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GM News, New Models and Market Share

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Comments

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    For me the Fusion wins the beauty contest. MPG is close enough for most of them anyway.

    Oh, just thought I should mention, I was using the old Fusion in my legroom rating. Haven't tried the new one yet. Is the 2013 even out yet? I like the looks of it.

    Oh, and one other midsizer I totally forgot about...the Chrysler 200. I sat in one that was on the manufacturer midway at the Mopar show in Carlisle this past summer. It was pretty tight in back, but the seatback was padded, at least, so my knees sunk into it, rather than having to deal with hard plastic.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    Yeah, I remember that...in fact, that's the memory I was going on. I thought the LaCrosse was VERY impressive with regards to legroom. And I don't remember my head touching the ceiling or anything like that. My only beef with the car is that, with the small windows, high beltline, thick pillars, etc, it feels a bit closed-in. But, lots of cars are getting that way these days.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Dunno but I am starting to see TONS of new Escapes. I think the recall stalled the launch but now they can't sell 'em fast enough.

    Dad's 200 convertible is comfy even in the back seat. I wouldn't call it roomy, but adults can fit.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    I live in NE OH and I've seen exactly one new Escape on the road. My coworker, a Ford guy, is interested in turning his 2002 in for one though.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    They must have shipped every single one of them to the DC area, then.

    Crossover segment is still red hot:

    Escape 28,188 +36.8%
    CR-V 23,877 +38.7%
    Equinox 20,231 +21.8%
    Rav4 15,685 +132.3%
    Rogue 12,626 +10.1%
    Journey 7,973 +58%
    Forester 6,956 +8.2%
    Tucson 5,376
    CX-5 4,665
    Sportage 3,097
    Tiguan 2,746 +36.9%
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Verano 5,200
    ILX 1,733; hybrid 136
    CT 1,472 -32.1%

    Cruze 25,975 +19.1%
    Civic 24,897 +98.4%; hybrid 579 +426%
    Corolla 24,311 +42.6%
    Focus 19,073 +35.3%
    Elantra 17,989
    Jetta 15,446 +6.5%
    3 11,120 +18%
    Sentra 10,623 +31.8%
    Forte 7,300
    Impreza 4,719 +84.41%
    Caliber 332 -90%

    Impala 17,066 +28%
    Taurus 5,421 +8.6%
    Charger 5,419 +30%
    Maxima 5,181 -13.5%
    300 4,668 +65%
    Avalon 1,761 -29.1%
    Azera 959

    Camaro 6,675 -2.2%
    Mustang 6,387 +11.7%
    Challenger 3,311 +5%
    Genesis 2,262
    FR-S 1,913
    BRZ 623
    370z 536 +3.7%

    Volt 2,831 +837.4%
    LEAF 685 -49.7%
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    edited September 2012
    Thanks for posting, interesting stuff for sure. By all 'the sky is falling' talk here about the last Cruze recall and how wonderful the new Focus is, I was surprised to see the Cruze still outsell it. I'm happy about that as the Cruze is built just down the road a bit from me.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    For kicks, let's try something out. How much is the Impala affecting Malibu sales, and do they combine for more sales than the Accord's one-size-fits-all strategy?

    Camry 36,720 + Avalon 1,761 = total 38,481
    Accord 34,848
    Altima 25,889 + Maxima 5,181 = total 31,070
    Fusion 21,690 + Taurus 5,421 = total 27,111
    Sonata 19,624 + Azera 959 = total 20,583
    Malibu 14,495 + Impala 17,066 = total 31,561
    Optima 13,949
    200 11,997 + 300 4,668 = total 16,665
    Passat 10,090
    Avenger 7,973 + Charger 5,419 = 13,392
    Legacy 3,872
    Mazda6 1,592

    Chevy breaks in to the top 3 and beats Nissan/Ford/Hyundai, and we should remember Impala sells for higher pricing, so this could prove to be more profitable and sustainable in the long-run.

    I don't like the idea that a Malibu is limited by its Impala sibling, but seems like Chevy is just shifting buyers up in price point.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Oh let me count the cherries that have been picked here. :shades:

    Verano 5,200
    ILX 1,733; hybrid 136
    CT 1,472 -32.1%


    Someone conveniently forgot the 3-series, ATS, and Audi A3.

    Impala 17,066 +28%
    Taurus 5,421 +8.6%
    Charger 5,419 +30%
    Maxima 5,181 -13.5%
    300 4,668 +65%
    Avalon 1,761 -29.1%
    Azera 959


    This obviously includes fleet sales. :shades:

    And for the last time, the Volt and Leaf do not compete. One is a battery vehicle. The other is a plug-in hybrid. I notice you're not comparing the Volt with the Prius plug-in? Why is that?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    That's one really good month, but hopefully they can sustain that momentum.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited September 2012
    3 series is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY above that price class, probably two steps. We could add the 1 series but it gets killed.

    Verano 5,200
    ILX 1,733; hybrid 136
    CT 1,472 -32.1%
    1series 477 -25.6%

    Dunno about you but the 328i I test drove was very close to 50 grand, and that's with the 4 banger.

    I notice you're not comparing the Volt with the Prius plug-in? Why is that?

    Because the sales numbers I have for the Prius were not broken down.

    Why don't you look them up?

    Add something to the conversation.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited September 2012
    PRIUS
    21,111

    The catch is that includes the C, regular, V, and plug-in.

    It's quite possible the Volt outsold the plug-in...searching....

    No break down here:

    http://pressroom.toyota.com/releases/august+2012+sales+chart.htm
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    It was a rhetorical question, we all know why...except you. ;)

    The 3-series starts around $31k, so it's perfectly reasonable to compare it. Especially if you're bringing in the ILX.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited September 2012
    Try $37,395 with freight, 2013 models per Edmunds.

    Acura has the TSX and TL, those are the models cross shopped with the 3 series, not the ILX.

    How long ago was the last time you looked at a 3 series?
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Sooner than the last time you looked at one.

    Notice you're harping on the compact BMW and ignoring the compact Audi. You also forgot the Mercedes C class by the way. or is Buick not "luxury" in this situation? What exactly IS Buick? Besides whatever is convenient? Doesn't compete with BMW, doesn't compete with Mercedes, doesn't compete with Audi, apparently only competes with selected Lexuses and Acuras?

    How's the Silverado doing, by the way? :shades:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Last time a 3 series was $31k I think Nixon was still in office. :P

    Audi A3 rounds to zero sales. LOL

    Buick is premium, i.e. not luxury but not quite mainstream either, kinda like Acura.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    C class? It's been longer than you think. That's over $36k to start also. Remember we're talking about a Verano here.

    A class would eventually make that list when it arrives here.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Entry Premium non-lux non-mainstream roomy upscale compacts

    In other universes not trying to establish a separate niche for Buick, we just say "luxury cars." And you forgot "non-sporty" :shades:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Regal GS changed that.

    You've got to get out more often. ;)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Only 715 A3 sales.

    At least most are diesel.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Three things you and GM need to learn:

    1 - Horsepower doesn't always equate to sportiness
    2 - "Sporty for Buick" does not always equate to sportiness
    3 - Because of Buick's ACTUAL niche, if you refer to any Buick as "sporty" you will lose credibility and gain much laughter. :shades:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited September 2012
    Your expectations are way off.

    I mean, look, you're comparing a Verano's sales ($23k to start) to cars that base at $36k and up. You think I should be worried about my credibility? :D

    Regal GS isn't really a Buick to begin with, it's a Vauxhall Insignia.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Ahh, THAT explains why it's a Buick, it's not really a Buick!

    So if it's Eurosporty premium, then it should be Cadillac, right?

    See what I'm getting at about GM's (lack of) brand structure?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Buick exists for one reason: China.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    So why are they still selling them here? Complete and total waste. But GM just couldn't stand to give up their dreams of total domination and enough brands to choke both an elephant AND a donkey simultaneously.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Enclave sells well and at higher prices than the Traverse.

    MDX 5,549 +77.5%
    SRX 5,203 +12.4%
    Enclave 5,125 -4.9%
    X5 3,568 +21.2%
    MKX 2,518 +27.8%
    JX 2,378
    Mclass 2,243 +2.4%
    GX 1,071 +7.7%
    Q7 951 +32.1%
    FX 608 -17.9%

    You don't walk away from money like that.

    Please feel free to research and add cars to the list.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I live in NE OH and I've seen exactly one new Escape on the road. My coworker, a Ford guy, is interested in turning his 2002 in for one though.

    Tell him he may have to wait again, 3rd recall:

    http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20120905/OEM11/120909944/ford- -recalls-new-escape-again-citing-fire-risk

    Yikes, man, Ford can botch a launch like no one else. Even with a very interesting, hot selling product.

    If they could nail quality down they'd be unstoppable.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    It has to be remembered that the rental car companies buy Toyotas and GM cars by the boatload.

    Honda has managed to stay out of that market and we were always glad since resale values drop like a bomb whan those cars are dumped at auction a year or so later.

    This certainly affects the numbers.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    I mean, look, you're comparing a Verano's sales ($23k to start) to cars that base at $36k and up.

    I verified your numbers. there's a $15K differential between the Verano and the BMW 3-series sedan. It isn't any secret that GM is going head-to-head with the BMW 3-series with the new Caddie ATS.

    Comparing the Verano to the 3-series is a bit like comparing a Veloster to a Corvette.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    That depends on whether Buick is luxury or not (apparently today it's not) and whether Buick is sporty or not (which it apparently isn't unless one brings up the Regal GS).

    So the Verano yes/no/maybe might compete with BMW and other luxury makes depending on what day it is, what today's definition of "luxury" is, what phase the moon is, and if Pluto is on the cusp of Uranus.

    One of the reasons some of us have issues with GM is because GM is clinically insane. :shades:
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    In all fairness, besides China there may be another reason for the continuation of Buick (and GMC). GM has a lot of non urban dealerships spread throughout North America that would have been expensive to eliminate. I can't see that it is really all that incrementally expensive to keep the brands since Buick is basically Opel derived and GMC from Chevy trucks. If you throw in all of the various rural dealers combined with the strong GM loyalty in the north central USA cities, it likely brings in a fair amount of revenue compared to the cost of keeping these divisions open. I think the GM goal is to move Cadillac upward in segment and use Buick for near lux. I don't know if that strategy will pan out, but from a business perspective, if the division is bringing in incremental net profit, why close it? I mean, at worst Buick has a neutral image, so keeping it around isn't really harming Chevy and Cadillac. Probably more traffic comes from Chevy and any Buick or GMC sold in lieu of a Chevy brings a fatter profit margin. I doubt it is siphoning much business from Cadillac.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    I have yet to see a Leaf on the streets. Every once in a while I'll see an original Insight.

    Out here in CA I've seen quite a lot of Leafs - many more than Volts. Probably I've seen less than 10 Volts total; I've probably seen Leafs at least 20 times.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,928
    Doesn't the Verano compete with the VW Golf/GTI?

    How do sales compare there?
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    That's one really good month, but hopefully they can sustain that momentum.

    Isn't it also true that although GM has some good models (thank goodness), overall their market share continues to decline, as while their sales are up -- overall the competition's sales are up MORE?
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    See what I'm getting at about GM's (lack of) brand structure?

    I've been harping on this for years.

    It seems the numerous brands are only there as new ways to shovel out mediocre product.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    edited September 2012
    So the Verano yes/no/maybe might compete with BMW and other luxury makes depending on what day it is, what today's definition of "luxury" is, what phase the moon is, and if Pluto is on the cusp of Uranus.

    There's a great idea for another division: the Planetary Division!

    GM could rebrand a few models and call them the Pluto, the Neptune, a new Saturn, and all new Uranus! :P

    You shouldn't walk away from money like that.... ;)
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    image

    image

    I'd say these two pretty much qualify as sporty! :shades:
  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    I'd say these two pretty much qualify as sporty!

    So long as the road is straight, flat, and only 1/4 mile in length!
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Are those 13 inch rims I see?
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    Are those 13 inch rims I see?

    Not quite that bad...probably 14" on the old GS, and 15" on the Grand National.

    IMO, those old cars start looking goofy if you put too big of a rim on them. Because they were longer and lower, oversized rims make them look like giant Hot Wheels toys. With today's cars being more upright and stubby though, a 14 or 15" rim makes them look laughable.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    I don't know about sporty, but fast and cool no doubt.

    Some kind of new Grand National should be contrived.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Agreed, but we should look at fleet sales as a % of total sales, not just fleet totals.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'm also curious to find out about demographics. I bet with the Verano around Buick is brining in younger buyers.

    Remember when they used to be the last car you owned before you died? :D

    Bet that's not the case any more.

    One could make a case that these could all just be Cadillacs, but that would be risky, too many people would bring up ancient failures like the Cimarron.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Doesn't the Verano compete with the VW Golf/GTI?

    I don't think so...a sporty euro hatch vs. a quiet-tuned sedan?

    Just had another thought - Baby Boomers are aging, might not be so bad to have a brand appeal to those buyers here.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Some kind of new Grand National should be contrived.

    Could be CTS-V based, but....

    Nah. Doesn't fit Buick's image, then or now.

    It's one of those cool foot notes.

    Let Cadillac do sporty and build big boats for Baby Boomers.

    BB4BB. :D
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    edited September 2012
    Caddy doesn't have a history of sporty though, V series cars being a very recent development. Caddy was flash and luxury, Buick was solid boats.

    Regal turbo tries to be sporty, but is pretty unknown. This imagined new GNX should also be a coupe. They'd sell a few, but doubtful it would be enough to recoup the costs.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    In regards to Buick, from the past's perspective, I would agree that an aging population "might" have been a great target market.

    I'm betting today's market is quite different, in that few folks want to be seen as "old", even when they are, and being seen in what the majority view as an "old man's car" isn't exactly appealing.

    Even GM/Buick recognized that change in attitude...."This isn't your father's Buick", or something similar, was the "catch-phrase" they used for a while. Now, it's "if you think Buick is....blah, blah, blah..., then you don't know Buick".

    I don't know if having EVERY professional ball player advertising for Buick can change the old-man's-car image.
  • fho2008fho2008 Member Posts: 393
    Problem is this isnt the 70's or 80's. No doubt that GNX is bad a**

    What did GM do?

    Bad Buick.

    Bad, bad, bad.

    Don't build something faster than the Vette, and cheaper.....gotta kill it.

    Lets not sell as many as we can, make a profit, and use what was learned from turbos/EFI/aftercoolers and develop that technology.

    And what are alot of manufacturers turning to now? Turbos!

    GM didnt know what it had, faster than the Vette, cant have that.

    But Lemko is in his own world where the Chevy 348 and 350 are somehow related!

    Why did they lose market share and go bankrupt?

    DUH!!!!!!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Their ad with Shaq is funny. Wonder how effective it is, though?

    For the LaCrosse IIRC.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    Remember when they used to be the last car you owned before you died?

    Hey, don't say that...the last car I bought was a Buick! :surprise:

    As for the Verano, I hope you're right, that they're bringing in younger buyers. But somehow, I suspect they're bringing in the oldsters on a budget whose Cutlass Ciera or A-body Century is finally starting to give out.
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