I posted this question over on the "problems and solutions" board because I though it got the most traffic, but I realize this is the place to post it, so sorry for the x-post.
I've got a 2003 CRV LX. Overall, I really love this car.
I would like to stiffen up the ride a little bit. By this I mean it rolls a bit more than I like in corners. I don't want to lower it, just stiffen it. I am not a suspension expert, most of what I know is from mountain bikes, but I would think I am looking at new springs and shocks? Or will just new shocks do the trick? Any links to relavent sites would be great. I am by no means an agressive or fast driver, but on windy country roads, or at highway speeds I would like some more control.
* Plus One rims and tires * fatter sway bars * better shocks * stiffer springs
Tires have the biggest effect, 70 series have soft sidewalls that flex a lot. 16" rims allow for 60 series tires than will improve the handling and steering feel.
Sway bars are also pretty cheap, and will reduce the lean somewhat. Don't expect miracles in a tall vehicle, but they help.
Shocks and springs get a bit costly, if you'd go that far I'd consider a differnt type of vehicle, maybe a Legacy GT or MazdaSpeed 6 wagon.
Road noise inconsistencies: keep in mind different tires are available, I'd suspect the BF Goodrich tires are a quieter than the Desert Duelers.
Different trannies can also make RPMs vary at certain speeds.
Then of course the person listening has different standards - a Miata driver may find it quiet, but a Lexus driver might think it makes a big racket!
One's opinion on that is very subjective. Why don't you just go try one out and see for yourself? I think it also depends on what vehicle you drive now. If you have a smooth riding full size luxury car, you'll think it's crap. But if you currently drive an H1, you'll love it.
If we were talking about creating a racer, I'd take Juice's list verbatim. But we're not. I doubt very much that stiffer sidewalls are going to make a significant difference driving winding roads.
Besides, the downsides to going plus one are numerous. You'll end up with a slightly stiffer ride (bumpy) and more unsprung weight. Not to mention the fact that messing with rims can impact ABS functions. When Honda bumped up the tires and rims on the 2005 models, they also increased the size of the brakes. Going plus one is a relatively minor jump, but it's something to consider.
I think stiffer sway bars are the answer for your type of driving. With the 1st gen CR-V, you could swap out the rear bar with one from an Integra GSR. Dunno if you can do the same with the current CR-V and RSX.
If the 16" rims are alloy, they might not be any heavier, especially if the 15" rims were steel to begin with.
I did a Plus Ones and the total weight of the wheel and tires was the same. And my rims weren't particularly expensive, not are they ultra-light or forged.
But you should take weight into consideration. Tire Rack has that information. I'm not sure about the weight of the stock 15" steelies or alloys, maybe someone here has weighed them?
ABS should be fine as long as you change all 4 tires, preferably 5 (spare too).
I think the brakes got bigger because they could, i.e. bigger brakes fit under a 16" rim vs. the old 15" rim.
Tires are the only thing that touch the road, no other change will matter more. The Duelers are rated 180BB IIRC, B for traction and B for temperature resistance.
Go to a 215/60R16 or 225/60R16 tire and you'll find H-rated tire (stock is S) and you will also find a selection of tires with A or even AA traction ratings and A for heat resistance as well. Basically your choices will include much better tires for pavement.
I swapped on my Forester, I had identical 205/70R15 Desert Duelers, and went to 215/60R16 Nitto NT460, and was much happier in the twisties. Today I'd probably opt for Falken Ziex 512s, a top H-rated tire in the same size.
How much were your rims, and where should I look to get them. I don't need anything fancy (cheap is good), but I am thinking of buying an extra set anyway so I can leave the snow tires on the steel rims. How do I know what size rim to get, and are all 5 bolt patterns the same?
The ABS thing is a non-issue sinse I don't have it, but my understanding of Plus One is that I get a bigger rim with a lower profile tire so the outer diameter is the same. Is this correct?
Sway bars sound like the best Idea I've heard, but I don't see ones for a CRV. Where should I look for these?
I am having a problem with my 2004 CR-V LX manual transmission that I hope someone can help me with.
It is experiencing two symptoms: 1. The idle behavior is erratic. 2. The car can hesitants when passing through 2200-2300 RPMs.
Both of these problems are intermittant and the dealer is relucant to do any about them. The most likely explaination is a defective throttle sensor, with a zero or soft spot.
The only way the problem can do reliably reproduced is placing it is neutral and accelerating to ~2900 RPMs and then releasing as slowly as possible the accelerator. The RPMs gradually reduce until (~50 of the time) around 2500 RPMs at which time the RPMs drop suddently 200 to 500 RPMs.
My primary problem is that the dealer says that this is normal and that any idle condition from 700-3000 RPMs is possible and normal during a cold start.
What do you think? Is this normal operation? Is this there a problem and what is it? Thanks for any help.
I may only judge/compare cars I drove for a long time: Tires road noise of CR-V is more pronounced than my other car Volvo, but wind noise in CR-V is less than Volvo. Volvo has Mishelin tires and CR-V Duelers. To compare we need to have a common denominator :-).
Honestly, I have no idea. The only other possibility I can think of would be fuel filters. I had an old Subaru with a semi-clogged filter in the fuel lines. The problems started intermittently, but gradually got worse. It wasn't restricted to any particular RPMs, but, in the early stages, it happened more when I was cruising at speed, rather than puttering around town Which, IMO, is not all the way you'd expect.
I'd check the plugs, plug wires, and then the fuel filter and fuel pump.
If it's mild it could be something as simple as water in the fuel lines from condensation. That will certainly make it stumble. A can of DryGas might help.
Again, the primary complaint seems to be body roll, not lack of traction or even general handling capability. That' why I'd go with sway bars.
Finding them will require a bit of digging. Posters here at Edmunds tend to be more interested in buying, leasing, general functionality, comparison with other vehicles, and other new car stuff. I think Edmunds is trying to cater to the enthusiasts a bit more with the recent change to "Inside Line".
In the meantime, there are other sites with a greater focus on modifications and vehicle support. A couple of searches should be all you need to find them.
I searched Jackson Racing's web site, and they don't list the CR-V specifically. Doesn't mean they don't have anything that fits, but they just don't target CR-V owners.
Same with the Forester, you can drop in anything from the WRX STi.
The catch? If you're the first noone can answer the question but you. Maybe offer to be a vendor's guinea pig if they give you a discount and promise to take it back if it does not fit.
To be honest you might want to wait and see how the production RDX turns out. It might be more of what you want out of the box (with a warranty).
I've been quiet for some time on this board, but I will voice a gripe about my 2002 CRV. There is practically no return to center, so I don't have much feel as to what the car is doing on the road. I am forced to keep focused on the road at all times. Since there is so little return to center I have to steer into a turn the steer out of it. The Caster is not adjustable so I don't believe there can be any improvement. I've had numerous alignments with no satisfaction. Like everything else about the V, but driving is the most important aspect of vehicle satisfaction, and I don't like the way my CRV steers. Any comments, yeah I know one is always supposed to keep his eye on the road. rockycow
I don't notice that so much while driving on winding roads, or down the interstate.. But, on the street grid, making a turn around the corner, I experience exactly the same thing.. Usually not a problem, but a little disconcerting if you are really stepping on the gas.. I don't think it has anything to do with alignment.. I think it is an unintentional consequence of the way the car is designed..
I also have an '02, and noticed the same thing on my '98, though to a lesser extent..
Sorry that this reply may not directly correspond to your query, but it is me that needs assistance. I badly need a Maintenance Manual for my CRV-Honda (1997), i got it recently and was used. Kindly, where can i buy the manual (electronic or hardcopy). I already have the Owner,s manual but does not seem to help me much when i need to order parts from abroad. Thank you.
Head over to Honda CRV 'problems and solutions' Board and you can commiserate with all the other CRV owners with the 'pull to the right' problem. It appears the '05 CRVs are a problem to more than just a few people. People are starting to lodge their complaints on the National Highway Safety Traffic Administration (NHSTA) website also. I checked the other vehicle Boards to see if this pull to the right (pttr) problem is as prevelant with other vehicles as with Honda CRVs and it does not appear to be. Sorry I can't be of more help in solving the problem. I'm looking for a solution myself. Steve
If you do a Google search on "maintenance manual honda crv" (without the quotation marks) you'll find a number of sources that will provide the manuals. Good luck!
The "problem" I described is just that the car/steering wheel doesn't self-center after 90 degree turns.. Actually, both of my CRVs tracked straight and true since day one..
And, if your car is only pulling during accelerator application.. that is the very definition of "torque steer". If you had a PTTR problem, it would veer when you were coasting, as well...
I'm glad to hear that you are not one of the chosen few to suffer from pttr. I just took a look over at the CRV 'problems and solutions' Board. Someone posted what appears to be a solution to the pttr problem which only occurs upon acceleration due to faulty torque as the result of unevenly matched pair shafts. I'm not a mechanic and most of it is Greek to me.
You seem to insinuate that as long as torque steering is the reason for a vehicle going to the right, it would not be considered pttr?
I encourage you and all others that have chimed in on this pttr, veering, drifting or whatever other characterization of the problem you may want to use to read bmgpe's post. The explanation is quite detailed and will hopefully be examined by someone from Honda that will act on the info. Steve
Most roads are crowned so the natural tendency is for all vehicles to pull to the right slightly. Make sure you evaluate yours on a level street, perhaps the middle lane of a 3-lane road that is flat and straight.
If you have a better possible solution, don't be shy...please post. Also, if you could, have at least one of Honda's 'ton of engineers on staff' get on this Board and let me know which Honda dealer to take my CRV to in order to cure the problem. Steve
My question is whether any of your 'many years of auto related experience' translate to any solution. Also, once again, is it within your power to have one of Honda's engineers that actually has years of experience in solving these types of problems get on this Board and contribute in a positive and helpful manner in order to put this problem behind all those with the problem that posted on this subject and all those lurking in the shadows that have not yet posted. Thanks for help. Steve
Maybe others should as well. 255 post seems like enough to me too.
I think I summed it up pretty well in three sentences.
Six responses down from your post:
"Rotating the tires and realignment eliminated about 70-80% of my PTTR problem. At 18K miles I replaced those horrible Dueler tires with some Michelin tires from Costco and now the V tracks perfectly down the highway with zero pull to either side."
I'm interested in a CR-V, but get nervous when I read about its limited off-road capability. Is it that limited, or is it being compared to true off-road vehicles, like jeeps? Is the Forester better? Any experiences you can pass on to help me decide?
I think most of these vehicles (CRV, Escape, Tucson) have some "limited" offroad capability, but the keyword is "limited". All of these vehicles have AWD systems that were mostly designed to handle inclement weather on the road, and also some dirt roads, etc. None of them have the ability to lock into 4-lo which is usually needed for the majority of offroading adventures. I would recommend looking at the Jeep Liberty or the Nissan Xterra if you have any desire to take your vehicle offroad. I know some Escape owners who have taken their Escapes offroad and have had no major issues, but these vehicles were really not designed for that purpose.
For serious off road (mud, sand, river crossing, etc), you should get a "true" 4WD, not one of the limited 4WD or AWD models. The CR-V will do fine on unimproved roads; I used mine to go to Chaco Canyon in NM, which was very muddy and washboard. No problems. So for light off road, any of the small UTEs wil all wheel drive will do OK.
If you plan to go to the desert or wilderness and will DEPEND on locking hubs/limited slip differentials, and low range, get a truck or SUV designed for off road. Jeep is probably the best known...
Which is the better ute will depend on what type of terrain you'll cover. There's a big difference between a bog slogger and rock hopper. As mentioned several times, none of these small cross-overs are *good* for off-road use. But some are better at certain types of terrain than others.
Comments
I've got a 2003 CRV LX. Overall, I really love this car.
I would like to stiffen up the ride a little bit. By this I mean it rolls a bit more than I like in corners. I don't want to lower it, just stiffen it. I am not a suspension expert, most of what I know is from mountain bikes, but I would think I am looking at new springs and shocks? Or will just new shocks do the trick? Any links to relavent sites would be great. I am by no means an agressive or fast driver, but on windy country roads, or at highway speeds I would like some more control.
Thanks
Jeff
* Plus One rims and tires
* fatter sway bars
* better shocks
* stiffer springs
Tires have the biggest effect, 70 series have soft sidewalls that flex a lot. 16" rims allow for 60 series tires than will improve the handling and steering feel.
Sway bars are also pretty cheap, and will reduce the lean somewhat. Don't expect miracles in a tall vehicle, but they help.
Shocks and springs get a bit costly, if you'd go that far I'd consider a differnt type of vehicle, maybe a Legacy GT or MazdaSpeed 6 wagon.
Road noise inconsistencies: keep in mind different tires are available, I'd suspect the BF Goodrich tires are a quieter than the Desert Duelers.
Different trannies can also make RPMs vary at certain speeds.
Then of course the person listening has different standards - a Miata driver may find it quiet, but a Lexus driver might think it makes a big racket!
-juice
Besides, the downsides to going plus one are numerous. You'll end up with a slightly stiffer ride (bumpy) and more unsprung weight. Not to mention the fact that messing with rims can impact ABS functions. When Honda bumped up the tires and rims on the 2005 models, they also increased the size of the brakes. Going plus one is a relatively minor jump, but it's something to consider.
I think stiffer sway bars are the answer for your type of driving. With the 1st gen CR-V, you could swap out the rear bar with one from an Integra GSR. Dunno if you can do the same with the current CR-V and RSX.
If the 16" rims are alloy, they might not be any heavier, especially if the 15" rims were steel to begin with.
I did a Plus Ones and the total weight of the wheel and tires was the same. And my rims weren't particularly expensive, not are they ultra-light or forged.
But you should take weight into consideration. Tire Rack has that information. I'm not sure about the weight of the stock 15" steelies or alloys, maybe someone here has weighed them?
ABS should be fine as long as you change all 4 tires, preferably 5 (spare too).
I think the brakes got bigger because they could, i.e. bigger brakes fit under a 16" rim vs. the old 15" rim.
Tires are the only thing that touch the road, no other change will matter more. The Duelers are rated 180BB IIRC, B for traction and B for temperature resistance.
Go to a 215/60R16 or 225/60R16 tire and you'll find H-rated tire (stock is S) and you will also find a selection of tires with A or even AA traction ratings and A for heat resistance as well. Basically your choices will include much better tires for pavement.
I swapped on my Forester, I had identical 205/70R15 Desert Duelers, and went to 215/60R16 Nitto NT460, and was much happier in the twisties. Today I'd probably opt for Falken Ziex 512s, a top H-rated tire in the same size.
-juice
The ABS thing is a non-issue sinse I don't have it, but my understanding of Plus One is that I get a bigger rim with a lower profile tire so the outer diameter is the same. Is this correct?
Sway bars sound like the best Idea I've heard, but I don't see ones for a CRV. Where should I look for these?
Thanks
Jeff
I bought tires of course, the set came mounted and balance right to my door, I just bolted them on with the lug nuts also included.
Check the specials Tire Rack and Discount Tire are having. Another option is lightly used rims from other Hondas, just check that the offsets match.
I sold my 15"s for $100, so really the 4 rims cost me $300 - $100 = $200. Not bad. I needed new tires anyway.
Your best resource is other CR-V owners, particularly ones that have made some changes. But they seem to be few and far between.
Maybe check with aftermarket Honda vendors? They'll know what fitments apply for sway bars, certainly. Places like Jackson Racing.
Sways are fairly cheap and easy to install. Expect to pay $80-120 or so. And they're just a bolt-on mod, nothing complex.
-juice
It is experiencing two symptoms:
1. The idle behavior is erratic.
2. The car can hesitants when passing through 2200-2300 RPMs.
Both of these problems are intermittant and the dealer is relucant to do any about them. The most likely explaination is a defective throttle sensor, with a zero or soft spot.
The only way the problem can do reliably reproduced is placing it is neutral and accelerating to ~2900 RPMs and then releasing as slowly as possible the accelerator. The RPMs gradually reduce until (~50 of the time) around 2500 RPMs at which time the RPMs drop suddently 200 to 500 RPMs.
My primary problem is that the dealer says that this is normal and that any idle condition from 700-3000 RPMs is possible and normal during a cold start.
What do you think? Is this normal operation? Is this there a problem and what is it? Thanks for any help.
Tires road noise of CR-V is more pronounced than my other car Volvo, but wind noise in CR-V is less than Volvo. Volvo has Mishelin tires and CR-V Duelers. To compare we need to have a common denominator :-).
I'd check the plugs, plug wires, and then the fuel filter and fuel pump.
If it's mild it could be something as simple as water in the fuel lines from condensation. That will certainly make it stumble. A can of DryGas might help.
-juice
Finding them will require a bit of digging. Posters here at Edmunds tend to be more interested in buying, leasing, general functionality, comparison with other vehicles, and other new car stuff. I think Edmunds is trying to cater to the enthusiasts a bit more with the recent change to "Inside Line".
In the meantime, there are other sites with a greater focus on modifications and vehicle support. A couple of searches should be all you need to find them.
-juice
That's the way it worked with the 1st gen CR-V. They used sway bars from the Integra.
The catch? If you're the first noone can answer the question but you. Maybe offer to be a vendor's guinea pig if they give you a discount and promise to take it back if it does not fit.
To be honest you might want to wait and see how the production RDX turns out. It might be more of what you want out of the box (with a warranty).
-juice
They sell a wagon version of the TSX in Europe, too bad they don't bring that here. Could be fun.
-juice
But is that safe? Too thick and it'll oversteer or maybe damage the end links. That's a little risky.
Anyone know the stock thickness? I bet it's around 13-16mm. You could probably go 18-21mm and be OK.
-juice
Any comments, yeah I know one is always supposed to keep his eye on the road.
rockycow
I also have an '02, and noticed the same thing on my '98, though to a lesser extent..
Does that help? Didn't think so.... sorry
regards,
kyfdx
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I just can't seem to get it to pull to the right, torque steer or have trouble with the steering not returning to center.
It doesn't squeek or rattle?
I'll keep looking and listening I guess...
-juice
Baptist
Kampala, Uganda (East Africa)
Try a hard takeoff on a 5 speed SHO Taurus and it'll give you whole new meaning as to torque steer!
Head over to Honda CRV 'problems and solutions' Board and you can commiserate with all the other CRV owners with the 'pull to the right' problem. It appears the '05 CRVs are a problem to more than just a few people. People are starting to lodge their complaints on the National Highway Safety Traffic Administration (NHSTA) website also. I checked the other vehicle Boards to see if this pull to the right (pttr) problem is as prevelant with other vehicles as with Honda CRVs and it does not appear to be. Sorry I can't be of more help in solving the problem. I'm looking for a solution myself. Steve
tidester, host
The "problem" I described is just that the car/steering wheel doesn't self-center after 90 degree turns.. Actually, both of my CRVs tracked straight and true since day one..
And, if your car is only pulling during accelerator application.. that is the very definition of "torque steer". If you had a PTTR problem, it would veer when you were coasting, as well...
regards,
kyfdx
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Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
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I'm glad to hear that you are not one of the chosen few to suffer from pttr. I just took a look over at the CRV 'problems and solutions' Board. Someone posted what appears to be a solution to the pttr problem which only occurs upon acceleration due to faulty torque as the result of unevenly matched pair shafts. I'm not a mechanic and most of it is Greek to me.
You seem to insinuate that as long as torque steering is the reason for a vehicle going to the right, it would not be considered pttr?
I encourage you and all others that have chimed in on this pttr, veering, drifting or whatever other characterization of the problem you may want to use to read bmgpe's post. The explanation is quite detailed and will hopefully be examined by someone from Honda that will act on the info. Steve
Most roads are crowned so the natural tendency is for all vehicles to pull to the right slightly. Make sure you evaluate yours on a level street, perhaps the middle lane of a 3-lane road that is flat and straight.
-juice
bmgpe, "Honda CR-V Owners: Problems & Solutions" #2537, 13 Mar 2005 1:34 pm
Steve, Host
In any event, it does make sense and who knows? He could be on to something.
Or maybe not...Honda has a ton of engineers on staff. In any event, it's something to consider.
If you have a better possible solution, don't be shy...please post. Also, if you could, have at least one of Honda's 'ton of engineers on staff' get on this Board and let me know which Honda dealer to take my CRV to in order to cure the problem. Steve
I'm confident your problem can and will be solved.
My question is whether any of your 'many years of auto related experience' translate to any solution. Also, once again, is it within your power to have one of Honda's engineers that actually has years of experience in solving these types of problems get on this Board and contribute in a positive and helpful manner in order to put this problem behind all those with the problem that posted on this subject and all those lurking in the shadows that have not yet posted. Thanks for help. Steve
Why not try a different dealer?
Find a competent dealer who can do a proper alignment. If that doesn't work start moving the tires around.
varmint, "Honda CR-V Owners: Problems & Solutions" #2549, 14 Mar 2005 2:08 pm
:-)
I think I summed it up pretty well in three sentences.
Six responses down from your post:
"Rotating the tires and realignment eliminated about 70-80% of my PTTR problem. At 18K miles I replaced those horrible Dueler tires with some Michelin tires from Costco and now the V tracks perfectly down the highway with zero pull to either side."
Nissan just put the VQ engine in there and addressed my main concern with the old one - the V6 was wheezy.
-juice
If you plan to go to the desert or wilderness and will DEPEND on locking hubs/limited slip differentials, and low range, get a truck or SUV designed for off road. Jeep is probably the best known...
Which is the better ute will depend on what type of terrain you'll cover. There's a big difference between a bog slogger and rock hopper. As mentioned several times, none of these small cross-overs are *good* for off-road use. But some are better at certain types of terrain than others.