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GM News, New Models and Market Share

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  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    The 727, my personal favorite, is also derived largely from the 707 fuselage. But I basically agree with what you are saying. The Impala may conjure memorable old images to me, but GM would be smarter focusing on the Malibu name. While not great, they did seem to resurrect it from the Rentabu image a decade ago. Impala still unfortunately has that image to most buyers today. Personally though, I think I would have brought the new car out with a totally new name and image skipping both monickers. Honestly, I don't think the Chevy "SS" classic designation means a lot to the younger buyers either. Car buffs always wax about a big V8 RWD car, but they don't tend to sell very well any more. Buyers that want a V8 seem to gravitate to trucks and SUV's. Heck, even the Mustang and Camaro V8's seem to be taking a back seat to 6 cylinder models these days (and I'm not talking about fleet cars either).
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    I'll be the first to admit that, other than flying inside one, I'm pretty ignorant on which planes begat later model planes... I just want one that gets me there, first, and on time, second. Anything else is icing on the cake.

    You make a good point on car names. Perhaps it was a missed opportunity for Chevrolet to not coin new names across the board, or at least, transition the old model names to new. A sharp marketing firm coud have made a lot of "hay" for GM doing that.

    It's irrelevant now... The time has come and gone.

    Whether SS matters now, I can't say, but I DO feel comfortable saying that it certainly doesn't mean the same to a SS buyer today as it did to a late 1960's Chevelle or Malibu buyer of the same age at time of purchase.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    Please elaborate on the "Way to go, Washington..." comment.

    I don't know the details, but I thought GM determined the "cut list", not the government.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    I was around 6 years old when my dad brought this very same model car home on a test drive, but it was bright red. In those days, you could keep the car for a couple of days before returning it, but I'm sure that was only for thise seriously interested in buying a car.

    Anyway, we had it for a weekend, and my brother and I begged and begged him to get it. However, he was far too practical minded, and would have no part of owning a convertible. He ended up buying a white 4-door Pontiac Catilina.... And had an aftermarket A/C installed that would only run for 30 minutes tops before freezing up..

    Ahhh, the "good old days"....
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,856
    I could be wrong, but I thought GM fought the dealer cuts, but D.C. said it was 'part of the deal'. They had to cut so many. Back in the day, the Chevrolet dealer was in every town, and was generally the strongest dealer in town too.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    That was part of the problem. They had so many they were competing with their own brands, especially Pontiac and Buick.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I wish they would offer a civilian version of the Caprice! I would get one in an instant!
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Oh oh! If Ed only spoke for Wilbur, he couldn't capitalize on it! If he tried, people would only think Wilbur was nuts. Forget Studebaker - he'd be the new spokesperson for Cocoa Puffs!
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Heck, the Impala has a good reputation for me because my Grandpop had one! I remember Grandpop's cars as being very good cars.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    Here's the scoop on GM and Chrysler dealer reductions.

    Note Paragraph 4 under the section "What SIGTARP Found", that gives insight on the process both companies used.

    http://www.sigtarp.gov/Audit%20Reports/Factors%20Affecting%20the%20Decisions%20o- f%20General%20Motors%20and%20Chrysler%20to%20Reduce%20Their%20Dealership%20Netwo- rks%207_19_2010.pdf
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,022
    I remember the dealer group I bought my Intrepid from took a pre-emptive strike and dumped Chrysler! This particular showroom used to sell Chevies, Isuzus, and Dodges. Well, Isuzu pretty much took care of themselves. Then, for whatever reason, they dumped Chevy and added Chrysler/Jeep to fill the void. They always tended to sell more Dodges than Chevies anyway, which I found a bit odd.

    Anyway, around the time that the automakers were reorganizing and shedding dealers, I got an email from the dealer saying that they were dropping Chrysler, because its future seemed too uncertain considering how many times it changed ownership. That, and Chrysler didn't seem very committed to making fuel-efficient, small cars.

    To this day, that dealership is still sitting, along Route 301 in Upper Marlboro, MD, completely empty. In addition to my Intrepid, my Dad bought his used '03 Regal there. My uncle bought a used '94 GMC 3/4 ton and a new '97 Silverado 1/2-ton there. And, way back in 1986, my Mom bought a year-end clearance '86 Monte Carlo from them.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,856
    edited September 2012
    Whatever the process was...to take it away, then give it back...while better than taking it away forever...that dealer lost longtime employees and customers and for what? I remember reading in the paper at the time the franchise was taken away, he had sold more new Chevrolets the year before than any other dealer in the county.

    WTF?
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    If what you say is true about te dealer having the highest sales volume of Chevy sales of ANY other dealer in the country, then I agree with your assessment... WTF?

    Surely there must be more to the story, but what that might be, I couldn't say...
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    There was a strech along Grant Avenue in NE Philly that boasted a Chevrolet, VW, Kia, and Nissan dealer before the "Great Recession." I was just past there last Tuesday night and the whole stretch is now an abandoned forlorn wasteland.

    I heard on ABC news this morning that the ACTUAL unemployment rate right now is 19.6%. How's THAT for an economy? :cry:
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    edited September 2012
    For what its worth, I suspect there's a number of ways dealerships can "claim" to have the highest volume.

    For example...

    http://www.paddockchevrolet.com/

    This dealership claims to be the sales leader for the last 9 years. Only one can be the leader ...
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Heck, for a brief time you could've even got the Impala as a pickup truck, i.e. the 1959-60 El Camino.

    True, but it's not that different with the Camry today. They have:

    Regular - Camry
    Green - Hybrid
    Long wheelbase - Avalon
    Wagon - Venza
    Long wheelbase wagon - Sienna
    Tall wagon - Highlander
    Deluxe - ES
    Deluxe Green - ES Hybrid
    Deluxe wagon - RX
    Deluxe Green wagon - RX hybrid

    What's old is new again.

    Main difference is they go more nowadays to disguise the origin of the platform.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,856
    edited September 2012
    Not exactly the same thing.

    By those standards, we could say that Chevelle lineup would qualify as a version of 'full-size Chevrolet' too.

    All those coupes, sedans, convertibles and wagons were on the same wheelbase and chassis. It was glorious to pick exactly what you wanted then. You never (and I mean never) saw an exact duplicate of a car. Now I see two duplicates parked next to each other on a dealer lot...and I mean total duplicate...down to the price and equipment on the window stickers.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Yeah, I recall a used car dealership that claimed to have a "mile of cars," but I think somebody overdubbed their TV commercial! :P
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,856
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    It would be interesting to know the ratio of special ordered vehicles to total sales in 1965 as compared to today..

    I remember, in the early years of Mustangs, one could specify unique colors, etc. There was a fellow that lived near me back in 1965 that special ordered a blue metallic paint job with a cream colored wrinkle-paint rooftop on a Mustang, along with special hood stripes.

    It's the ONLY Mustang I have ever seen in that combination.

    My guess is that it's just too expensive nowadays to do such things, with so much competition now. In 1965, the Big 3 was the only competition...
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'm sure the bean counters get their way and standardization of models saves $$$. Same for any brand.

    Heck, some brands (Dodge, Toyota come to mind) typically has a HUGE options lists, but no matter, you can only get cars in certain ways for each region. The distributors standardize by region even when the manufacturers do not.

    You may have to special order that uncommon combo of color and options.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    Yep, you have to love the conspiracy rants below the article in the comments section, especially comments on the closing selection "rules", since they we're determined by GM and Chrysler, not the government.

    Some folks have to see political motives a nd conspiracies in EVERYTHING.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,408
    I know what'll fix that, tax breaks for the 1%. It's been working for the past 30 years, right? This is worse than the early 80s no matter what the sullen old greybeards claim.

    A couple years ago, the local Dodge dealer moved to a new lot, and his old building is still abandoned. I suspect the property might eventually be redeveloped, but still looks terrible sitting there, even has the Dodge sign still standing.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    I wish they would offer a civilian version of the Caprice! I would get one in an instant!

    Wait 3 years and you can get your very own - of course it'll have a little wear on it.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    It's called the SS. It shouldn't be, but it is.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,671
    edited September 2012
    >rate right now is 19.6%.

    Sounds about right for Western Ohio. Despite the GM auto plants where they WERE salvaged in Toledo and Cleveland area and make good photo ops, the rest of the state lost lots of manufacturing jobs. Many older people take retirement early or find a disability to use to get SSI. With another 4 years, I predict unemployment/ underemployment of 50% here.

    Talked earlier about the selection of which dealers to close. In re the C dealers, a longtime family store here on main road was closed. But another store on lesser traveled roads 1.5 miles away was kept open. It had changed owners many times. In the media Rumors were that political history of the owners was involved in choosing for closure if they were of the then current administration's stripes.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    It's called the SS. It shouldn't be, but it is.

    That's only if he wants the short WB with the 6.0 V-8.

    Otherwise lemko will have to wait for a Caprice coming off of police duty.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,856
    Re.: Special-order rates today, and then:

    I absolutely believe that special-ordering was done many multiple times over back in the '60's and '70's, compared to now.

    I ordered one new car, an '85 Celebrity Eurosport 2-door. I've had ten new Chevys since and only one was bought right off the dealer lot. The others, I knew just what I wanted but they were able to obtain it from another dealer.

    You've got to remember, there were many, many, many times more permutations of cars then...many more exterior colors, many more interior colors, huge lists of individual options, many more powertrain choices and options...today, most everything is in "Group A" or "Group B" and you're forced to take things you don't want or need just to get something else (sigh).
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    Well, there will always be rumors...

    I suspect that, in the grand scheme of things, being able to close non-performing (I'll let each person define that term for themselves) dealerships was one of the few bright spots in the whole bailout process for GM and Chrysler. It allowed the companies to bypass a long, drawn out legal process to reduce the dealership volume. Once a good thing to have tons of dealerships, someone finally realized that too many dealerships "cheapens" the brand.

    In the early 1990's, when Harley Davidson was taking off, something similar happened. HD was well aware of the smaller dealerships that had stuck with HD during the bad times, but the company wanted to position itself differently in the market, placing large, well stocked well run dealerships over mom and pop operations.

    Along with 2 other associates, I investigated purchasing the existing dealership in the city where I live, which was definitely mom and pop level, located in a bad section of town. The owner had pretty much gotten the "word" fom HD that if he wasn't willing to put up the $$$ for a modern, better located building, then HD was going to allow another dealership to open in his market area, which in essence, would put him out of business. A lot of dealerships got the same word, and many did open new stores.

    In the end, we were out-bid even before the bidding had begun. Another small group of investors were much more motivated to get the dealership, and they deservedly obtained it.

    Today, the business sits along an Interstate hwy, and I suspect sells more bikes in its worst calendar month than the old dealership did in its best month ever.

    And, HD's image has improved dramatically as well... Nationwide.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,671
    >Well, there will always be rumors...

    More than rumors. Articles were written about the questionable process.

    These were auto dealerships, not motorcycle stores.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    I agree that "bundling" options makes it easier to construct product and gain sales revenues.

    On the special ordering thing, we live in a "gotta have it RIGHT NOW!" society, and I suspect many dealerships fear (rightfully so, IMO) that many would just go elsewhere if a suitable product wasn't on the lot. Indeed, that's exactly why the manufacturers set up the "info sharing network", so that if you want a blue car with orange interior, and it isn't avaliable at your dealer he might be able to locate it and obtain it for you within a couple of days from mother dealer.

    Personally, I've special ordered every car I've owned since 1985, with 2 exceptions. The trucks I've owned I have always found something suitable on a lot or through the dealer network.

    My cars are usually "optioned up", and I personally like the "anticipation" period of waiting to get the car. With a BMW, and perhaps other brands as well, one can track the order all the way from order entry to manufacture to delivery. When it comes, it's a bit like Christmas morning to me, adult style.

    The other benefit I get from waiting is that it allows me to read up on the owners manual, so I have a much better understanding of the total car when it arrives.

    I know this might seem silly to some, but it works for me.

    One last thing... I think it would be great if the Big 3 offered "factory delivery" like BMW does at it's Performance Center in SC.

    It's really a great way to get brand "hooks" into the customer...
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    "More than rumors..."

    Yet, if you bothered to read the link I posted a few comments back, it was Chrysler and GM who determined dealership closing criteria, not the government.

    If you have evidence to the contrary, please feel free to post it, and by evidence, I mean something substantiated, not some opinion piece from a local newspaper.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Except one problem. I still have one Chevrolet dealer sitting here on Route 9 (the main drag). And not a mile down the road sits a Caddy/Buick/GMC dealer owned by a different owner. Who thought this was a remotely intelligent idea, pitting one's own franchisees against each other with similar products? Near-identical, in the case of GMC vs. Chevy truck.

    I suppose it's an improvement. Before the restructuring/closing, the Chevy dealer was a Chevy/Caddy dealer, and the other dealer was Pontiac/Buick/GMC. Which meant even more overlap.

    And I bet this situation still happens in a bunch of places. You never see Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Subaru, Hyundai or Mazda dealers close enough to each other to be forced to compete with each other. You used to see it with Ford, but not anymore luckily. Dodge....hmmm, meh.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,856
    Geez, where do you live?

    In my town, Toyota and Mazda dealers are immediately next door to each other. Honda and Hyundai are in a town seven miles away, right next to each other.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,671
    Here's something that's not just a press piece with the administration's line:

    http://macsmind.com/wordpress/2009/05/is-the-obama-administration-shutting-down-- republican-owned-chrysler-dealerships/

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    BMW stands for Breaks More Wallets.

    GMC stands for *** Mans Chevrolet. :)
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    You're changing the subject. :) Do you have two Toyota dealers right down the street from each other? Two Mazda dealers on the same block? Of course not. They're not that stupid. Do you think Toyota would ever, in a million years, allow someone to open a Toyota dealership a mile away from a location where one of their other franchisees already has a Toyota dealer running? Never ever.

    GM on the other hand, on a regular basis, has different dealerships selling different brands of related or rebadged cars, in close proximity to each other, and competing with each other, driving prices down further than is really necessary. That's completely the fault of GM, and they stlll haven't fixed it (the contraction was SUPPOSED to force them to do so).

    In fairness Chrysler's got that problem too.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,856
    Honestly, I have never cross-shopped Chevrolet with Buick. Buick didn't have a car like the Cobalt or Cavalier or Beretta I've owned, or vans until the short-lived Terraza. They really didn't have anything like my '11 Malibu, either.

    The nearest Chevy dealer to me is Marhofer in Stow. I buy at Serpentini in Tallmadge, a few miles away from Stow, and the nearest Buick dealer is in Cuyahoga Falls, several miles from either Chevy dealer.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    http://www.freep.com/article/20120907/NEWS01/309070092/GM-s-Opel-operation-calle- d-top-threat-automaker-s-stability

    With europe in the shape its in, this won't be a short-term problem, either.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,856
    edited September 2012
    Chevrolet has had factory delivery at Bowling Green, for Corvettes, for years. I went on a tour of the plant once and visited the Corvette Museum next door, and that's where they do the factory deliveries. They have a theater-marquis-like sign out front that says, "Joe Blow picks up his Corvette today", and they'll have it prepped and roped off like at a car show or museum. There were probably ten there the afternoon I was there. Incidentally, my former Studebaker Lark Daytona Skytop was picked up at the South Bend plant by the original owner. (See my article in the column "Reminiscing", in the Feb. 2011 Hemmings Motor News.)
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Ever cross-shop Chevy and GMC? They're too similar not to, and most people do. Think the Impala won't be cross-shopped with Buicks? GM is shooting itself in the foot. Again.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    They probably should...except that's where they get Buicks from, and they've already shown they do NOT want to drop Buick. And turning Buick into a repository for high-trim rebadged Malibus and Impalas instead is a very boneheaded move.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    A topic we discussed recently, and an interesting read:

    http://www.enginelabs.com/engine-tech/cam-valvetrain/gen-v-rumors-whats-coming-i- n-the-next-generation-small-block/

    Aluminum block and DI even for truck applications.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,856
    You read 'county' as 'country'.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    edited September 2012
    That piece is a partisan hack job if here ever was one.

    Check out this link to your site...

    http://macsmind.com/wordpress/contributors/

    Couldnt help but notice the well-placed Romney contribution enticement...

    A further note, linked from your source article...

    http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/05/news-flash-car-dealers-are-republicans.ht- ml

    Note the conclusions at the end of the article. Your article's author looked at how many dealerships to arrive at his conclusion???

    The problem with the "theory" is that it punishes EVERYONE at the dealership, not just the owners.

    Now, if you want to believe only Republicans work in sales, service and offices at Republican-owned dealerships, by all means, go for it.

    I doubt many Democrats that lost their jobs at closed dealerships feel "warm and fuzzy" about it...
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    "county as country"...

    Oops!

    As Maxwell Smart might say, "missed it by THAT much".

    I think my point was still valid, though... There are lots of ways car dealers claim to be number one in sales, and they can do it based on how they determine the definition of "sales".

    And, I was aware of Corvette offering factory pickup. They even offered (and may still) a program in which you order your car, pay them some extra $$$, and spend a day at the plant "assembling" your car's engine.

    The point I was making is ... Why only Corvette?

    In Europe, it's fairly common to pick your car up at the factory, where the Manufacturer entertains the customer for the day. In SC, the buyer of any BMW, regardless where it's made, can pick it up at the Performance Center.

    It just seems like extras like that go a long way to establish brand loyalty.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Never ceases to amaze me how gullible people can be, especially in politics. Left or right wing, Dem or Repub, doesn't seem to matter. I wonder if we'd be better off if we eliminated parties and made everyone run as an independent?
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,408
    You're going to have to hang a lot of scum to do away with the lobbyist culture :shades:

    Dictatorship might be the best way after all...
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    I blame the advent of 24/7 news cable channels for much of our political "ignorance" nowadays.

    There's only so much news at any point in time, so all these stations started off filling up dead time with, at first, commentary and later on, opinion, followed up by a large dose of venom.

    If I could ask Ted Turner a single question, it would be "If you knew it would end up this way, would you ever have started CNN?"
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