#131 of 135 Re: Check Engine Light [markmad3] by yellowozzie Dec 03, 2006 (9:26 am)
"Turns out that it was not just the gas cap (which was replaced) that caused the CEL to go off. The computer diagnostic showed that the air control valve (acv) was not working properly. The ACV was getting stuck because the IMRC (?) control switch was improperly mounted and not working properly, causing the valve to get carboned up and stuck. They had to remove the switch, elongate the mounting holes and put it all back together."
At 11,314 miles, my CEL popped on again. Similar problem to what yellowozzie reported...IMRC (Intake Manifold Runner Control ) switch got stuck, code P2006.
Found out what the IMRC does..."The IMRC closes off the ports at low rpm to improve torque and cold weather startups." (http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2230297) in a technical discussion about the CX-7 engine, complete with cutaway pics of the engine.
My CEL came on Saturday morning. I'd driven to the supermarket (a 4 mile drive, but the car was warmed up), shopped, and when I turned the car on to go home, on came the light. Later in the day, I went out again, drove about 10 miles (including a stop to fill the gas tank). After the car sat for about 1.5 hours, I turned it on to go home and hooray, the light was gone! Now, it was pretty cold here Friday (low teens) and cold again Saturday (30 or so)- could that be the cause? If so, I'm relieved - I don't want to bring the car in again for service, I'm already on my 3rd gas cap, had the purge valve worked on, etc., etc. So if the CEL is activated by cold weather but ultimately goes away...that's interesting!
My check engine light also went on recently. I had it in the shop today, and was told it was a faulty gas cap, and it was replaced. I hope as you all do, that this will take care of the problem.
I took it to the dealer and they replaced the gas cap. The light hasn't come on again after another 700 miles on the vehicle - so hopefully that did it. Dealer was aware of the issue beforehand, so I didn't get any runaround.
Syndyz (and anyone else following the flicker lights tale) - I did go back to the dealer today. They did a PCM Flash (and an oil change) and could not replicate the flickering radio lights.
I was hoping the Flash would fix it, but tonight they were flickering again. It only happens after I've been driving the car for a little while (at least 20 minutes).
Those flickering lights are symptoms of something sinister! The ghosts of Christmas past are trying to tell you something! Have you been a good person all year long? How many lumps of coal did you hand out?
cxrabbit, Since the dealership did the "software" update (I don't know what a pcm flash is), the stereo lights have not flickered. I've put on 2500 miles since then. It seemed to me that the lights didn't flicker unless the car was warmed up, as you say, but since I live on the coast a warm up only takes a few minutes so I couldn't definitively say that was a symptom. Also, the CEL has not come on since getting the new gas cap. good luck, and keep us posted -- by the way, 23 mpg on the freeways in WY and CO at 75mph in very cold weather.
I don't think it had anything to do with the PCM Flash. I have the latest.
I DID discover tonight that dimming the dash illumination may be at least part of the issue. Driving home tonight the radio button lights started to flicker. When I pressed the dash illumination button (to turn it to daytime w/headlights on mode) the flickering stopped. When I pressed it again (returning to normal mode) the flickering started right back up. When I then adjusted the dash illumination dial all the way up (until it beeped) the flickering stopped.
It COULD be that you had turned yours down a bit and when your brought it into the shop they returned them to default highest position. OR that something else they did to your car returned them to the default hightest position. OR you adjusted them yourself to a position that isn't causing the lights to flicker. Mine were almost all the way up, but not quite, when they were flickering. Could be at just the right setting, the flickering happens.
Makes me think it's more a voltage regulator thing, not a radio thing. I'll be keeping my eye on it.
Just 1,600 miles and I got a CEL. We'll see what the diagnosis is...thinking its the gas cap. I'm also having them check what seems to feel like a flat spot in a tire. We'll see!
I haven't enjoyed my first Mazda experience very much at all. Shortly after I got the car in August the "check engine" light came on and the cars performance markedly declined. I took it to the Mazda service department and they said the gas cap must be loose. (Although I know it wasn't, I had to go through the motions to appease them) Regardless, after "tightening" the gas cap, the car continued to perform poorly. I returned it again and went on a test drive with one of the technicians. He thought it was running poorly because I was using, as he said, "the wrong brand of gas". (I was using BP's premium gas instead of Sunoco's premium.) He assured me that if I always use Sunoco or Marathon, the car would run fine! So I tried using Sunoco 94 octane, their best. The performance remained poor. (The check engine light has been on continually this whole time) Next they told me I have to wait until all that 'bad BP gas' is flushed out and it would take several tanks. By now I'm beginning to realize they don't know what's wrong. (But miraculously they DO know that driving the car for months with the check engine light is not damaging the engine in any way!) Finally, early in December, they told me it was a defective "shutter valve" but they can't replace it yet because the part is on "national backorder". They would call when the part came in. (No call by the end of December) Finally, I called, and they told me the part is still on national backorder but that they recently learned how to temporarily fix the problem by cleaning and greasing the part. They said this fix should last at least a couple weeks before getting gummed up again and can be properly fixed with the new part. When I actually took the car in to have this procedure performed, however, the service department now said Mazda wasn't going to replace that part. He said they had been informed by Mazda that putting a little grease on the defective part was now the permanent solution. One technician told me that Mazda won't replace them because all of the CX7's have defective shutter valves. I'm sure that would be just too expensive for poor Mazda. Of course, again, the service department assured me that driving all that time with the engine light on and a defective shutter valve doesn't harm or reduce the lifespan of the motor in any way! They're sure! (Funny, that's NOT what it reads in my owner’s manual but maybe that's defective too) I asked them to put this statement is writing (Of course they couldn't do that!) Also, they told me that shifting into gear while the engine is revving at a high RPM is also fine. Yes, they told me, the shutter valve does control the RPM and is supposed to reduce it shortly after it warms up but the fact that my car’s RPM doesn’t go down isn’t caused by the defective shutter valve but that it’s winter and it’s cold outside. (Never mind that my car is parked in a heated garage) They so desperately wanted to “prove” to me that it takes 2.5 to 3 minutes for a brand new CX7 to stop revving by starting one of the new cars sitting out on the dealer lot. (That wasn't necessary since they had already told me that ALL the CX7’s are defective) They also said I have to expect these problems in the first year for a new model car. (Never mind, again, that it’s not the first year for that engine!). I'm not sure what the car will run like when I get it back later but I'm sure the "fix" will not last. (Like they told me before they got their Mazda corporate talking points). Even if it runs fine now, how much damage has been done? How much has the lifespan of the engine been reduced? No one seems to know, and if they do, they're not talking.
ps, after I just finished writing this, they called from the dealer and apologized... it's not the shutter valve. It's the "swirl control valve". (Still no replacement, just more grease) hmmmmm
Bummer. I guess you are not one of the lucky ones who has more than one Mazda dealer in their area?
Driving around with the CEL on for months is scary... seems like that would obscure any OTHER problems that come along in the same time period. Here's hoping all you've done is run your mixture rich and gotten really bad mileage for a while...
Anyway, I feel your pain... I got a CEL this morning. I have my own scanner ($60 or so at "America's Favorite Superstore"). The code shows it is the gas cap (again). Turns out the homemade gas cap fix the dealer gave me back in August ain't gonna cut it. Time to go back and get the REAL gas cap.
"the P2006 code means the ECU is not seeing the TSCV [Tumble Swirl Control Valve] being closed and thinks the TSCV is stuck open... it is not catestrophic but may reduce low end torque and increase emissions
mazda engineers are working on a repair kit for this problem... it will be at least mid january before it is out and a TSB will be released then as well"
Thanks for the info. They just called from the dealer and said that they greased up TSCV valve just like Mazda said to and the engine light still came on afterward. Then they said they contacted Mazda directly and they're overnighting the new revised part for installation straight from the assembly line. I hope this will fix it.
Sorry for posting in the CEL forum, but there isn't a security system or alarm system forum. My security system light (car symbol with key in center) flashes once every 2 seconds when I turn the car OFF. Is this normal? The manual says it should do this when the switched is turned from ON to ACC. Thanks.
I've got 1400 miles on my CX-7 and when I started it up this morning, everybody's good friend the CEL greeted me and stayed on. Not gonna do anything just yet as I am not interested in repeated visitations to the Mazda dealership...Thanks to this forum, I did not panic whent this light came on (plus I leased the vehicle.....)
Yes, the flashing red car symbol is normal when the ignition is off and you'll notice the same flashing when the vehicle is secured (doors locked). It's similar to the flashing LEDs used in other vehicles....used to indicate that a security system is engaged.
My current understanding of this problem is that it is a defective TSCV valve in all of the new CX7's. (Everything they built before Decemeber 2006?) Mazda's official solution (for now) is to put a little grease on it. I told them that was unacceptable so they kept the car to test drive themselves after the fix. Sure enough, the light came back on. The dealer themselves had to insist that Mazda send a new one for my car. Most likely you are going to have to educate your own Mazda service department about this as they didn't seem to know until I pressed them to research further and got the dealership general manager involved.
My dealer keeps telling me NO. I, of course, don't believe this because they told me this long before they even knew what the problem was. They'll never admit to any damage no matter what the problem is so I'm exploring whether or not I qualify for protection under Ohio's anti lemon laws.
"the P2006 code means the ECU is not seeing the TSCV [Tumble Swirl Control Valve] being closed and thinks the TSCV is stuck open... it is not catestrophic but may reduce low end torque and increase emissions
mazda engineers are working on a repair kit for this problem... it will be at least mid january before it is out and a TSB will be released then as well"
The CEL came on again this morning. It's happened so often that I have truly lost count of how many times it's come on. Luckily, I just so happen to have an appointment this coming Monday, for the 7500 mile servicing (OK, so the car's got over 8100 miles...better late than never!). But I'm so non-plussed about the CEL; it's come on so many times that it's like the boy who cried wolf - it's seemingly meaningless. On the other hand, it was 19 degrees here this morning, and we haven't seen those kinds of temps in over a month, so maybe it's just the weather. Whatever. Either it will turn off by itself or they'll resolve it Monday at the dealer.
Before we had this last warm spell, when the temps dropped real low about 3-4 weeks ago(?), my CEL came on. Turned out to be a stuck IMRC sensor...something to do with the drop in temps. That got fixed then, so when the temps dropped last night I was expecting another episode. No problem this morning. As Clinton used to say "I feel your pain"
Took my cx7 (1800 miles) in yesterday for the CEL (1st occurrence) and the dealer ran diagnostics (didn't get the code) and determined the course of action was to replace the gas cap, which he did. He told me if it comes on again, the next step as prescribed by Mazda USA is to replace the gas filler neck. They also updated the software for the control module and told me I should see an improvement in performance. Is this whole thing gonna be a 6 step process until they identify and fix the real problem for the CEL? Fortunately, my dealer allows me to bring the vehicle late in the day on my way home from work, so I am unfortunately ready to accept my fate of multiple dealer service visits...
I can't even count the times I've been back for the CEL light problem. My light is currently on and the Mazda dealer told me not to bring it in again until they can arrange to have someone from Mazda here to examine it. They've tried everything including replacing the TSCV with a brand new one... less than a week ago. My hope now is that I qualify, under Ohio's Lemon Law's, for compensation.
Is your car running fine? Here is my guaranteed fix: Put some black electrical tape on the display so that you don't see the CEL...... Sorry, I couldn't resist.....As I have leased the car, I am not going to worry about CEL warnings unless the display is blinking.....Let the engine seize for all I care......
I had my oil changed at 3700 miles by the Mazda dealer. For those of you who do not know, the CX-7 has a cartridge that is replaced, along with an o-ring, not a standard spin on oil filter.
The dealer wants $25.00 for a special wrench of some sort that takes off the cartridge bolt and about $8.00 for the cartridge filter.
Is it necessary to buy the wrench in order to change the cartridge for those do it yourselfers or those Cx-7 owners who want to go elsewhere for routine oil changes?
The Mazda dealer claims you can break off the cartridge bolt if not using the special wrench.
lost my local dealership last month now must travel on a good day 25 miles to nearest dealer. Since i now have had cel on three times 1400 miles ,I dont have time to travel to a dealership i do not know. Have always bought my vehicle at local dealers. just came home and light on again how many gas caps will this car need..... So i will now have to make arrangements to get off of work to take vehicle to new dealership and hear again how i must not be putting gas cap back on correctly,and fight to have this problem resolved once and for all. have leased this vehicle maybe i just will drive as one person suggested with tape over the cel and see what happens.
Not only can you do it yourself, you can also install OEM Mazda3 parts that will allow the CX-7 to use a "normal" oil filter, aftermarket or otherwise. Check out my posts under the CX-7 "maintenance" thread.
There have been a number of items that have had recent service updates from Mazda. When you go to your dealer, insist that they check these out for you and update your onboard computer system.
My CEL had come on last Thursday and stayed on until Saturday morning, when it simply went off. I had an appointment today for the 7500 mile servicing, so of course I mentioned the CEL going on and off. Turns out the IMRC valve was stuck in the wrong position (for the life of me, I can't recall what IMRC stands for...Intake Manifold ? ? ). To correct it, they removed the valve and remounted it, so that it is now properly aligned. Since the CEL has come on so many times since I got the car, I fully expect to see again sometime again soon, but...that may just be this car's "thing" and I'll have to just keep dealing with it as it occurs!
well took vehicle to a new mazda dealership to have third cel light checked out also driving home my cx7 was driving very rough. after my vehicle was there for ten minutes they called me and said it was an easy fix...... Guess what new fuel cap. This is my second one how may fuel caps does an average car need at 2500 miles. I drove a vehicle for 5 years never did have cap replaced. Also dealership was not pleasant to deal with maybe because they see alot of cel...Cant wait to get out of this lease
of how many times the CEL has come on. Once again this morning, there it was. Now, it was 5 degrees this morning, so much like the last two times the CEL came on, I am betting good money that once it gets back to the 30's, the CEL will go away. The last time I had the car in (less than 2 weeks ago), the technician did mention that in very cold weather, everything contracts - the tires, the gas cap, etc. - and doesn't necessarily perform the way they should, e.g., the contracted gas cap won't make as tight a seal. So I am ignoring this CEL and will be curious to see if it goes out by itself once it warms up a bit.
They don't use rubber on gas caps because the vapor would destroy the seal rapidly. They use a teflon/ polymer seal to avoid contact issues. I think your tech is giving you a load of hooey.
If that were the case, then there would never be a car sold in Alaska or anywhere else it got down to a sub-zero climate. And he's wrong about the tires as well; they don't shrink, they lose the density of the air inside, but reheat when the temp goes up.
It might be time to get corporate involved... too many CELs may mean a greater problem.
I had the stuck IMRD (or was it IMRC?) switch fixed on January 15th...so who the heck knows what it is this time. Love, love, love my CX-7 and I truly think (dangerous, I know)that the CEL is its Achilles heel. I plan on ignoring it until the weather warms up a bit. I'm betting it'll go out when the temp gets up over 30, as it did the last 2 times.
wjbushsr, as for the info about the gas cap and tires contracting in the cold weather...that was my language, not the technician's. Maybe it is a load of crap, but...it's not entirely out of the question. It's freaking COLD here!!!
"Got my 2nd occurrence of CEL this morning. It was 1.5 degrees here in Northern CT. Had my gas cap replaced 3 weeks ago as the fix for the 1st CEL.
Wonder how many other New Englanders were greeted this morning with CEL????
Not planning on going to dealer as weather is supposed to go up to 40 tomorrow......
I'm tempted to disable the CEL!"
I'm in New York and it was pretty cold this morning but my CEL did not acitvate.
I have had the car a month and have about 1600 miles on it. I did ask the salesman about the gas cap issue and he implied that the problem was corrected. I don't recall if they checked and replaced all the caps at the dealer or if posssibly he meant that all of his inventory was free from the problem.
Anyone know if there is a way to check the cap or if certain VINs already have the problem fixed?
2007 CX-7 vehicles with VIN JM3ER29**70100057 - JM3ER29**70128616 (built from February 14, 2006 through August 1, 2006)
If the vehicle is in the range listed above and the cap has been replaced, it should have a label on the firewall noting MSP13 and the date the cap was replaced.
"2007 CX-7 vehicles with VIN JM3ER29**70100057 - JM3ER29**70128616 (built from February 14, 2006 through August 1, 2006)
If the vehicle is in the range listed above and the cap has been replaced, it should have a label on the firewall noting MSP13 and the date the cap was replaced."
My number is higher than the range you posted (JM3ER29**70137***) so I guess that is OK too. I must have got a fresh one.
Actually, it's only denser if the volume decreases. If you could cool gas in a sealed rigid container of fixed volume then the gas density would remain the same. When tires shrink on cooling, the density of the gas inside does increase. But I knew what both of you guys meant.
Well, it finally got cold here in Central PA...and I've got my 3d CEL. I've gotten the new gas cap and the IMRC treatment, so I wonder what I'm due for this time. At least I don't panic now, and since I'm already scheduled for service (my first oil change at around 4000 miles) this coming Saturday, I'll just wait until then. I still like the vehicle, however.
Comments
"Turns out that it was not just the gas cap (which was replaced) that caused the CEL to go off. The computer diagnostic showed that the air control valve (acv) was not working properly. The ACV was getting stuck because the IMRC (?) control switch was improperly mounted and not working properly, causing the valve to get carboned up and stuck. They had to remove the switch, elongate the mounting holes and put it all back together."
At 11,314 miles, my CEL popped on again. Similar problem to what yellowozzie reported...IMRC (Intake Manifold Runner Control ) switch got stuck, code P2006.
Found out what the IMRC does..."The IMRC closes off the ports at low rpm to improve torque and cold weather startups." (http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2230297) in a technical discussion about the CX-7 engine, complete with cutaway pics of the engine.
Vince.
I took it to the dealer and they replaced the gas cap. The light hasn't come on again after another 700 miles on the vehicle - so hopefully that did it. Dealer was aware of the issue beforehand, so I didn't get any runaround.
I was hoping the Flash would fix it, but tonight they were flickering again. It only happens after I've been driving the car for a little while (at least 20 minutes).
V.
Since the dealership did the "software" update (I don't know what a pcm flash is), the stereo lights have not flickered. I've put on 2500 miles since then. It seemed to me that the lights didn't flicker unless the car was warmed up, as you say, but since I live on the coast a warm up only takes a few minutes so I couldn't definitively say that was a symptom. Also, the CEL has not come on since getting the new gas cap.
good luck, and keep us posted -- by the way, 23 mpg on the freeways in WY and CO at 75mph in very cold weather.
I don't think it had anything to do with the PCM Flash. I have the latest.
I DID discover tonight that dimming the dash illumination may be at least part of the issue. Driving home tonight the radio button lights started to flicker. When I pressed the dash illumination button (to turn it to daytime w/headlights on mode) the flickering stopped. When I pressed it again (returning to normal mode) the flickering started right back up. When I then adjusted the dash illumination dial all the way up (until it beeped) the flickering stopped.
It COULD be that you had turned yours down a bit and when your brought it into the shop they returned them to default highest position. OR that something else they did to your car returned them to the default hightest position. OR you adjusted them yourself to a position that isn't causing the lights to flicker. Mine were almost all the way up, but not quite, when they were flickering. Could be at just the right setting, the flickering happens.
Makes me think it's more a voltage regulator thing, not a radio thing. I'll be keeping my eye on it.
ps, after I just finished writing this, they called from the dealer and apologized... it's not the shutter valve. It's the "swirl control valve". (Still no replacement, just more grease) hmmmmm
Driving around with the CEL on for months is scary... seems like that would obscure any OTHER problems that come along in the same time period. Here's hoping all you've done is run your mixture rich and gotten really bad mileage for a while...
Anyway, I feel your pain... I got a CEL this morning. I have my own scanner ($60 or so at "America's Favorite Superstore"). The code shows it is the gas cap (again). Turns out the homemade gas cap fix the dealer gave me back in August ain't gonna cut it. Time to go back and get the REAL gas cap.
Good luck.
-c92
"the P2006 code means the ECU is not seeing the TSCV [Tumble Swirl Control Valve] being closed and thinks the TSCV is stuck open... it is not catestrophic but may reduce low end torque and increase emissions
mazda engineers are working on a repair kit for this problem... it will be at least mid january before it is out and a TSB will be released then as well"
link: http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123651124&page=3
A good site to watch for TSB's (technical service bulletins) is here:
http://www.finishlineperformance.com/cx7/bulletins_index.html
Remember you can always add a topic under "Mazda CX-7" if you think it's warranted.
-c92
Will update as events evolve......
Vince.
thanx for the info!
I read on another forum:
"the P2006 code means the ECU is not seeing the TSCV [Tumble Swirl Control Valve] being closed and thinks the TSCV is stuck open... it is not catestrophic but may reduce low end torque and increase emissions
mazda engineers are working on a repair kit for this problem... it will be at least mid january before it is out and a TSB will be released then as well"
link: http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123651124&page=3
A good site to watch for TSB's (technical service bulletins) is here:
http://www.finishlineperformance.com/cx7/bulletins_index.html
Vince.
Is this whole thing gonna be a 6 step process until they identify and fix the real problem for the CEL? Fortunately, my dealer allows me to bring the vehicle late in the day on my way home from work, so I am unfortunately ready to accept my fate of multiple dealer service visits...
Say it aint so............
Sorry, I couldn't resist.....As I have leased the car, I am not going to worry about CEL warnings unless the display is blinking.....Let the engine seize for all I care......
The dealer wants $25.00 for a special wrench of some sort that takes off the cartridge bolt and about $8.00 for the cartridge filter.
Is it necessary to buy the wrench in order to change the cartridge for those do it yourselfers or those Cx-7 owners who want to go elsewhere for routine oil changes?
The Mazda dealer claims you can break off the cartridge bolt if not using the special wrench.
-c92
When you go to your dealer, insist that they check these out for you and update your onboard computer system.
New one on me.
If that were the case, then there would never be a car sold in Alaska or anywhere else it got down to a sub-zero climate. And he's wrong about the tires as well; they don't shrink, they lose the density of the air inside, but reheat when the temp goes up.
It might be time to get corporate involved... too many CELs may mean a greater problem.
Wonder how many other New Englanders were greeted this morning with CEL????
Not planning on going to dealer as weather is supposed to go up to 40 tomorrow......
I'm tempted to disable the CEL!
Vince.
wjbushsr, as for the info about the gas cap and tires contracting in the cold weather...that was my language, not the technician's. Maybe it is a load of crap, but...it's not entirely out of the question. It's freaking COLD here!!!
V.
Wonder how many other New Englanders were greeted this morning with CEL????
Not planning on going to dealer as weather is supposed to go up to 40 tomorrow......
I'm tempted to disable the CEL!"
I'm in New York and it was pretty cold this morning but my CEL did not acitvate.
I have had the car a month and have about 1600 miles on it. I did ask the salesman about the gas cap issue and he implied that the problem was corrected. I don't recall if they checked and replaced all the caps at the dealer or if posssibly he meant that all of his inventory was free from the problem.
Anyone know if there is a way to check the cap or if certain VINs already have the problem fixed?
If the vehicle is in the range listed above and the cap has been replaced, it should have a label on the firewall noting MSP13 and the date the cap was replaced.
I'm on Long Island and it was like 5 degrees here this morning. No CEL (little over 2,000 miles on the car). So far so good!
If the vehicle is in the range listed above and the cap has been replaced, it should have a label on the firewall noting MSP13 and the date the cap was replaced."
My number is higher than the range you posted (JM3ER29**70137***) so I guess that is OK too. I must have got a fresh one.
Actually, cold air is denser (and therefore less volume and less pressure), but I knew what you meant.
Actually, it's only denser if the volume decreases. If you could cool gas in a sealed rigid container of fixed volume then the gas density would remain the same. When tires shrink on cooling, the density of the gas inside does increase. But I knew what both of you guys meant.
tidester, host