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Is Cadillac's Image Dying and Does Anyone Care?



  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 58,510
    edited June 2011
    Read the Article HERE:

    The Cadillac Obituary

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  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 23,048
    And, most importantly, will the public even notice this landmark change?

    It may not be that big of a deal, and in fact has been happening for a long time. For instance, I don't think the compact CTS has ever had a "true" Cadillac engine. IIRC, it always used the 2.8/3.0/3.6 corporate V-6 engine, while the V-8's got a version of the Corvette engine. Similarly, the midsize SLS mainly relied on the 3.6 V-6. The Cadillac Northstar V-8 was optional, but I believe the 3.6 still accounted for the bulk of sales.

    That leaves Caddy's flagship sedan, the DTS, which relies solely on the Northstar. And it's been selling in fewer and fewer numbers as the years have gone by, and I think they recently discontinued it altogether?

    FWIW, Cadillac's flaship sedan went for a decade without a Cadillac engine before. In 1986, they wisely chose to put the Olds 307 in the Brougham, rather than the underpowered, unreliable aluminum 4.1 V-8, which was the standard engine from 1982-85. Around 1989-90 they started offering a Chevy 350 as an option, but I think only for coach builders and trailering packages. The Olds 307 went out of production after 1990, and for 1991-92, you could get the Chevy 305 or 350 in the Brougham. For 1993-96, the car was renamed Fleetwood, and came only with a 350. It got the hot LT-1 in 1994, which was the same engine used in the Impala SS.

    I think as long as the car is still viewed as a step up in quality and luxury from the likes of Chevy and Buick, and if the corporate engines are at least offered in higher hp-configurations than with the lesser brands, Cadillac still has a chance.
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,738
    Considering that the CTS engine is, according to actual mechanics and engineers, the best thing that GM has ever built in one of their cars, I see no problem with that. It's basically designed by nearly identical minds and at a nearly identical plant to what Mercedes and BMW use in Germany.

    My mother's LeSabre idles like it has rocks in its engine compared to the new CTS. Just worlds apart.

    The King is dead.

    Long live the King!

  • "Besides, the Rolls-Royce seems to imitate a Kenworth truck nowadays."

    What's wrong with that? Some might argue that "Petes" are worthier of emulation, I guess...... The new top line IH is pretty cool, too. I always thought the Deusey "J" had a lot in common with a Peterbilt . I'll take my tongue partially out of my cheek now.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 42,976
    CTS is the only modern Caddy I would want. CTS-V wagon would be my pick. But I don't know if they can build the brand on models are needed yesterday.
  • berriberri Posts: 7,969
    Detroit lost the luxury market some years back. Cadillac is trying with somewhat unique designs and modern drivetrains. It may take awhile, but they've got a shot. I saw one of those new Lincoln MKT vehicles Ford is touting as a TC replacement - I think Lincoln may be toast.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 42,976
    Caddy is much stronger than Lincoln, for sure. I can't think of a new Lincoln I really want, at least there is a Caddy or two I wouldn't kick out of my garage.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,624
    Agreed. CTS-V coupe for me. But its funny how GM claims it's still the World Standard....for what?

    Unfortunately, Cadillac is getting a little ahead of itself by once again advertising “Standard of the World.” Here’s what’s missing to substantiate that claim:

    1. Sales – Cadillac is outsold in its home market by Lexus, BMW and Mercedes-Benz;
    2. Cadillac sells almost no cars outside the U.S. because no one other than Americans want them;
    3. European brands including Mercedes-Benz, Audi, BMW, Porsche, Ferrari, Maserati, Rolls Royce and Bentley are sought after and sold in most countries around the world. Mercedes, Audi and BMW each sell about a million cars per year worldwide. Cadillac sells fewer than 200,000, almost all in one country.

    So to suggest that Cadillac is the “Standard of the World” is simply not true.

    This is probably going to be called bashing but too bad! :)

  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 18,887
    are old enough to remember when Cadillac motors were special and sought after by street rodders and race car builders but that was back in the Jurassic. The Northstar is a pretty good engine but it's wasted on old coots driving DTS FWD barges and modern corporate economics does not allow for separate motors for each division.

    Do the hip-hop wannabes care if their 'Slade has a Chebbie under the hood? Do stop light racers mind that their CTS-V has a Corvette motor? Do DTS owners even know that the last real Caddy motor is under their hoods?

    No, no and no! ;)

    2000 BMW 528i, 2001 BMW 330CiC

  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 23,048
    I can't think of a new Lincoln I really want, at least there is a Caddy or two I wouldn't kick out of my garage.

    Same here. The CTS is a bit small for my tastes, but I can still appreciate it as a noble effort. And, even though it's getting a bit dinosaur-ish in automotive terms, I'd still be more than happy with a DTS. The SLS sort of gets lost in the shuffle to me, a quick glance, it seems indistinguishable from the CTS.

    As for Lincoln, the only one I would really want is the Town Car, but I think that one's finally been discontinued completely, or, at best is for special order/fleet only. I kinda like the MK-whatever that's based on the Fusion, although its humble origins are all-too obvious. In general though, Lincoln just doesn't seem upscale enough to me, anymore, though. Even the Town Car seemed like it was getting cheap on the inside, essentially a taxi with leather seats.

    It was either Lemko or Grbeck who summed it up perfectly at one of the Carlisle Ford shows... "Lincoln. What a Mercury SHOULD be!"
  • fintailfintail Posts: 42,976
    Standard of the world for American cars? :shades:
  • fintailfintail Posts: 42,976
    I think the STS is out of production now, maybe the DTS too. Will impact rental fleets more than anyone else. TC is slated to die off in a few months, I think....can't imagine that it has earned a retail sale in years.

    Maybe killing Mercury was premature - move the existing Lincoln line to that brand and give Lincoln some actual new product, like Caddy got several years ago. Ford could make the investment...too late now though.
  • lemkolemko Philadelphia, PAPosts: 15,294
    I'm very much aware of that Northstar engine under my DTS' hood and am hardly an old coot. It's one good reason my DTS may become another lifetime car for me.
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,738
    It's a shame about the STS, as it was the bigger version of the (previous generation) CTS that was unfortunately off of everyone's radar. I'd rate it as comparable to a 7 series. ie - very good and sporty, but no, not an S-Class or true luxo-barge. I really hope that GM decides to replace it with something even better.

    And, yes, GM sells Cadillac in China. The STS is still sold over there, where it has a much nicer interior than the U.S. version. My personal hope is that the Chinese interior/styling makes its way back over here.

    Looking at the XTS information and auto show pictures, it looks like it's going to be exactly what we wanted. A bigger, better CTS for those who want a big executive cruiser and who don't want to deal with the insanity of the European brands when it comes to repairs and upkeep costs. (yes I know about BMW's program, but it's not going to help you on a 5 year old vehicle. )
  • fezofezo Manahawkin, NJPosts: 10,333
    I like that CTS wagon. In another couple of years I can pick up a lightly used one for less than a new Accord. Nice.
    2013 Mazda 5 Grand Touring, 2010 Toyota Prius IV. 2007 Toyota Camry XLE, 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999 Mazda Miata
  • fintailfintail Posts: 42,976
    STS-V would be interesting and rare, but the rest...meh. It seems to have been about 3/4 finished, good for 2005, hard to justify still being sold mostly untouched in 2010.

    XTS looks pretty cool. Caddy needs to build this image, not only an image of harsh angles for the sake of hard angles, and blingy SUVs beloved by wannabe gangstas, trophy wives, and old men.

    Only at GM could the Chinese market offerings look interesting.
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,738
    But the XTS "image" is what's being sold in China. I can't complain about improvements. The first gen vs 2nd gen CTS was just immensely better inside. I can SO stand more of that ;)
  • fintailfintail Posts: 42,976
    GM does have a better image there than here - XTS is still in pre-production though, isn't it?

    I know what you mean with the original CTS - a co-worker bought one when they were fairly new, and I remember looking it over...dashboard texture in particular turned me off.
  • marsha7marsha7 Posts: 3,703
    will die, but I would simply place it as another bit player in the lower end luxury car market...years ago you had Caddy, Lincoln and Imperial, and the imports had few cars coming in NY foreign dealers had many brands under one roof (Mercedes, Jag, BMW, maybe even Rolls and Bentley) simply because no one brand sold enough cars to create any volume or profits for the, each brand individually can support a dealer, so you have separate Audi, Lexus, Infiniti, Jag, MB, BMW, Caddy is almost the only American "luxury" car and it is probably overshadowed by the foreign competition...

    Caddy has a place at the table, just like Chevrolet, but Caddy will NEVER be a fraction of what it once was...and that crap about "Standard of the World" is almost shameful...maybe they should change the slogan to "American Luxury & Performance" which would probably describe it well...
  • 2 months into the 08 SRX you said you loved it and looked forward to your drive each morning,,, 4 weeks into a new car is too soon to give a good review that could influence a potential buyer... I hope no one was affected by your premature assessment of this Vehicle...
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Posts: 2,770
    Not for nothing, but 2 months is 8 WEEKS, not 4. Did you really think they would reply to something from 3 yrs ago???
  • steverstever Posts: 52,683
    edited August 2012
    "As well as the CTS, Cadillac has two other new models coming in the next year, the next-generation Escalade full-size SUV and the ELR, a luxury, extended-range electric coupe using technology from the Chevrolet Volt.

    Beyond these models, Cadillac is working on more new vehicles than at any time in its history. "We are expanding and elevating our brand in terms of design and technology," says Don Butler, marketing chief."

    Cadillac seeks to regain luxury title (Detroit News)

    "GM plans to introduce 10 all-new or redesigned Cadillacs, including two that hit the market this summer, executives told reporters.

    GM wants to "restore Cadillac to be the standard of the world" and wants to capture a larger share of the global luxury vehicle market, said Don Butler, Cadillac's vice president of marketing."

    GM intends to double Cadillac's sales in U.S. (Detroit Free Press)
  • marsha7marsha7 Posts: 3,703
    does Caddy have a chance to survive???...are there enough folks who now avoid Caddy as part of "Government Motors" that might have bought a Caddy before the govt bailout???

    I have a few friends that will not buy any GM product due to the bailout, looking at either Ford or the imports...
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 8,862
    I'd have to say that the vast majority of folks really don't look at it as "Government Motors" and really don't care.

    Personally I'd buy a Cadillac over the competing European model as I believe the Cadillac is a better value.
  • marsha7marsha7 Posts: 3,703
    I guess I am surprised...I don't see how one can see it as anything BUT govt motors...esp since that is probably one of the linchpins of Obama's campaign, that he saved GM...
  • fintailfintail Posts: 42,976
    IMO Caddy is still in a rebuilding mode. Not going down anymore, they just need more brand equity via better image and products. I am cautiously optimistic for the brand.

    Also IMNSHO, the "government motors" babble is more bitterness from the birther/"we built this" crowd (who didn't) who can't stand to see that the previous big election might be repeated again soon.
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 8,862
    I guess I am surprised...I don't see how one can see it as anything BUT govt motors...esp since that is probably one of the linchpins of Obama's campaign, that he saved GM...

    It depends on your crowd. Here in the northeast, I have never heard the phrase "Government Motors" nor felt a bias against GM. Based on what I've read of your postings, you and yours are a litter "redder" than I am. :)
  • Marsha 7 and her "few friends" may see GM as Government Motors, the rest of us see GM as, well, GM. We are thankful that President Obama took action to save GM from likely extinction. We recognize the many jobs which were saved as a result of President Obama's involvement. One shudders to contemplate the different result had Bain been involved.
  • steverstever Posts: 52,683
    Let's stick to Cadillac please; there's plenty of politics everywhere else you look.
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