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Oh, just thought I should mention, I was using the old Fusion in my legroom rating. Haven't tried the new one yet. Is the 2013 even out yet? I like the looks of it.
Oh, and one other midsizer I totally forgot about...the Chrysler 200. I sat in one that was on the manufacturer midway at the Mopar show in Carlisle this past summer. It was pretty tight in back, but the seatback was padded, at least, so my knees sunk into it, rather than having to deal with hard plastic.
Dad's 200 convertible is comfy even in the back seat. I wouldn't call it roomy, but adults can fit.
Crossover segment is still red hot:
Escape 28,188 +36.8%
CR-V 23,877 +38.7%
Equinox 20,231 +21.8%
Rav4 15,685 +132.3%
Rogue 12,626 +10.1%
Journey 7,973 +58%
Forester 6,956 +8.2%
Tucson 5,376
CX-5 4,665
Sportage 3,097
Tiguan 2,746 +36.9%
ILX 1,733; hybrid 136
CT 1,472 -32.1%
Cruze 25,975 +19.1%
Civic 24,897 +98.4%; hybrid 579 +426%
Corolla 24,311 +42.6%
Focus 19,073 +35.3%
Elantra 17,989
Jetta 15,446 +6.5%
3 11,120 +18%
Sentra 10,623 +31.8%
Forte 7,300
Impreza 4,719 +84.41%
Caliber 332 -90%
Impala 17,066 +28%
Taurus 5,421 +8.6%
Charger 5,419 +30%
Maxima 5,181 -13.5%
300 4,668 +65%
Avalon 1,761 -29.1%
Azera 959
Camaro 6,675 -2.2%
Mustang 6,387 +11.7%
Challenger 3,311 +5%
Genesis 2,262
FR-S 1,913
BRZ 623
370z 536 +3.7%
Volt 2,831 +837.4%
LEAF 685 -49.7%
Camry 36,720 + Avalon 1,761 = total 38,481
Accord 34,848
Altima 25,889 + Maxima 5,181 = total 31,070
Fusion 21,690 + Taurus 5,421 = total 27,111
Sonata 19,624 + Azera 959 = total 20,583
Malibu 14,495 + Impala 17,066 = total 31,561
Optima 13,949
200 11,997 + 300 4,668 = total 16,665
Passat 10,090
Avenger 7,973 + Charger 5,419 = 13,392
Legacy 3,872
Mazda6 1,592
Chevy breaks in to the top 3 and beats Nissan/Ford/Hyundai, and we should remember Impala sells for higher pricing, so this could prove to be more profitable and sustainable in the long-run.
I don't like the idea that a Malibu is limited by its Impala sibling, but seems like Chevy is just shifting buyers up in price point.
Verano 5,200
ILX 1,733; hybrid 136
CT 1,472 -32.1%
Someone conveniently forgot the 3-series, ATS, and Audi A3.
Impala 17,066 +28%
Taurus 5,421 +8.6%
Charger 5,419 +30%
Maxima 5,181 -13.5%
300 4,668 +65%
Avalon 1,761 -29.1%
Azera 959
This obviously includes fleet sales. :shades:
And for the last time, the Volt and Leaf do not compete. One is a battery vehicle. The other is a plug-in hybrid. I notice you're not comparing the Volt with the Prius plug-in? Why is that?
Verano 5,200
ILX 1,733; hybrid 136
CT 1,472 -32.1%
1series 477 -25.6%
Dunno about you but the 328i I test drove was very close to 50 grand, and that's with the 4 banger.
I notice you're not comparing the Volt with the Prius plug-in? Why is that?
Because the sales numbers I have for the Prius were not broken down.
Why don't you look them up?
Add something to the conversation.
21,111
The catch is that includes the C, regular, V, and plug-in.
It's quite possible the Volt outsold the plug-in...searching....
No break down here:
http://pressroom.toyota.com/releases/august+2012+sales+chart.htm
The 3-series starts around $31k, so it's perfectly reasonable to compare it. Especially if you're bringing in the ILX.
Acura has the TSX and TL, those are the models cross shopped with the 3 series, not the ILX.
How long ago was the last time you looked at a 3 series?
Notice you're harping on the compact BMW and ignoring the compact Audi. You also forgot the Mercedes C class by the way. or is Buick not "luxury" in this situation? What exactly IS Buick? Besides whatever is convenient? Doesn't compete with BMW, doesn't compete with Mercedes, doesn't compete with Audi, apparently only competes with selected Lexuses and Acuras?
How's the Silverado doing, by the way? :shades:
Audi A3 rounds to zero sales. LOL
Buick is premium, i.e. not luxury but not quite mainstream either, kinda like Acura.
A class would eventually make that list when it arrives here.
In other universes not trying to establish a separate niche for Buick, we just say "luxury cars." And you forgot "non-sporty" :shades:
You've got to get out more often.
At least most are diesel.
1 - Horsepower doesn't always equate to sportiness
2 - "Sporty for Buick" does not always equate to sportiness
3 - Because of Buick's ACTUAL niche, if you refer to any Buick as "sporty" you will lose credibility and gain much laughter. :shades:
I mean, look, you're comparing a Verano's sales ($23k to start) to cars that base at $36k and up. You think I should be worried about my credibility?
Regal GS isn't really a Buick to begin with, it's a Vauxhall Insignia.
So if it's Eurosporty premium, then it should be Cadillac, right?
See what I'm getting at about GM's (lack of) brand structure?
MDX 5,549 +77.5%
SRX 5,203 +12.4%
Enclave 5,125 -4.9%
X5 3,568 +21.2%
MKX 2,518 +27.8%
JX 2,378
Mclass 2,243 +2.4%
GX 1,071 +7.7%
Q7 951 +32.1%
FX 608 -17.9%
You don't walk away from money like that.
Please feel free to research and add cars to the list.
Tell him he may have to wait again, 3rd recall:
http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20120905/OEM11/120909944/ford- -recalls-new-escape-again-citing-fire-risk
Yikes, man, Ford can botch a launch like no one else. Even with a very interesting, hot selling product.
If they could nail quality down they'd be unstoppable.
Honda has managed to stay out of that market and we were always glad since resale values drop like a bomb whan those cars are dumped at auction a year or so later.
This certainly affects the numbers.
I verified your numbers. there's a $15K differential between the Verano and the BMW 3-series sedan. It isn't any secret that GM is going head-to-head with the BMW 3-series with the new Caddie ATS.
Comparing the Verano to the 3-series is a bit like comparing a Veloster to a Corvette.
So the Verano yes/no/maybe might compete with BMW and other luxury makes depending on what day it is, what today's definition of "luxury" is, what phase the moon is, and if Pluto is on the cusp of Uranus.
One of the reasons some of us have issues with GM is because GM is clinically insane. :shades:
Out here in CA I've seen quite a lot of Leafs - many more than Volts. Probably I've seen less than 10 Volts total; I've probably seen Leafs at least 20 times.
How do sales compare there?
Isn't it also true that although GM has some good models (thank goodness), overall their market share continues to decline, as while their sales are up -- overall the competition's sales are up MORE?
I've been harping on this for years.
It seems the numerous brands are only there as new ways to shovel out mediocre product.
There's a great idea for another division: the Planetary Division!
GM could rebrand a few models and call them the Pluto, the Neptune, a new Saturn, and all new Uranus! :P
You shouldn't walk away from money like that....
I'd say these two pretty much qualify as sporty! :shades:
So long as the road is straight, flat, and only 1/4 mile in length!
Not quite that bad...probably 14" on the old GS, and 15" on the Grand National.
IMO, those old cars start looking goofy if you put too big of a rim on them. Because they were longer and lower, oversized rims make them look like giant Hot Wheels toys. With today's cars being more upright and stubby though, a 14 or 15" rim makes them look laughable.
Some kind of new Grand National should be contrived.
Remember when they used to be the last car you owned before you died?
Bet that's not the case any more.
One could make a case that these could all just be Cadillacs, but that would be risky, too many people would bring up ancient failures like the Cimarron.
I don't think so...a sporty euro hatch vs. a quiet-tuned sedan?
Just had another thought - Baby Boomers are aging, might not be so bad to have a brand appeal to those buyers here.
Could be CTS-V based, but....
Nah. Doesn't fit Buick's image, then or now.
It's one of those cool foot notes.
Let Cadillac do sporty and build big boats for Baby Boomers.
BB4BB.
Regal turbo tries to be sporty, but is pretty unknown. This imagined new GNX should also be a coupe. They'd sell a few, but doubtful it would be enough to recoup the costs.
I'm betting today's market is quite different, in that few folks want to be seen as "old", even when they are, and being seen in what the majority view as an "old man's car" isn't exactly appealing.
Even GM/Buick recognized that change in attitude...."This isn't your father's Buick", or something similar, was the "catch-phrase" they used for a while. Now, it's "if you think Buick is....blah, blah, blah..., then you don't know Buick".
I don't know if having EVERY professional ball player advertising for Buick can change the old-man's-car image.
What did GM do?
Bad Buick.
Bad, bad, bad.
Don't build something faster than the Vette, and cheaper.....gotta kill it.
Lets not sell as many as we can, make a profit, and use what was learned from turbos/EFI/aftercoolers and develop that technology.
And what are alot of manufacturers turning to now? Turbos!
GM didnt know what it had, faster than the Vette, cant have that.
But Lemko is in his own world where the Chevy 348 and 350 are somehow related!
Why did they lose market share and go bankrupt?
DUH!!!!!!
For the LaCrosse IIRC.
Hey, don't say that...the last car I bought was a Buick! :surprise:
As for the Verano, I hope you're right, that they're bringing in younger buyers. But somehow, I suspect they're bringing in the oldsters on a budget whose Cutlass Ciera or A-body Century is finally starting to give out.