Are automobiles a major cause of global warming?

19798100102103223

Comments

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Take it up with the astronaut. He is the one saying it. You are the denier which puts the monkey on you to prove otherwise. I just post the stories you can believe them or dispute them. I am still waiting to hear a speech by a real scientist claiming that man made GW is an absolute with no doubts. Only politicians and environmental whackos get so caught up in the consensus claims.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Bring back the American Plains BUFFALO !!! 60 M head strong !!! We are gutting the plains they used to roam from a policy point of view anyway !!
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    ..."Take it up with the astronaut. He is the one saying it. You are the denier which puts the monkey on you to prove otherwise. I just post the stories you can believe them or dispute them. I am still waiting to hear a speech by a real scientist claiming that man made GW is an absolute with no doubts. Only politicians and environmental whackos get so caught up in the consensus claims."...

    Combine with the almost complete and utter lack of R & D and killer applications to use Carbon and C02. is also VERY telling !!! It literally speaks VOLUMES !!!

    Indeed people who advocate the use of bio diesel are vilified as wacko's, by the wacko's who say GW is a TRUTH !!!
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    No monkey on me.

    That has been a claim which has bothered me since the first time I heard it, and I still will not believe it to be true, because it makes no sense to me.

    Scientists are not paid to promote an agenda. They are paid to produce objective results.

    If any grant money is dependent upon expected results, then it is tainted from the git-go, regardless of the intended goal of the science at hand.

    If grant money is dependent on a projected result, then the grant is a sham anyway, and the scientist is better off not accepting that money.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    We have been on the subject of... or... NOT !!!!

    ..."Scientists are not paid to promote an agenda. They are paid to produce objective results. "...

    I am glad on some level, you understand the conversation !!!!
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Not only derided, they want to try him as a criminal for going against "THE GW CULT"

    Dr David Bellamy has felt the chill wind of derision for more than a decade, ever since he declared that he did not believe the planet was warming up.

    Dr Bellamy accuses supposed experts such as the former US vice-president Al Gore, of “cherry-picking“ the models which help to substantiate their argument.

    “Yes, the lakes in Africa are drying up, but that’s not global warming. They’re drying up for the very simple reason that most of them have dams around them. So the water that used to be used by local people is now used in the production of cut flowers and vegetables for the supermarkets of Europe.

    "Any noticeable warming is more likely to be linked to sun spot activity on the sun, which is getting hotter as it ages.

    “They [the sun spots] are enormous eruptions, an atomic powerhouse. You can actually see them. At least half of the temperature rise that we have seen correlates with these sun spots.“

    What we really should be worried about is killing off biodiversity - that delicate, impeccable-functioning balance which Nature maintains so perfectly, just as long as we don’t meddle with it. That is where the billions poured into greenhouse gas control would be far better spent.

    For voicing such “heretical” views, some extremists have called for climate sceptics such as Dr Bellamy to be tried for crimes against humanity. Scaring people to death buy telling them we’re all going to die and there is nothing we can do about it now appears to be acceptable.


    http://www.express.co.uk/features/view/78805
  • wvgasguywvgasguy Member Posts: 1,405
    The livestock sector is estimated to account for 18 percent of global greenhouse gas

    And that doesn't even count the gas I give off after eating beef
  • wvgasguywvgasguy Member Posts: 1,405
    Well, as far as I know, we DON'T have the technology to make cows stop polluting.

    No but the point would be if we stop eating them people will stop breeding them. I'm guessing if you turned all the cows lose into the wild, they would starve in the winter or the hunters would kill them off in one generation. No more emisions.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Hearsay alert !!!!!!!!!

    The always missing "they"

    "some (unnamed) extremists"

    It's just an opinion piece Gary.

    And you know as well as i do that "extremism" in any direction is unwise.
  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    Well, as far as I know, we DON'T have the technology to make cows stop polluting.

    You're kidding right? I mean you are seeing the option of killing off the cattle and raising no more? If you don't eat meat or dairy, why would you have more than a handful of cattle around - just enough to keep the gene-pool going.

    If you can't think of the technology, I bet you can ask most any 16 year old male how you kill cattle. And many would pay you to "hunt" them.

    But if we don't want to do altogether as a society, ANY individual who stops eating meat & dairy can prevent 1 extra cow from being raised. So Larsb - you a vegan?
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Umm, no, I'm not "seeing" that as a real-world option. Are you?
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,401
    "...Still waiting for the first real scientist to pipe in and say "I lost my grant funding because I do not believe in Global Warming"..."

    You can't really be that naive to believe that politics or groupthink doesn't effect who gets the money, can you?

    Back in the 70's I was director of a government grant program that was supose to deliver social work services to occupants of a public housing project. What I didn't know was that the director of the housing authority expected me to act as a spy for management and report any problems that might cause non-payment of rent.

    I told her that it would be unethical for me to report back on problems which my clients had revealed in confidence. The next year my grant was pulled and the money was reallocated to hire security guards.

    I can tell you my friend, if you don't tow the company line you WILL lose your grants. :cry:

    Of course, government funded scientists may be above all that nasty stuff.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    ..."Of course, government funded scientists may be above all that nasty stuff. "...

    Of course they are....until they are out of work because they do not get the grants!!! ;) The ones that remain... probably essentially do not want the same thing to happen to them ! Ergo......
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I am still waiting to hear a speech by a real scientist claiming that man made GW is an absolute with no doubts.

    The obvious one is the NASA guy, James Hansen, who's been saying that since the 80's.

    "In 2003 Hansen wrote a paper called Can We Defuse the Global Warming Time Bomb where he argues that human-caused forces on the climate are now greater than natural ones, and that this, over a long time period, can cause large climate changes." (Wikipedia)

    He has a BA, MS and PhD, so I think he qualifies as a real scientist.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    He has a BA, MS and PhD, so I think he qualifies as a real scientist.

    As larsb said, opinions don't count. Actually he said opinion pieces but is there any difference?

    So, I'll just call this guy a crockpot. I mean crackpot. :)

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Hansen being a consensus of one. I was trying to find the name of the NASA scientist that did not agree with Hansen and was told by the Clinton Whitehouse what he was allowed to say. He quit NASA in disgust. He was equally as qualified as Hansen the Al Gore puppet. You have to wonder how much he gets under the table. I think Hansen's credibility will be found with dollar signs all over it.

    (AP) PASADENA, Calif. NASA Administrator Michael Griffin has told scientists and engineers at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena he erred when he aired his personal views about global warming during a recent radio interview.

    In a video of the Monday meeting obtained by The Associated Press, Griffin said “Unfortunately, this is an issue which has become far more political than technical and it would have been well for me to have stayed out of it.”

    Griffin made headlines last week when he told a National Public Radio interviewer he wasn’t sure global warming was a problem.

    The radio interview angered some climate scientists, who called his remarks ignorant.

    Griffin reiterated that NASA’s job is to provide scientific data on global warming and leave it up to policy makers to decide what to do with it.

    It looks like Mr. Griffin was taken to the woodshed for actually telling the truth.


    And more of the politics at NASA:

    Retired senior NASA atmospheric scientist, Dr. John S. Theon, the former supervisor of James Hansen, NASA’s vocal man-made global warming fear soothsayer, has now publicly declared himself a skeptic and declared that Hansen “embarrassed NASA” with his alarming climate claims and said Hansen was “was never muzzled.”

    “Hansen was never muzzled even though he violated NASA’s official agency position on climate forecasting (i.e., we did not know enough to forecast climate change or mankind’s effect on it). Hansen thus embarrassed NASA by coming out with his claims of global warming in 1988 in his testimony before Congress,” Theon wrote.

    Theon declared “climate models are useless.” “My own belief concerning anthropogenic climate change is that the models do not realistically simulate the climate system because there are many very important sub-grid scale processes that the models either replicate poorly or completely omit,” Theon explained. “Furthermore, some scientists have manipulated the observed data to justify their model results. In doing so, they neither explain what they have modified in the observations, nor explain how they did it. They have resisted making their work transparent so that it can be replicated independently by other scientists. This is clearly contrary to how science should be done. Thus there is no rational justification for using climate model forecasts to determine public policy,” he added.

    Now all you AGW alarmists can begin trashing this man and his reputation. The status quo when presented with someone arguing against man-made global warming.


    The battle of the scientists goes on.

    Alert: James Hansen Responds to John Theon! - Theon Fires back - Decries Smears on Skeptics

    Retired NASA Atmospheric Scientist Dr. John S. Theon’s Response to James Hansen’s Reported Comments – February 5, 2009

    NASA’s James Hansen reportedly responded to comments made by retired NASA Atmospheric Scientist Dr. John S. Theon’s . Theon, one of Hansen’s former supervisors, declared himself a skeptic and said Hansen had “embarrassed NASA.” See: “James Hansen’s Former NASA Supervisor Declares Himself a Skeptic: Says Hansen ‘Embarrassed NASA’ & ‘Was Never Muzzled’ – January 27, 2009 -
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Here is the whole story of Al Gore's puppet Hansen:

    Washington DC, Jan 27th 2009: NASA warming scientist James Hansen, one of former Vice-President Al Gore’s closest allies in the promotion of man-made global warming fears, is being publicly rebuked by his former supervisor at NASA.

    The whole long story
  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    The obvious one is the NASA guy, James Hansen, who's been saying that since the 80's.

    Hmm that's interesting that he came to that conclusion back in the 1980's, given that there was a lot less data, modeling and computing-power available. I find it hard to believe he knew definitively in the 80's or even in 2003, how much of a %-age man contributes, when many of the natural emissions were not even discovered - undersea vents, frozen methane ...

    I hate to say it but there are scientists out there who want to skip the work and become famous anyway they can. Anyone for cold-fusion? I believe those cold-fusion scientists had PhD's and were fairly well respected before their rush to fame.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    But what you said was "I am still waiting to hear a speech by a real scientist claiming that man made GW is an absolute with no doubts."

    And I found you one. :-)

    Almost missed you jumping in there Kernick. Hansen started developing his GW theory back in his astronomy days when he was studying Venus. That was back in the 70s (I think this is all on the Wiki page about him).
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Here is the scientist that was muzzled by the Clinton bunch on MMGW.

    Something about retirement apparently frees people up to say what they really believe. I retired early from NASA over seven years ago to have more freedom to speak my mind on global warming.

    You might recall that after Dr. Joanne Simpson retired from NASA she (trmm.gsfc.nasa.gov/3rd_trmm_conf/simpson.doc) admitted to a long-held skepticism regarding the role of mankind in global warming.

    And who can forget NASA’s Administrator, Michael Griffin, admitting that he was skeptical of the urgency of the global warming problem? After the outrage that ensued, I suspect he wishes he had never brought it up.

    And now my old boss when I was at NASA (as well as James Hansen’s old boss), John Theon, has stated very clearly that he doesn’t believe global warming is manmade…and adding “climate models are useless” for good measure. Even I wouldn’t go quite that far, since I use simple ones in my published research.

    I remember the old days at NASA, when even John Theon was singing the same tune as most people at NASA were. Manmade global warming was a potentially serious threat, and NASA wanted Congress to fund new satellites to study the problem. It was a team effort to get that accomplished.

    Global warming research was a relatively new field back then. Was Theon always skeptical, and just being a team player at the time? I don’t know. It could be that Dr. Theon, after watching 15 years of climate research go by, decided that he was no longer convinced that mankind was at fault for warming.

    After all, there is some precedence for scientists changing their minds. One of today’s leading global warming alarmists is Stephen Schneider, who did a major about-face from the 1970s when global cooling was all the rage. At least Theon didn’t write a book back then about how serious the global warming issue was, as Schneider did on global cooling.


    http://www.drroyspencer.com/

    So larsb there are 3 scientists that were forced out because they did not promote Man Made Global Warming.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    OK, now the debate if Hansen is a REAL scientist or a paid mouthpiece. His old boss has claimed he is an embarrassment to the real NASA scientific community. I would say a quarter of a million would be incentive...

    Congressman Darrell Issa questioned Hansen's motivations in criticizing the Bush administration, noting that Hansen supported 2004 Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry and also received a $250,000 Heinz Environment Award from the Heinz Foundation, run by Kerry's wife, in 2001
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    That old saying about "follow the money" really is true !

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Fine.

    We can play this game all day long.

    "I would like to remove my name from the list of scientists who dispute global warming." Peter Doran, Ph.D., associate professor of earth and environmental sciences at the University of Illinois at Chicago, writing an Op Ed in the NY Times in 2006. link

    Doran also published a survey just last month and found that "a group of 3,146 earth scientists surveyed around the world overwhelmingly agree that in the past 200-plus years, mean global temperatures have been rising, and that human activity is a significant contributing factor in changing mean global temperatures."

    Shall go through them one by one? Surely there's one or two more paid mouthpieces in there, lol. :P

    University home page and Survey: Scientists Agree Human-Induced Global Warming is Real.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    See what you think of this game.

    Those food for oil crooks at the United Nations are big proponents of GW because they also smell MONEY from U.S. taxpayers.

    Now it turns out that they have also been lobbying heavily for their "fair share" of the latest stimulus fiasco and they want billions because this whole financial crisis was brought on by the U.S. so we owe them. I am sure they will get a big check because it is sure to help our economy.

    You know that money that is now in your wallets? Well it will soon be contributing to the lifestyle of the rich and crooked and people who hate us. Our politicians truly have gone insane and have no shame.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Nice diversion. :-)

    Shoot, I forgot all about Chris Field, who I linked in here the other day.

    I don't recall anyone mentioning the Primary Cause of Global Warming Discovered story in here. The author is a retired USGS PhD running a consulting firm next state over in the Tetons. Nice spot to hit the books.

    Anyway, he says "Yet by 1962, human activities were putting as much sulfur dioxide into the atmosphere every 1.7 years as one of these large eruptions. That was enough to cause world temperatures to climb rapidly." More speechifying about humans and global warming in other words although he doesn't place the initial blame on us.

    The guy has some carbon credits to account for though - tetontectonics.org.
  • SSIEMSSSIEMS Member Posts: 10
    you don't here any one relating to the fact that the number of days with no sunspots last year broke records dating back over 150 years ago.Also it seems to be continuing this year.during this period of time solar radiation has decreaced 1.5%.
    In the 1700's this happened and there was a period of 40 years with no sunspots, also
    known as the little ice age.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Sunspots has come up in here a few times. Here's a pretty good digest of the issue:

    The “Little Ice Age” Argument Makes a Comeback: Abrupt Climate Change Goes Both Ways, Warns Scientist (Daily Galaxy).

    (Gary, your post didn't have anything to do with cars or climate so I pulled it).
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I was just getting bored with my scientist is better than your scientist. I think my post pinpointed a societal problem that is far greater than Man Made GW. Something that may raise its ugly head long before anyone gets forced from their beach front mansion by rising water. I don't know anyone rich enough to have a beach front mansion so I really don't give a rip about GW. In fact if it never froze again here where I live I would be happy. I lose exotic flowers with each drop below 30 degrees. We only had two days this winter so far that has hit 30 so it is very mild. Winter before last was brutal. I lost at least a dozen nice plumeria plants. Plus a 30 year old ficus tree and most of my bouganvilla & fox tail palms. I may have saved them if I had any smudge pots. I think they outlawed them in CA.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    This should make the most whacked out GW follower drool with envy...

    The Air car being built and sold in India by Tata Motors.

    http://www.mdi.lu/english/cityflowair.php

    image
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    One of my friends up north wants an air car. You still have to find some energy source to run the air compressor though.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    how about a bike pump :shades:

    It has an onboard compressor that will give you a range of nearly 1000 miles on 8 gallons of gas. Or it can be charged at a station equipped for quick charge. Sounds almost too good to be true. It will not help the congestion problem. But do wonders for the air.

    http://zeropollutionmotors.us/?page_id=43
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    You forgot to mention that it'll go 96 mpg too. $18k.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I don't think I would drive one at 96 MPH. I have to have at least a Porsche to feel safe at that speed. Here are more photos of the upcoming air cars.

    image

    image
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,709
    these MDI autos still have a separate tank for gasoline or CNG, whichever is chosen as the separate combustion chamber "accelerant" in which the car can be driven at a much further range than on the almost "token" compressed air.

    This one is kind of "iffy" looking to me, need more info. I still look at this type of car as an improvement over GM and their V8 mayhem. Good riddance. ;)

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Once upon a time those very same environmentalist BANNED cars you all pictured from coming into the country. Indeed most of the "sippers" still arent allowed in.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Cars aren't allowed in because they don't meet various regulations. Emissions, safety, etc. It sounds like ZPM is trying to build one for the US market. But if it's a smoke belching death trap, no thanks.

    Seems like a reasonable request.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    As if you didnt think folks knew that!!?? Another reason why they only let in the gas guzzlers, burning more is better policy.!!??
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I don't understand your point. Plenty of imports come in that get decent gas mileage (assuming for the sake of argument that a car getting 30 mpg isn't a gas guzzler in the US).
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,401
    "...back in his astronomy days when he was studying Venus..."

    Is THAT his basis for his belief? Well, that's certainly a stretch. Venus has a surface temp which is hot enough to melt lead. It also has an atmosphere made almost entirely of CO2. That atmosphere is also 30 times denser than Earth's. Venus is half the distance to the sun.

    To extrapolate what is going on with Venus to Earth is quite a leap.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Well the points are pretty easy, almost all the rules and regulations are literally bought,paid for and geared to the fuel "guzzlers of RUG to PUG" meeting the regulations. So that I am not vague, 10-15 mpg. @current standards of 27 mpg with defacto standards of 22 mpg FLEET. FLEET being 254.1 M US market vehicles.

    So while I would agree there are "SOME" so called fuel sippers, to use your " low standard" bar of 30 mpg, the segment that actually gets 30 mpg are in the minority population. So for example, compact cars with only the CABABILITY of increased fuel mileage (a LARGE percentage of them do not get good mileage) are less than 25% of the vehicle fleet population.

    But even www.Edmunds.com has an article on this, which because of K-12 math and science (lack there of- the non pc version) education, most folks do not fully comprehend about fuel savings.

    There are exceptions to that of course. But ultimately the real metric is to let folks have a choice without the force aspect. Indeed it is the "force or regulatory aspect that is keeping the consumption artifically high.

    So for example which has greater savings? 1. 15 mpg gassers with diesel options that now get say 30 mpg 2. VW Jetta that gets 50 mpg with improvements that now get 60 mpg? Here is a handi dandi plug in calculator for those educated in K-12 math and science. link title

    Don't like my numbers? Want to change things? etc etc. Go ahead !!

    One spin off: a sizable population of the passenger vehicle fleet (PUG users) pays a lot more per mile driven. I have NEVER seen estimates as to what % PUG users are. But I will certainly swag they are a HUGE % in comparison to the passenger diesel car population !!!
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    I know why the GW cultists ignore this but why hasn't this been covered up?

    Study: 'Astonishing richness' in polar sea species
    AP Environmental Writer Michael Casey, Ap Environmental Writer – Mon Feb 16, 7:39 am ET

    link title
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Is THAT his basis for his belief?

    I guess you never had a gotcha moment where thinking about one thing led to an insight about something else?

    Robins abandon Texas for Alaska.

    Fosters.com
  • xrmxrm Member Posts: 3
    There in No Way I have time to read this entire thread, but Al Gore's Global Warming Kick only shows how ignorant he is, and how desperate he is for attention.

    Al Gore and his cronies are so damm ignorant that they do not even realize that it was "Global Warming" that ended the last Ice Age, and that was LOOOOng before autos, or even humans.......

    Autos are a VERY SMALL part of Global Warming!

    If the Global Warming Nuts would just cap off all the volcanos in the world, 99% or "Global Warming" would be ended! The bad thing is that when Global Warming ends, we will return to another Ice Age.

    Than with the Volcanos capped off, and their energy tapped we would also solve all the world's energy problems without any fossel fuels or necular energy.
  • smithedsmithed Member Posts: 444
    As cool as it is outside, I could use some warming. I don't believe that junk about carbon footprints and global warming: I think it is another attempt by the left leaning to control our behaviour through government edict.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Actually the right and middle should be in there also. Literally overnight Bush created a MONSTER new federal agency (DHLS) the demos could only DREAM ABOUT.

    Under "Bush" foreign and domestic surveillance has increase exponentially !! The reason why we dont really know the extent is most to all of it is still and will remain probably for at least 50-75 years, at some of the highest top secret classifications.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    Ah, a new voice of sanity joins the fray. Welcome and please stick around so that we can try to educate some of these poor souls who have fell for the man made global warming scam.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    Sounds like another new voice showing some sound thinking. Welcome.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • wvgasguywvgasguy Member Posts: 1,405
    Actually the right and middle should be in there also

    Unfortunately stupidity has no political boundaries when it comes to falling in line with the GW mindset
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    We keep track of any different species of bird that shows up in our yard. My favorite for now are the dark eyed Juncos that are feeding outside my window. Birds change migration for other reasons besides the climate. Food source. Many waterfowl in Anchorage were attracted the water that did not freeze such as by power plants. They would stay all winter. I am sure my 5 hummingbird feeders attract more Orioles (3species) and hummingbirds than the average yard in San Diego. Audubon has gotten so caught up in the whole GW issue they have lost their way. Too bad they used to be a good organization.

    The real question is how do the American people feel about GW? Latest polls say only 30% think it is of any significant importance. More than I would guess being sucked into the religion.

    http://people-press.org/report/485/economy-top-policy-priority
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,401
    "...I guess you never had a gotcha moment where thinking about one thing led to insight about something else?..."

    Yes I have. I recall back in college thinking that beer drinking made you smart. As more data was collected I revised my theory. ;)

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

This discussion has been closed.

Your Privacy

By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our Visitor Agreement.