Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
Options

GM News, New Models and Market Share

1521522524526527631

Comments

  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Which comes back to "What's the whole point behind GMC?"

    They sell not one unique thing.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    edited September 2012
    They had a really arrogant one (typical) over the summer that I recall:

    "Don't send a truck to do a GMC's job"...

    Leave those wussy freightliners and Macks' at home boys, that Sierra will tow that 18 wheeler full of appliances for you! :P
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    Check this commercial out on YouTube...

    http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=VKt-uV8Xnlw&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DVKt-uV8Xnl- w&gl=US

    About 2/3's into the clip...

    I think that's the gal from the TV show "Glee" singing Dinah Shore's old song...
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    Not seen that one.

    They had a whole series of ads like this one in the early '70's. I like the '72 Malibu in this ad too:

    http://www.mclellansautomotive.com/literature/items/chevrolet/f6353-chevrolet-19- 72-auto-memorabilia.php
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It's probably the most redundant division, more so than Buick.

    Acadia is a bit different than the Traverse. It was redundant with the Saturn Lamdba but Saturn is gone.

    The problem is the Sierra. That's a lot of volume to give up.

    When Chrysler closed Plymouth did lost a lot of Caravan sales. For whatever reason those buyers did not switch to Dodge, so it's not as simple as it seems.

    I think GMC could be spun as Chevy truck's more upscale cousin, but it would need some differentiation.
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    Your Daddy's Olsmobile.

    Not an actual ad - old Ray Steven's song that someone pasted several old ads to.

    On a different note - Daddy's Oldsmoblie Hal Ketchum shows you can write an amazing song if you start with a good title.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    My grandfather always used to prefer GMC trucks, but back in the old days they were better. Or, at least, GM's marketing led Granddad to believe so. :P

    At one time they used Pontiac V-8's and had their own unique V-6. And they had four headlights, which clearly meant a step up in prestige from Chevies, which only had two. :shades:

    My uncle tended to prefer GMC, because he didn't like the way C H E V R O L E T was spelled out real big across the rear, taking the whole tailgate. "G M C" was much more discrete. I don't think they've done that in years, though.

    Personally, I think a GMC Sierra is a nicer looking truck than the Silverado. I'd buy it over the Chevy based on that, if pricing was close enough.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Right now it costs money to run both GMC and Chevy, different manuals, marketing materials, body panels, etc. For what are esentially reskinned Chevy trucks. That's the issue. It's not like those GMC sales are free money. There's a lot of overhead involved.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    At 1:32, Caddy's Been a Long Time was a good one in hindsight, given that's when they really started their comeback.

    The Glee link should reach a lot of young buyers, problem is they're not very interested in cars! The recent Cruze ads with the Facebook status may appeal more to the 25 and under crowd.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Even if you had a magic button that would erase GMC without having to deal with labor contracts and plant shutdowns, they would still lose a ton of revenue.

    GMC outsells Buick and Cadillac combined. By a wide margin, actually. And trucks aren't cheap.

    GMC outsells Chrysler division. A quarter million sales so far this year.

    Even if GM could retain 80% of those buyers (unlikely) they would lose about 82,000 sales per year, at an average transaction of (guessing here, see footnote *) $30k or so, that's $2.5 BILLION dollars in revenue in a best-case scenario.

    different manuals, marketing materials, body panels, etc

    $2.5 billion worth every year? You think so?

    *

    Footnote: my estimate is way, way low. Truecar says $32,391 average transaction for GM. GMC sales are truck heavy and they don't have Sonics and Cruzes, so I bet it's more like $35-38k per transaction.

    And all that is assuming an 80% retention, which is wildly optimistic. Check this out:

    http://www.autoblog.com/2011/05/13/gm-failing-to-keep-hummer-pontiac-and-saturn-- buyers-in-the-fold/

    around 71 percent of Saturn owners traded their vehicle for another brand this year. Likewise, 70 percent of Pontiac drivers opted for a different make

    So they only retained 30% or so. Even if you double that, the loss of revenue would be devastating. About $6 billion loss in revenue in the US alone assuming $35k per transaction.

    No way could they survive without GMC.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    >After all, the title of the thread is "GM News, New Models and Market Share".... Not "GM Fanboy Comment Thread".

    And it's not "GM, What's Wrong With It, Past, Present, and Future." ;)

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    I found the article you linked to about Pontiac and Saturn owners moving to different brands somewhat lacking in information.

    It sure would have been nice to have seen some sort of complete breakdown of what brands they moved to, instead of the single reference about 35% of Saturn owners moving to Honda, Toyota or Ford.

    Where did the rest go?

    And, the article implies 71% of Saturn owners traded cars for another brand this year. I find it hard to believe 71% traded their vehicles, so I assume they meant 71% of those that actually traded this year, not 71% of total owners.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    More detail would be nice, if anyone else has a source.

    I just remember an analysis a couple of years after Plymouth was eliminated that showed they lost a lot of Caravan sales.

    Those were identical to the Dodge version, heck, even the NAME (!) was the same, and people didn't automatically switch to Dodge.

    Sierra is the cash cow here. I bet it would look something like this:

    45% Chevy
    35% Ford
    10% Dodge
    5% Toyota
    5% other

    + or - 5% for each brand.

    They'd still lose tons o' revenue.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    edited September 2012
    Here's an article on Pontiac owners...

    http://blog.polk.com/blog/blog-posts-by-bashar-cholagh/pontiac-ownerswhere-are-y- - ou-going-next

    Probably reasonable to assume Saturn owners followed suite in a similar fashion.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    The Plymouth van was the Voyager, BTW, not Caravan.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Whoops, it became the Chrysler Voyager.

    Sorry 'bout that.

    Either way, they were not able to sell the Plymouth under the Chrysler name, so the original point is valid.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    My wife had a 1990 Grand Voyager. Blue, with the bench middle seat (extended version) that had built-in child seats that folded down from the seat backs.

    Other than the transmission being replaced at 77K miles, it was relatively trouble-free. Chrysler even covered the transmission replacement. That act got them 2 more van sales, a 1995 and a 1999 T & C.

    I rented a Dodge van from Enterprise in July, and I can only say that minivans have indeed come a long, long way since that Grand Voyager we had.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Defections to import makes were nearly 31%

    Yikes.

    I don't think GMC would do that badly, but a lot of folks would get a Ford or Dodge.
  • maple2maple2 Member Posts: 177
    we have a guy who thought an Impala was a Buick,

    And the best part was his only complaint for what he believed was a "near luxury brand" was that he didnt like the plastics.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,928
    edited September 2012
    But doesn't GM/Chrysler/Dodge/Plymouth/GMC/Chevy and any other sub-names have a lot of typical experience losing market share, regardless of shutting down a brand or model name?

    I mean.... really, how many Caravan drivers really want another Caravan (The fact they couldn't get a Plymouth might not have anything to do with it).

    I know after my Dodge experience I had no interest in anything Chrysler was involved with, even if it was just a touch or sneeze of involvement. If they breathed the same air, I stayed away. You couldn't have given away a Benz during the "merger" years to me.

    If Chevy doesn't get all of the GMC truck customers to switch over, then that tells me they didn't really like their GMC truck and don't want another one.

    If a product is good, people will seek it out, regardless of its name/label.

    For instance, in Universal Remotes, Logitech bought out Harmony, but you could tell it was still a Harmony remote for the first few years after the takeover. Since I had a good experience with my first Harmony remote, I didn't hesitate to get another one even though it was now called a Logitech remote. To be fair, they usually called it a Logitech Harmony Remote, but still, Chevy could sell Chevy Sierras. :)
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    edited September 2012
    In the specific case of a minivan, we didn't buy a 4th one simply because our kids had grown out of the "minivan phase". Our youngest was 18 years old when we traded the last van we owned in 2005, and frankly, I doubt my wife would have bought a 4th van if they had offered her a 50% discount.

    It just wasn't the type of vehicle she was interested in anymore, and since she was getting a different style car, it only made sense to see what everyone else had to offer.

    I think factors such as this get omitted from the equation far too often when people look at make/model retention factors.

    No manufacturer has the latest and greatest features every year, in every style vehicle, so I think it's normal to expect a certain mount of brand loyalty "breakage", regardless who the manufacturer happens to be.

    BTW, I have a Harmony remote... Great product!
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    edited September 2012
    At one time they used Pontiac V-8's and had their own unique V-6. And they had four headlights, which clearly meant a step up in prestige from Chevies, which only had two.

    I always laughed at how the Chevy model numbers based on size of the truck (10, 20, 30, etc.) were 'upped' on the GMC models (15, 25, 35)--five 'better' than the Chevy!

    I knew a guy in the early-to-mid-'70's who still claimed GMC's were better, had thicker sheetmetal, etc., than concurrent Chevys, which was preposterous. I mean, the grille was different!

    Of current pickups, I tend to like the GMC wheel opening areas better than the Chevy, but I like the grille styling better on the Chevy. Both have too large rear wheel openings IMHO. I'd have to buy a black truck or paint flat black inside those wheel openings.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    My uncle tended to prefer GMC, because he didn't like the way C H E V R O L E T was spelled out real big across the rear, taking the whole tailgate.

    Ever see "Studebaker" spelled out across a tailgate? How about "International"? ;)
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    This is five minutes long, which I know is long, but I love it, being born in 1958. I used to love the teaser ads for the new Chevys on "Bonanza" and "Bewitched" when I was a kid:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4W7XEjUIhmA

    It's a factor of my age, but I don't know if they ever had a better overall lineup than in '65. The full-size Chevys that year are probably my favorite.

    Funny to see Agnes Moorhead in this clip and realize this was the same period of time she played Velma the slovenly housekeeper in "Hush...Hush, Sweet Charlotte". She's almost unrecognizable in that movie role.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • greg128greg128 Member Posts: 546
    edited September 2012
    Wasn't it something like $40k per taxpayer or something?

    Not quite. Assuming taxpayer liability to be around $25 billion, not counting the value of the stock at the present time ($10-12 billion).

    So counting the stock value divide all of the following numbers in half:

    total taxpayers: around 140 million.

    approx value of liability per taxpayer: $179. Divide by 3 years since the bailout = $60 per year.

    However if You were in the top 5% of earners (over $150,000 gross adjusted income) then your share would be $2,142 divided by 3 years would be about $700 per year.

    The bottom 75% of earner's share (under $32,000) is $105 divided by 3 years is $35.

    Of course if you divide the total number of taxpayers into the total US sovereign debt of $16 trillion it comes out to $114,000 each.
    $179 is .016% of $114,000.
  • greg128greg128 Member Posts: 546
    edited September 2012
    Of course if you divide the total number of taxpayers into the total US sovereign debt of $16 trillion it comes out to $114,000 each.
    $179 is .016% of $114,000.


    Only a completely misinformed and/or delusional person would think this will ever be paid back. The alternative? How about economic collapse? Or Hyperinflation.
    Especially considering we are adding a trillion dollars a year to that amount.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    edited September 2012
    Good commercial, but I can't understand why the "Man from U.N.C.L.E" wound up with the 4-door Corvair instead of the Corvette.

    In 1965, a 4-door Corvair was definitely un-cool.

    Adam Cartwright must have had a better TV contract...
  • greg128greg128 Member Posts: 546
    For the people on this forum worried about the relatively paltry $12 billion that GM still owes the U.S. ( taking into account the stock value of around the same amount and still required to repay) ...... from CNN Money:

    NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Here's a new way to think about the U.S. government's epic borrowing: More than half of the $9 trillion in debt that Uncle Sam is expected to build up over the next decade will be interest.

    More than half. In fact, $4.8 trillion.

    If that's hard to grasp, here's another way to look at why that's a problem.

    In 2015 alone, the estimated interest due - $533 billion - is equal to a third of the federal income taxes expected to be paid that year, said Charles Konigsberg, chief budget counsel of the Concord Coalition, a deficit watchdog group.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Wouldn't you really rather have a Buick?

    Answer: I'd really rather Lemko have a Buick! ;)

    Regards,
    OW
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Does anyone really understand GM?

    Serious question.

    Regards,
    OW
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    That's somebody asleep at the wheel! And everybody knows it was 'not your father's Oldsmobile'--tells you how much these critics really even paid any attention to GM in the years that are probably criticized most roundly here.

    That must "Run Deep" in the uncritical. Remember the good ole' days. It's not your father's GM anymore, that's for s--t Sure!

    I used to admire "Body by Fisher". That became body by "Creaky" in the Dark Decades. ;)

    Regards,
    OW
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    I still own GM shares. Live with my posts! :mad:

    Regards,
    OW
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Like a Rock. Rocks don't move so not much of a vehicle slogan to speak of!

    They do roll, however....off a cliff! :P 2009 GM Go Bust!

    Regards,
    OW
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Ask the man who owns one. (Packard) - Gone

    When better automobiles are built, Buick will build them! - For Lemko Only!

    The Standard of the World. (Cadillac) - The Under World Standard!

    Make a date with a Rocket 8! (Oldsmobile) - Too Late! :blush:

    Regards,
    OW
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    I think "See the USA in your Chevrolet" is absolutely the most iconic auto slogan in the U.S. It was used well into the late '60's and even the "Building a Better Way to See the U.S.A." campaign of the early '70's built on it. The tune was catchy as well. I wish Chevrolet would return to using it, again showing families and their new Chevrolets at historic or vacation spots in the U.S.

    Ain't Gonna Happen! GM always forgets where it came from.

    Regards,
    OW
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    In some cases when you do a trade in, a deler who sells the same car might give you a better trade in number, because then they can turn around and declare it "certified pre-owned" and charge a mark-up and make more money than a dealer that might send it to auction. Sometimes that's a big factor in brand loyalty.

    Of course, the consumer generally doesn't understand this, they just think that dealer is willing to give them more in order to keep their business. :shades:
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    It's also not the "GM Bashers" forum. Good God, for guys who hate GM with such a passion, they sure spend a lot of time here! Maybe it's true that there's a thin line between love and hate?
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Back in the day, a Caprice sure seemed luxurious. Like I've said many times before, if Chevrolet could still make a car as nice as a 1970 Caprice, I'd have no need to look beyond the Chevrolet marque. That car was the pinnacle of Chevrolet styling and comfort.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    My 1975 Cadillac had a plate on it that read "Body by Fisher / Interior by Fleetwood."
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    As a car buff for my whole life, and growing up on Chevys, I have to chuckle that for people who post so regularly on a GM forum, we have a guy who thought an Impala was a Buick

    And I have to laugh that people actually think there is a decent brand differentiation that would cause people to actually REMEMBER the difference between all of those brands! :P ;)
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    Impala? You gotta be kidding me!

    I told this story to my Ford buff coworker (no fan of GM). Even he said, "(expletive), 'Impala' is probably the most-known model name after Corvette there is!"
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Ahh but he didn't say it was well-loved, or popular, did he? Well known is not always a good thing. The Aztek was well-known. :shades:
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    edited September 2012
    I just have to say that you must be waaayyyy younger than a lot of folks on this forum. Impala is a well-respected name. Good grief, anybody should know this. If it weren't, would it have been used on a model for decades? As for popular...check the sales numbers.

    I'm not saying this for shock value...but personally, I am shocked that someone would know so little about the history of the Impala name.

    BTW, check Camaro to Mustang sales for last month, too.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    > Foreign car owners ... will feel that their patriotism is being slighted by their ownership of a foreign car, and ironically, be so insulted that they will stay away.

    And? They bought a car from a foreign company. Through the decades how much wealth has been transferred out of the country? So to be politically correct, no one is supposed to notice?

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    If it weren't, would it have been used on a model for decades?

    Unfortunately, that was the past. The present is this: it was used on a decades-old model.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    So to be politically correct, no one is supposed to notice?

    If I spit in your face, are you going to want to buy my products? It's not a matter of being politically correct, it's a matter of not insulting potential customers.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    Note to bpizzuti: There is a completely new Impala model coming in the spring, as a 2014 model. And no, they're not changing the name.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Impala? You gotta be kidding me!

    I told this story to my Ford buff coworker (no fan of GM). Even he said, "(expletive), 'Impala' is probably the most-known model name after Corvette there is!"


    Well no amount of belittling individual posters changes the facts:

    1 - GM had too many, poorly differentiated divisions - and the STILL have too many, poorly differentiated divisions
    2 - GM invested in THREE totally different hybrid technologies, and so far all three, combined, aren't remotely close in sale to the one technology from the sales leader.
    3 - After BK, GM continued to invest in foreign nameplate companies (Peugeot this time), maintaining the type of behavior that failed in the past
    4 - GM is still losing market share

    Do GM loyalists really think GM is looking highly successful right now, are are they just hoping upon hope?

    Ultimately it doesn't matter whether a poster made a mistake, it matters what happens to GM in the marketplace. So far, it's not looking that good. Perhaps the Next Big Thing or two will turn things around. But a lot of us have been waiting for a long, long, time for that to happen.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Note to uplanderguy: the current Impala is a bazillion-year old fleet queen.
Sign In or Register to comment.