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The New Scion 2008 xD
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to which i reply - ohplezz
Decidedly not. When's the diesel coming?
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
The gap between xD and xB has remained the same ($1,300) even though the xB now has a bigger/proven engine. (xB is 4 inches wider inside, 4 inches more rear leg room, 15 cubic feet more interior space, and 3 gallon bigger gas tank.) Scion must be banking on the need for better mileage (22/28 for the xB and 26/32 for xD).
A similarly equipped Yaris is $2200 cheaper than the xD, and has been proven with a well known engine. And with Yaris you can strip it down and save another $1200. This price gap would be further inflated if dealers are piling on additional charges to Scion prices. Note that interior/exterior dimensions of the two cars are very similar, with the two additional doors on the xD being the biggest difference. According to Edmunds owner discussions folks seem to adjust quickly to the center mounted instruments in the Yaris and overall are enjoying the car.
I guess Scion really doesn't want to sell anything but the xB and tC. :confuse:
Will there be a diesel or a hybrid in xD's future, do you think?
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Also, I would suggest you actually wait until the car is here to drive it before making back-to-back assertions about highway ride with other models.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
In fact, with 2 doors, significantly less power, a plain sound system.... the cheapest I can keep it comparably equipped is $14,500...
Not that they are really comparable vehicles, hence the name change. They are both Scions below the xB. That's about what they share in common.
DrFill
ABS and side curtains don't mean squat to me. Frankly I'd rather not have ABS as it engages too soon/often on snow or ice (especially on GMs but even on my '97 Camry). And I'd trade both for better brakes/tires in a heartbeat. I'd rather have more control to avoid s to start with. Apart from these items I priced out a Yaris here at Edmunds, so I'm not sure where your numbers are coming from.
I have a $5000 stereo at home (plus a second stereo plus a separate HT system) and IMO it's stupid to think you can hear true fidelity above road/engine/wind noise (especially in an inexpensive hatchback). So again, fancy car radios don't show up at all on my radar screen.
Yes, Yaris has less horsepower, but how the extra power in the xD translates into real world driving (or even test track numbers) is yet to be seen. As Yaris weighs about 400 pounds (15%) less than xD it is probably close to a performance tie.
Yes, Yaris hatchbacks are 2 doors, not 4 (as I mentioned previously). As this would be a commuter car for me alone to drive 2 doors and power windows/locks/mirrors don't much matter either. (The $2200 difference in pricing I did included power windows/doors, but you could save another $500 by deleting them.)
I'm not saying that Yaris would be a nicer car than xD, just that comparing size, features, and expected performance the xD is pricey. And since Yaris doesn't have much of a mark-up its almost like Scion pricing (without the Scion dealer add-on fees).
As the 2007 Camry CE cost $2,300 more than the 2008 xB (from Edmunds), where will that put Corolla pricing compared to xD? Again, too high I fear.
Your blanket statement was that the xD is $2200 more than the Yaris, but REALLY what you meant was that the xD stickers for $2200 more than the Yaris YOU'D buy - sans abs, side curtains, modern conveniences, etc. That's fine, I just found it misleading.
At the end of the day, I'm sure Toyota could care less - they've now got 5 different models to cover buyer choice in the sub $20K arena (6 if you count Yaris h/b and sedan separately). If you buy a Yaris instead of an xD, the company is no worse off...
~alpha
DrFill
I just re-read Consumer Union's review of the Yaris, and it's not real pretty. Like the Cobalt/Cavalier upgrade, the Yaris/Echo upgrade was a welcomed improvement but still not satisfying when compared to the competition. Apparently its the Toyota name that is selling it (efficiency and reliability being good things).
As I put 25,000 - 30,000 miles on per year, I want satisfying and economical. So I might be back to the xD. If wifey is set on a new xB, I wanted something a bit different. The new Corolla would fill that bill but I can't see paying more for it than a xB (as the expected pricing would dictate). OTOH the early owner comments here at Edmunds for the new xB are quite glowing with highway fuel economy rated into the low 30s. So for $1300 more for much more of a car, I'm torn. :confuse:
BTW around here year old Honda/Toyota products typically sell for $1000 less than current new prices, making the used option pretty pointless (to give up warrantee and better interest rates on loans).
I think the Scion xD needs a test drive but Daihatsu :confuse:
That makes me worry.
Here is the quote
"It didn't’t fail. Daihatsu assembled the original Scion xB, supplies the new xB and xD to Toyota, and sells a version of the ’08 xB as the Daihatsu Materia. Your homework: Google the Daihatsu Tanto, the Daihatsu Mira Gino, and the (defunct) Daihatsu Naked. We can’t help feeling that this corn-fed, overweight, thoroughly Americanized xB represents a squandered opportunity to give us something really different."
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
basically try and name a decent car they ever made or sold here. Ask anyone who owned one if they were any good and you'll find people using very bad words to describe them. One guy told me they make Hyundai's look like a BMW!
They have also been compared to Yugo's. Overseas models, i can't say. but I never met anyone who liked a Daihatsu.
Either way the bottom line is who would buy a new and improved Yugo? :confuse:
daihatsu screwed up for whatever reason and they have been gone a long time. Hyundai has worked very hard to get from the bottom of the barrel to the middle of the barrel.
i'm not saying the xD will be an awful car but for me the fact it is actually a Daihatsu will affect my decision at some point. The Honda Fit has really uncomfortable seats and doesn't easily get the economy it should. I had a 2005 Jazz so i know first hand about that.
The Scion xD has possibilities but it's brand new model and now a Daihatsu made one. If Honda only made wagons like before instead of SUV's.
Still I'll have to test drive one first.
Gauges are electric (nothing to see until the engine starts). The odd dash design around the gauges didn’t feel as awkward as they appear in photos. Everything looked well built and fit me (5’-7”) very well. There are four cup holders, the center ones are small. You sit up quite chair like (I like that). There’s lots of back seat leg room (with the seats moved all the way back, they have 6 inches of travel). With the driver’s seat about where I’d have it, I had 5 inches of room from my knees to back of the front seat. However the rear seat headrest when down hit my upper back and had to be extended quite a ways up for proper adult fit (probably a child safety thing that they go that low).
Obviously the “trunk” is small, but has a number of cubbies around the spare and of course those rear seats can move forward. The car is already prepped for XM.
Under the hood things looked less promising. Self-serving won’t be easy as the engine compartment is fairly tight (however the hood opens nearly 90 degrees). Some disassembly of fuse boxes, etc. would be required to change headlamps. Checking fluid levels are easy enough, but the green battery light is tucked under the wiper/fire wall such that it’s hard to see (at least in full daylight).
The new xB is almost truck like in comparison (heavier, bigger, more powerful). The xD should get about 20% better fuel economy. I’m not planning on buying until next summer, so I’ll probably wait to take test drives for a while. But my early choices are xB, xD, new Corolla, and Civic. For the 25-30,000 miles a year I do mostly by myself, the xD looks the most promising.
Mackabee
Mackabee
To "lay downs" I would assume.
Mack
I have no idea who builds it or where I know Toyota owns Scion but that's about it.
As far as Car & Driver goes usually they are ok about most of what they print. Motor Trend on the other hand is so obviously biased depending on who gets the most advertising that it's like watching pro-wrestlling and thinking that the outcome of the match isn't predetermined.
Hopefuly build quality will be good.
I guess they are already arriving at dealers.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
50 mph baby!
What problems do you have with the Scion dealers? We are seriously considering the Scion as a second car for my wife and I don't care about steel wheels in fact I LOVE it!
Now I can buy whatever wheels I want aftermarket and use the stock steel ones for winter tires,so for me that's a plus.
I haven't heard about the Civic as a diesel, do you have a link? I have heard the Accord will be available as a late 2008 model but that's not official. Give me a diesel accord any day and it's a real world 50mpg!
50 mph baby!
See you in the Sloooooow lane :P
I think you meant 50 mpg!
I'd really like to hear about your experiences with the Scion dealers tho.
Mack
One of the features on the xD I was looking forward to is the cruise control. I couldn't find any indicator light on the dash showing when the cruise control was on. Could it be that Scion added cruise control at the last moment and had no provisions for an indicator light?
I also don't like the Scion radios that look just like an aftermarket radio (meaning they may get stolen by people who think they are aftermrket stereos).
Thanks for the suggestions. For me the xD is one of a few cars we are looking at as a second car for my wife.
I hear you on the doc fees tho and if a dealer ever told me it's $300-900 I'd just say ok well, knock it down to $50 which is reasonable. If they didn't, I'd walk. I absolutely hate the way that dealers have been with the Honda Fit and many of the small economy cars. Charging full MSRP, few if any discounts. Now they have a right to do that but they will lose my business. My wife doesn't want a big car like the Accord, but if I can buy an Accord for a few grand more over a Fit or Scion it's a better deal.
Unfortunately we will be screwed because when we get back to the USA we will need a car within a week. That means we will not have time to wait for a Honda diesel.
We did think maybe just use 1 car for a year and then get a diesel. That is also a possibility.
No doubt we are dealing from a disadvantage however there are some volume dealers in that area and when it's time to buy we will have a check in hand. So no financing which the dealers also hate.
Buying a vehicle in the Philippines is also no haggle. You pay the price or you don't get the vehicle and salespeople are not on commission. They are paid about $5 daily.
Which is an average daily wage.
So they don't care if you buy or not.
I don't want used so I might either buy upscale or buy down scale and ante up for a diesel when the come out. I just don't know yet.
Once the fuel goes up the dealer gouging will hopefully get less. Limiting the Fit was a stupid move on the part of Honda and Honda salespeople are generally very snobbish and rude. Their service dept is usually great tho.
I am so going to miss driving a diesel but not much I can do unless they release it in January.
Thanks....
Mackabee
Thanks, actually I'll be living in the boonies of New Hampshire and there is NO public transit at all!
My wife likes the Fit, we already owned a Jazz here so we are familiar with the car. My wife is partial to sports cars and basically; anything that lets me drive like a maniac! :surprise:
So we need a regular car for shopping and normal city stuff, she wants an EVO for a family car. (What a Great Wife!)
But the Scion xD and the Fit are dealer ripoff cars in the US, as they overcharge big for them. I paid like $12K for my 1.3L Jazz and in the US it's going to be a feast on my wallet. The EVO won't be out until March and no Mini dealers are anywhere nearby so Honda is at the top of the list and then Scion. A Civic Si would be good but I don't think my wife can drive it with the revs screaming up at 8600 rpms! not after coming out of a diesel. Also she likes torque so we'll see.
I never saw a woman love to drift and smoke the tires as much as my wife does! of course she prefers this on dirt roads....
The Fit or Scion would allow me to buy the EVO unless it crazy priced. I thought about the BMW 135i but the RFT's are troublesome and no room for a spare so that's almost a deal killer right there, ditto the Cooper S.
The Fit and Scion have hauling room but the seats in the Jazz were kinda hard and the Fit is the same but the Scion looks like it will have better seats. I'm still a bit concerned about it being a Yaris tho. Just in the showroom here the manual was clunky and was like stirring coal. My wife hated the manual in the Yaris, and does not want us to buy the car. She thinks the manual in my Hi-Lux is miles better.
Plus snow is a factor for us and I'd hate to buy the new fugly Impreza but the base model is $18K and I might be able to swing it. I'd rather have a Honda for longevity. A hatch is better for us and we need snow tires in the winter anyway.
I might buy an older WRX and RallyCross it, but that's not reliable transport that we both need right away and our free time is limited. Up there you cannot get anywhere without a car. it's mandatory and reliable is a keyword up there. Honda, Subaru, Toyota and Chevy, Ford and Dodge trucks are very common.
Thanks for the suggestions.
The inside was definitely lower than my car, but it was enough headroom for my 6 foot frame. The back seat was slightly less. In legroom, the front was great and the back was not bad. It was no comparision to my xB, but I was not touching the seatback either. The rear headrests need to be lowered when the back seat is unoccupied to not block your rear view. The back window is pretty small. Both the front and back seats are very comfortable.
The front seats door armrest was a minus. They were too low. Shorter people should have more use with it. The center armrest is still an option. In the back seat, the door was perfect.
I liked the gauges. The fuel gauge is digital. The speedometer and the tachometer are unique. I liked the creativity. The orange night lights were attractive. The stereo was awesome. I noticed 8 speakers in the car. The AC worked great and I live in FL.
The most impressive thing was the ride. Its a highway car, my current xB is not. This surprised me. Its also quiet for the size of the car. Its quieter than my xB at highway speed. Even though, there is a place for a blind spot in the left back corner, I had no trouble.
The rear cargo area is small though. Grocerys are fine. However, you would have to use the back seat for anything else. Vertical cargo would have to be flat, unlike my xB.
In terms of power, the auto felt faster than my manual xB, but I know thats relative. I would imagine that the manual xD would be fun.
The steering was very tight and responsive, but all Scions are known for this.
The car comes with front and side airbags.
In conclusion, I liked it and was very impressed. My xB is still the most unique (in my opinion), but the new xD is no question an improvment over the last xA or xB when it comes to ride, safety, and layout. Although, I still like my center gauges in my xB. The new xD is much closer to my xB than the new one. The styling looks like a mini matrix, but it sure doesn't drive like a matrix especially in the driving position.
I worry about how easy for me or cheap for the service guys it will be with the cramped engine compartment (but its not worse than Civic or Fit).
Glad to read that it is "a highway car" as most of my driving is rural. This would be a long distance commuter car just for me, with occasional trips into the big city where the automatic would come in handy.
I'd to fit my golf clubs sideways, we'll see.
I found those reat head rests were in the middle of my upper back when down, but I can understand how they'd block the rear view when up (like many cars).
We'll have to see how actual mileage, etc. works out.
Unfortunately Honda, Toyota, Subaru, and VW families of cars have the only strong dealer networks around here.
Yes i am a very lucky guy to have a woman like her. She is truly great!
I have owned Mazda's in the past and I really liked my Miata and Ford never got near to touching that with their gremlin filled hands. But I really do see Mazda as a Japanese Ford and in general I don't feel like they are good people to buy from or deal with. I even put up a review about my Miata on Edmunds Dealer Reviews as buying it was a nightmare, service I had a guy who was a Miata specialist do everything else.
That's why I never considered Mazda in any configuration.
but it was nice. the interior shine around the stereo was a bit of a turn off, and the interior fabric is not as nice as the fit's.