton to ride in, but I do not miss the stops at the gas station. On this tank I went 604 miles before refueling.
I enjoyed demonstrating the FX45 on curvy roads and my friends thought I had lost it. However they realize I have a fondness for the "different" and am "cheap" so it's probably not a big surprise for them to see me in the hybrid and for me to start "downsizing" as I approach my retirement years.
I thought I would miss the FX but so far I have not looked back.
95% of my driving is on the highway at 65 to 70 mph.
I thought I would miss the FX but so far I have not looked back."
I have a FX45 that I bought new in 2003 and it is approaching 60,000 miles - have had zero problems with it. I'm considering the TCH as a third car for commuting, errands and general around-town driving, but plan to keep the FX for towing my boat and other situations where I need the extra space.
At the risk of offending some with an off topic comment, I went ahead and traded the FX because I couln't justify a third vehicle expense just to have the FX for "Sunday driving". I have an SUV for towing and winter weather and while the FX could have performed those functions, the 20 wide tires didn't lend themselves to good winter driving and as I really didn't want to have this as my tow vehicle (I tow a tractor as well as dual jet skis). I decided to keep my fleet at 2 vehicles.
I haven't test driven the TCH yet, but from all reports it's a very safe car and should be a little easier for a teenager to handle. It's a little more compact and not TOO fast, plus from everyones' comments it seems to encourage judicious use of the gas peddle...
P.S. to wvgasguy: I have an extra set of wheels/winter tires (18") and the FX handles great in the snow here in Minnesota!
It's got a lot of safety features to make you feel better with her on the road AND being a teenager her friends may think it's cool to be GREEN. She may take an interest in "learning to drive" a hybrid and really save you money (say over the Mustang, MonteCarlo SS and 300ZX I had my kids in)
P.S. Thanks wvgasguy - I would only add that she's mentioned a hybrid several times, but she's also eyeing any and all BMW's that we see on the road. To which I respond, like, I'm sure she's going to get one of those! (the first car I ever bought with my own money was a '67 BMW 1600 - don't remember what kind of mileage I got, back when gasoline sold for 35 cents a gallon, but I DO remember how much parts cost when something broke!) :mad:
While in CA, we took a short day trip up to Monterey Park, a suburb of L.A. (shudder! sorry, Angelinos, don't have much use for L.A.) and back to our accomodations in S.D. This portion of our long weekend trip included part freeway, 70 mph, part PCH (Pacific coast highway) 45 mph, with stops in Laguna Beach, and Newport Beach, and then surface streets 30-45 mph w/lots of traffic lights... about every 1/2 to 1 mile from Newport Beach to Monterey Park... and then 70 mph freeways back to S.D. All with the use of A/C. It was in the mid 90's away from the immediate coast in so cal. This leg of our trip returned 41.0 mph.
The return trip from S.D. to Tucson, again all freeway, and 75-80 mph with A/C and cruise control set, yielded 36.9. I figure there might have been some headwinds, and it was basicaly "up hill" overall, as S.D is sea level, and Tucson is 2800 ft. Again, the same elevation changes, 5,000 ft mountain passes, and below sea level in El Centro.
Overall, I am extremely pleased with the performance, and fuel enonomy of this Hi Tech vehicle.
Oh, btw, the climb from below sea level to 5,000 feet, includes a very steep climb out of the desert. Using cruise control on this grade, all of my previous vehicles would shift back and forth (as far down as 3rd gear in my 05 Highlander 5 speed automatic 3.3LV6) "hunting" for the right gear, and the speed would vary by up to 10 mph..... The TCH just smoothly maintained the pre-set speed, without any drama. SWEET!
And the sound system is incredible! iPod allowed no commercials, a fabulous sound.
When can I take another trip?
I just totaled our Honda Pilot. It was a great vehicle, and a much better value for the dollar than the toyota hylander. Loved it, and it saved my life.
Anyways, we thought it would be a good time to step down in payments and step up in fuel economy. I am having a hard time selling the camry hybrid to my wife. She thinks it is sluggish off the line and is worried about its small size and how it would fair up against a big vehicle in a collision. She thinks the interior looks kind of ford like as well. I think she is just being stubborn.
I know it is a big jump because you lose the command you have with the pilot. Realistically, she takes alot of small trips back and forth all over town, and it is not unusual to blow through 100.00 worth of gas in 4 days. I am trying to show her how much we can save in fuel, insurance, and car payments to justify it.
How are people liking these? The only bad thing I can say is that the little compartment doors that click shut are kind of wierd, and maybe they lack some trunk space. Other than that, I like everything else I've seen so far.
How about performance, handling, braking, and acceleration. Do they stay pretty tight after they brake in? What about road noise--say on a trip?
One other question for now. What is this tax incentive you get on them. Is it some sort of a tax refund? Are they fairly cheap to insure? Adam