2001 - 2006 Honda CR-Vs

ateixeira · July 2003

What can I say, you got me!

) OK, so I was way off on the pedestrian thing. Nice link, BTW.

But that very page talks about the importance of accident prevention, i.e. active safety, and ABS in particular. So really it supports my argument. They also mention VSC, another thing I'd like to see in this class.

The TSX looks really sweet, I'd like to sample one soon, maybe add it to the Town Hall Test Drive topic. I just re-posted my review of the CR-V there, BTW.

That yellow scooter is cool. Reminds me of my old 1984 Honda Aero 125.

-juice

varmint · July 2003

No problem. We all get burned on speculation from time to time.

robr2 · July 2003

Honda already offers a number of other safety features in Japan such as an intersection camera on the LaGreat and I think adaptive cruise. The market there demands cutting edge features.

Things like VSC will trickle down in NA as the market demands them. No SAB's in the Accord DX leads me to believe that DX buyers wouldn't pay for them. I mean they won't pay for AC and that IMHO is a safety system on hot days in megalopolis traffic!!

robmarch · July 2003

interesting. all I know is, I drove a car with no ABS for the past 6 years. I never had any problems stopping shorter than the car in front of me, but I'm one of those drivers that's always leaving space to the car in front and looking 3-4 cars ahead, "just in case". I can't count the number of times I've been able to stop, but the person behind me had to swerve around my rear bumper at the last minute into the shoulder, because they couldn't. If they weren't tailgating me, they could have stopped easily. But, the ABS makes it much easier to steer and brake at the same time in those situations.

let's put it this way. On a commuter, I could definitely live without ABS. But, I really want the car behind me to have it

I'm also not sure we can trust the company giving the discount to decide whether or not there's a difference, especially since so many cars are getting the discount now. Convenient for them, I'd say. I also get an ABS discount on my cars.

ateixeira · July 2003

The JDM market is hyper-competitive, Subaru is the same way. They've had 240hp Foresters with built-in navigation systems for half a decade now.

I agree about A/C, in DC's humid summer's you probably could die without it!

I had a Saturn sans ABS plow into the back of me, my ABS stopped short and straight, she skidded in the fresh rain that had started, even hit me at an angle. Fortunately my hitch took the brunt of it, well, that and her Saturn.

Some people claim they can modulate their brakes as well as ABS, but to do that they would need to be an arachnoid. Let me explain. ;-)

You'd need 4 brake pedals to modulate each brake independently. Otherwise you get least-common-denominator braking. If you ease off the brakes when the first wheel locks up, you're not getting maximum stopping power from the other 3 wheels.

So get ABS. Unless you're a spider and your car has 4 brake pedals.

-juice

icvci · July 2003

Honda had a really cool feature on one of their new Acura models. (I think it's the TL.) Instead of wipers, they used a jet of air to keep the windshield clear. Did anyone else see that? Supposedly it's the first major advancement in windshield cleaning since the advent of the wiper.

ateixeira · July 2003

That was very neat. They showed that concept at the NY Auto Show. I drove up with a buddy and we saw it in person. Very cool.

The styling is sleeker, looks like a big brother to the TSX all the way.

It's doubtful those windshield blowers (?) will make production, but that was innovative to say the least. With some Rain X I bet it would work really well.

Here is Edmunds coverage, though they didn't even mention that slick feature:

http://www.edmunds.com/news/autoshows/articles/96999/page005.html

-juice

varmint · July 2003

I think the crash avoidance system on the Inspire (JDM version fo the US spec Accord) is the most interesting safety feature from Honda. Other companies have similar designs, but Honda really takes it to the extreme.

icvci · July 2003

Excerpts from an interview with Honda's new prez.

http://mlive.com/newsflash/michigan/index.ssf?/base/business-0/10- 57847040240110.xml

gatorgreg · July 2003

Hey icvci, there was an acura press release on the concept tl that briefly mentions the jet nozzle "wipers". Here's a link:

http://www.hondanews.com/Forms/corp/*ws4d-db-query-Show.ws4d?*ws4- d-db-query-Show***004131***-wieck_media***-***corp(directory)***.- ws4d?corp/results(r)_text.html

varmint · July 2003

Hiya Gator!

As long as we're still at it. Here's a link on the Collision Mitigation System I mentioned before.

http://www.detnews.com/2003/autosinsider/0306/02/autos-180858.htm

icvci · July 2003

I saw that but, it really doesn't offer much insight. I saw it work on a TV show, can't remember where though. I'd bet it's something Honda will put into production soon. Probably not exactly what Bosch, Annco and other wiper blade manufacturers want to hear.

varmint · July 2003

Icvci - Actually they may not be able to. Federal regulations state that a car must have wipers. I guess they never planned on someone coming up with a different design.

sogama · July 2003

I'm currently driving a Jeep Cherokee(not 4WD), but am considering replacing it with an AWD CR-V. I'm interested in something that will handle steep driveways and the occasional steep & twisting Forest Service road when we vacation in the Smokey Mountains. Not what I would consider "serious off-roading," but some of these driveways and dirt roads off the B.R. Parkway can be pretty challenging for a "flatlander," and we plan to spend more time in the mountains in the future. Would appreciate anyone with experience driving in the mountains telling me whether you think the CR-V AWD can handle these conditions, or should I look at a Jeep Liberty?

varmint · July 2003

Soqama - The CR-V will be more than enough for what you describe. While I wouldn't recommend the CR-V if you are interested in the sport of off-road driving, it does well enough on rutted trails and loose gravel.

Although an automatic transmission is often preferred for ease of operation, you might want to consider the 5 speed. First gear is extremely low and can function almost like a creeper gear. It probably won't be necessary, but, if you like manual transmissions, there's another reason to get one.

ateixeira · July 2003

Call your state representative. The law has to catch up. LOL

-juice

timmackay · July 2003

I have decided to purchase a CR-V EX. After researching and test-driving the 2003 EX model, I know what options I like and what to expect performance-wise from the vehicle. Edmunds.com has been a great resource during my buying decisions--many thanks...

But I am wondering has anyone heard what improvements (if any) Honda has planned for the 2004 model? Such as higher horse-power, color options (a monochrome look), interior features, etc... Any major improvements will affect my buying decision.

Thanks,
Tim

joey2brix · July 2003

I don't think there will be any model changes in '04 for any of the lines. Maybe colors? Side curtain air bags might be thrown in all over the place to get the saftey ratings back up. There are summer finance deals going on now since most dealers have inventory.

timmackay · July 2003

Maybe it is because I am from New Hampshire, but I haven't seen any out of the ordinary finance deals for CR-Vs. I visited a dealer yesterday and he quoted "mid-fours" for a percentage rate for 60 months. There was also no CR-Vs on the lot, "since they are still high demand, all over New England." I think it is because there are not many '03s left to go around... I put a hold on one coming in mid next week--a blue EX, the color and trim I was looking for. The price quoted was about $1,000 over invoice. What do you think?

joey2brix · July 2003

Adverts in the NY local papers had 2 dealers with 0% on in stock models. True, they may not have tons on the lot like civics and accords. I guess you lack a big Honda dealership network in NH to play on the price. Elements seem to be in bigger supply since they're assembled in OH.

icvci · July 2003

Go into your dealer pre-approved for financing elsewhere. Often, they'll give you a better rate just to get your money.

I did that while purchasing my Protege5. I came in with 4.49 and they got me 3.8.

Either way you win. I used Peoples Choice but, I believe they were just bought-out.

We bought a blue EX. While I love the color, I'm not fond of the frequent baths it needs to keep it looking good. (My cars don't go through automatic washes.) I'd opt for silver if I had to do it again.

quaffapint · July 2003

I know in Philly, PA area, prices for 03 CRVs are STILL near MSRP. There are no finance deals to be found - I keep looking and calling...

So it would be silly to pay for an 03 when I can wait for an 04. Even with the possible $300-$400 off MSRP I might get, it's not worth the @$1000 resale gain for an 04 vs 03 at some point down the road.

-Matt

aggie1995 · July 2003

icvci · July 2003

I just saw an ad for Honda's summer selldown. Time to move 2003 inventory. Some deals should be available soon.

icvci · July 2003

Just got the 8/03 issue of Motor Trend. They have a manual Forester 2.5 XT going 0-60 in an estimated 8.5. Wasn't the normally aspirated 5 speed CR-V hitting right arond 8.7?

Hmmmmm.....

varmint · July 2003

I thought that was a misprint. Like maybe they had printed the Baja's time for both vehicles. However, they had the Baja turbo listed .1 seconds slower. FWIW, I still think they are wrong. (In fact I e-mailed them about it.)

Getting back on topic, The CR-V 5 speed has been clocked at 8.1, 8.16, 8.4, 8.5, and 8.8 seconds, so the average is more like 8.4 for the stick. Automatics are about 7/10ths slower. Neither is close to what the Turbo Forester should do, but not bad for only 160 horsies.

icvci · July 2003

I'd agree, it's gotta be more like 7-7.5. Seeing as the 2.5XS does 0-60 in 8.6.

ateixeira · July 2003

I think MT printed the 0-60 for the normally aspirated XS model by mistake. That's estimated, anyway.

C&D reached 60mph in 5.3 (five point three, not a typo) seconds in an XT 5 speed. That's quicker than all 3 S2000s they've tested by the way. It also shows its taillights to the Cayenne S, FX45, 350Z, G35 coupe, Murano, Volvo S60R, Z4 3.0, Boxster, even Subaru's own WRX.

So it's rather hilarious, but if a millionaire with all those cars in his fleet wanted to take out the quickest one, he'd drive the Forester XT and leave the two Porsches at home.

They are absurdly fast. Before I read those test results I speculated that it felt quicker than the Altima I test drove (C&D 5.9 seconds), and I was right. Go drive one, 235 ft-lbs of torque with relatively little weight and short gearing, the results are astonishing.

The auto has taller gears and ratios farther apart, but it has the same final drive. I don't think anyone has done an instrumented test yet, but I've driven it and it's easily a low 7 seconds to 60, that's without trying. It's merely fast, not absurdly so like the 5 speed.

One acquaintance took his XT auto to the track and reached the 1/4 mile in 16 seconds, that translates to the 7 second range to 60.

You gotta pay to play, gas mileage is 18/23 and that's with premium fuel. But then, the S2000 requires premium fuel also, and that engine in a CR-V wouldn't even come close to an XT.

FWIW I think the CR-V is plenty peppy and can't reasonably say anyone "needs" more power than it offers, unless you tow or drive at high elevations.

I also think the Forester XS is reasonably powerful. CR's was quicker than their Element with better gas mileage to boot (they were tested for the same issue).

-juice

aggie1995 · July 2003

even passingly the S2000 to the Forrester XT?

Haaaaaahahhhhhahahahahahahahahahahah

ateixeira · July 2003

That's exactly my point. The XT is quicker than many sports cars.

Like I said, absurd. You seem to agree. I'm happy you have a great sense of humor about it! :-)

-juice

icvci · July 2003

FWIW I think the CR-V is plenty peppy and can't reasonably say anyone "needs" more power than it offers, unless you tow or drive at high elevations.

But Motor Trend was a bit disappointed in the fact that the Forester only pulls 2400 with the 5 speed and 2000 with the auto. I know, the CR-V is stuck at 1500. I just don't think 2000-2400 is much to write to mom about.

ateixeira · July 2003

Those are capacities, I'm talking about having torque to spare when you are hauling those loads. The XT has the same capacity as the XS, but it will handle the load much more easily.

But yeah, some of use were hoping Subaru would beef those up, sure.

The 2.5T is tuned very conservatively, it makes just 210hp (*) despite having the semi-closed block and forged pistons from the WRX STi. It's basically a de-tuned STi engine, not a built-up XS 2.5l EJ25 Phase II engine. Pretty impressive.

-juice

* some of think actual HP is grossly understated, we're awaiting the first dyno reports. I say 250hp or so, gross, if you do some math with 0-60 results for the 5 speed

icvci · July 2003

impressed.

ateixeira · July 2003

I really think the class is expanding to include some performance models, and I'd still like to see Honda to a Type R version of the CR-V, at least a Type S.

Remember how nice the Open Air was? varmint pointed out the 190hp 2.4l from Japan still uses regular fuel. Honda could have an economy/sports entry in that upper segment and lead in efficiency for sure, if not outright power.

Hyundai put the 3.5l V6 in the Sante Fe, and the Vue Redline is on the way. I can't imagine a CR-V Type R would compete with the family oriented Pilot, so why not?

What do you folks think?

-juice

icvci · July 2003

I don't see the need for it. It's a niche vehicle and Honda has recently stated they are interested in making their cars even more reliable. Sure, it would be neat but, I don't think there is a big market for it in today's economy. Especially considering what it will do to insurance rates.

They generally leave tuning to the aftermarket suppliers and have one of the best followings for such parts. I don't expect that to change.

aggie1995 · July 2003

I guess we'll se from how the Vue Redline and the Subie XT do what the market is for these niche vehicles. I think Subie is taking a conservative bet on their vehicle, using existing body and engines. Saturn is taking a risk by outsourcing their engine from Honda who surely has a deal to sell X amount of engines regardless of how many Redlines sell.

But I wouldn't mind seeing what a 225 HP V6 would look like in a CR-V especially if it could run on regular. What about a smaller block version of the V6 used in the Accord. maybe a 2.7L?

kyfdx · July 2003

This sounds scary to me. It seems they would have to put a completely different driveline in the car, because there is no way the current system could handle anything like this. Not to mention something along the lines of 225/55-17's for rubber and some serious suspension/shock tweaking...

kyfdx

william21 · July 2003

Just purchased a Honda LX and have seen posts mentioning the purchase of the Honda Care Warranty direct from Honda, but when I go to hondacars.com or honda.com they mention the warranty but say see dealer. Can you purchase on line or not?

The dealer we bought from offered a warranty from Hendrick autoguard, but I did not think to ask about a Honda backed warranty at the time. I plan to ask the dealer, but I want to know for sure if you can purchase direct from Honda before I ask.

Any input appreciated.

By the way, we love the way the Honda drives.

tigerinroc · July 2003

Went to a dealer here in Rochester NY to look for a 2003 CRV two days ago. Did not realize that you have to be on a list to get a CRV, even to get a 2003 in September!!

Well, tried to make a deal for a 2004 which comes in October. The deal for a 2004 LX 4WD Silver is:

$20,560 (2003 MSRP) - $700 (discount) + $1,295 for accessories (security system, fog light kit, front splash guards, floor mats, and leather steering wheel leather), excluding NYS tax of 8.25% (Ouch!).

Is it a good deal?

Thank you for your thoughts.

ateixeira · July 2003

I haven't heard yet, but my guess is the Vue will run on premium. So does the XT.

I think the 190hp version of the current engine is enough of a step up, without increasing cost or weight too much. A V6 would be heavy and less efficient.

17" might be overkill, but what about the 16" rims from the Element? That should be an option even without the extra power.

icvci brings up an interesting point, though, the tuners. What about Honda's in-house FP (Factory Performance)? I can see them offering a kit for the CR-V, with a factory backed warranty.

-juice

kyfdx · July 2003

You can't buy the warranty direct from Honda. It has to be from a dealer. However, Hondawarranty.com is run by a Honda dealer, and they have great prices. Your dealer may choose to match their price. The reason your dealer pushed the other warranty is because he makes a big profit on it. Run away from that one.

regards,
kyfdx

kyfdx · July 2003

The Element has 6" wide rims. (I know I'll be corrected if I'm wrong..LOL). Actually, the Pilot has 16 x 6.5" and the MDX has 17 x 6.5", that both match the bolt pattern and offset of the CRV, and would work better with the wider tires.

regards,
kyfdx

icvci · July 2003

You can purchase it on line but, you'll buy it through a dealer. Honda doesn't directly sell warranties to consumers. There are quite a few sites to get prices from, I'd make sure (if you're determined to get one) that you get an actual Honda warranty.

FYI it's often said never bet against yourself. I suppose you know about Honda's terrific reputation for reliability. Unless it's a used vehicle, I'd avoid it. It won't cover mainentance items unless they break prior to the service period. And, it won't cover regular wear items i.e. brakes, hoses, filters, rotors etc.

I read the label on the radiator awhile back it said to make sure the antifreeze was changed at 150,000 miles.

Then again, interest rates are low and you can just roll it into the cost of the vehicle and not worry about a thing.

I wouldn't buy one. I didn't buy one.

ateixeira · July 2003

Right off the bat, Honda gives you roadside assistance. I think they outsource it, I forget the name of the company right now, but my dad has that service and it costs $71 per year.

So on a 7 year warranty, you're getting a $497 value right there. My cousin got a 7/75,000 warranty on his Odyssey with $0 deductible for $655.

Folks, that $158 for the extra 4 years of coverage, or $39.50 per year. Is that too much? Do you really think you won't spend $40 per year in repairs, even when the car is seven years old? Have you seen parts/service prices lately? $92 for an hour of labor to reset a tiny check engine light (free for my cousin, of course).

The thing is, extended warranties on Hondas are *dirt* cheap, precisely because they are reliable.

So, if you look at it that way, it's totally worth it. Then consider the extra perks - I bet your dealer roll out the red carpet for a VIP customer (loaners during repairs). Resale improves if you sell before 7 years is up. All repairs are done by dealers with OE parts.

See what I mean?

-juice

william21 · July 2003

So basically the Hondawarranty.com site is a dealer willing to sell the warranty at a discounted price on the internet. So I guess there is a base price for the warranty which goes to Honda and added on is how much the dealer wants to make on the deal. I assume the warranty is backed by Honda and you can go to any Honda dealer in the country. I guess what makes me nervous is giving my credit card number to a dealer 1,000 miles away, not knowing if the dealer is for real. Has anyone bought or know of anyone that has bought from the Hondawarranty.com site?

Thanks for the advice.

icvci · July 2003

When we bought our CR-V our dealer actually used hondawarranty.com to show us that they were giving us a good price on the warranty. I still didn't want it.

If you don't want to use hondawarranty.com, ask your dealer if he'll match the price.

Juice, how many times could I have used roadside assistance in my 10 years of driving Honda vehicles? None. No flats, no lockouts no problems. You're right though, it will help resale. I'd rather keep my money in my pocket. It's just me.

icvci · July 2003

http://www.autonews.com/news.cms?newsId=5846

Made in China.

icvci · July 2003

Pretty cool.

http://www.autonews.com/news.cms?newsId=5805

ateixeira · July 2003

In a perfect world you don't need it, sure, but we're all human.

I've been locked out once and ran out of gas another time (10.9 gallons in that Miata!). My wife is a magnet for flats, though she's had none recently, knock on wood.

I guess what you're paying for, also, is piece of mind. If I was single, handy, had a set of tools in the trunk, I wouldn't pay for it either.

Two kids and a wife that probably would be fearful of breaking a nail with the lug wrench and it's mandatory! :-)

-juice

kyfdx · July 2003

You should consider the worth of the deal on the warranty alone. I assume you already have a roadside assistance plan? I do..its with AAA. Would I want to drop it for another plan? No, because it has other value than just the roadside assistance. Also, on the 5yr/75K warranty, it doesn't take effect until the original 3yr/36K warranty is up. So, if you are driving 12K per year, you are paying for just 2 years of warranty, and you are paying for it now, when you don't get to start using it for 3 years.
This doesn't mean its a bad deal, just that the cost is a lot closer to $300-400 per year, not $40 per year. The rest is just playing with numbers.

regards,
kyfdx

2001 - 2006 Honda CR-Vs

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