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GM News, New Models and Market Share

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Comments

  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    Mark this one down. I agree with uplander's last post. The new Malibu does look better than the previous one - especially those tail lights.

    I have no idea why they made it smaller inside.

    And, yes, you can't pump your own gas in NJ either. More than once I've had the bad gas cap message that merely required turning it another click to correct.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    And, New Jersey also requires attended gas pumping, IIRC...

    Given that 48 of 50 states have been allowing self-service for decades, what possible reason could there be for the govt. to interfere and require attendant pumping?
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Reality is reality. GM went bankrupt. You can deny the reasons or merely half-heartedly agree but reality is reality.

    No perception necessary, agree?

    Regards,
    OW
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    They had the "twit filter" on at GM leading up to their bankruptcy! :P

    Regards,
    OW
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    I always thought the rear-end was a bit of a weak point for the 2008-2012 Malibu. It just had sort of an unfinished look to me, like the stylists ran out of ideas on what to do.

    As for why the new one is smaller inside, mainly it's because they switched it over to the same platform as the Regal. The previous one had been on the 112.3" wheelbase that dated back to the 2004 Pontiac G6 and the Malibu Maxx, and the Saturn Aura. The '04-07 Malibu sedan was on that same platform, but on a shorter 106" wb.

    If it's any consolation, I think the 2013 Malibu is wider inside, at least. That was always a shortcoming of the previous model, IMO at least. I think the latest Malibu finally has as much shoulder room as most of its competition. But, moving to the Regal body, it gave up a couple inches of legroom in back.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    True, but I'd buy a car I'd like no matter how the parent company is doing. I love Studebakers, and would've bought one in the early to mid '60's if I was of buying age then, and at that time the rumor had been going for ten years that they were on their way out of business.

    I just tend to hate convention in anything. With a couple exceptions, I almost can't stand '57 Chevys or early Mustangs...just way too middle-of-the-road mainstream.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    Other than a Camaro is in the race, this has little to do with GM.

    Still, car buffs will find it 4 minutes of entertainment.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaS7n6qKQe4&feature=youtube_gdata_player
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    I was never a big 57 Chevy fan either. The car looked obsolete when it came out compared to the newly styled Ford and Plymouth. I think the Chevy became popular though because it was well built and a good used car value, so many people in our age group had them when they were young bringing back memories and nostalgia.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited September 2012
    I learned to drive stick on a friend's '57 Chevy (3 on a tree) in '67 or so. Didn't like it and still don't like them. My mom's GMC pickup was way more fun to drive although the rear end was skittish on the gravel roads in the countryside where I grew up.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    The more recent Malibu's are decent cars, but I think they are also-rans in the midsize market. Your version is too narrow with a mediocre 4 banger. The new one is wider, but lacking interior dimensions (unfortunately, I think GM did this to map out space for the Impala). I'm afraid Chevy is going to have to heavily discount (and/or fleet sell) it if they want any decent volume when you look at vehicles like the new Altima, Camry, Accord and Fusion. The upcoming Impala looks nice, but look at the Taurus - it's just not that big of a vehicle segment, so I think GM stepped on it with this decision to limit the Malibu interior and trunk dimensions.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Another thing I dislike on the 57 Chevy is that I think it has a rather chintzy looking dashboard. But I think given that is was rather lightweight and easily modified made it a popular used car for us when we were youngin's (although I never personally owned one, I did have some friends that drove them). Bet yours probably didn't have power steering or brakes either!
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    edited September 2012
    You know, maybe (and I realize GM execs will be fitting me for a straitjacket as I type) Chevrolet doesn't actually NEED both a Malibu and an Impala, especially when they also have the SS (Civilian Caprice PPV) about to hit the same segment.

    They should have just let the Impala die off.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Seems like Ford and GM always have to match each other in segments. You make a good point. While the Impala generates a better image to me, despite the last few iterations, the Malibu name probably strikes a better image with younger drivers. Whichever, I think they shouldn't have shrunk the Malibu and instead put some of the upcoming Impala design cues into it. One thing I will say is that GM seems to have really improved many of its seats. That's an area where I think Toyota consistently comes up short (literally and figuratively!).
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    My dad's '53 Buick was more fun to drive than my friend's '57 Chevy too, but it was gone from the family stable by the time I got my license (I drove it quite a bit when I was 13 and 14 though). Don't remember the dashboard but I do remember that the AM radio worked.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    Your version is too narrow with a mediocre 4 banger.

    When we bought this car, I would just look at it in the garage...I do it less over a year later, but I think it is just beautiful and elegant for a $19K purchase price. And Andre disagrees (he's a tall guy), but I think the rear seat legroom is excellent. Width doesn't bother me much since we put four people in it, not five (or six, of course). Legroom means more to me than shoulder room.

    That 112-plus inch wheelbase is inches longer than other cars that were marketed against it.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    I think the Chevy became popular though because it was well built and a good used car value, so many people in our age group had them when they were young bringing back memories and nostalgia.

    I believe you've hit it on the head here, and a friend who worked on cars in the early to late '60's came to the same conclusion. They held up better than Fords or Plymouths of the same year, so there were a lot in the used car pool when people were buying cheap used cars into the '60's. As most people know, Ford actually outsold Chevrolet in the '57 model year.

    I too dislike the dash. I much-prefer the '55 and '56 dash that had a passing resemblance to the Corvette dash of the same years.

    I do like the Dusk Pearl color that year, and I could handle a Nomad. I also like that the One-Fifty model doesn't have that fanned-out trim on the rear quarter, just a straight trim piece. But overall, I'd much-prefer a '55 and even a '56.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    I don't know which engine you have, but I've had rentals with both and the 6 is a much better driver to me (similar to the current Fusion before this upcoming one). The difference between 4 and 6 cylinder engines doesn't seem as different to me in some of the Asians models. I expect the new 2.5L will improve this, but haven't driven anything with it in it yet. I think the front seats in your car are very comfortable even on long trips. Much nicer than the Camry in that regard.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Yeah, but Ford didn't shrink the Fusion to make room for the Taurus. In fact, the two are pretty close in actual size, the idea behind the Taurus is not so much a bigger car as a higher end car.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Yeah, I'd go with the 55. I've never really made my mind up on the 58's. I like some of them like the Impala and the wagons, but I'm not as keen on the Bel Air and Biscayne models (and forget that stripped Delray unless you're racing). But then again, I was fond of the 59 (and liked some of Exner's post 59 Mopars as well), so I'm sure some will wonder about my taste and sanity!
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    Personally, the Fusion being built in Mexico is a huge turnoff for me, although I know the new Fusion will eventually be built in Michigan. The Taurus--I just don't like it, period. I did when it first came out, but I think it looks 'clunky' and chunky now, and as has been well-discussed previously, think that center console is way too wide.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Personally, I think Ford screwed up using that Volvo chassis. It's space inefficient and really not that impressive to me. But then it seems to me that most Ford's (and Lincoln's) aren't really designed for tall people anyway.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    The 57 Chevy had cheap interior and hard materials, using the usual current criteria for rating. Styling wise it seemed lost between the 56 and 58 version. I like most of the 58 versions a lot. But then looking at the 59..., how did that come out of the 57 legacy?

    Is it possible the 58 and 59 should have been reversed? Look at the sequence 55, 56, 58, 57, 59, 60... The progression makes more sense that way. Not necessarily good styling by today's standards, but it looks like a progression.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    When we bought this car, I would just look at it in the garage...I do it less over a year later, but I think it is just beautiful and elegant for a $19K purchase price.

    I tend to agree. I've always felt your vintage Malibu is a pretty nice looking car, but that tail just doesn't *quite* do it.... I sort of feel if they had just made a few changes back there then the car could have gone from handsome enough to gorgeous.

    I honestly don't remember seeing a newer Malibu on the road here in SoCal yet, so I can't comment on the new style. From the pictures I saw I wasn't feelin' it - but real life is often a different perception.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    I think in some ways, the '57 Ford and Plymouth were victims of their own success. They had an impressive, big-car look to them, while the '57 Chevy, being more upright and stubby, seemed more midsized in comparison. In reality, I don't think there was a huge difference in length though. I think Chevy puffed the '57 out to around 200 inches, while a Plymouth was around 205".

    But, I think the '57 Ford and Plymouth, which were then joined with the '58 Chevy, were associated as the cars your parents bought, and when they became used cars, that made them sort of un-cool.

    Plus, high fashion usually becomes obsolete, whereas more conservative styles tend to wear better. By 1965, nobody really wanted those cars with their monstrous tailfins. My Mom's first car was a '57 Plymouth, purchased for about $75 in 1965, and she hated it! I used to work with a guy whose first car was a pink and white 1957 DeSoto Fireflite 4-door hardtop. He bought it in 1965 for about $500. It was considered sort of an old-man's car, and had a loser stigma attached to it because the brand was defunct. But, he did get a kick out of the fact that the 295 hp 341-4bbl Hemi in that loser car could embarrass plenty of hipper, more swinging, cooler cars when it came to a drag race!
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    The 57 Chevy had cheap interior and hard materials, using the usual current criteria for rating.

    Compare it to an equivalent '57 Ford or Plymouth though, and I think the Chevy interior was actually pretty nice.

    I think the '59 Chevy is actually more modern looking than the '58, so there is definitely a progression there. But, GM was still reacting to Mopar by that time, and not in the most tasteful way. Still, strip off some of that excess crap, and the '59 Chevy morphs quite well into the tasteful 1960-64 models. the '58 Chevy was more rounded, still stuck in the 50's, whereas the '59 seems like a 60's car waiting to be born.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Another reason you didn't see those many used 57/58 Fords and Plymouth's may have been because they were major rust buckets. I still like their looks though.

    I agree that the 58 GM cars looked kind of old. They were really the end of the Harley Earl years. There seems to be contradictory stuff on Earl's involvement in the 59's. It appears that some of it was actually started behind his back and that it was the beginning of the coronation into the Bill Mitchell years. Harley Earl had finally been trumped. Many of the early and mid 60's GM cars during Bill Mitchell's heyday still look great today. There was some truly classic design during that era. Honestly, I think with a little wind tunnel fine tuning some of it could be successfully done in today's models.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Heck, I probably would've bought a new 1956 Packard Carribean or Patrician if I was around at the time. I'd want a shot at owning one of the last real Packards.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,928
    I remember when I was a little kid gas station in my area of CA would have one side be full service and the other self service. Full service was more expensive.

    Seems the main reason Oregon and New Jersey do what they do is that they are resistant to change and have a bad habit.

    I bet you if they offered both (and appropriately charged more for full service) it wouldn't be long until all the stalls were Self-Service.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    Heck, I probably would've bought a new 1956 Packard Carribean or Patrician if I was around at the time. I'd want a shot at owning one of the last real Packards.

    The Torsion-Level suspension in those cars provided a ride that no one else could compete with. A friend whose Dad was a Studebaker-Packard dealer at the time had a 'rough road' coarse mapped out to take folks for test drives, to drive home that point.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    edited September 2012
    "Government Motors shakes up full-size truck program."

    GMI has confirmed with several sources—both external and internal at GM—that the hybrid program surrounding the full-size trucks and SUVs has been shutdown. It is unusual for GM to cancel programs that are so close to launch, but many insiders GMI has spoken with are not terribly surprised by the move.

    Will be interesting to see what they'll do to compete with the EcoBoost Fords and the rumored 2013 RAM's. There is also a new Tundra program in the works and Nissan claims to be going more diverse with the next Titan lineup.

    IMO, as long as the gas prices don't scream out of control again, and there continues to be improvements in the housing market, the full size truck battle looks to be one to watch. :D
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Will be interesting to see what they'll do to compete with the EcoBoost Fords and the rumored 2013 RAM's.

    No it won't. What else are they going to do? Americans don't buy diesels. Bring on the 10 MPG V10s! :shades:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Interesting link, but check out the numbers - even in the worst year we're talking about 0.24% of Ody transmissions went bad.

    They sold tons of those vans so yes we hear lots of stories, but that's far from a high failure rate, folks.

    Even if they are 1000% under-reported we're still talking about a failure rate of 2.4%.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    When there are over 2,000 posts about Odyssey transmissions

    Out of 48533 total posts in Ody threads, so they spend about 4% of their time singing the tranny blues.

    Did you notice Dodge's has 2056 posts?

    http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.ee93e7a/0#MSG0

    2056 out of 11071 total posts, so they spend 19% of their their time singing the blues.

    At least I like blues. :shades:
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    edited September 2012
    >even in the worst year we're talking about 0.24% of Ody transmissions went bad. They sold tons of those vans so yes we hear lots of stories, but that's far from a high failure rate, folks. Even if they are 1000% under-reported we're still talking about a failure rate of 2.4%.

    We need to apply these same analyses and requirements before condemning GM on problematic vehicles. :P

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    honestly, yourself, believe that data more than a forum with thousands of posts?

    I wonder if Edmunds has a way to count unique members posting in a given thread. How do we know it's not one Buick owner posting again and again 78 times?

    FWIW I read the threads for all the cars I own and respond even though I don't have a problem. Nothing wrong with trying to help folks out.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    We need to apply these same analyses and requirements before condemning GM on problematic vehicles

    YES we should, no joke.

    If that's all Edmunds members talk about in a given model's threads, you can be pretty sure that issue is common.

    The lack of such evidence ought to make us suspicious when a fanboy/hater/whatever makes a claim that something is garbage as well. If there isn't even an active thread on for Part X on Model Y then what is all the fuss about?
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    edited September 2012
    Depending on one's POV, the results can mean very different things, I guess.

    On one hand, in the early 2000's, there isn't any escaping the reality that Honda transmissions were indeed failing at a much higher rate than that of the competition, or it's own past year MY 2004.

    On the flip side, it's not like one could expect his Odyssey to fail before he drove it off the new car lot, either.

    In general, my POV may be a bit different from others, in that unless manufacturers didn't take some chances with new technology, we would still be dimming headlights with a floor mounted switch, driving a 2-speed automatic (or 3-on-the-tree), listening to tube-type AM radios and no A/C.

    As in everything, there's a learning curve, even with the best testing and R & D.

    In these cases... What separates the manufacturers is how they approach customers when things don't succeed quite as expected.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    Actually, Odyssey has 2,283 trans posts--80 more since the last time I looked.

    Hasn't Dodge outsold Odyssey for many of the years they've both been out? And of course, there've been Dodge vans since '84. When was the first Odyssey?
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    The obvious problem with simple "post counting" is that there is absolutely no way to quantify unique posters (many repeatedly posts on the same issue-problem), and even though a thread may be dedicated to a specific issue, it can contain practically any comment on anything. Just go back and count the last 100 posts here. See how many different posters were active (the number is significantly less than 100), and many, MANY of the posts have little to nothing to do with the thread topic.

    Try it on any individual thread and you will get similar results.

    Simply counting posting numbers is just a "measuring" contest that signifies nothing.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited September 2012
    I think it is just beautiful and elegant for a $19K purchase price

    Not just you, I mean, for $19k?

    A loaded Fit or Sonic would cost that much. $19k usually buys you the type of car that you apologize for. Sorry, I left my real car at home...

    That's an amazing value without a doubt. I'm not sure GM can sustain profits at that price, but you're the buyer so that's a great deal.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I think it's good that GM gave up on mild hybrids. Let's be real - nobody's buying them.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Failure rates were higher until 2003 or so, that's a fair conclusion.

    They took a nose dive after 2003, though, and a lot of Honda Haters insist the problem is just as bad now. The data contradicts that pretty convincingly.

    If we accept that data at face value, then the Ody hasn't been any worse than competitors for nearly a decade or more, so it's fair to say the trans issue is behind them.

    We shouldn't cherry pick information.

    It was bad. It is not bad any more.

    Would be nice to have more charts like that, actually. The catch is complaints spike when bad news hits headlines, and that can skew complaint data.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    In that case it's 4.7% of total posts on the Ody. Not exactly dominating Ody boards, is it?

    I compared total posts so that's fair and levels out sales. If there are 10 times as many Dodge owners among Edmunds members then there would be 10 times as many posts overall.

    In recent years the Ody, Sienna, and GC have been neck-and-neck in sales. Toyota won last year, but Honda was winning last time I looked.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    Even if you look at the graph for only people who complained to NHTSA (!), the number is higher (OK, slightly) for Odysseys in 2005 than other makes. But...wait...it's a Honda!
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    If there are 10 times as many Dodge owners among Edmunds members then there would be 10 times as many posts overall.

    No disrespect intended, but you simply cannot make that flat statement. Think back to your Statistics class.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    edited September 2012
    My Malibu stickered at $24-odd; I got it at invoice, then it had a $3K rebate, and I had $1,500 in GM card rebate money (free money).

    I really don't care that I didn't pay enough for the car (LOL)--I think it was an excellent value. I paid cash and I never buy any add-ons or an extended warranty--and I mean never.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    You're seeing the glass half full because you hate Honda fanboys and that has made you biased.

    The rate in 2005 was not significantly higher than the rest.

    In 2006 they had the lowest complaint rate yet you don't mention that at all. That's also the same year they added some cooling enhancements to their transmission, which trickled down from their Ridgeline.

    NHTSA data seem to prove those worked.

    No fair cherry picking one case, either, which (predictably) will be your next step. :P
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited September 2012
    No need to review my Statistics notes ... in Dodge threads it's all they talk about.

    That's simply not the case in Ody threads.

    You don't need a calculator to see that.

    Let it go - 2006+ Odys are no worse than other best selling vans.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    The whole conversation started because I know one person with an Odyssey, and it was an '05 model that needed a complete transmission at 70K miles.

    Cherry-picking on this forum is legendary. I usually need to point it out.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
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