Subaru Forester (up to 2005)

originalbitman · September 2003

Eastwood sells a number of products for dash repair including kits to match the color:

http://www.eastwoodco.com/Department.asp?SKW=TPG0&Dep_Key1=pl- agla&Cat=Plastic+Repair

bit

p0926 · September 2003

Excerpt from the Long-Term Test: 2003 Subaru Forester:

Best Fuel Economy: 27.7 mpg
Worst Fuel Economy: 22.0 mpg
Average Fuel Economy (over the life of the vehicle): 21.5 mpg

I'm no mathematician but I'm pretty certain that you can't average 27.7 and 22.0 and come up with 21.5! (Unless you use "New Math")

-Frank P.

joseph50 · September 2003

"getting into the Subaru was like getting into a favorite pair of jeans"

BINGO!!!!

subkid · September 2003

p0926...
unless one understands the "over the life of the vehicle" as an average consumption from the very beginning of the test, and high/low mileage as highs/lows for the current month.

Other than that, I also have some reserves to their tester's opinions - sometimes too personal, even unreasonable.

K

paisan · September 2003

I stopped putting any faith in their tests when they were long-term testing the Rodeo, and every single person who drove it said "it's got a weird truck-like ride, no where near as comfy as my honda accord/camry/insert other sedan here" I kept reading it and saying to myself, what the heck do these people want? They are trying to compare a sedan to a truck based SUV!!!!??!?!?!

-mike

joseph50 · September 2003

"Like most people, I'm too lazy to check the tire pressure on a regular basis. A few days into my assignment, I noticed that the Forester's tires seemed to be squealing more than usual when taking corners. When I checked the pressure a few days after that, I found that each tire was two to three psi down. I put off filling them, though, when I saw the long lines at my local gas station. Another editor borrowed the Subaru for a quick 1,000-mile weekend trip, and when he returned, the pressure must have been even lower as there was a definite change in the vehicle's road manners — it felt floaty and disconnected from the road as I cruised down the freeway. A quick trip to the air pump, and the Forester's ordinarily communicative handling characteristics were back. Not only was it more fun to drive, I knew that it stood a better chance of being able to make an emergency maneuver."

Did I miss something?
Is it known what the reviewer who was so concerned about "low pressure" believes the best pressure for responsive handling is supposed to be?

stever · September 2003

P0926 - what Subkid said. I wish they'd change the wording for that; the question comes up almost every time we link to one of those long term reports.

Joseph50, I took that paragraph to mean that Erin (I think that's who said that?) inflated the tires to what's recommended on the tire placard.

Steve, Host

tincup47 · September 2003

I find it very interesting that the testers focused on the MSRP on the Forester to the extent on of them reportedly changing their mind over considering buying one. Don't they even check their own website to see what Edmund's TMV is on the vehicles they test? It is certainly no secret that Subaru's do not normally sell for MSRP. I for one haven't been overly impressed with most of the tests I've read on Edmunds.

mfletouva · September 2003

Yeah no offense but the factual information and the messageboard material that Edmunds provide is great, editorial stuff is awful. Its like reading a car review by people are not 'car people.' Edmunds is the antithesis of Car and Driver. I mean, that comment about price was ridiculous! Do they really think you are actually going to pay MSRP for a car like that? HELLO!

stever · September 2003

Feedback Form

Or you can try to make our Letters to the Editors column next month. I bet they'd love to print the "editorial stuff is awful" crack, lol.

Steve, Host

mfletouva · September 2003

They're all good people, I'm sure, I'll just keep my disagreements to the board. It is worth saying though, that the Edmunds review of the Forester, which I thoguht was pretty lukewarm, contrasts with virtually every other review I've read, from CR to CD...

But, that's the point of editorial analysis of cars I guess, to offer your opinion...

lark6 · September 2003

One of the lights behind my HVAC controls - specifically, on the right-hand side behind the knob that controls where airflow is directed - has burnt out. The dealership tells me that replacement is not covered under my Subaru Gold extended warranty (!). Parts + labor to repair = $104. A little surprising to happen to a 3 1/2 -year old car but not out of the realm of possibility.

Has anyone DIYed this before?

Thanks,
Ed

grahampeters · September 2003

G'day

The thin layer of colour on the interior plastics is one of my bugbears as well. However, it is for a good reason. The plastic is recyclable at end of service life and using the minimum colour possible improves the prospects for reuse. Now if they could just put a bit more paint on, it would be a better proposition!

Cheers

Graham

teno · September 2003

I just took possesion of a brand new 2003 XS and absolutely love it. I have to say I had test drove this car back in 99, but opted for a new MBC230K. That was a wonderful car.
But being in need of an SUV, the Forester was our first choice after reviewing and test driving the Lexus. For the money the Forester can 't be beat. I feel very comfortable in it and it drives really sweet. So far so good. Has every option Suburu carries. I only wish the side mirrors automatically dimmed. I love that it has the 6CD/cassete on the dash and that it is real easy to operate. I understand the 04 no longer has the cassette player. Love the large sunroof. Regarding the the turning radius, although not as great as the MB, it is pretty darn good for this size car. The color, cayenne red is what I wanted as well. The dealer had to get it from the east coast of FL.It was the only one. The dealership in Fort Meyers drove out to get it and had it ready the next day for us. They made it real easy for us to buy this car. So I hope the honeymoon continues with my Forester.

c_hunter · September 2003

Congratulations! Forester is a great car, we love ours.

Craig

mpgman · September 2003

Can you fit a standard sized man's bike in the rear with both wheels on? How far forward do you have to move the front seats, if at all? Thanks.

forestergump · September 2003

I have been able to consistently fit my 17" Cannondale mountain bike in the back with the rear seats folded down, without having to move the front seats forward more than where they normally are.

kajko · September 2003

mpgman: i fitted my 19" Giant MB in the back as well (back seats folded) with no problem. i'm 5.10 FWIW.

Juice and others: I finally got my raised springs installed! They arrived a couple of weeks ago, but i had them put on just before Labor Day weekend, and of course did some testing... pics are here at subaruforester.com
Springs are King Springs and fit like a glove. The ride is stiffer, though not much. i also gained about 1" - 1.5" of clearance. Fantastique! I don't know why they are not a dealer option (apparently years ago in Canada there was an off-road edition of the Forester called Dynastar)...

rsay777 · September 2003

Nice looking rig.

I like the tint. Is this an aftermarket job? if so tell me more. Thanks. Bob L

irnmdn · September 2003

Any one installed aftermarket leather seats on XS which has both seatheaters and side airbags. It is shame that Subaru requires to buy an auto to get leather seats (two tone interior with leather looks awesome). Ditto for not offering heated seats on WRX wagon.

lbhaley · September 2003

The only feature of my new XT that I don't really like is the automatic climate control. I have tried to use it several times this summer to cool the car and always end up going back to manual mode. The problem is the fan speed is consistently too high, both initially and after the car has cooled. It never turns the fan lower than the second speed. I like to run the fan on the first speed setting once the correct temp has been reached. This morning I tried it to heat the car and to my amazement the air conditioning came on even though I set the control on 74 and it was much colder than that in the car. I again went to manual mode which works fine. I would really like to use this feature to 'set it and forget it' but I don't like the way it works. Is it just me or have others found the auto mode to be intrusive? Am I doing something wrong? Other than that I love the car. Thanks for any input.

-Les

kcdeven · September 2003

I recently bought a 5-speed 2004 "X" Forester. I mostly love it, but am having problems with the clutch when backing out of my driveway, which slopes downward. The hill-holder clutch engages, making it very difficult for the car to move. So I usually end up rolling down the driveway in neutral, but that is a bit scary, as I live on a busy street, and have to then put the car in gear really fast. Anyone else have this problem and/or any solution ideas?
Thanks!

rsholland · September 2003

That's the nature of the beast. When the nose of the vehicle is pointed up a hill, the Hill-Holder will engage.

Another solution to what you're doing: Back into your driveway, with the nose of the vehicle pointing downhill. The Hill-Holder will not engage then.

Bob

subkid · September 2003

my favorite topic.

There are a couple of things you can do:

- park backwards into the driveway

- While backing out, use hand brake instead of the foot.
- set (loose) the HH, so that it lets go very early in clutch's way back.
- disconnect the HH
- get used to depressing the brake very lightly, just barely to control the vehicle - that will make it easier to continue driving once you start releasing the clutch.

I had a lot of grief with HH, but once I took it to the service to be properly adjusted, I don't even know it's there. My clutch engages very close to the floor, so they made HH react at the same point.

K

kens · September 2003

Les: I have yet to find an auto climate control system I like because of the fan speed issue. I usually find myself playing with the temp setting just to control the fan speed -- defeats the whole purpose!

kcdeven: The HH clutch is adjustable. There's actually a cable that runs from the clutch pedal to the HH clutch valve that controls it's sensitivity. NASIOC has some links on how to adjust it (or have the dealer do it).

Ken

lfdal · September 2003

les - It's not you, the auto climate in the the Forester just isn't on a par with some other manufacturerers. I liked my Sable's much much better.

Larry

kajko · September 2003

rsay777,

thanks, the tinting is aftermarket. i had it done locally at TintMasters: 35% for front doors and 20% on the rest. I could've gone 20% in front (legal in NM), but i felt it would be too dark for mirrors, etc... check here for laws.
There's a LOT of glass on the Foresters so that was one of the first things i did. doing it in the wintertime will save you 20%-40% also...
i like the fact that when i cover the windshield with a sunscreen, you practically cannot see inside the car.

cheers

lbhaley · September 2003

Larry and Ken, thanks for your response to my climate control question. Now that I know the problem is not unique to my particular Forester I'll just control it manually.

I have a hill to back down in my driveway too. At first the HH gave me some problems, but I found that if I apply the brakes lightly as I start to roll down it is very easy to control my speed without stopping. It works very well once you get the hang of it.

-les

c_hunter · September 2003

My wife constantly fights with the auto climate control in our Forester, but I seem to get along with it OK, after a year of similar experiences in an LL Bean Outback. I think the trick, for me, is to use the temperature knob to control everything.

I still have to override the system ocassionally in both cars, but fight it far less often than I used to. My wife, on the other hand, uses manual control in both cars all the time.

Craig

hypov · September 2003

I bet there's rumbling in Japan,...
"Those Americans, first they ask why no Hill Holder. Now they complain when they have them".

Meanwhile, somewhere on the production line, someone working on torquing the left rear struts,...
"I'll give you something to complaint about" ;-)

-Dave

subkid · September 2003

I certainly didn't ask for a HH. If I had an option of choosing it, I wouldn't have taken it.

And the reason I keep buying Japanese cars is that it isn't in mentality of their worker to screw things deliberately or out of sheer frustration. Quite contrary.

K

kcdeven · September 2003

Thanks Bob & K for your suggestions on the hill-holder.

I had no idea it could even be adjusted - funny that my salesperson didn't suggest this when I called him about the problem. Maybe I should call the service department.

The best thing, as you both suggested, would be to back into my driveway. It's just hard to do that on such a busy street, and our house is at the curve in the road.

Thanks again - I'm definitely going to check with the service department.
-KC

kcdeven · September 2003

K - you mentioned setting loose or disconnecting the hill holder - is this something I can do myself?

Thanks,
-KC

ateixeira · September 2003

kajko: SWEEEEET! I love it! How much for those? Are they for 2003+ only?

Sure looks like more than the claimed 20mm. Maybe it's because they have a stiffer rate, so they compress less under load, i.e. with weight in it the difference is even bigger.

Did you also change the shocks, or to the OE ones fit? Man, I really like it, you have me considering this once again.

Regarding Edmunds long-termer, I'll make an interesting observation. We always say mileage improves with age, well there is proof. The worst tank for the current report is better than the average tank before the report. So the engine was green, and definitely improved substantially with age in terms of mpg.

We knew that all along, this is more proof. Subarus tend to improve mpgs with age!

Ed: see my response in the other thread.

I've seen Katskins seat leather with the SRS logo. I'm sure they're compatible with air bags, their existence will soon depend on that.

-juice

kens · September 2003

I think the HH is a great idea -- ever try parallel parking on a San Francisco hill? I think the issue is that the fine tuning needs a bit more work.

There are lots of misinformed sales people out there, unfortunately. The best thing to do is check with the service department (or one of us!).

The last thing one should do is have to modify their driving habits to work around the HH system. It should ideally be transparent until needed.

Perhaps the HH is set very conservatively from the factory to prevent any roll-back on hills for manual transmission beginners. If I had the HH sticking, I'd probably set it to the point where I do get some roll-back so I know I'm not burning my clutch.

Ken

subkid · September 2003

HH ideally should be set up to let go at the point where clutch grabs.

HH certainly can be adjusted as a DIY project, but why, you have paid for a brand new car and they should bring it to your liking. In my case, I just mentioned it during the oil change and they took care of it in 5 minutes - no charges of course. If you really like to DIY, it's positioned under the windshield fluid reservoir and main brake cyl. There is a cable with 2 screws, tightening and securing. You probably want to release it a bit.

kens,
there are a lot of "hilly" cities in this world besides San Francisco

). After 20+ yrs of driving stick, I look at HH like I'd look at the auxiliary wheels on my bike.

K

gmginsfo · September 2003

My 28" road bike goes in rear wheel first atop the down-folded rear seats, with the rear derailleur pointing up to avoid grease on the seatbacks. Then I turn the front wheel so it's almost vertical against the rear window and I've got lots of room for gear with no wheel removal needed. Helmet and frisbee reside permanently beneath passenger seat, and swim gear lodges in rear side stowage bin, except for goggles - which dangle provocatively from rear view mirror!

rsholland · September 2003

I posted, earlier in the day, over in the "Suggestions for Subaru" forum, that perhaps there should be some sort of driver-controlled on/off switch, for those situations when the Hill-Holder feature is not wanted; just like the on/off switch used on the H-6 Outback VDC.

I agree with Ken, there are certain situations, like driving/parking in San Francisco, where the Hill-Holder is of real value. In fact, I wish this feature worked regardless of which direction the nose of the car is pointed on an incline.

Bob

russski · September 2003

I personally think that HH is a great invention. Of course I can do without it. To me it is like having a car with electric mirrors (it is a convenience).
As long as I own my 2003x, I NEVER came across the situation when HH was a nuisance. (BTW the exit from my garage is down sloppy hill).
As far as I'm concerned my hill holder is properly adjusted. I also believe that there is an element of driving habits involved too. I have a friend, though, he has a similar car with HH - and he absolutely hates it.
My wife drives the car occasionally, and she loves HH too.

Vitaly

p0926 · September 2003

I agree with Subkid, having learned to drive a manual in the mountains and with a number of years of driving behind me, to me the HH is superfluous (and yes I've driven a manual in SF). Still, I can see where it would be a nice feature for some drivers and believe that if adjusted properly, it's presence should be virtually transparent to a skilled driver. In fact, I almost didn't notice the HH on the XT I test drove.

KC- "I had no idea it could even be adjusted - funny that my salesperson didn't suggest this when I called him about the problem. Maybe I should call the service department."

Surely you knew that the average salesperson is next to clueless when it comes to technical details? ;-) On my XT test drive, the salesman finally shut up when he realized that I knew far more about his product than he did.

-Frank P.

joybell · September 2003

I love the Hill Holder. I live on flat land, so although I have driven stick for about 12 years, I have never had to climb many hills so I am certainly not skilled with engaging the gear on a steep slope. So when I go to Montreal the HH really comes in really handy in Westmount. Great in Vermont too. As for backing out of a driveway onto a busy road @#$%^&*(!!!

ateixeira · September 2003

It's funny, I didn't even notice the HH on my test drive of the XT. Then again it wasn't hilly there.

-juice

twrx · September 2003

as to the comment about getting along without power mirrors. Without power mirrors you might as well not have a right hand mirror at that rate. To me they are essential.

kurt32 · September 2003

For the last 5000 miles we have had an intermittent problem at high speeds with our 2001 automatic trans Forester. At speeds around 65-70 mph the car will start jerking and surging. Occasionally this will also occur at slower speeds, but only after first traveling at higher speeds. The dealer checked it out at the last oil change, but found nothing wrong. Two weeks a go the Dealer reprogramed the computer, but again found no system faults. Last night the problem occurred again. At 65 mpg the car started jerking. As this occurred, there was no change in the tach speed. After exiting the highway, Scubby stalled out and coasted into a parking lot. After a few minutes rest, it started up fine and was not a problem for the rest of the trip.

What could be happening? I feel that unless my dealer actually sees this happen, they will not take me seriously. Any advice to fixing the problem and/or communicating with a dealer regarding an intermittent problem would be welcome.

kens · September 2003

subkid,

Sure there are lots of other cities with hills, but have you ever driven some of the hills on San Francisco? It'll cause some amount of tension in even a very seasoned stick driver.

The steepest grade you can drive up is 29% on Jones between Union and Filbert. The steepest grade one can drive down is 31.5%

Ken

lfdal · September 2003

Does anyone know for certain how similar the Australian and US Foresters are?

I finally got time to re-read the excellent PDF file on the XT that Graham posted a link to a while ago.

I also remember another post someone had a while back asking if there was any difference between the 4EAT(?) auto and the new "Direct control" automatic in the XT. I also remember that basically the Subaru support line told the poster that it was the same box.

According to the "Forester XT Technical Description Supplement Model Year 2004", page 12 the direct control transmission is indeed a new type of transmission. I've been wondering about that since I got my XT, because it definitely shifts better and smoother (as always, IMO only) than my 03's did. The book also describes the turbo engine very well, and mentions structural improvements between the 03 and 04 MYs

Just curious...

Larry

p0926 · September 2003

Argh! The weekly AP auto review in the local paper was on the Mitsubishi Lancer Sportback Ralliart (talk about a mouthful). As I was reading the review I was struck by the similarities between it and the Forester. The HP (non-XT), mpg and cargo volume ratings are all very close and the price of the Mitzu is comparable to that of the Forester X. Okay, so you're asking why am I upset? Well it was the tone of the article, the writer was clearly enthused with the Mitzu, even to the point of turning it's negatives (and there were a few) into positives. This wouldn't normally bother me too much (other than the clear lack of objectivity) but I swear that the same writer panned the Forester a while back and faulted it for having the exact same attributes that won the Mitzu praise. Here are a couple of examples:

Forester - 2.5L 165 hp = only adequate power
MItzu - 2.4L 162 hp = sprightly, decent zip, performance was comforting and confidence inspiring

Forester cargo volume - 32/64 = less than others in its class
Mitzu cargo volume - 25/61 = good amount of cargo room, Lancer sedan only has 11 cubic feet in trunk

Well whoa! They are both essentially wagons so why compare the Forester to other SUVs while comparing the Mitzu's cargo capacity to a sedan!?!?

So do I have just have an inferiority complex or is there really a bias out there against the Forester?

-Frank P.

lfdal · September 2003

Frank - I'm not sure Subaru in general gets a fair shot in the trade journals, reviews, etc. Seems like they're just not taken seriously. Especially as they try to move the product line into more expensive regions.

I know I didn't take Subaru seriously until I knew I wanted something different than another Sable, then sat down and just started going through each mfg's product line one at a time....

That to me is when Subaru started to shine.

Larry

gened1 · September 2003

I sounds as though you may have a fuel delivery problem possibly a fuel pump or plugged fuel injectors.You may have to take your Forester to another dealer and see what they say.
Just a thought.
Gene

mckeown · September 2003

Kurt, If it's still under the 3/36, have the Dealer replace the Oxygen Sensor. This is ONE way these newer (00-present) go bad. They DO NOT set a code when this type of failure occurs. They think the engine is running rich and shut off the injector pulses. It usually occurs AFTER warmup. I know 4 people this has happened to and a 01 Outback was flatbedded to the dealer only to have it restart with no apparent codes stored OR trouble fould. 2nd time it was flatbedded, Dealer replaced O2 sensor.
Try this next time it acts up, UNPLUG the o2 sensor. The engine will run in 'open loop' mode, (ie no feedback for polution controls, and it will illuminate the Ck Eng light). BUT drive it. If the hesitation/cutout is gone, then the O2 sensor is the prime suspect.
This is a good roadside service tecnique to get you and the vehicle home in a safe manner, whether it sets an engine code is small potatoes compared to being stranded....ask me how I know that one.....(4 O2 sensors later on an 02 with 45K).

Subaru Forester (up to 2005)

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