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GM News, New Models and Market Share

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  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    OK, but not by me.

    You need a large sample for any data to have meaning.

    There's always one loud mouth who has an odd ball problem in any given brand, and they make it a vendetta to tell everyone in the world as if it would bring them down or something.

    I'm sure it happens for every make and model.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Ody sales up 61.3% for August.

    I'm sure the Spin Doctors will say those are trade-ins that limped in with bad transmissions.

    LOL

    If they were so bad people wouldn't keep coming in for more.

    Especially given how ugly those are. Yikes.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    edited September 2012
    >Cherry-picking on this forum is legendary

    Understatement.

    But I've seen that some are indeed interested in reality on the negatives, and that is good news. There are positives to GM's position.

    But I still think GM still needs another infusion of money from the Current Administration to shape GM into a company with a future. There are negatives to having the UAW involved in ownership as granted by the adminstration. As you saw yesterday in the speech to the union folks in Toledo (UAW and other union members bused in) the intergration of the UAW into the ownership of the company leads to interesting dynamics in the political end of the Administration.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    Especially given how ugly those are. Yikes.

    THAT we agree on.

    It looks like the rear 1/3 of it is from another vehicle.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited September 2012
    Infusions of money are good but I'd hope that with more of a clean slate that GM has these days, they'd be able to draw from a line of credit from the usual private sources. And they're working on doubling the $5 billion credit line they have now:

    GM looks to expand credit line (Detroit Free Press)
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    Ill take any reasonable odds on no more cash infusion until after the November elections.

    Even after that, the odds are slim, at best. If it does occur, it will be significantly different than the last one, with a total and complete management/organizational shakeup before any more $$$ distributed.

    There's a significant percentage of the population that, given the choice of more $$$ or entry into another war, would opt for the war first.

    That may change, based on unknown factors at ths time, but frankly, I don't see it. Severe protectionist measures would most likely precede another cash infusion.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    We know, you had a lousy '95 bottom-of-the-line Mopar product:

    AUBURN HILLS, Mich., Sept. 4, 2012 /PRNewswire/ --

    •Best August sales since 2007
    •29th-consecutive month of year-over-year sales gains
    •Chrysler, Jeep®, Dodge, Ram Truck, and FIAT brands each post sales increases in August compared with same month a year ago
    •FIAT brand sets all-time sales record with 34 percent increase
    •FIAT brand introduces the new 2013 Fiat 500 Turbo, the fourth model in U.S. product lineup
    •Chrysler brand sales up 25 percent; best August sales since 2007
    •Chrysler 300 flagship sedan records 65 percent increase; best August sales since 2007
    •Chrysler 200 mid-size sedan sets sales record for month of August
    •Chrysler Town & Country posts 30 percent sales increase; best August since 2006
    •Ram Truck brand sales up 18 percent compared with same month last year
    •Ram pickup truck sales up 19 percent in August as Light Duty, Heavy Duty and Chassis Cab models post sales gains
    •Best Ram pickup truck sales since 2007
    •Dodge brand sales up 13 percent; best August sales since 2005
    •Sales of the all-new 2013 Dodge Dart up 294 percent compared with previous month as production ramp up continues in the Belvidere, Ill. assembly plant
    •Dodge Journey full-size crossover sets an all-time sales record
    •Dodge Avenger mid-size sedan and Dodge Challenger muscle car set sales records for month of August
    •Dodge Grand Caravan sales up 35 percent; best August sales since 2005
    •Jeep brand sales increase 5 percent in August; best August since 2003
    •Jeep Wrangler sets sales record for month of August
    •Jeep Grand Cherokee sales up 13 percent compared with same month a year ago; best August sales since 2006
    •Chrysler Group's revamped product lineup and extensive quality investments make it the most improved automaker in Strategic Vision's 2012 Total Quality Index study
    •Dodge Charger, Jeep Grand Cherokee and Fiat 500 win Strategic Vision 2012 Total Quality Awards
    •Jeep Grand Cherokee, Dodge Charger and Dodge Challenger win AutoPacific's 2012 Ideal Vehicle Awards based on owners' ratings of their 2012 cars and trucks
    Chrysler Group LLC today reported U.S. sales of 148,472 units, a 14 percent increase compared with sales in August 2011 (130,120 units), and the group's best August sales since 2007
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • greg128greg128 Member Posts: 546
    edited September 2012
    Bad news for Volt haters....

    August sales were best ever (2831) up 153% from July. YTD up 425%

    Leaf sales YTD down 26%
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    edited September 2012
    There was a Leaf problem in our yard, too. Our Canadian Red Chokeberry lost a bunch of its Leafs recently. Borers. We cut it down and hauled it away.

    Leaf problem gone. ;)

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    Didn't each of the Big-3 record fairly decent increases in sales for the month?
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Of course. It's Incentive Month, time to pay people to take the 2012s away.
  • greg128greg128 Member Posts: 546
    Too bad CR still rates all of Chryslers car and truck lineup on average lower than any other car manufacturer

    Given the amount of information available on the internet CR is outdated and irrelevant. They can take their biased and slanted magazine to the place where it belongs...the bottom of a bird cage.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,928
    The only good thing about Chrysler is for GM. As long as Chrysler's still around, GM won't be ranked as the worst car manufacturer score-wise by CR.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,928
    edited September 2012
    Given the amount of information available on the internet CR is outdated and irrelevant. They can take their biased and slanted magazine to the place where it belongs...the bottom of a bird cage.

    Funny, I say the same thing about GM and Chrysler that you do about CR.

    Given the amount of information available on the internet, GM & Chrysler are outdated and irrelevant. They can take their lemons and lame cars to the place where it belongs... in the pages of history.

    Besides, if CR goes bankrupt 1,000,000 jobs will be lost and the economy will go into an unstoppable tailspin spiraling into total anarchy. :blush: I'm trying my best fear-mongering speech impersonation.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    Tying Chrysler into our earlier discussion of Odyssey transmissions, I was surprised that no one who was supporting the accuracy of the NHTSA data posted, mentioned how from that it would appear that Toyota Sienna transmissions were notably "worse" than the others for problems in 2006 and later. Of course, the conventional wisdom would have put Chrysler there. Though, I think someone might have mentioned once here that rock-solid philosophy that 'maybe foreign owners tend to complain more'. Man.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    Only on this board is a list like that turned into a negative! LOL
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Actually, you forgot about Mitsubishi and Suzuki. Mitsu's only saving grace is the Evo, and Suzuki....well....
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    Suzuki's Equator pickup truck ain't too bad. But, to paraphrase our Commander in Chief...they didn't build that!

    One of my friends had to put his Xterra in the body shop for a couple days, thanks to a 2001 Elantra that sacrificed itself on his rear bumper at a traffic light. His loaner car was a Mitsubishi Endeavor. I didn't get a chance to ride in it, but did sit in it. Didn't seem like a bad rig to me. Nothing special or exciting about it, but nothing really horrible about it, either.

    My buddy did mention though, that it felt like a dog compared to his Xterra. But he liked the smoother ride.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Mitsubishi has the MIEV? Anybody seen one outside of a car show? I have yet to see a Leaf on the streets. Every once in a while I'll see an original Insight.

    I'm surprised at the amount of Volts I've been seeing lately. If a Volt wasn't so ridiculously expensive, I would get one just for my daily commute to work and shopping. I probably would only have to put gas in it once a year! I would probably be spending more on Stabil gas treatment than actual gas to keep it from getting stale.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    The Volt's way more than I would spend for a car, but I have to say, I think it's better-looking than other similar cars. I know people love their Priuses, but I don't know why they have to be such a blight on the landscape IMO.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Yeah, why did they have to make the Prius so dorky looking? Why couldn't they have just made a "Corolla Hybrid?" Honda had the Civic Hybrid, but they had to come out with the copycat Insight. I thought the original Insight was kind of cool as a little two-seat "bullet car."
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    Actually, I think Honda Insight is fairly attractive looking, compared to the Prius. I've never sat in one, but unfortunately I've heard the Insight is pretty cramped. I actually find the Prius to be fairly comfortable...only problem is, I'd have to look at it!

    The Volt, at least, is fairly attractive IMO. Way too pricey though, but I guess as the technology improves, and if it becomes more widespread, those prices will come down.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    They can take their biased and slanted magazine to the place where it belongs...the bottom of a bird cage

    So I guess the fact that they slammed the new Prius C and Scion iQ are also signs of bias? ;)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    You're cherry picking again.

    Sienna had the lowest complaint rates in 2001, 2003, 2004, 2005, and 2008. Some of those it ties for the lowest.

    And if we go to your post count method you'll see it's the least problematic by far. There is no active transmissions problems thread.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited September 2012
    GM up 10.1% - 240,520 units total, and 4 models set records:

    2,630 Spark
    25,975 Cruze
    2,831 Volt
    8,703 Sonic

    http://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/news.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/201- - 2/Sep/gmsales.html

    New isn't as good as it seems because the overall market was up 20%, so they actually lost a little share.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    edited September 2012
    You see me as cherry-picking, and I see you and your ilk as cherry picking. Guess we'll never meet halfways on that. Mine is usually done as a defense mechanism to some of the ridiculous things I see on here...although you are far from the worst offender.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    defense mechanism - fair enough, you're right about that. I guess I get caught in the cross fire some times.

    Note that I'm the one sharing sales news, new model announcements, rumors, etc.

    I'm here to talk about the vehicles. I post newsworthy stuff and hardly get any replies, which is a shame.

    One useful thing we can derive from the current argument is imi's "show me the data" argument. If a GM product is so bad, show some evidence that supports the claim and more importantly compares problem rates to other brands.

    I think that's better than "well yours is worse" type arguing.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    That reads almost like they're sorry for being so mean before and they want to make it feel better about sucking so bad. :shades:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Show proof of suckage or it's not true.

    :P

    Here you go, this GM80 vacuum sucks:

    http://www.airfilterstore.com/nilfisk/index.html

    Let's use sources from now on. :D
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Something about a lack of legroom and a short wheelbase? Regardless, that (really short) review didn't actually say much, except that it might be as good as the Altima or Camry, but didn't quite reach the high mark Hyundai and Kia set.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    Do the Altima and Camry suck? Just askin'.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Well, Camry does by virtue of being a Toyota. :shades:

    Altima isn't terrible (those seats are REALLY something) but it just doesn't feel as athletic as previous versions. And they forgot to put a manual mode on the CVT with the 4 cyl, which just isn't right.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    Well, Camry does by virtue of being a Toyota.

    Maybe the Camry doesn't suck, but it does stretch its mouth into a mighty wide yawn!

    As for the Altima, I'm still a bit undecided on it. I liked the previous two generations, but I'm not that crazy about the styling of the latest one. Maybe it'll grow on me though.

    I am liking the new Malibu more and more, though. Even though it has a shorter wheelbase than the '08-12 model, it seems wider, and like it has a beefier, more substantial stance to it. I never would've considered the Eco, but now that the regular 2.5 is out, I might be tempted to go check one out.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Actually, all naturally aspirated engines suck.

    Forced induction engines blow.

    There you have it, folks. :shades:

    Happy to see the base Malibu has direct injection (Camry and Altima lack that).
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    http://www.autoblog.com/2012/09/04/cadillac-xts-lineup-expands-to-livery-limo-an- d-hearse-models/

    air-leveling rear suspension, heated rear seats, and both side and rear window shades. All that, along with a tri-zone climate control unit

    Let's see a comparo with the Town Car, and maybe toss in the Equus for kicks.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    Happy to see the base Malibu has direct injection (Camry and Altima lack that).

    Looks like the Malibu is still a bit behind the Camry and Altima in fuel economy though. It's rated 22/24, whereas the Camry is 25/35 and the Altima is an impressive 27/38.

    But, the Malibu has more hp...197 versus 182 for the Altima and 178 for the Camry. And the Altima is probably helped by the CVT.

    Still, what would most likely happen if they direct-injected the Altima and Camry? Would it boost hp, or fuel economy, or a little of both?
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    The problem around where I live that most affects Suzuki is the transient nature of Suzuki dealerships.

    Here today, shuttered tomorrow.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    I agree. Altima already has impressive mpg stats, so why go more expensive and introduce direct injection now?

    Save it for model "enhancement" in a year or so, so that the Altima appears to continually upgrade. I'll bet we will see DI Altimas before the newly introduced model runs its course.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    Around where I live (Upstate SC), at least up till now, I've seen more Volts than Sparks and Sonics combined.

    I would guesstimate that I see at least 1 Volt a week in parking lots, but other than on the Chevy sales lot, I have yet to see (or at least notice) a Spark.

    Several businesses have banded together and have had a contest (scavenger hunt where the car is in a different location daily, and you have to find the location each day) where the winner gets a lease on a new Sonic, and the car has been everywhere over the last 3 months or so. I don't know if the contest is over yet.

    Cruzes and Malibus are pretty common.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    Looks like the Malibu is still a bit behind the Camry and Altima in fuel economy though. It's rated 22/24, whereas the Camry is 25/35 and the Altima is an impressive 27/38.

    The Malibu is 22/34, of course, not 22/24--honest mistake, but I can just see somebody saying "Aha! The Malibu gets more than ten miles per gallon less than its competition!". :)
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Accord is getting DI and was just rated 27 mpg city, 36 hwy, to toss that hat in the ring.

    The article from Autoblog mentions the trans was tuned for usability and not peak mpg, so it might feel more responsive than the mpg kings.

    Also, they averaged 28mpg with the new 'bu, so they exceeded the EPA combined, meaning real-world mileage could be better than expected.

    We should start seeing comparos for many of these given so many new models are coming out.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    Even I'm disappointed with the rear-seat legroom, although I don't know how it compares with the competition--I'm guessing, not well. I always liked that the previous Malibu had such a long wheelbase..even longer than the Impala's.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    Oops...yeah, that was supposed to be 22/34. I had accidentally typed 22/33, went back to correct, and made it worse! :blush:

    On the subject of the Accord, the 2012 gets 23/34, while the 2008 version was rated 21/31. I've often wondered if Honda actually did anything to improve the car during that time, or if someone just found a way to fudge the statistics?

    I wonder how the 2013 Malibu with the 197 hp 2.5 stacks up in 0-60 compared to the other cars in its class?
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    the previous Malibu had such a long wheelbase..even longer than the Impala's.

    And right there in a nutshell is why they shrunk the new Malibu's wheelbase. The other option would have been to eliminate the Impala and simplify their model lineup. And we've already established GM would rather go bankrupt than shrink.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    Even I'm disappointed with the rear-seat legroom, although I don't know how it compares with the competition--I'm guessing, not well

    Going from memory, here's my experience...
    2012 Malibu: tight, and my knees wouldn't fit in that hollowed out area in the hard plastic in the seatback.
    Fusion: comfortable...my knees didn't touch, but were close
    Camry: similar to the Fusion
    Accord: seemed a bit tighter, and my knees dug into the hard plastic on the seatback. Can't remember if all models had that hard plastic, or just the base model I was in. Slightly better than the Malibu though.
    Altima: my knees didn't touch, but the seat was low, and my head brushed the ceiling. So, despite the decent legroom, I don't think it would have been all that comfy for a long ride.

    Still, my experience is that of putting one 6'3" guy directly behind another. I can't imagine any of these cars being bad at all for more typical-sized passengers.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    It looks like even the new Impala isn't going to be *that* lanky in the wheelbase. Specs I've seen online put it at 111.7", which incidentally is the same as the Buick LaCrosse.

    From what I remember though, the LaCrosse is a pretty roomy car, when it comes to legroom.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    And right there in a nutshell is why they shrunk the new Malibu's wheelbase. The other option would have been to eliminate the Impala and simplify their model lineup. And we've already established GM would rather go bankrupt than shrink.

    Building the previous Malibu for five model years with a longer wheelbase than the Impala didn't seem to hurt sales of the Impala, so not sure what your point is.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Funny thing is those are all big cars, some eek in to full-size category.

    To be honest I think a lot of those sedans are pretty close when it comes to spec sheet, something basic like styling or claimed MPG can indeed make the sale.

    For me the Fusion wins the beauty contest. MPG is close enough for most of them anyway.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Remember the LaCrosse we took out at the GM Carlisle show in 2010? How was the room in the back seat?
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