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GM News, New Models and Market Share

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  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Don't worry they last forever.

    I'll have to pay attention to the age of Verano drivers. They're selling a bunch so we should start seeing more of them on the road.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Heck, the FIRST car I bought was a Buick, and so was the second! Hey, I must be immortal! :P
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    I'll have to pay attention to the age of Verano drivers. They're selling a bunch so we should start seeing more of them on the road.

    Here's a bit of age-related interesting reading...

    http://blog.polk.com/blog/blog-posts-by-tom-libby/buick-goes-against-trend-and-a- ttracts-younger-buyers
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Thanks, relevant and useful link.

    Buyers ages are shifting with Boomers, as I suspected.

    59 years old for the Verano. Young for Buick, but certainly not young buyers.

    Wow, though, car buyers are geezin' - 51 average.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    If Buick has gotten their average age down to 59, that's pretty impressive. I remember back in 2003 when my Dad bought his '03 Regal, the Regal was the most "youthful" car in their lineup, with an average buyer age of 57. I think the Century and Park Ave both had an average age of 70, and the LeSabre was around 67.

    Now that I think about it, I think the Rendezvous was around 48. Dunno about the Rainier or Terraza. Back in those days, MSNautos used to list the average buyer age in the stats of their car reviews, and for some reason the Buick numbers stuck with me.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    edited September 2012
    What I'm wondering is if that article covered ONLY buyers, but not leased vehicles. Also, I wonder if fleet vehicles are factored into the sale.

    Makes sense that, overall, the average buyer age advanced along with the calendar, as that age group is likely to be the most financially "secure", if indeed that's the correct descriptor.

    Lastly, all these numbers HAVE to be skewed.... If I Co-signed for/bought a car for my teenage son (that is, if I had a teenage son), I would guess the stats would show a 58 year old buying the car, not a 17 year old kid.

    So, just like your GPS warns you, any analysis such as this needs to be given a "sanity check" before being taken at face value.

    I wonder what the average age is for a car like the Veloster or Soul?

    Might be surprising...
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    Even GM/Buick recognized that change in attitude...."This isn't your father's Buick", or something similar, was the "catch-phrase" they used for a while. Now, it's "if you think Buick is....blah, blah, blah..., then you don't know Buick".

    "Not your father's Oldsmobile" was one of the best-remembered bad slogans of the past thirty years. Dad's Oldsmobiles were far more interesting than Oldses of that period!

    I always liked the slogan "Wouldn't you really rather have a Buick", and I also liked, "When Better Cars are Built, Buick Will Build Them".
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    "Not your father's Oldsmobile" was one of the best-remembered bad slogans of the past thirty years. Dad's Oldsmobiles were far more interesting than Oldses of that period!

    As I recall, that one pissed off a lot of people, and could be considered the seeds of Oldsmobile's downfall. It alienated the faithful Oldsmobile buyers, while the new buyers that it did woo only wished the new ones were built as well as their Father's Oldsmobile!

    I always liked the slogan "Wouldn't you really rather have a Buick", and I also liked, "When Better Cars are Built, Buick Will Build Them".

    I liked "wouldn't you really rather have a Buick". It made the car seem like something to aspire to. And the ads tended to show people of all types, so it really didn't get typecast as an old people's car. However, when they switched to "The Great American Road Belongs to Buick" in the late 80's, I just get this mental image of an elderly couple cruising down the road into the sunset in an '88 Regal in a generic shade that matches the hair in Grandma's wig.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    "Not your father's Oldsmobile" came out when I was maybe 10 years old. I immediately joked "It's your grandfather's!" - spurred on by my grandmother driving an Olds, I guess. Dumb slogan.

    The old "Cadillac Style" ads were catchy and not offensive or stupid anyway.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    As a car buff for my whole life, and growing up on Chevys, I have to chuckle that for people who post so regularly on a GM forum, we have a guy who thought an Impala was a Buick, and another who thought the slogan was "Not your father's Buick"!

    Gentle ribbing, nothing more.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    >we have a guy who thought an Impala was a Buick, and another who thought the slogan was "Not your father's Buick"!

    I found those highly illuminating of problems and makes me wonder how their posts can be so critical of a company they don't understand.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    It's illustrative of GM's (very serious) brand identity and messaging problems, you know, the ones the GM fanboys never want to admit to?

    Didn't one of them actually give us "Not your father's Buick?" :shades:
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    edited September 2012
    My father's Oldsmobile was a sleek 1955 Ninety-Eight Starfire convertible! Heck, my own Oldsmobile was a 1979 Ninety-Eight Regency. My wife had a 1999 Cutlass sedan when that awful slogan was in vogue. Yeah, it most certainly wasn't either my father's or even my Oldsmobile. To call that mediocre piece of crud an Oldsmobile would've been an insult to Ransom E.

    Sad thing is, by the time GM pulled the plug on Oldsmobile, it looked like the marque was having a bit of a comeback. I thought the Aurora and Intrigue were pretty nice cars.

    I LOVE both those slogans about Buick and often use them myself. Heck, my wife was talking about a co-worker's Lexus and she then said "I'd rather have a Buick!"
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    The "Cadillac Style" ads were on TV around the time I bought my 1989 Brougham. I really loved those! It was true then as it is now - "The only way to travel is Cadillac style!" It brings an instant smile to my face! :D
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    Didn't one of them actually give us "Not your father's Buick?"

    Well, that was Oldsmobile. Here's one of their ads for the Cutlass Ciera, featuring the Judds: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-orYU4b1PE

    Oddly enough "your Father's Oldsmobile" did just fine through most of the 1970's and up through 1985. In the early 70's it ousted Pontiac as the #3 brand in America (although Plymouth managed to hold that title twice...something like 1971 and 1973?). I think the managed 1M cars per year in 1977-79. And in the early 80's, Olds actually outsold Ford for a couple years!

    In 1985, three of the top 10 selling cars in the United States were Oldsmobiles. They were the Cutlass Ciera (#4), Cutlass Supreme (#9), and the Delta 88 (forget its place). Chevrolet also had three (Cavalier, Celebrity, Caprice/Impala). Buick had one (Century). Ford had two (Escort, Tempo). The lone import in the Top Ten was the Nissan Sentra.

    So, Olds really did have a good thing going, selling traditional cars that had broad appeal. But, they started messing it up in the later 80's. For one thing, the downsized '86 Olds 88 never sold nearly as well as the RWD model. The Cutlass Supreme was aging, and personal luxury coupes in general were fading from popularity. And, as time wore on the Ciera would fade away as well.

    The Olds 98 and Toronado were traditionally strong sellers too, although they were more expensive and luxurious, and less mainstream. But, the shrunken '86 Toronado was a flop. The shrunken FWD 98 was popular for a few years, but then dried up fast. On the lower end, the Calais was fairly popular for awhile, but again, it just wouldn't last.

    I think where GM really messed up was in reacting to the Ford Taurus. The Taurus/Sable came out in 1986, but it wasn't until 1990 that GM reacted, with the Lumina and 4-door Grand Prix/Regal/Cutlass Supreme. GM put a lot more effort into the coupe versions of these cars, which came out for 1988 (BOP, Chevy was absent until the '90 Lumina coupe), but catered to a shrinking market. And by the time the 4-doors came out, they just seemed like rush jobs. And, in the case of Olds (and Buick) they kept the old A-body Century and Ciera around well past their prime. These cars could do just about anything that a 4-door Regal or Cutlass Supreme could, but at a lower price. And, their styling was more in tune with what your typical midsized Olds/Buick buyer wanted. Not surprisingly, in final-year 1996, the Ciera and Century were among the most popular sellers of their respective brands. I'm pretty sure the Ciera WAS Oldmsobile's top seller that year, but at Buick it might have been the LeSabre. By this time, a lot of Centurys and Cieras were also getting dumped into rental fleets, but there were still a lot of buyers who wanted their budget Buicks and Oldsmobiles.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    When I bought my first new car - a 1987 Chevrolet Caprice Classic, the sales guy tried to push a black FWD Oldsmobile Delta 88 on me. I said, "NO WAY!!!" He'd have had much better luck if Olds still had the big body-on-frame RWD V-8 Delta 88 or even had an immaculate used 1984 Ninety-Eight Regency on the lot.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    Didn't one of them actually give us "Not your father's Buick?"

    Not a huge deal, but I am pretty surprised that two regular posters here got something so basic about GM's history wrong. The Impala a Buick? That's got nothing to do with GM's branding image. It is probably the best-known model name (to most people) after Corvette and Suburban, and has been used for most of the past 54 years. That's somebody asleep at the wheel! And everybody knows it was 'not your father's Oldsmobile'--tells you how much these critics really even paid any attention to GM in the years that are probably criticized most roundly here.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Several good points, but if someone buys a car for his teenager then that person is still technically the owner, though the one with the pimples is driving most of the time.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    Several good points, but if someone buys a car for his teenager then that person is still technically the owner, though the one with the pimples is driving most of the time.

    I wonder, if there are two people's names on the title to the car, how they would factor in the buyer's age? For example, back when my Dad bought his '03 Regal, he put my name on the title as a co-owner. His reasoning was that it would simplify things in the event of his death, as the car would then go to me and probably never enter into probate. At that time, Dad was 57 and I was 33.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    When I bought my first new car - a 1987 Chevrolet Caprice Classic, the sales guy tried to push a black FWD Oldsmobile Delta 88 on me. I said, "NO WAY!!!"

    Funny, that's when my grandpa switched from Olds to Chevy. He didn't want a FWD v6 car and traded his '83 Delta 88 on an 87 Caprice Brougham LS.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    Well, I did pose the "not your father's Buick" as more of a question than a statement.

    Funny how some slogans stick, and others don't...

    See the USA in your Chevrolet...

    BMW...The ultimate driving machine...

    Zoom, zoom...

    Others, not so much.

    Fortunately for me, I have a life outside of being a GM fanboy.

    I call it as I see it.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    Fortunately for me, I have a life outside of being a GM fanboy.

    You post pretty frequently to a GM board to make this statement.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited September 2012
    Gender = Androgynous (if male+female sharing the car)

    Age = average of the two

    LOL
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    edited September 2012
    Funny, that's when my grandpa switched from Olds to Chevy. He didn't want a FWD v6 car and traded his '83 Delta 88 on an 87 Caprice Brougham LS.

    I think a lot of people spurned those FWD cars. There was an older guy at our church who had an early 80's Buick Electra coupe. My grandparents really liked it, and were hating their '82 Malibu Classic wagon, with its anemic 229 V-6, with a passion.

    So, they decided they wanted an Electra. Unfortunately, this was 1984, and the shrunken '85 FWD models had just come out, prematurely. Granddad hated it, and decided he'd better go get a LeSabre while he could, because he figured GM would soon screw that one up as well!

    One Friday night in October 1984, they went out looking at Buicks. The first LeSabre they looked at was a nice medium blue one. It wouldn't start, which gave Grandmom a bad vibe. Probably just the battery, but she didn't want anything to do with it. So they looked at a gray one that fired right up. Bought it, and it turned out to be one of the best cars they ever owned.

    Grandmom gave it to me when she had to give up driving back in 1999. I kept it until the brakes went out on it, in 2002. Would've been tempted to just get it fixed and keep it longer, but Mom was hinting about wanting to get rid of Granddad's old '85 Silverado, that got passed on to her. I figured my '79 5th Ave was enough to give me my big old 4-door sedan fix and didn't really need the Buick, so I got rid of it, and got the truck. The Buick had about 157,000 miles on it at the time, and still ran great. Stopping was a different story.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    Actually, your identification of my "error" highlights an excellent point, which is the unreliable nature of forum postings.

    Yes, the same postings that some would use to "verify" their claims of, I don't know, say... certain vehicle models with bad transmissions.

    But, in direct answer to your comment, my tax $$$ "investment" gave me the right to comment on GM as much as anyone else.

    After all, the title of the thread is "GM News, New Models and Market Share".... Not "GM Fanboy Comment Thread".
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    That ad is a part of my childhood memories. Sadly, I remember those unfortunate downsized Caddies of the period too, a friend's grandmother had a tiny Eldo, black with a white interior, and another friend's grandfather had a yellow (!) Deville. Seemed that light yellow was popular then. Looking at how the brand has progressed in the past 20-25 years makes it hard to write off today.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Actually, I would have put "see the USA in your Chevrolet" in the "not so much" column. "Like a Rock" is probably the most memorable one they had, but it was truck-oriented. "An American Revolution" wasn't too bad, but like too many of Chevy's marketing slogans, relied too much on the flag and not enough on the product.

    "Like a rock" was one of the few that didn't, and hence really sticks out.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    edited September 2012
    Based upon your response, I'm guessing I'm older than you ...57.

    The "See the USA in your Chevrolet" was part of a set of lyrics, and probably most famously sung by Dinah Shore in TV and radio commercials.

    http://www.google.com/search?q=see%20the%20usa%20in%20your%20chevrolet

    If you watched TV in the late 50's, you couldn't have missed it...

    For folks my age and older, I'd bet it's got a high recognition rate.

    "Like a rock" came much later, and I think it was based on a lyric from a Bob Seger song.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Actually they just used the whole Seger song in the background. And that campaign lasted 13 years. Campaigns that work, last. The ones that don't, get dumped. Chevy has gone through TONS of short-lived campaigns, most of which rely more on the flag than the product.

    Zoom zoom - this tells you about the product.

    Ultimate driving machine - this tells you about the product.

    Quality is job One - this tells you about the product. It lies, but it still tells about the product. ;)

    Like a rock - THIS tells you about the product. In fact, it's a key feature for truck buyers.

    In the meantime, GM's parade of patriotic slogans include the following, none of which describe the PRODUCT, except making a point that it's an American-made product (well, I guess Canada counts).

    USA-1 Taking charge
    Heartbeat of America
    Baseball, Hotdogs, Apple Pie, and Chevrolet.
    Rock, Flag, and Eagle
    An American Revolution - this at least has an implication that the product is revolutionary, but still hugs that flag.

    I love America, but you can't rely on the flag to sell your product for you. If that's the best thing you can say about your product, you may as well go home.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    edited September 2012
    LOL, back in H.S. when I was a GM fan (the ignorant, biased "Buy Murican, everything else is crap" type unfortunately) and I drove my 87' Cutlass to school, I used to have friends who would give me a hard time for driving and Olds (also know as the "Old mans car") rather than the Mustangs, Camaros and Firbirds that they drove.

    My rebuttal to them was the typical "Found On Road Dead", "Fix Or Repair Daily" slander and for my Chevy friends it was "Like a Rock... dead on the side of the road with it's hood up..." :P

    Then they found out I was packing a healthy (for its time) 4-bbl, Small block V8 which was later modded by me and they showed a little more respect. :shades:
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    edited September 2012
    BTW, did we ever figure out how much each of us ended up paying for the bailout? I always chuckle at the "dammit, I'm an owner of GM, I'm a taxpayer!" comment, which I see many times a day.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Speaking of that, not that I want to get political, but the Veep actually used GM to respond to recent criticism from conservatives.

    GM and Chrysler officially closed their plants to politicians recently (before Biden's comment), which is smart. They didn't want to be pawns in a chess match.

    But the bailout is being used by politicians whether GM likes it or not.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Wasn't it something like $40k per taxpayer or something?
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    That's what happens when you make a deal with the devil.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Reminds me of Devil Went Down to Georgia....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDm_ZHyYTrg

    Great song!

    Devil doesn't always win. ;)
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    Chuckle all you like, but until the money is repaid, it is exactly that. The taxpayer currently owns a significant share of GM.

    No one has lost anything yet, so it's a bit premature to be talking about losses, or gains.

    Until that story has been written in its entirety, like it or not, the taxpayer IS an owner of GM.

    Of course, the taxpayer owns far more... Including $15+ trillion in debt, among other things. GM better hope that the bailout $$$ don't become part of that debt, because if you think GM has an adversarial relationship with many taxpayers now, well, "you ain't seen nothing yet".

    If the day does come, and that's a big "if", I pity the poor guy who happens to be president then. It'll be a political weight likely to sink the best politician. It won't matter if he had nothing to do with it, but you can rest assured he'll be the guy who gets the blame for it.

    "Success has many fathers, but failure is an orphaned child"...

    Ateixeira, you made a good point. The best thing that GM and Chrysler can do is stay away from stump-preaching politicians as far as possible. There is no upside, only downside.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    http://www.autoblog.com/2012/09/06/gm-europe-teases-new-vauxhall-cascada-convert- ible-could-become/

    Dad just got a 200 'vert, maybe he'll eventually replace it with this?
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Had Cadillac kept going in that direction, I guarantee you'd see me driving something other than a Cadillac today!
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Mercury - the man's car! (I use this one when my wife and I decide to take my Grand Marquis on a trip).

    Ask the man who owns one. (Packard)

    When better automobiles are built, Buick will build them!

    The Standard of the World. (Cadillac)

    Make a date with a Rocket 8! (Oldsmobile)
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    edited September 2012
    There's a reason "Zoom Zoom" has lasted as long as it has. Actually there's several.

    1. Simplicity
    2. Doesn't require thought or explanation
    3. Catchy
    4. Accurate
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    In an ironic sort of way, it occurs to me that, even though Oldsmobile trumped "this isn't your father's Oldsmobile", the chances are that when you see someone driving one today, the car probably does belong (or did at one time) to the driver's father...
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I remember the Volkswagen "fahrvergnügen" ads simply because it was such an unusual word. I believe the word means"driving enjoyment."
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Yeah, also a very effective campaign.

    GM (mostly Chevy) seems to have trouble with effective campaigns. I personally think it's because of their insistence on the heavy patriotic element. That will be a big turnoff in the following situations:

    1. Foreign car owners, rather than being interested in checking out new Chevys, will feel that their patriotism is being slighted by their ownership of a foreign car, and ironically, be so insulted that they will stay away.

    2. In partisan political times (read: election season...like, say, now) some people really get overloaded on flag-waving, and getting more is not appealing at all.

    Caddy seems to be OK with its ad campaigns, they're very consistent with the euro-sport stuff. Buick, just like their cars, all over the map. And I don't remember the last GMC commercial I saw....which in itself says something.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    USA-1 Taking charge
    Rock, Flag, and Eagle


    Huh?

    I think "See the USA in your Chevrolet" is absolutely the most iconic auto slogan in the U.S. It was used well into the late '60's and even the "Building a Better Way to See the U.S.A." campaign of the early '70's built on it. The tune was catchy as well. I wish Chevrolet would return to using it, again showing families and their new Chevrolets at historic or vacation spots in the U.S.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Come up with your own "catchphrase" for an ad campaign. One short phrase that is descriptive and accurate and stands for Chevy's cars (let's make it easy and skip the trucks).

    Bonus points if you can come up with one for Buick as well. :shades:
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    edited September 2012
    "Marque of the Rental Car" :blush::D
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    edited September 2012
    He said Chevrolet, not Toyota.

    Actually, last year when I was in Minneapolis for twelve consecutive weeks, I had exactly one Chevrolet rental. I had one Toyota, and the rest were Fords and Kias.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    "Buick, Because real men don't wear Bowties"...

    Oops, already been taken. :P
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    Isn't that what GM has done?

    There's a commercial showing old pictures of scenes (Yosemite is one, I believe) with old models, then overplayed with newer, present day models.

    I think another scene in it involves a Corvette.

    It's a very well-done commercial.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited September 2012
    I don't remember the last GMC commercial

    They did the "Professional Grade" thing for a while.

    It was fine, but what does that make Chevy trucks? Being a clone, there wasn't really enough behind that tagline.
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