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Chevrolet Aveo Engine Problems

theflyguytheflyguy Posts: 3
edited April 2014 in Chevrolet
While driving home from work yesterday, I heard a knocking noise coming from my engine. I was just pulling into my parking lot and shut it down. Found no oil on the dipstick. Had it towed to the dealer, appears front crankshaft seal failed. Did I mention its a 2007 Aveo5 with just 11k on it. Dealer will not replace engine, they are going to repace the crankshaft, and bearings.
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Comments

  • I Have a '07 Aveo with 7500 miles I have changed the oil twice since i bought it and at the second time i noticed some oil had been leaking from the filter seal. So when i put on the new filter i made sure to tighten it a lil extra. that was at around 4000 miles. this past week i noticed some smoke coming from the hood and it was oil leaking again and dripping on the manifold pipe. and it ran for about 5 minutes yesterday parked in one place and when i backed up there was a puddle. i rechecked the filter and its tight. Ive been changing my own oil for 12 years and never had a problem with a filter leaking. Has anyone else had this problem? When i changed the oil the first time i had to use a pair of channel locks to loosen the factory installed filter thats was rediculus but is it nesisary?
  • I've had this problem on other vehicles caused by the rubber gasket from the old filter sticking to the engine block. Then you can't get a good seal. You said how hard it was to remove the original filter. Maybe the old gasket is stuck to the block.
  • flaaveoflaaveo Posts: 161
    I change my own oil and filter as well. Always have on every car/truck I ever owned! That first time I changed my filter I had to bang a long screwdriver through the filter and twist for 45 mins to get the damn thing off!! Good to know I am not the only one with that problem. It was on that tight. Personally, if I had this kind of leak, I would go to your dealer and find out if the area where the filter comes in contact with the block is straight and even. MAYBE when you changed it the first time you accidently made it uneven, since you had a hard time getting it off. I assume it is the same tiny engine as my 2006?
    It is under warranty...might as well find out if you damaged it by accident, or if there is a factory problem. Maybe the engine block wasn't cast perfect and that first filter was on so tight to cover up their own mistake! Not that they will admit to it. BUT you can get a good look at the area and see for yourself. I assume you did check the oil drain plug of course? That has to be TIGHT,and I have been told or read in my owners manual that there is some kind of 'sleeve' in there that has to be replaced, but not till like 50k miles or something like that. Maybe you pulled out this sleeve and the plug is the cause of the leak? Let us know.
  • flaaveoflaaveo Posts: 161
    Well I'll stir the pot here. I just changed my oil and filter...used Mobil 1 5W-30 Synthetic and a Fram filter. Cost me $28. Got the oil on sale,by luck! ONLY $5.50 a quart!. Mine takes 4.5 quarts...even though the manual says it is suppose to take UNDER 4 quarts even with the filter changed to. Anyway. I do all city driving as you know, and had 1,950 miles on it between the last oil change and this one,also 4.5 months. Do you all go by mileage,time,or a combonation of both? Since I never get on the highway, it is considered 'severe driving' by the owners manual. So it says 3 months or 3,000 miles. Well it was over 4 months, but well UNDER 3,000 miles. So I never know if I am wasting money by changing it so much, especially with synthetic oil, or if as I always say..'it is cheap insurance to change it frequently to protect the engine'.I know oil builds up acids and carbon deposits in the oil when you drive. Thus the reason you have to change it. The cleaner the oil, the better the condition the engine stays in. So I was at 4.5 months...but only 1,950 miles. And synthetic oil is suppose to last MUCH longer between changes. Since it doesn't leak any oil,and doesn't burn any oil...I am wondering if I am being TO careful?? What is everyone else doing? :confuse:
  • randydriverrandydriver Posts: 262
    I think you are being a wee bit overcautious....I change mine at about 5000-7500....and the oil looks okey.
  • barbdrbarbdr Posts: 1
    I had this issue as well; apparently it must be an oil filter from the dealership, because it has a gasket that needs to be changed each time. I bought mine new, and just took it in with an oil leak issue, and had previously had the oil changed at an oil changing facility, and because they didn’t use the correct filter it developed a leak.
  • flaaveoflaaveo Posts: 161
    Sorry. But I didnt mention anything about an oil leak. I know a gasket comes off with every filter. I have never had a gasket NOT come off. I just always do my own oil changes...that way i know what is in my engine. But the factory filter was put on my some super strong robot. It took me hours to get the first filter off. I was just asking about peoples oil change routine/time.
  • flaaveoflaaveo Posts: 161
    So....did you get it fixed and is it working now? Or has more happened? Is it a manual or automatic transmission car? Did you have the oil changed just before that happened? Maybe someone didn't do the job right? And all the oil leaked out and caused the seal to fail? Or they didn't even put any oil in...wouldn't be the first time that has happened to someone. Would that cause that to happen?
  • junker1junker1 Posts: 1
    2004 now with 42000 miles on it. This started with about 32000 miles on the car. Radley Chevrolet replaced the top end and the valves per the factory. 1 hour after leaving its back with the same problem and error code. now they replace the catalytic converter.
    months go by and then wammy its back again. now they say the code was caused by a blown fuse. a week or 2 later , Hello there we are back once again. The same error code again. This time they keep it for a week before they decide Ohh can we give you a rental vehicle ? This is 4pm on a friday night. it was more trouble than it was worth. BAM last night less than a week later it has started bucking but with no error code as of yet and it is a weekend.

    what a piece of crap ! ! ! ! ! !
    OH believe me I have much harsher words to say.
  • theflyguytheflyguy Posts: 3
    After 3 weeks in the shop, the car has so far preformed ok. It seems that the oil pump failed per the mechanic at the dealership, when it did so it made enough metal that the seal was cut. Reason for the long delay in the dealership was first they replaced the crankshaft and bearings, that did not fix the problem, as the head and cams got trashed with oil starvation. So they replaced the head, cams, etc. Funny thing or not so funny, when I inquired about it being cheaper to install a new long block, they advised could not get one, this for a car thats been out 4 or 5 years. go figure. Oh its a manual trans, I forgot you had asked. Anyway do not trust it, going to dump it before warranty expires.Oh here,s the biggy, the idiot light never came on when it lost oil pressure and started knocking.
  • randydriverrandydriver Posts: 262
    The idiot like didnt come on.....doesnt it have an oil pressure gage?
  • theflyguytheflyguy Posts: 3
    Does not have a pressure guage on the Aveo5. Still running fine since repairs, speaks well for the dealership. I am a long time Chevy guy, still going to dump it and go more mainstream. Funny thing is I commute back and forth between Seattle and Northern Idaho, driving 75mph it gets about 32mpg. While it was in the shop I had a Malibu loaner. Drove it back and forth twice, guess what nice smooth ride 32 mpg at 75. No jarring, swaying in the wind, horrible whistling noise when driving in windy conditions. Might be my next car.
  • joesaveojoesaveo Posts: 1
    does anyone know how to set the timing on my 04 aveo 1.6
    i see the marks on the gears how do you put them when puting on the belt :confuse:
  • flaaveoflaaveo Posts: 161
    Seems I am back to MY same problem. I can tell everyone else when to change their oil,but not my own. While i am following the 'severe oil use changing' schedule, I still don't know if I am wasting my money or not!
    I have only put on 1,575 miles on the car in 4 months. When I changed it, I used 100% synthetic oil and high quality filter. Do I change it now,even though the oil is suppose to last for nearly 7,000 miles. Or go by the amount of time, and that says to change it at 3 months, since the oil is creating acids and other by products,and that is the reason to change the oil in the first place.

    Obviously I have a lot of miles to go with the synthetic oil,but it is now at 4 months,going on 5. Should I change it or get the use out of the synthetic oil and use it for at least a few more thousand miles? BUT it will take many more months to rack up a few more thousand miles
    up to maybe 8 months. Is that to long in time to wait..or is the oil protecting the engine from the acid and by products? I just cant figure out which to go by, time or mileage..IF I use synthetic oil...and I do and will continue to when I change it. Any input? :confuse:
  • ilaveoilaveo Posts: 26
    I've never used synthetic oil so I can't really tell you how it will hold up. I use a 5K interval on our cars because that seems to be about when the oil starts to look, feel, and smell different. If I were you, after the recommended time interval I would be sure to check the oil carefully after every tankful of gas and watch for changes in the look, feel and smell of the oil. I doubt that you need that oil change yet, but you should keep a close eye on it now since you don't know how long you can go.
  • poncho167poncho167 Posts: 1,178
    Those factory filters are always put on super tight for some reason. If I am not mistaken you have pretty good access to your filter, where I have worked on other new vehicles and couldn't get a good grip to break it loose and ended up pounding a screw driver through it in order to get enough leverage. If you have changed the oil for the first time than you should be ready to switch over to synthetic. If you use the severe driving schedule maintenance, I would probably stick to 5,000 miles or so, but I may last longer. I would check the oil manufactures website and maybe ask your local dealer. A lot of new cars, mainly GM, have that oil monitoring system that lets you know when it needs to be changed. Those systems with just regular oil usually last at least 7,000 miles before the light comes on. The choice is up to you. I have never used synthetic and prefer regular dino oil. When you say high quality filter do you mean AC/Delco? I would definitely not recommend Fram because they are not built as good, and the internals tend to deteriorate leading to possible clogged filter. I have seen some ratings and for Fram they are not good.
  • flaaveoflaaveo Posts: 161
    Yes. I use Fram. I always have. For over 25 years of changing my own oil and filters. And the synthetic gives me 1-2 mpg more than regular oil. So do the Bosch Plus 4 spark plugs. Or I would be back at 15mpg all the time! I had to get the FIRST factory filter off by punching a screwdriver threw it to get it off it was on so tight! The robot that day must have been on super strong when it installed it.!!

    I wish I had the monitoring system,but our little Aveos dont have that expensive option in them. Guess I'll go another 1,000 miles...and then change it..Maybe like 2 times a years. I drive so little this time of year,till October, I will be lucky if I put 500 miles on it by October.
    So I will just change the oil and filter at the end of next month,and go six months from there.

    Just wondering. Has anyone had their GM dealer change their oil and filter? I have a coupon to get a free oil and filter change and body lube...what they can lube is beyond me..but ,has anyone had this done,did they do a good job? Did you end up with oil leaks? How long did it take to get it done?
    I WAS going to do it yesterday...but after waiting over an hour for them to open up,I had another hour to go..I got bored and gave up! So I left. But has anyone gone through a GM oil change,and what was your outcome?
  • nordy200nordy200 Posts: 14
    For your mileage I would recommend only a one a year oil change. One thing I would strongly recommend however is to take the car out for a long drive once in a while so that the oil gets good and hot and boils out the accumulated moisture in the sump. That water can form some bad compounds in the oil if it sticks around, even in small amounts.
    On filter changing-be sure to coat the gasket with clean engine oil before you twist the new filter on. It is generally recommended to only hand tighten a new filter, or to turn the filter about 1/4 to 1/2 turn after it first contacts the mounting base.
  • poncho167poncho167 Posts: 1,178
    Good advise on the oil filter. I'm sure flaaveo knows about coating the gasket, but I have known people who didn't with near disastrous results. Yes 1/4-1/2 is about it after you hand tightened to the max.
  • poncho167poncho167 Posts: 1,178
    Not wanting to start an argument with you, but AC/Delco and Wix brand filters are the best quality money can buy. I am glad you haven't had any problems with the Frams, but the internal valve bodies and materials are inferior to the others. I wish I still had the test results that I read about last year which tested 5 or 6 brands.

    On a related issue, K&N filters are bad for your engine. I have used a K&N in my truck for over 10-years, and also have one in my Honda dirt bike, but tests have shown that they don't trap as much dirt/sand as a standard air filter, but they do provide slightly better air flow. I will likely go with a standard paper filter in my next car. Also Split Fire spark plugs are a waste of money. I used to use them years ago but didn't see any difference whats-so-ever other than less money in my pocket.
  • flaaveoflaaveo Posts: 161
    I FINALLY got around to changing my oil today. I just hit 5,000 miles! Only took 15 months:) Anyway, I got lucky and found a sale on full Synthetic oil,Valvoline. Buy one get one free! I couldn't believe it! So it was only $10.00 for the oil..barely more than for an all conventional oil change. And I got a AC Delco Filter. Can you believe the 'salesman' at Advance Auto actually said NOT to put that filter into a Chevy! It's made for Chevys!!

    And it was actually cheaper than my usual Fram. So I went with the factory recommended brand. So it came to only $14.00. Usually my oil and filter changes run over $30.
    This buy one get one free sale is great! I should go stock up on it.

    I am still at only like 1,700 miles between oil changes,but it has now been over 5 months, I think, since I changed it and the oil is JUST starting to turn brown. So what the heck. I'm changing it. And I think I will stick with 3 months/3,000 miles rule.

    But that Royal Purple oil I used last,has lasted and stayed CLEAR till just last week. So it has done a great job...for over $7.00 a bottle it should! But it has been so hot here this summer,and I do ALL city driving,but I go for a long haul once in a while to try and see if I can get some mileage out of this engine. I actually got 21 mpg last week! I almost fell over!! But I think I just added my numbers wrong. But with gas now at 'only' $2.68 at my last fill up on Friday. It said I got 21 mpg...but it was a different station. So...I take it with a grain of salt. And this Valvoline full Synthetic is new to me. I usually use Castrol or Royal Purple...but this stuff was such an unreal sale,I couldnt pass it up. I know it isn't 'bad' oil. I just never used it before. Well..time to go for a drive and see if I tightened everything correctly:) :)
  • csandstecsandste Posts: 1,866
    If you're changing oil at 3000 intervals just about any SM oil will do fine. In fact, if you're changing at 5000 mile intervals just about any oil will do fine. I think RP is a bit over priced but that's a lot of money to be deep sixing at three grand. I take it the Aveo doesn't include an OLM like American Chevys.

    Most Delco filters are now made by Champion Labs. Much better than Fram (what isn't?), but essentially the same as a SuperTech filter for two bucks and change, although filtering medium might be a bit more with the Delcos. Champions have that nylon birdcage like core that should really help with oil flow.
  • flaaveoflaaveo Posts: 161
    Boy I'm lost...what is 'SM' oil...'RP' oil...and 'OLM' I am totally lost in this posting. Sorry. And I managed to stock up on 100% synthetic Valvoline oil for only $2.99 a quart,while it was on sale! That is the same price as most plain oils. So I wont be paying more than anyone else for the next 1-2 years....depending on how long I keep it.
  • blufz1blufz1 Posts: 2,045
    The miles are more important than the months. I would change synthetic oil once per year regardless of miles.
  • flaaveoflaaveo Posts: 161
    Once a year!!! My god! If you let oil go that long unchanged, it would be a thick black goo! And just be ruining the engine. I think you read something wrong. I would never let it go that long. I think I said I have 'stockpiled' synthetic oil, since it was on sale for less than plain Dino type oil,so now I have enough FOR a years worth of oil changes. I change it every 3 months to 6 months at the most.
    I wish I could change it once a year like I HEAR you can if you have synthetic oil and drive as little as I do. BUT oil produces acids and 'goes bad' if it just sits in the engine over time. Whether it is Dino oil or Synthetic, it needs to be changed, because it does produces acids and other by products,when it is running or just sitting,that is why you HAVE to change the oil,it is suppose to 'go bad',it picks up the combustion byproducts that the engine makes as it runs.

    So,I go for 3-6 months. Knowing it is synthetic,I know I CAN wait for 6 months...even though I only might put 1,500 miles on it in that time. :shades:
  • blufz1blufz1 Posts: 2,045
    My Honda manual says 7500 miles or 1 year. Pay your money and take your choice. Why don't you ask Shipo?
  • poncho167poncho167 Posts: 1,178
    You might think about every four months with the synthetic. Twice a year for low mileage is not out of the question according to some auto writers.
  • After reading all the messages on this site, I was wondering what is the final opinion on which is better - regular oil or synthetic oil. And what is the mileage for a change?
  • flaaveoflaaveo Posts: 161
    Synthetic is the best you can buy. It holds up to the heat and the wear in the engine much better than Dino oil. That is why it costs so much more.It gets you better mileage, and makes your engine last longer. It is slicker than Dino oil,so it produces less wear in the engine,so it last longer. I just cant get an answer to how long it last and when to change it. It is suppose to last 2-5 times longer.

    But others say to still replace it at 3,000 miles. BUT when I only put 5,000 miles on my car in 15 months! I cant leave it in there for nearly a year. But if you can afford it,go synthetic.Its kind of like buying 'Pepsi', instead of a generic 'cola drink'. You know the difference. And which would you rather have? I know I want Pepsi! :)
  • I have been using synthetic oils in my cars for over ten years.I have used OE filters in most cases. I do work on the three Chevy Aveo's that my employer owns for our company use,They all get synthetic oils.The original filters were Very tightly installed!I run them for 8k between changes.The fuel economy has improved on all cars when they passed the 2-3k point. none have oil consumption issues(12k to 34k as of 10/1/07).#3387 filters are what is required,I wouldn't use another spec because I think there are thread pitch differences that may cause filters to loosen as the car is driven.These cars also seem to like new air filters! the fuel mileage seems to be most affected by the replacement interval of the air filter! I am not a filter salesman.I just observe and record info and maintenance intervals.The Aveo has no zerk fittings on its suspension parts.The only lube points for the dealer to attend to are hinges and latches.The ONE bad mechanical thing about these cars is the fact they have an interference engine design.So,timing belts should be changed at the recomended interval and NOT LATER. I think the auto trans cars should get it changed at 50k. I also dont recomend that tires be replaced with less than a "H" speed rated tire.I drove one with a cheaper non speed rated tire, This car is dangerous to drive without the better tire. the car is very UNSTABLE on cheap,soft sidewall tires!
  • I have also had the same problem with an 04 Aveo that I purchased used.(I also own an 07 and have not had this problem to date.) I have used Mobile 1 and Fram, and both have leaked at the gasket on the 04. The last oil change I have installed AC/Delco filters on both cars, I am hoping this will solve the oil leak issue on the 04.
  • flaaveoflaaveo Posts: 161
    I have found that you have to put the filter on VERY tight no matter the brand. The factory filter is on SO tight when you remove it on the very first oil change, you need arms made of solid steel to get it off! After that,just be sure to oil the gasket,and put the new one on tight,not AS tight as the factory filter. That is just CRAZY tight! But very tight. I have not had a leak ever,on this or any car/truck in my life. I guess luck or I take my time and put them on straight and tight??? But this car seems to like a VERY tight filter for some reason. :confuse:
  • The other day I went outto my car to go to work and it would not start. I took the starter of and had it tested, not the problem. It is not the battery either. Has anyone had this problem and do you know what is wrong? The fuel pump is the next part to check out. Please help.
  • Hi,

    Mine had a blown CPU last Feb.. That is/ was the only reason my wouldn't start. Did you have a cold night or cold wet night. That seems to blow them according to my dealer.

    Ron
  • CPU? It was cold.
  • From what I was told by my local dealer, there were 15000 cases in Canada along in Feb. last year. Mine is an 06 svm. I hope for your case it's not the cpu. They told me 3 months to get one, depending on low parts supply thanks to Daewoo. It really took about a week. I think they pulled one from another because I saw a new one next to it in the shop.

    Ron
  • pbupbu Posts: 1
    My 06 Aveo did the same thing last January or February when it got really cold (-10F to -20F). The dealer replaced a control module and everything has been fine so far.
  • get the haynes guide at advanved or auto zone the specs are in there . Or go to the dealer and buy the repair manual
  • hammillhammill Posts: 10
    I have an 06 Aveo sedan 5speed with 22,000 miles on it this past thursday i got in the parking ramp leaving work at 6:30 pm and it was about 0 out. Started her up and it made a please don't start me sound ,then when waiting for it to warm up it started chugging and the rpm gauge was all over as the idle was jumping.had no power as i tried to drive so i pulled over and shut it off after a series of starting and shuting off it smoothed out and i got to the gas station and put in some heet.thought the gas line was froze but with the ethanol in the fuel here in Minnesota i thought that wouldn't happen. Anyway it started fine the next morning the engine light shut off and now all is fine.Should i go get it looked at or asume it was a frozen fuel line?By the way my mileage never went down since which also makes me think its ok.
  • poncho167poncho167 Posts: 1,178
    I would at least call or stop by the dealer and let them know.
  • I see there are a lot of folks that got shafted by Chevy . This is my last of 6 chevys I also have a 04 Malibu Maxx which gets as good mileage as the Aveo . First it was the Motor , it ate a seal which trashed the lifters then the pistons then the rods .Then it was the front end crunching and wobbling Rotors then it was the brakes , then a engine light Oxy . sensor replaced ,but the biggest thing is the drifting at 50-65 MPH on the 4 lane . I thought it was tire separation Nope new tires didn't help . This car is a very unstable platform and wind makes it even worse . I had the front end aligned no help . The service writer noticed the swaying but could not find anything wrong and said that all the aveos are like that . WOW that dosnt make it right , it means that there are a lot of dangerous Aveo out there Now to find a Lawyer
  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,490
    I am 53, retired and average 12K miles a year on a car. I consider myself a conservative driver with no moving violations... ever.

    Like you, I just replaced a 05 Aveo Hatchback LT (had every available option) with a Nissan Altima 2.5 with all the options...I had the same suspension experience as you, and could not get more than 20K miles out of the front tires before replacing. And, it was time for the 2nd replacment moonroof, as the 1st replacement had ceased to tilt after 10 months of useage....I did get 2 years out of the original moonroof. The Aveo was garaged when not in use, and was well cared for...

    The ironic thing....The best in-town mileage on the Aveo was 25, 31 Hwy. I have not been on a long trip in the Nissan yet, but around town the mpg is 27...much more room, comfort, etc. and 2 mpg better, all on regular gas. Go figure...

    The local Chevy dealer could double as the Dale Ernhart fan club, and doesn't inspire confidence in any way.

    Like you, I am done with Chevy AND GM.
  • Just picked up a new 07 aveo LT off the local chevy lot about a month ago. Really like the car, but I am starting to see some things that concern me. I live in NC, and it is about normal for winter here. Pretty cold in the morning but nothing to get excited about. Anway, some mornings when I turn the key the engine sputters and sounds like "oh no, did you have to try and start me up". It settles off but yet something doesn't sound or seem right with it.

    Also, the dummy lights that come on when you start the car...they all cut off after a few seconds (like normal), but the parking brake light and the battery light stay illuminated. This lasts for about 2-3 minutes or so, then they fade out. The parking brake is not engaged. Not sure what to think....taking my car to the dealer tomorrow.

    If this is a sign of things to come, well, I guess I will have to see.
  • poncho167poncho167 Posts: 1,178
    What are you going to do when your Nissan goes bad, buy another one? My old neighbors Sentra lost its engine when its timing belt broke but he didn't mention that he would never buy another Nissan.
  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,490
    I can see why you would ask that question, based upon the limited comments in the earlier posting. Like you suggest in your question, does 1 bad customer experience make all of a manufacturer's products inferior?

    Of course it doesn't. We all know that every manufacturer makes lemons...its a fact.

    I have attempted to buy American products since I began buying cars in the late 60's. My 1st car was a 69 bare bones Chevy Nova, 6 cylinder 2-speed automatic...it didn't even have carpeting (instead, it had a rubber mat). It got great gas mileage, but required a new water pump every 10K miles...not much of an issue, as they were cheap, and replacement took about 1 or 2 hours on a Saturday afternoon. Of course, there wasn't much to break, so it was pretty reliable.

    After that, I bought a 71 Nova (again, pretty reliable, but also bare bones...this time, I had a 350 CID and a 3-speed automatic).

    This is where my experience with GM started taking a turn for the worse. My next sequence of cars, in succession (with major problems listed).....

    1973 Pontiac Catalina - Warped front rotors, detached dashboard from firewall. many rattles.

    1975 Pontiac Astre-(Pontiac's version of the Chevy Vega) - Severe engine problems. Anyone who had a Vega is well aware of GM's failed attempt on this aluminum engine design.

    1976 Ford Courrier Pickup (Made by Mazda). Base truck, 90K miles with no problems at all.

    1978 Chrysler Lebarron- 110K miles, replaced front brake calipers at 70K miles.

    1980 Plymouth Voyager - Transmission died at 77K miles, Chrysler replaced with a factory rebuilt unit at no charge.

    1982 S-10 Blazer - Multiple rear brake problems, never repaired correctly. Automatic transmission leaked from day one, and eventually seized at 35K miles. Front floorboards would fill with water after heavy rain, but only at random times. Leaking problem was never resolved. Rear tailgate/glass rattled incessantly. When looking up the definition of "lemon" in the dictionary, a picture of this vehicle should be visable.

    1984 Dodge Pickup- Base truck, destroyed by a drunk driver (in another vehicle) while parked in my driveway.

    1985 Dodge 600 - Required new fuel injectors at 70K miles.

    1986 Dodge 600 Convertible - Replaced hydraulic motor that lowered top after 2000 miles...no other problems.

    1990 Plymouth Acclaim - Didn't have the car long before I encountered another vehicle headed the wrong way in my lane. Airbag worked great!

    1991 Chrysler Cirrus - No problems other than an incessant squeak in the dash that I never could locate.

    1993 Plymouth Voyager - A great vehicle, only had to replace a defective spark plug wire right after purchase.

    1996 Jeep Cherokee- Transmission started having shifting problems at 35K miles. Repaired correctly under warranty. Seat heater replaced at 40K miles.

    1998 Chevrolet Metro -Reliable car, but A/C worked poor at best. Would not cool on a really hot day, but 2 GM service depts. claimed it was working according to specs (one tech agreed that it still didn't cool the car sufficiently).

    2000 Chrysler T & C - Washer fluid bottle replaced under warranty.

    2000 Chrysler Concorde- #6 cylinder pumped oil from day one, using a quart of oil every 600 miles. Chrysler refused to repair, saying this was acceptable oil useage. This attitude turned me off from Chrysler.

    2002 VW Beetle - Daughter's car...no problems.

    2004 Toyota Corolla- Other daughter's car.Rock solid car, no problems.

    2005 Mini Cooper - Temp sending unit leaked at 24 K miles, repaired under warranty.

    2005 Aveo - 2 bad Moonroofs, excessive front tire wear, car interior parts began coming loose at 25K miles...lots of rattles.

    2007 BMW Z4- No problems.

    2008 Nissan Altima. New car.

    The point here is that I have never had a GM automobile get 50K miles without a significant problem. Overall, I was happy with Chrysler until 2000, when they refused to fix an oil burning issue on the Concorde.

    At the same time, I had several friends running Hondas, Toyotas and other imports without significant problems, putting significant miles on these cars.

    As to your neighbor's Sentra...what was the mileage when the belt broke?

    Last of all, my specific opinion of the Aveo is that, if you buy the basic model and all you want is basic transportation, you will probably be satisfied overall, but a little unhappy with te MPG. If you did like I did, and buy a loaded LT Aveo, my guess is that you will be somewhat less than happy with it, given you keep it for a few years.
  • poncho167poncho167 Posts: 1,178
    For the most part a cars success reliability wise is owner related. Brake issues such as warped rotors doesn't sound like a manufacture defect to me and rarely is. If it was that way after buying soon after driving home than yes that is not good but the majority of warped rotors are created during service work when taking off the wheels and then over-tightning the lug nuts. This was especially common on Japanese cars that for years and now use lighter thinner rotors and one good torque of the lugnuts bent those rotors. Now all the American cars for the most part use these same cheap rotors that generally when they wear out you can't even spin them once to resurface because there is just not enough metal left.

    My neighbors Sentra timing belt went at 114,000 miles or so. I wouldn't doubt that this car probably didn't have the proper maintenance thus the chain probably wasn't serviced properly, don't know for sure. A lot of consumers are unaware of how to maintain a car and rarely open an owners manual. My experiences are just the opposite of yours with little to no problems from the American cars and trucks I buy but on the other hand I have known many people who bought Japanese and they have the kind of issues you have had with your American brand cars.

    Toyota dealer service is famous for telling customers that their warranty or non-warranty repair is just wear and tear thus leading to a false consumer perception and positive continued Toyota corporation profit. Toyota put the engine sludge problem blame on the owners when it was an engine design flaw. When being threatened with lawsuits they quickly responded and serviced those engines and extended the warranty. Toyota's recent rush to be # 1 is starting to hurt their reputation with poor quality cars and more warranty claims. The Camry a few years ago was considered the most reliable car in its class but now it is what, # 3 last I looked. Recalls are at an industry high for Toyota the last few years with Chrysler close behind. American cars (not every model) have been there for years as far a reliability but the perception hasn't caught up to that.

    The Japanese did the American manufactures a favor in getting them to build a car better because if they didn't they would nolonger be in business. So yes they have helped out the consumer to get better vehicles to drive. JD Powers continually has American cars (Buick) at the top of the most trouble free longterm which is an evaluation based on 3-years, 45,000 miles of ownership. The lazy UAW helped in hurting the American car industry by not caring what they were doing and for jokes sake hanging beer/soda cans and other things on strings in hard to reach places to rattle away while the cars are being driven thus annoying drivers. I bet you never heard of that one but yes they did all kinds of terrible things intentionally back in the 1960's and 70's and who knows longer.

    I worked for many auto dealers during my lifetime with ending that career choice back in the 1980's selling cars for first Mazda, Nissan, and Chevrolet. I also worked as a porter before that at another Nissan dealership, Chevrolet, and Toyota. I don't agree with the reliability rating system because what exactly does that mean? All cars are going to start so that may mean that maybe the seatbelt didn't latch properly. The headlight burnt out faster. The freon leaked out of its compressor? What I saw was that the Japanese cars, which they are known for having better fit and finish in the past had that while working around them. The paint jobs and detail were just better, thats it. Not if the engine would start and last that is mostly a mith created by smart marketing and people believe it. To me it felt like night and day going from Nissan to Chevrolet. The Nissans and Toyota's had the better fit and finish but the Chevrolets seemed much safer/solid because they weighed more and had thicker steel. I felt more comfortable in one of those cars. Body shops had/have a term for metal replacement. When replacing a door or fender they either use OEM or what they call [non-permissible content removed] parts. What that means is that the metal is either thicker OEM or the cheap Japanese thin metal. Todays American cars use the thinner metal to save costs and don't have the heavy metal like they did from the mid 1990's and before so they are no different then their Japanese neighbor.

    Companies like Consumer Reports have done a dis-service when it comes to cars because of the way that they accumulate information. Are you aware that their statistics are based only on payed subscribers who answer their surveys. Who are these people, what are their demographics, why did they reply or decide not to reply? Its just not legitimate information from a company that admitted in a big apology last years scandal that it outsourced the child safety seat test in which 8-11 seats were reported to be subpar which was not the case and was corrected. I will consider their information when it comes to lawnmowers, paint, appliances, etc., but will go to automotive sources including magazines, Wards and JD Power to get real testing and consumer information when it comes to cars/trucks.

    Now you can see why I would question someone on their go Japanese not American preferences and I am not even going to bring up the lost jobs that have occured because of people who chose not to support American companies. We can go there if you wish but for now I will leave it at that.
  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,490
    We are in agreement on several issues you mentioned. Ratings and surveys are only as good as their responses, which are always biased to some degree.

    Like you, I don't have a lot of trust in Consumer's Reports, as I have always felt that they had their own agenda. As an example, a couple of years ago I purchased a plasma TV with the cablecard option, eliminating the need for a cable box receiver (an option touted as a "plus" by CU). After having difficulty getting it to work, I did quite a bit of research on the net, finding rampant problems with cablecards. When I contacted CU to get their take on it, they had no idea of any problems with this option.

    That spoke volumes to me...either they were being untruthful, or their "extensive" testing wasn't that extensive after all.

    And, yes, for years I tried to buy American when it came to big ticket items. But, like I said earlier, after having several friends driving imports and not having the issues that I had, it opened my eyes. And, while I am certainly no fan of the UAW, you can't lay all the blame on them. I have heard stories from family/friends that were union members that would make your blood boil, and I can remember being at trade shows in places like Chicago and not being able to plug in an electric cord, as that was a "UNION" responsibility. ..as if I wasn't capable of doing the task myself.

    However, the manufacturing sector has also made its contributions.

    For example, a recent article in USA Today spoke about GM's icon (On-Star) will stop working in many GM products made as recently as some 2005 models, due to the wireless networks discontinuing analog cell service in the near future. I don't know about you, but I have had digital service since the late 1990's. This was a concious decision by GM to save a few pennies at the customer's expense. They are not alone in penny pinching...How about Ford and the brake lite sending unit/cruise control related fires? For years, Ford knew that having constant power to the sending unit could cause a fire if there was hydraulic fluid leakage. Also, remember the Pinto gas tank issue, or the GM truck gas tank issue in the 80's and early 90's.

    And, the biggest screwing of all?

    GM's attempt to convert a gasoline engine design to a cheap diesel during the oil embargo of the early 70's, even though they had the intelligence and manpower to supply a reliable engine. We are still suffering from this ill-fated travesty, and to this day have difficulty finding a diesel powered American automobile.

    Believe me, there is enough blame to go around in Detroit for all to share.

    Last of all, exactly what is American today, when you give it some thought....???

    My new Nissan was make in Canton, Mississippi. My BMW Z4 coupe was make in Spartanburg, SC. My Aveo was made in Korea. All are serviced and sold by local dealers, who are primarily American citizens (I assume they are, anyway)...Just about any electronic device made today comes from China, regardless if it has HP, Apple or Motorola on the label.

    Arrogance, by both the UAW and the manufacturers got the American auto sector into the fix it finds itself today. Yes, I also remember the early days of Japanese imports. The Honda Civic was more like a go-cart. The early small truck imports had single wall truck beds, and it was rare to see one that didn't have dents due to cargo shifting around in the bed.

    But that was 40 years ago, and in my opinion, GM still hasn't "gotten" it. Until the management of GM starts thinking in a more consumer oriented way, and actually accepts that the imports are "true"competition, I fear that GM will continue to loose market share. Funny thing, though...as Toyota closes in on GM, it appears that they are incorporating some of GM's philosophy, which I expect will start showing up in their build quality...time will tell....

    Ford appears to be making an attempt at becoming more adept, and Chrysler has gone private, with the ex-head of Home Depot at the helm (what were they thinking???).

    SUV and light truck sales have kept Detroit going over the last few years. I wonder what will happen in the next 10, 20 years????
  • poncho167poncho167 Posts: 1,178
    One thing the Japanese companies did good was force the American companies to put better products on the road. I am talking about craftsmanship-fit and finish. The truck thing really hurt the American manufactures. Sure they have always had the best trucks but at the expense of mostly average cars with a few being very good as well. No manufacture domestic or import has a model in every catagory that is best in class, thats what makes it such a competitive market nowadays.

    I agreed with the Japanese prime minister some 15-20 years ago when he toured the auto plants and said the UAW workers were lazy. It was about time someone said something to get them to wake up and realize it is not fun and games anymore. I know what you mean by a union contractors having to plug a cord in and how much they overcharge for their services. A friends neighbor is a union window installer and he makes six figures doing that. I can also see why Toyota goes out-of-their-way to avoid states that have unions and to seek part-time employees to save on benefits. That may morally wrong, but it is a smart business decision no matter how bad it appears. American manufactures have been forced to seek parts from China, Japan, and Mexico because everyone else is doing it to stay competitive price wise. Have you seen the domestic content of a Camry recently, I haven't but read in an article that it has dipped below 60%. Toyota as a whole including their other devisions brings their domestic content to below 60% as well while GM is still floating at 75% overall but who knows how long that will last.
  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,490
    The only way I can see the domestic automotive industry surviving is to finally begin giving the customer what they want. The big 3 continuously say that they are simply giving the consumer what they want...ie, big gas guzzling SUV's, etc. They say small, fuel efficient cars don't sell very well.

    Well, why should they? Try to get a smaller car with lots of options on it and see what you find. Try to find electric seats or a nav system on a small domestic auto. For years, the domestic producers intentionally made smaller cars sub-standard to encourage big car sales. Henry Ford II famously said that "Small cars mean small profits.".

    The industry says there isn't a demand for diesel...Right...Go to your nearest VW dealer and ask him how happy he is that VW delayed the sale of diesel Jettas until the 09 model year, to be released this fall. I recently read on Edmunds that one VW dealer says over 33% of new car buying prospects at his dealership come there looking for diesel power.

    Will the domestics finally catch on? I am not optimistic. In the case of potentially unemployed auto workers, I really hope I am wrong. I guess we'll see....
  • poncho167poncho167 Posts: 1,178
    A lot of consumers who are buying the diesels aren't aware of the added costs.
    Sure they generally get better mileage than a comparative gas engine (except for the Mercedes sourced antique low-tech Jeep diesel engines) but they cost more and the price of diesel is now higher as well. How long will it take in fuel savings to pay off the higher price of the diesel equipt car? The diesel fuel thing the last time I looked was 70 cents more per gallon. When there is more demand for diesel the diesel fuel will go higher and higher because that is the American way sad to say. I believe this whole thing especially the recent surge in diesel fuel is all politically motivated and someone is getting money under the table.
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