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Yeah, living in WV is one of those mysteries to those on the left coast and metropolitian areas. It's hard to imagine a 3600 sq ft home on a wooded acre still selling for $300,000. I live 4 miles from work and it doesn't take me an hour to drive that 4 miles to get to work. Humm, let's see, no one has been shot in my neighborhood, we don't have hookers on the street corner, gas is $3, when I retire my property taxes are almost nothing.....
I lived near Pittsburgh for a few years and I have no intention of ever turning back to that life style. The TCH fits well into the laid back lifestyle I enjoy. The only thing better would be sitting on an island looking at the azure waters.
Oh, just so they don't delete this I'll stay to the topic. I'm averaging 38.6 mpg over 23,000 miles in my TCH. That's in the hills of WV. I can't imagine flatlanders not averaging 40+.
Rookie TCH user here. Picked car up Monday. Till today avg was 33.6 MFD. Today first time on highways. Before city, rural, suburbs near home. Took 100 miler today, about 80% on highway, rest in several small towns. Arrived home with 37.0 mpg avg. Little over 300 miles on odo. Fuel gage shows a hair over half a tank remaining. Handles good, ride good. From a start not as quick as previous v6 lexus es 330. After that can't tell difference. Accelerates fine using CC. Passed a few cars, easily. (cc alway used, escept in rain, snow) Only noticed what was read on it and tch did do it. Leans on curves more then old car.
Have read 10 pages on manual,winging it and learning.
You'll want to checkout the various topic threads for good info. A lot of the early threads have a lot of specific information on maximizing your pleasure with the TCH
Go to the main page for Toyota Camry Hybrid and you'll see dozens of threads specific to the TCH.
Since this forum is topic specific it makes it easier to search specific topis oc interest. Thus you don't get the same info repeated over and over like on other forums where every new driver thinks he's discovered something new. It gives you a jump start on maximizing your MPG's, to understand some of the squeek and rattle issues, simply just to know what to expect and how to enjoy your TCH to the max.
The topic on driving tips goes back to May 06 when I first got my TCH and learned something new everyday from driving and reading what others had to share. This is no ordinary car and there are tricks to make it work as intended.
Thanks a lot. Wish I had gone there before listening to the dealer advice on driving. They suggested gunning it and letting off. I am beginning to think my dealer was not very helpful at all, and may be a source of my frustration. I do a lot of the things suggested, but will practice more. Still cannot get the around town much above 30.
Very few of the dealers have any knowledge of these, even though they have been selling Prius' they don't seem to have paid much attention to the hybrid until the TCH came out. There is at least one sales person though that shares a lot of personal 1st hand experience on this board.
The information found here is from the personal experiences of interested and involved TCH'ers
Well I finally got to take my new TCH on an extended trip. I was really impressed (shocked may be a better word) with the MPG.
The trip originated in San Jose, Ca and the destination was South Lake Tahoe, CA. The distance was around 250 miles. I had go up and over the Sierra Nevada (sea level to about 9,000 feet and then down to South Lake Tahoe at around 4,000 feet). The CA central valley its flat and I drove the limit of 65 MPH (Interstate 80) for the first 150 miles. Then, on a two lane road (US 50), I went up and over at 50-60 MPH. I used speed control whenever possible; I used A/C all the way. The ride was super smooth, engine noise was minimal, power was excellent with reserve for passing up hill on a two lane road. And the small luggage compartment was adequate for just my wife and I. Average MPG came in at 41.5!
On the return leg I started at Carson City Nevada ending in San Jose. That was a trip of 300 miles, and except for the first 50 miles (all up), was identical to the outbound leg. This time I tried to kept the speed up to 60 MPH on the two lane part of the trip, and 70 MPH on the flat lands. Average MPG came in at 44.5 MPG! Its clear the Toyota MPG of 38 is very conservative and must apply to 70+ MPH speeds.
I mostly did hiking on the Eastern Serria. During three days of driving I went up and over Sonora Pass twice(10,500 feet), Tioga Pass (10,000), and another pass at 9,500. Speed was limited to 30-40 MPH by the terrain. All took about an hour or so (Sonora Pass is super steep up and down). The average came out to 36.5 MPG. I really tested the engine/battery and never had a problem with performance. I put the drive in “B” mode coming down steep grades and it was wonderful—--hardly ever used the brakes and when I needed power I didn’t have to up shift back to “D” (like you would in a conventional transmission); The only negative was on the steepest parts of Sonora Pass the 4 cylinder was noisy at 40 MPH.
The TCM is an incredibly engineered car and priced right (I paid $25.2K). It’s not a toy to drive around in town as I have seen in some reviews. It’s a truly full size family car for all driving conditions.
"Well I finally got to take my new TCH on an extended trip. I was really impressed (shocked may be a better word) with the MPG."
How much luggage did you have with you? To me, that is the kicker with the TCH. The car wasn't custom-designed to place the batteries in a convenient location, thus they take up room in the trunk... for me that would be just too little Cu Ft back there.
Well I still got the runt of the litter that just showed an impressive average of 33 mpg on an easy trip to LA and back on I-5. Just wondering if you did any special kind of driving to get that high mileage result in the mountains?
Everything that two people could bring on an airplane and store in the overhead bens (two large luggage items; two small tote bags). Plus: Hiking equipment (boots, poles, backpacks, sleeping bags and tent); Dry food; I could have stuffed in a few more items on top of these as the rear door has a lot of height clearance. The back seat was empty. Hope that helps.
Most of the trip was highway driving. I did not do anything consciously except keep the speed at 70 or below and use cruse control whenever possible (a/c always on). My speed over the Sierra’s was limited 60 mph because of curves on a two lane road. I have not tested milage for a long trip at 75-80 mph but would expect to see 10%-15% reduction in mileage
I put the drive in “B” mode coming down steep grades and it was wonderful—--hardly ever used the brakes and when I needed power I didn’t have to up shift back to “D” (like you would in a conventional transmission);
You might want to research this topic (B mode) to make sure it is indeed what you want to do. Most seldom use it and it has pros and cons (battery charging) issues that are discussed.
"Everything that two people could bring on an airplane and store in the overhead bens (two large luggage items; two small tote bags)."
I think you missed my point, but thanks for the response. One can fit two small bags into an overhead bin on an airplane... they have to be smaller than a set size.
Here is what I found out about using B mode from this trip. On a steep incline I can ride the brakes which can overheat (the TCH will accelerate much quicker than a conventional car on a down hill incline). In B mode, I did see, at times, a drop in battery charge (75% drained) and at those times the battery can’t help if you have to accelerate up hill briefly, which makes the ICE work harder and may overheat. Is that the point you wanted to make? I can’t find anything in the manual saying not to use B mode because it might damage the system. Can you point me to info on this tradeoff? Thanks.
I don't think your brakes will overheat. Unless it's a very long grade and your charge is full green the hydraulic brakes are not even in use. I'm not sure the B mode helps much with charging. Yes it can help control the speed but the system was designed for you too "ride the brakes" inorder to fully charge.
Also, if you have the NAV screen you will see that many times when you are accelerating that excess horsepower is actually directed to help charge the battery while also supplying the power needed to accelerate.
Adding my two cents... Discovering the B mode has been great. I use it not only on down hills but when I have to slow down quickly or am taking a sharp turn at slow speed. I find that this sometimes increases my mpg's and has very little effect on the battery as I am not in this mode for prolong periods.
I can't see how applying a resistance to the system will increase you mpg's?
At best, the resistance is applied towards charging your battery when braking, but I would think that using the B mode as compared to simply braking would have a negative energy impact overall.
As for safety, I understand that "riding your brakes" and having the brake light on may cause some issues in heavy traffic, but slowing down without having a brake light come on would pose just as serious of a problem I would think in similar circumstances..
I live in Bay Area of California. Typical day use around town is less than 10 miles. Usually combined city street and freeway driving. Occasional longer trips. I have read all the threads and use all the tips, like pulse and glide, etc. I coast and spend much time in E-mode or at 60. Despite all that I do, the best I can average around town is about 29 mpg, and the best on the highway is about 32 mpg. These calcs are not based on the NAV unit, but on fill ups divided by miles used. Have about 8000 miles on the TCH now.
I honestly think I got the runt of the litter, but wondered if we could hear from those TCH users who have similar experiences of low mileage results. It seems to me that every one here gets fantastic mileage, and not all appear to use the driving techniques suggested.
Warm weather usually gives better results, even with A/C on in ECO mode.
I don't know what to tell wvrsmith as the worse I've ever gotten was on a high speed trip (80+) and there I got 32 mpg. I don't ever get less than 36 unless I'm just totally ignoring my driving techniques.
First of all, in responce to the specific issue, the energy screen is much more detailed. That is it shows all the routing of energy during various modes. Specifically I have found that while accelerating, many times the battery is being charged because the engine generates more hp than is needed and the extra energy goes towards driving the generator that charges the battery. On "hilly" WV roads I am able to get 40 mpg at times by "coasting" down hill but still seeing the battery charged on the uphill section as well. Then when I finally hit a flat spot I get full battery boost and if driving over 42mph will see the gage hit the 60mpg mark and stay there for some time.
Additionally though the NAV unit (I never use the maps) has a bar chart with mpg bars for every minute and shows the last 30 minutes of the trip at all times. It's been a valuable tool to use for understanding how to maximize a trip that is frequently travelled. I have one trip that is about 20 miles round trip and make this 3 to 4 times per week. If I take the Interstate I can get 39mpg but if I take the back roads I can easily get 42 mpg. What I have done thoug as experiment and when not in a hurry, on the back road without traffic I have gotten 57 mpg on this trip.
I almost feel like when I make this trip that it's not costing me anything, where as when I take the 4Runner I know that I'm going to use more than a gallon of gas.
Studying the reaction of the charging system to various modes of operation in the hills has been a valuable tool. I'm sure it has been the reason I can consistantly maintain a 38+ mpg lifetime average over 27,000 miles, even in the hills of WV
Good point... I always start braking before using the B mode so people behind me are aware that I am braking. As for the mpg's... maybe it's that I am using it on a downhill so I see better mpg's.
If your "typical day use around town is less than 10 miles," is that in one trip only or several shorter ones? If the later, very short trips--the system never reaches normal operating temperature--hurts mileage for all cars, hybrids more so I've come to believe.
Also, heavy stop'n'go mileage is a tough environment to expect great mileage.
Still, 29 mpg seems low to me. You might want to try a freeway test to see if everything is operating normally. 20-30 miles at 65 mph on a level road should deliver about 38-40 mpg. Use cruise control if possible.
We've had our new Camry Hybrid for just under two months in the Chicago suburbs. Pretty happy with the mileage to date -- just a shade over 35 mpg through about 1,600 miles, the majority of which are non-highway. That's a good 10+ mpg better than my '96 Mazda Protege was getting.
I know the short trips we frequently take (a few fave restaurants and supermarkets are less than two miles away) are keeping us from really maxing out the fuel efficiency potential -- the wife and I both get big smiles after a longer drive when the "excellent" indicator flashes at journey's end. Love love love being able to sustain 40 mph for several miles on electric mode, and now that the cicadas are dying off we can finally open the moonroof in cooler weather!
"True, the size is limited. But its big enough to take everthing you need on a few weeks vacation trip. We never check luggage anymore when we fly."
Wow, I'm impressed. My family of four always ends up lugging suitcases through the airport check in, PLUS carry ons. The kids especially seem to require a lot of packing.
The carry on luggage can be large and still fit in the overhead compartment of a plane. If you have a picture of that size in your mind you can stack 4 (two on top of 2) in the trunk with a little more room for junk. It takes planning on what to take and how to load the trunk.
Are you glad you traded in your Prius for a Camry Hybrid? And if so, why? I am on the fence when it comes to choosing one of these two models. Thanks! Jeannie
The Camry is a better all around car. It has the size and feel of a standard sedan. It rides smoother. The Prius may qualify as a sedan but in comparison with the Camry, its just not as much car. My Camry mpg is about 38 mpg. The Prius was 44 mpg. This is in moderate weather with no a/c. So, I still do well on mpg. I think the hybrid Camry is all around the best of all worlds. Downsides? Camry does get less mpg. The Prius makes a statement. The Camry blends in.
We purchased our TCH in July of last year for the express purpose of a "road trip vacation" I had planned for this year. We have just returned home for that trip of 3278 miles from Sacramento up the Oregon Coast, then up the Columbia River Gorge to Glacier National Park and then down to Yellowstone Park and finally across Idaho and Nevada to return to Sacramento. We cruised at solid freeway speed with many miles at the posted 75 mph limit across the open highways of Montana, Wyoming and Nevada....
The overall MPG for the 3278 miles was...39.45, and the over 500 miles sightseeing through the Yellowstone Park area (at over 6000' elevation for that whole time) was...45.49MPG. These are accurately computed MPG figures as we keep a complete record of every fill-up. The display computer was always close, but typically off by perhaps less than .5 MPG from the outcome computed from the actual gas the pump delivered.
The car road beautifully, handled the higher elevations and the passing challenges perfectly, and we saw a couple of passing surges at 95-100 mph with utter smoothness. The A/C handled some record high temperatures in Idaho (105 degrees !), and I even had room in the trunk for my folding bike AND all our luggage !
I have a picture of the MPG readout for that 45+ MPG segment, and we could have gone well over 600 miles on that tank, since the fill-up took only 11.16 gallons at the end of that segment !!!!!
Could you please tell me two things - what was your average highway speed; and did you drive the car in any special way, like pulse and glide, etc?
I just returned from a trip to Tahoe, and the best I can say is I went from Walnut Creek to Tahoe and back and drove around there for a week on one tank - but when the fill up came, the mileage was 32.9. And no matter how much coasting or special driving I do, I do not get better than 30 mpg +/- 0.5 around town - does not seem to make any difference that I drive in that special TCH way, or as I always did.
Typical town use varies but is about 10 miles one way, part freeway and part city street. Many shorter trips to the store or post office - less than 10 miles. But no matter where I go, I use the TCH method to maximize mpg based on threads and manual. I recognize that shorter trips will impact mpg, but in a tank full, most trips are over 10 miles with partial freeway.
I have done the freeway test, again on a recent trip to LA - and best I could do down I-5 at 65 mph on cruise is an average of 33 mpg.
My concern is that I average a good 20% less than other folks who may or may not drive in a special manner, and I just get shrugged off at the dealer and Toyota - when there may be some settings that will help.
Good question. I monitor use on all parts of the NAV unit, and I find the typical mpg on the NAV unit is within 0.5 of my actual mpg based on fill up and calculations. Eg, the NAV unit around town will typically be at 28-29.6, and the actual results are some times right on with that.
>> . . .best I could do down I-5 at 65 mph on cruise is an average of 33 mpg.
Hmm, not good. I've done I5 from southern Oregon to the Bay Area several times. Roundtrip mileage is always 39-40 mpg.
I hate to suggest things to check that may sound obvious (and stupid) like tire pressure, but otherwise there's something going on that doesn't make sense.
How about asking the dealer for a comparison test, comparing a car on the lot vs. your car on the same stretch of freeway for 10-20 miles? Good luck.
I just returned from a 250 mile round trip through the mountains of NC. 41.1 MPG in my THC 50th Anniversary model. The mileage has improved since new. We now have about 1500 miles on it and have seen steady improvement. This is with no special driving skills other than not gunning it. There were 3 adults in the car and a trunk full of golf clubs and baggage. I am really digging the great mileage on this car and it is sooo quiet. Better than the Lexus I had before. Having driven both the loaded Prius and this car I can tell you this is definitely the better choice. You may sacrifice a little mileage (maybe 10%) but the ride quality and having a trunk are well worth that sacrifice in my book!
Sorry to hear about the low performance. Real sad to hear that you are not getting much feedback from Toyota. I dont expect much from the dealer. Their primary business is to sell as many cars as possible. Any time spent on a sold customer is time lost on new potential customer. I like the other poster am somewhat suprised of your low mileage. I think you should be getting much better mileage of at least around 36mpg.
FYI, I am a rookie too and just reach 500m on my first 3/4 tank. I could probably have gotten better mileage had I not try to milk every last juice out of the battery in the first half tank. I am noticing that the best advice are one from the actual toyota manual itself. That's hardly any surprise considering they are the ones who design and build it exactly the way the normal user would drive. Since I hit the half tank mark, I started following the advice and my tank average have been creeping up albeit slowly. THere are two primary rule of thumb from the manual that I intrepreted and adopted. Here's my intrepretation of it i) accelerate smoothly at moderate speed to the cruising range (or a little above). The less the engine is running at low mpg (indicator on the dashboard) the better you are. Once you are at that speed, just do as everyone else says release gas pedal slightly and then either hit the cruise control or depress the gas pedal slighlty to keep constant speed. I find that this works great when I am driving locally at 35 mph zone. I "semi-gun" it to 40 and then try to manually keep it at 38. Works great as I can run on motor for quite a ways before coasting for traffic. Second, avoid unnecessary stopping and braking when you are on the highway. Time your drive so you can avoid slowing and accelerating. Having said that, I think the best mpg you should get is on a complete jam, like some section of LA highways. I was just at a similar nasty spot today and my eco drive level shot way up on an ~1 mile section as I was able to go on motor for most of the way.
I have run into some post regarding "breaking in". Perhaps your mpg will improve with time. I sure hope so! I would be concerned if it doesn't. The fact of the matter is that we are under the mercy of the onboard computer. You can try anything under the sun, but if the computer refuses to engage the motor, we are toast. I have noticed in the last couple of outing where the engine refuse to shut down even though I was cruising at only 20 mpg. Quite disconcerting. I think it had to do with the lack of umpph in the battery despite the 60+% full. I shut off the ac which was in eco mode. I turn off the audio and semi-gunned it for a few sec to get up to 40. That seemed to fix it.
Let us know the good news when hit that advertised mpg!!! Good luck to you! May you hit that target soon!
Ditto!! That's especially true when comparing the sticker price of a package4+ prius and a base camry. The difference is 1000 more for the camry. That small difference and nice ride is what made us went with the camry. Its also a great comfort knowing that we are driving in a car rated 5 star for safety.
Okay, I am still on my first tank and am averaging 27 mpg and am freaking out! I drive like grandma! I live on a 35 square mile island and don't get above 35 to 40 mph. What am I doing wrong? I've driven 250+ miles and just hit an average of 27. Any suggestions?
Well, I guess I don't feel alone any more. You cannot track mileage on the NAV unit. It is just a guide. Try resetting it on each trip. The car coasts well, so get it up to speed and play with "pulse and glide." Only real indicator is dividing miles by gallons in next tank fill up. Despite doing everything I can, I can only get it up to about 33 mpg combination city and freeway driving, and about 29-30 mpg strictly city.
All those people who have posted such high mile\age results - I would like to know if they are based on calculation or NAV unit. EG, I got the NAV to show 99.9 the other day coasting downhill to the level area, but it drops in half once you touch the gas. We all want to know real experience mileage around town. Please. Calculation only based on fill up.
All those people who have posted such high mile\age results - I would like to know if they are based on calculation or NAV unit.
In previous posts (under tips I think) I have shown the THREE ways I track milage. At 30,000 miles I am currently at 38.2 mpg lifetime in the hills of rural WV. My worst milage is interstate driving. I do reset the trip indicator on the NAV each trip and am now able to predict my milage pretty accurately for the trips I commonly take.
In previos posting I have discussed the "error" of the odometer, the computer error and the difficulty of using even the manual calculation (miles/gallons). Because of the error both manual and computer calculations are inaccurate. I maintain a spreadsheet (a little radical I realize) and calculate an adjusted mpg ising corrections for the odometer error. I also track the lifetime computer mpg calculation.
The adjusted mpg I get is somewhere almost in the middle of the manual calculation and the computer calculation. It takes several tanks to work out the deviation as I still have tanks that manually are greater than the computer significantly but most are under. When you have 550+ miles on a tank fill up and only use 14+ gallons, then a difference of 0.1 gallons eiter way are significant in a manual calculation. I try to be consistant in my "filling up" procedure but I imaging with temperature differences, and pump differences we never fill to the same level. Over time it won't matter.
Also I have read about the temperature differences causing significant error. I'm not real sure about that one as most underground tanks probably are not affected that much by ambient temps (at least I would not think so). Then again gas in the ground in Arizona may be significantly warmenr than the tanks in Maine so if they are all measured with a 60 degree standard the maine folks may have an advantage?
I am not sure I want to get that technical, but I am sure I will never get close to 38.2 average no matter how I calculate. I drive lightly and coast wherever I can. Area is hilly here so uses gas up and almost none down. Right now with some effort at slow speed and coasting, I think I will get the odometer to about 460 at 14 gallons, up about 40 miles - but to get to 550, I think I would have to coast down the Tehachapi grade on I-5 then fill up at the bottom.
Important - I love the car. Just think there is something internally off that reduces mileage benefits - have to keep trying until I get something other than the corporate response.
Comments
LOL, Yeah you had to be a mountaineer to get the credit.
BTW, I traded an Infiniti FX45 for my TCH
I lived near Pittsburgh for a few years and I have no intention of ever turning back to that life style. The TCH fits well into the laid back lifestyle I enjoy. The only thing better would be sitting on an island looking at the azure waters.
Oh, just so they don't delete this I'll stay to the topic. I'm averaging 38.6 mpg over 23,000 miles in my TCH.
That's in the hills of WV. I can't imagine flatlanders not averaging 40+.
Have read 10 pages on manual,winging it and learning.
Very satisfied here.
tjq
tjq
Since this forum is topic specific it makes it easier to search specific topis oc interest. Thus you don't get the same info repeated over and over like on other forums where every new driver thinks he's discovered something new. It gives you a jump start on maximizing your MPG's, to understand some of the squeek and rattle issues, simply just to know what to expect and how to enjoy your TCH to the max.
The topic on driving tips goes back to May 06 when I first got my TCH and learned something new everyday from driving and reading what others had to share. This is no ordinary car and there are tricks to make it work as intended.
The information found here is from the personal experiences of interested and involved TCH'ers
The trip originated in San Jose, Ca and the destination was South Lake Tahoe, CA. The distance was around 250 miles. I had go up and over the Sierra Nevada (sea level to about 9,000 feet and then down to South Lake Tahoe at around 4,000 feet). The CA central valley its flat and I drove the limit of 65 MPH (Interstate 80) for the first 150 miles. Then, on a two lane road (US 50), I went up and over at 50-60 MPH. I used speed control whenever possible; I used A/C all the way. The ride was super smooth, engine noise was minimal, power was excellent with reserve for passing up hill on a two lane road. And the small
luggage compartment was adequate for just my wife and I. Average MPG came in at 41.5!
On the return leg I started at Carson City Nevada ending in San Jose. That was a trip of 300 miles, and except for the first 50 miles (all up), was identical to the outbound leg. This time I tried to kept the speed up to 60 MPH on the two lane part of the trip, and 70 MPH on the flat lands. Average MPG came in at 44.5 MPG! Its clear the Toyota MPG of 38 is very conservative and must apply to 70+ MPH speeds.
I mostly did hiking on the Eastern Serria. During three days of driving I went up and over Sonora Pass twice(10,500 feet), Tioga Pass (10,000), and another pass at 9,500. Speed was limited to 30-40 MPH by the terrain. All took about an hour or so (Sonora Pass is super steep up and down). The average came out to 36.5 MPG. I really tested the engine/battery and never had a problem with performance. I put the drive in “B” mode coming down steep grades and it was wonderful—--hardly ever used the brakes and when I needed power I didn’t have to up shift back to “D” (like you would in a conventional transmission);
The only negative was on the steepest parts of Sonora Pass the 4 cylinder was noisy at 40 MPH.
The TCM is an incredibly engineered car and priced right (I paid $25.2K). It’s not a toy to drive around in town as I have seen in some reviews. It’s a truly full size family car for all driving conditions.
How much luggage did you have with you? To me, that is the kicker with the TCH. The car wasn't custom-designed to place the batteries in a convenient location, thus they take up room in the trunk... for me that would be just too little Cu Ft back there.
You might want to research this topic (B mode) to make sure it is indeed what you want to do. Most seldom use it and it has pros and cons (battery charging) issues that are discussed.
I think you missed my point, but thanks for the response. One can fit two small bags into an overhead bin on an airplane... they have to be smaller than a set size.
Here is what I found out about using B mode from this trip. On a steep incline I can ride the brakes which can overheat (the TCH will accelerate much quicker than a conventional car on a down hill incline). In B mode, I did see, at times, a drop in battery charge (75% drained) and at those times the battery can’t help if you have to accelerate up hill briefly, which makes the ICE work harder and may overheat. Is that the point you wanted to make? I can’t find anything in the manual saying not to use B mode because it might damage the system. Can you point me to info on this tradeoff? Thanks.
Also, if you have the NAV screen you will see that many times when you are accelerating that excess horsepower is actually directed to help charge the battery while also supplying the power needed to accelerate.
I don't see you ever overheating the ICE
At best, the resistance is applied towards charging your battery when braking, but I would think that using the B mode as compared to simply braking would have a negative energy impact overall.
As for safety, I understand that "riding your brakes" and having the brake light on may cause some issues in heavy traffic, but slowing down without having a brake light come on would pose just as serious of a problem I would think in similar circumstances..
I honestly think I got the runt of the litter, but wondered if we could hear from those TCH users who have similar experiences of low mileage results. It seems to me that every one here gets fantastic mileage, and not all appear to use the driving techniques suggested.
Any other ideas out there.
Probably most people don't share any disappointing mileage.
Keep trying! :confuse:
I don't know what to tell wvrsmith as the worse I've ever gotten was on a high speed trip (80+) and there I got 32 mpg. I don't ever get less than 36 unless I'm just totally ignoring my driving techniques.
First of all, in responce to the specific issue, the energy screen is much more detailed. That is it shows all the routing of energy during various modes. Specifically I have found that while accelerating, many times the battery is being charged because the engine generates more hp than is needed and the extra energy goes towards driving the generator that charges the battery. On "hilly" WV roads I am able to get 40 mpg at times by "coasting" down hill but still seeing the battery charged on the uphill section as well. Then when I finally hit a flat spot I get full battery boost and if driving over 42mph will see the gage hit the 60mpg mark and stay there for some time.
Additionally though the NAV unit (I never use the maps) has a bar chart with mpg bars for every minute and shows the last 30 minutes of the trip at all times. It's been a valuable tool to use for understanding how to maximize a trip that is frequently travelled. I have one trip that is about 20 miles round trip and make this 3 to 4 times per week. If I take the Interstate I can get 39mpg but if I take the back roads I can easily get 42 mpg. What I have done thoug as experiment and when not in a hurry, on the back road without traffic I have gotten 57 mpg on this trip.
I almost feel like when I make this trip that it's not costing me anything, where as when I take the 4Runner I know that I'm going to use more than a gallon of gas.
Studying the reaction of the charging system to various modes of operation in the hills has been a valuable tool. I'm sure it has been the reason I can consistantly maintain a 38+ mpg lifetime average over 27,000 miles, even in the hills of WV
Also, heavy stop'n'go mileage is a tough environment to expect great mileage.
Still, 29 mpg seems low to me. You might want to try a freeway test to see if everything is operating normally. 20-30 miles at 65 mph on a level road should deliver about 38-40 mpg. Use cruise control if possible.
I know the short trips we frequently take (a few fave restaurants and supermarkets are less than two miles away) are keeping us from really maxing out the fuel efficiency potential -- the wife and I both get big smiles after a longer drive when the "excellent" indicator flashes at journey's end. Love love love being able to sustain 40 mph for several miles on electric mode, and now that the cicadas are dying off we can finally open the moonroof in cooler weather!
Wow, I'm impressed. My family of four always ends up lugging suitcases through the airport check in, PLUS carry ons. The kids especially seem to require a lot of packing.
The Prius was 44 mpg. This is in moderate weather with no a/c. So, I still do well on mpg. I think the hybrid Camry is all around the best of all worlds. Downsides? Camry does get less mpg. The Prius makes a statement. The Camry blends in.
The overall MPG for the 3278 miles was...39.45, and the over 500 miles sightseeing through the Yellowstone Park area (at over 6000' elevation for that whole time) was...45.49MPG. These are accurately computed MPG figures as we keep a complete record of every fill-up. The display computer was always close, but typically off by perhaps less than .5 MPG from the outcome computed from the actual gas the pump delivered.
The car road beautifully, handled the higher elevations and the passing challenges perfectly, and we saw a couple of passing surges at 95-100 mph with utter smoothness. The A/C handled some record high temperatures in Idaho (105 degrees !), and I even had room in the trunk for my folding bike AND all our luggage !
I have a picture of the MPG readout for that 45+ MPG segment, and we could have gone well over 600 miles on that tank, since the fill-up took only 11.16 gallons at the end of that segment !!!!!
I just returned from a trip to Tahoe, and the best I can say is I went from Walnut Creek to Tahoe and back and drove around there for a week on one tank - but when the fill up came, the mileage was 32.9. And no matter how much coasting or special driving I do, I do not get better than 30 mpg +/- 0.5 around town - does not seem to make any difference that I drive in that special TCH way, or as I always did.
I have done the freeway test, again on a recent trip to LA - and best I could do down I-5 at 65 mph on cruise is an average of 33 mpg.
My concern is that I average a good 20% less than other folks who may or may not drive in a special manner, and I just get shrugged off at the dealer and Toyota - when there may be some settings that will help.
Hmm, not good. I've done I5 from southern Oregon to the Bay Area several times. Roundtrip mileage is always 39-40 mpg.
I hate to suggest things to check that may sound obvious (and stupid) like tire pressure, but otherwise there's something going on that doesn't make sense.
How about asking the dealer for a comparison test, comparing a car on the lot vs. your car on the same stretch of freeway for 10-20 miles? Good luck.
FYI, I am a rookie too and just reach 500m on my first 3/4 tank. I could probably have gotten better mileage had I not try to milk every last juice out of the battery in the first half tank. I am noticing that the best advice are one from the actual toyota manual itself. That's hardly any surprise considering they are the ones who design and build it exactly the way the normal user would drive. Since I hit the half tank mark, I started following the advice and my tank average have been creeping up albeit slowly. THere are two primary rule of thumb from the manual that I intrepreted and adopted. Here's my intrepretation of it i) accelerate smoothly at moderate speed to the cruising range (or a little above). The less the engine is running at low mpg (indicator on the dashboard) the better you are. Once you are at that speed, just do as everyone else says release gas pedal slightly and then either hit the cruise control or depress the gas pedal slighlty to keep constant speed. I find that this works great when I am driving locally at 35 mph zone. I "semi-gun" it to 40 and then try to manually keep it at 38. Works great as I can run on motor for quite a ways before coasting for traffic. Second, avoid unnecessary stopping and braking when you are on the highway. Time your drive so you can avoid slowing and accelerating. Having said that, I think the best mpg you should get is on a complete jam, like some section of LA highways. I was just at a similar nasty spot today and my eco drive level shot way up on an ~1 mile section as I was able to go on motor for most of the way.
I have run into some post regarding "breaking in". Perhaps your mpg will improve with time. I sure hope so! I would be concerned if it doesn't. The fact of the matter is that we are under the mercy of the onboard computer. You can try anything under the sun, but if the computer refuses to engage the motor, we are toast. I have noticed in the last couple of outing where the engine refuse to shut down even though I was cruising at only 20 mpg. Quite disconcerting. I think it had to do with the lack of umpph in the battery despite the 60+% full. I shut off the ac which was in eco mode. I turn off the audio and semi-gunned it for a few sec to get up to 40. That seemed to fix it.
Let us know the good news when hit that advertised mpg!!! Good luck to you! May you hit that target soon!
All those people who have posted such high mile\age results - I would like to know if they are based on calculation or NAV unit. EG, I got the NAV to show 99.9 the other day coasting downhill to the level area, but it drops in half once you touch the gas. We all want to know real experience mileage around town. Please. Calculation only based on fill up.
In previous posts (under tips I think) I have shown the THREE ways I track milage. At 30,000 miles I am currently at 38.2 mpg lifetime in the hills of rural WV. My worst milage is interstate driving. I do reset the trip indicator on the NAV each trip and am now able to predict my milage pretty accurately for the trips I commonly take.
In previos posting I have discussed the "error" of the odometer, the computer error and the difficulty of using even the manual calculation (miles/gallons). Because of the error both manual and computer calculations are inaccurate. I maintain a spreadsheet (a little radical I realize) and calculate an adjusted mpg ising corrections for the odometer error. I also track the lifetime computer mpg calculation.
The adjusted mpg I get is somewhere almost in the middle of the manual calculation and the computer calculation. It takes several tanks to work out the deviation as I still have tanks that manually are greater than the computer significantly but most are under. When you have 550+ miles on a tank fill up and only use 14+ gallons, then a difference of 0.1 gallons eiter way are significant in a manual calculation. I try to be consistant in my "filling up" procedure but I imaging with temperature differences, and pump differences we never fill to the same level. Over time it won't matter.
Also I have read about the temperature differences causing significant error. I'm not real sure about that one as most underground tanks probably are not affected that much by ambient temps (at least I would not think so). Then again gas in the ground in Arizona may be significantly warmenr than the tanks in Maine so if they are all measured with a 60 degree standard the maine folks may have an advantage?
thanks
gary
Important - I love the car. Just think there is something internally off that reduces mileage benefits - have to keep trying until I get something other than the corporate response.